ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Draqsko]

With regards to this thread all I'd be asking for is AC swap functionality. If I was to expand on that it would not be the Discipline system but the Advanced Classes. I appreciate it is unlikely that true Classes will not be introduced to the game, unless they go the Deathknight route and have them start at a higher level (such as 60 and straight into KotFE).

On the other hand there seems to be plenty of scope to repurpose existing animations and weapon combinations to introduce some additional AC types to the fold.

A long time ago I suggested this would be a good way to open up all the roles to all the classes.

I'd really like a non-force melee weapon AC for my Bounty Hunter, you know so they can do Mandalorian things.

Or how about force lightning animations/ pebbles for Consular/ Inquisitor.

Or a tank spec for Imperial Agent/ Smuggler.

All of the above could be achieved through an additional AC per Class and make AC swapping a viable option.

 

 

In SWTOR terms,

A Discipline change is just changing ability mechanics. (Shieldtech <-> Pyrotech<->Advanced Prototype)

An Advanced Class change is just changing ability mechanics. (Powertech <-> Mercenary)

A Class change is something that dramatically alters the theme of the character and missions available to them. (Powertech <-> Sith Warrior)

 

In WOW terms,

A Spec change is just changing ability mechanics. (Protection<->Retribution<->Holy)

A Class change is something that dramatically alters the theme of the character and missions available to them. (Paladin <-> Warlock)

 

I'm not sure how WoW handles things now but back in the day I played (about 6 years ago, around the time of Burning Crusade) you had Class specific quests. Not as core to the game as the Class stories of SWTOR but they were there.

 

I can't mind read so I have no idea what devs think when they read threads like these, if they do I suspect it's more along the lines of some devs agree and some disagree.

 

You are failing to understand that MECHANICALLY speaking, the Advanced Class in SWTOR is equivalent to a Class in WoW or any other MMO.

 

I can't mind read either, but their design decisions have taken the ACs further away from each other, not brought them together. They even went with making the disciplines change names on their shared skill trees (Balance Shadow is now Serenity), as well as changing utilities and shared abilities to be more specific to that discipline alone. Their entire design direction has been to separate the ACs into their own distinct entities and play styles, and the only thing that will be swappable is disciplines within an AC.

 

That's a pretty good indication of how the developers feel about allowing Advanced Class change, since they've initially said No, a long time ago