Scoupratives healers aren't OP

[axka]

Scoundrel and Op healers aren't overpowred. Not at all. The fact is just, most of them are experienced players. Very few chose to play Operative or Scoundrel as their first class since Gunslinger and Sniper looks more ******. Not even their 2nd which is either a commando or mercenary. The path of Scoundrel or Operative is a path you chose when you're looking to advance your skill to the next level.

 

Scoundrel and Operatives have an incredibly high skill cap unlike these silly Jedi and Sith classes. There are several ways to play an Scouprative. But it ain't easy. Most of the people sitting on the forums saying they're OP are still probably playing their jedis and siths trying to catch that little Scouprative as they kite you like an idiot.

 

A healers job isn't just to heal himself. If you know how to play basic PvP, you will find that spreading the damage will put more pressure on the healer. You're not supposed to kill them 1v1.

 

So they're OP because you can't kill them? Then don't.... CC, Taunt them away, spread the damage. Plenty of things you can do. Because the people who play them aren't idiots (in most cases..). Even if you're 3 on 1 you shouldn't be able to kill the healer if the healer knows what he's doing.

 

"Kill the healer" is old school. It's the oldest trick in the book and was outdated a long time ago. Think outside that narrowminded, tunnelvision box. Spread the damage. CC, target switch, communicate. If you channel on 1 target it's way to easy to heal. Scoupratives are mobile, so stop running after them. Switch target instead = win.

 

K thx

[blooddodo]

I find that three people can, in fact, burn down an op healer, provided he has nobody else healing him.

The issue is not killing them, it their HPS output while kiting, and that is better by too large a margin compared to the other two healer ACs.

[Sziroten]

Scoundrel and Op healers aren't overpowred. Not at all. The fact is just, most of them are experienced players. Very few chose to play Operative or Scoundrel as their first class since Gunslinger and Sniper looks more ******. Not even their 2nd which is either a commando or mercenary. The path of Scoundrel or Operative is a path you chose when you're looking to advance your skill to the next level.

 

Scoundrel and Operatives have an incredibly high skill cap unlike these silly Jedi and Sith classes. There are several ways to play an Scouprative. But it ain't easy. Most of the people sitting on the forums saying they're OP are still probably playing their jedis and siths trying to catch that little Scouprative as they kite you like an idiot.

 

A healers job isn't just to heal himself. If you know how to play basic PvP, you will find that spreading the damage will put more pressure on the healer. You're not supposed to kill them 1v1.

 

So they're OP because you can't kill them? Then don't.... CC, Taunt them away, spread the damage. Plenty of things you can do. Because the people who play them aren't idiots (in most cases..). Even if you're 3 on 1 you shouldn't be able to kill the healer if the healer knows what he's doing.

 

"Kill the healer" is old school. It's the oldest trick in the book and was outdated a long time ago. Think outside that narrowminded, tunnelvision box. Spread the damage. CC, target switch, communicate. If you channel on 1 target it's way to easy to heal. Scoupratives are mobile, so stop running after them. Switch target instead = win.

 

K thx

 

So in a scenario with 2 healer.... the solution is to focus down dd's and tanks rather than going after the healer though you should cc/ interrupt them in the same time? That does work out really well..... just not for your team. How are you "taunting" them away... as taunt reduces the damage (at least following the tool tip), not the healing output.

 

I'm kinda baffled as to how you came to the conclusion that the skill cap is "on the next level" for operatives.... they are easy to play, especially if not focused.

 

The obvious reason why operatives are being called out is that they have more tools than other healer and are therefor harder to kill while being able to heal at least as much as a sorcerer heal and certainly more than a mercenary heal.

 

= more tools, same or more heal... = forum qq

 

Anyhow I call this a troll attempt....

spreading damage

is an auto-win if you don't have any healer on your side. Edited June 27, 2013 by Sziroten

[maverickmatt]

Scoundrel and Op healers aren't overpowred.

*snip*

Even if you're 3 on 1 you shouldn't be able to kill the healer if the healer knows what he's doing.

 

"Kill the healer" is old school. It's the oldest trick in the book and was outdated a long time ago. Think outside that narrowminded, tunnelvision box. Spread the damage. CC, target switch, communicate. If you channel on 1 target it's way to easy to heal. Scoupratives are mobile, so stop running after them. Switch target instead = win.

 

K thx

 

Is he/she serious? 3 on 1 in a Warzone comprised of 8-man teams?

 

So essentially what he/she is saying is that it should take no less than half of your team to kill an Op healer.

 

Sounds OP to me......

[Brunner_Venda]

Good God .

 

You know the operative healers can SMELL the *********** nerf bat coming when they resort to posts like this.

 

We all know why. Smarter people have posted the numbers. Most everyone except for Operatives agrees:

Healing output is too high. Like off the charts high.

Energy management needs adjustment.

Scamper. Enough said.

 

PS: Had another void star stale-mate tonight at the first damn door. Both sides had two unkillable operative healers. Managed 600K damage, 0 deaths, and 2 kills, nobody did more than that. That's *********** ridiculous, but of course someone will come in here and say 'derp derp you only want play lol Xbox call of duty so you can kill people derp derp derp!' To that I say 'yes'. That's the point of *********** PVP. To kill more than two people. To get them off the damn door so I can plant.

[Cretinus]

Scoundrel and Op healers aren't overpowred. Not at all. The fact is just, most of them are experienced players. Very few chose to play Operative or Scoundrel as their first class since Gunslinger and Sniper looks more ******. Not even their 2nd which is either a commando or mercenary. The path of Scoundrel or Operative is a path you chose when you're looking to advance your skill to the next level.

 

Scoundrel and Operatives have an incredibly high skill cap unlike these silly Jedi and Sith classes. There are several ways to play an Scouprative. But it ain't easy. Most of the people sitting on the forums saying they're OP are still probably playing their jedis and siths trying to catch that little Scouprative as they kite you like an idiot.

 

A healers job isn't just to heal himself. If you know how to play basic PvP, you will find that spreading the damage will put more pressure on the healer. You're not supposed to kill them 1v1.

 

So they're OP because you can't kill them? Then don't.... CC, Taunt them away, spread the damage. Plenty of things you can do. Because the people who play them aren't idiots (in most cases..). Even if you're 3 on 1 you shouldn't be able to kill the healer if the healer knows what he's doing.

 

"Kill the healer" is old school. It's the oldest trick in the book and was outdated a long time ago. Think outside that narrowminded, tunnelvision box. Spread the damage. CC, target switch, communicate. If you channel on 1 target it's way to easy to heal. Scoupratives are mobile, so stop running after them. Switch target instead = win.

 

K thx

 

Yeah, sure. And as a side effect, this would promote you from an average player on a freak class to a great player on a balanced class. What a coincidence.

 

Your assumption equals to sc/op-healer being played exclusively by good players and all other classes being played exclusively by bad players.

How likely is this? Ever heard of Occam's razor? If it's dark outside, it's probably night time and not a solar eclipse.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Cretinus

[TheronFett]

BS

 

The age-old argument from the healer's perspective has always been that 1v1 healer vs DPS should be a wash. All other things being equal, no single DPS should be able to solo a healer. Okay, fine. Anyone with half a sense of game balance can agree with that.

 

So 2 DPS vs a healer, the healer should lose...50% of the time? 75%? No, not against an Operative/Scoundrel. It's more like 25%, unless the healer is bad. Very bad. 3 DPS vs a healer should be a no-brainer then. A healer should practically melt under that much pressure. Yeah, not so much.

 

The healing bonus from Expertise needs about a 10% nerf. About 25% for Operative/Scoundrel.

[Glower]

Sure!

And smash is not the best AOE in this game.

[NoTomorrow]

As I said in another thread:

 

Right now, it takes more effort to write a "please don't nerf operative healers" thread than to play one in PvP

You are simply running out of arguments how to say that operatives don't need adjustments. The class WILL BE adjusted. It's only a matter of time before it will be brought in line at least to the level of performance of SWTOR 1.7

Edited June 27, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Dawncatcher]

BS

 

The age-old argument from the healer's perspective has always been that 1v1 healer vs DPS should be a wash. All other things being equal, no single DPS should be able to solo a healer. Okay, fine. Anyone with half a sense of game balance can agree with that.

 

So 2 DPS vs a healer, the healer should lose...50% of the time? 75%? No, not against an Operative/Scoundrel. It's more like 25%, unless the healer is bad. Very bad. 3 DPS vs a healer should be a no-brainer then. A healer should practically melt under that much pressure. Yeah, not so much.

 

The healing bonus from Expertise needs about a 10% nerf. About 25% for Operative/Scoundrel.

 

It's a rock-paper-scissors thing. A good concealment operative can tear a good sawbones scoundrel to shreds before the stun ever ends (if the scoundrel is not receiving guard or heals or other protection from teammates... if they are, obviously, it is not a 1v1). Yes, I could try my cc-break, but given that's a 2-minute cooldown, I generally just eat the death unless an objective is being imminently threatened. Especially since it's often pointless if your resolve bar isn't full yet. Also, some of the less common specs for other classes can do surprisingly well in specific situations, like taking out healers.

 

Another thing to point out is, even if your class / spec / playstyle can't solo kill a good healing scoundrel / operative, they can't kill you either unless they stop healing for a moment. Every heal eats up a global cooldown. If they try to kill you, or even damage you a little, they're nerfing their healing. If they just run around healing themselves, you are in absolutely no danger of dying, at least not from them. And if they do try to do both damage and healing, heals per second goes down, making them easier to kill, plus their damage isn't that great, and even if they're heals aren't running them out of energy, their unspecced damage can. Not saying they can't kill you, especially if they outkite you, but it's not as if they can do tremendous healing and great damage *at the same time*.

 

And not all damage is equal. Some people are putting out 9k hits while others barely tickle. And I'm sorry, but the game should not be balanced so that the latter can take out healers without serious coordination. That would be like saying a scoundrel healer who didn't even know he had instants should be able to heal a whole raid while just spamming his 3 activation/channeled heals while buried deep into enemy lines without using any cooldowns. Gear up, min/max, augment, use stims, experiment with different specs, learn how to use the right skills at the right time. Just because you can't solo a decent scoundrel doesn't mean other people can't.

[SajPl]

As I said in another thread:

 

Right now, it takes more effort to write a "please don't nerf operative healers" thread than to play one in PvP

You are simply running out of arguments how to say that operatives don't need adjustments. The class WILL BE adjusted. It's only a matter of time before it will be brought in line at least to the level of performance of SWTOR 1.7

 

As soon as they adjust explosice probe+ambush+takedown 3 shot kill )so much skill required) combo I agree.

[Atramar]

healers aren't op. dps are being stupid.

 

/thread

[DharmaPolice]

I'm not really sure why so many people are replying to this thread seriously, I read the opening post as a joke.

[Pyrinoos]

As someone mentioned it's a rock, paper, scissors design. Some specs should do better against an operative healer than some other specs. So with that in mind before nerfing op healing, I would work to fix sorc/sin madness which imo is the clearest example of a counter to op heals. Their dots cannot be cleansed by ops except with evasion every 45 secs or so and the roots slow down the kiting, and the dots themselves work to prevent cloaking out to escape. Problem is right now, sin/sorc madness dps is horrible.

[Cretinus]

As someone mentioned it's a rock, paper, scissors design. Some specs should do better against an operative healer than some other specs. So with that in mind before nerfing op healing, I would work to fix sorc/sin madness which imo is the clearest example of a counter to op heals. Their dots cannot be cleansed by ops except with evasion every 45 secs or so and the roots slow down the kiting, and the dots themselves work to prevent cloaking out to escape. Problem is right now, sin/sorc madness dps is horrible.

 

What we have now is a freak class within an otherwise balanced system. You don't fix this by producing another freak class, cause if you do, you'll end up with two freak classes in an otherwise balanced system. You fix it by adapting the freak class to the balanced system.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Cretinus

[Dawncatcher]

As someone mentioned it's a rock, paper, scissors design. Some specs should do better against an operative healer than some other specs. So with that in mind before nerfing op healing, I would work to fix sorc/sin madness which imo is the clearest example of a counter to op heals. Their dots cannot be cleansed by ops except with evasion every 45 secs or so and the roots slow down the kiting, and the dots themselves work to prevent cloaking out to escape. Problem is right now, sin/sorc madness dps is horrible.

 

Yes, exactly. Everyone has to make compromises in their build. To be better at one thing you have to be worse at another. Weird builds actually do work, for certain things, which is one of the joys of PvP. Everyone tells you your spec/build is weird/bad, and then you go and do something they all say is impossible, and cackle, mwhahahahaha!

[Skylancewalker]

Aww is the OP an operative and don't want to see easymode go away ...Its funny when I see Sage healers from previous 2.0 go to an operative healer after because they all say it is even more OP than their sage bubble stuns. Nice try though trying to save your class.

[Cretinus]

healers aren't op. dps are being stupid.

 

/thread

 

From all usual arguments against incoming nerfs, this one must be the most pathetic of all.

 

It amounts to stating that as a pure coincidence, the community has spontaneously split itself into two groups. A first group consists exclusively of skilled players who all play the class to be nerfed. A second group consists exclusively of bad players who all play something other than the class to be nerfed.

Consequently, whenever the class to be nerfed fights against another class, it's inevitably a great pro skillor fighting a badie and that's the reason why the class to be nerfed always wins.

 

This is as likely as a coincidence that the fish in the seas appear organized in a row according to the alphabetical order of their zoological names.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Cretinus

[Atramar]

if my assassin can down a scoundrel healer on 1 vs 1, and next WZ I can kite sentinel and shadow on my operative healer, does it mean scoundrels, shadows and sentinels should be buffed and assassin and operative healer nerfed?

 

empire is so over powered

if a person complains that he and 2 other dps can't down a healer who is standing still, where do you think the problem is?

[AngusFTW]

Not that much trouble dealing with them on sent/mara unless i'm watchman/anni. They're easiest to deal with as carnage/combat, can be slightly annoying as smash since they can kite those quite well but overall i don't think they're as op as people think sometimes i think people see the numbers (quite alot can come from spamming the HOT on everyone, player dependent ofc) and think zomg op.. Deception and concealment would be a right pain for them as well. The instant heals they have are easily outbursted...

I can really put a great deal of pressure on them on sorc/sage as well especially with the heavy madness/balance hybrid since lol they can't cleanse.

I haven't played much scoundrel healing since 2.0 broke but i always prefered my sorc/sage for kiting people over op/scoundrel anyways.. maybe i'm just weird..

Edited June 27, 2013 by AngusFTW

[MidichIorian]

It's funny how the DD'es only are stupid when they're attacking OP healers. You don't see thread after thread on the topic of "commandos/sages being OP".

 

I think I might have found a glitch in the system.

[Zunayson]

1. NOBODY at all rolled a sniper at launch. Okay, a few people did, including myself. And they were always thought of as an easy kill until 1.2 or something when everybody started rolling one.

 

2. Way more scoupratives than slipers at launch because of mobility, stealth, and heals. Especially after the burst fiasco of launch, causing everybody (including myself ) to reroll operative. I leveld as heals though... don't remember why...

 

3. Healing was thought of as weak due to lack of AoE, bad resource management, plus people were whining about how bad DPS was.

 

4. Other heals were nerfed in their resource management, causing operative to be "the only viable one" for healing. Then people whine about anything they can. It's funny because no buffs were ever given to the <30% heal ever since launch... people didn't complain at launch because few played a scouprative, and now that everyone rerolled, people are just looking for something to whine about.

 

5. Scoupratives do take a lot of skill to be good, I agree. That's why I started playing my sniper more.

 

6. As for DPSing multiple targets, I find it easy to kill scouprative healers, you just need to be geared enough to hit them for hard amounts. They cannot heal through any meaningful damage without their main heal, so just interrupt that...

Edited June 27, 2013 by Zunayson

[TheronFett]

Rock smashes scissors. Scissors cuts paper. Paper covers rock. Yeah, we get it. Game balance isn't created in 1v1 scenarios, but that's kind of the point here.

 

Civil War/Novarre Coast:

Team A caps their node, Team B caps theirs. Mid is contested for 3/4 of the match because it's matter of who brought more healers. Millions in DPS, millions in healing, few deaths.

 

Voidstar:

Again, which team brought more healers? Can you make it past the first door or not? If you do, which team has more Operatives who can roll their way to the next door to cap it before anyone else even has a chance to get close.

 

Huttball:

Sorc pull? Jugg tank leapers? Pffft...that's so 1.7. Operative rolls to the ball, rolls to endzone ftw. And don't give me the BS about running out of energy. We've all seen them do it.

 

Ancient Hypergates:

Wanna prevent the other team from activating their pylon? Send an Operative healer and a tank. They can keep 6 people at bay for the entire round.

 

Point being, it's not a matter of balance anymore. It's a matter of how many rocks you bring. Yes, some classes have burst, others sustained damage/healing. Some classes have utility, others survivability. But when one class has it all, there's a problem. Play a match against 4 smashers and 4 Agent/Smuggler healers and you'll find out how truly unbalanced this game is.

Edited June 27, 2013 by TheronFett

[thefallacy]

As a Scoundrel healer since launch, I'll admit I'm probably very annoying to kill sometimes. But so are the other healers when they play in premade/good groups. With the taunts(even from the dps specs), other heals/offheals, communication, guards(!), and smart play it can feel like you'd never get me down. But even with all of those things going in my favor I'll still go down to a properly timed/coordinated attack... maybe not the first time but dps cooldowns are way shorter than my Dodge right?

 

I sometimes feel like the only classes complaining that they can't kill Operatives/Scoundrels are those that try to solo kill everyone. And if they are good they probably do most of the time... but unless you guys learn to interrupt and stun appropriately and/or focus the healer at the right moment then it will SEEM like I'm impossible to kill but that is true for the other healing classes as well.

 

Oh and in case people want to say that a healer's Scamper is OP then I would like to introduce you to the stun, root, pull, slow, and leap abilities on your quickbars. It's about time that you adapt to the new Scoundrel instead of complaining about it... just saying. Of course you guys could always just ignore all that and let me heal in peace

[szczypaczek]

What we have now is a freak class within an otherwise balanced system. You don't fix this by producing another freak class, cause if you do, you'll end up with two freak classes in an otherwise balanced system. You fix it by adapting the freak class to the balanced system.

 

how about 3 smashers vaporizing everyting on sight in your perfectly balanced system? xD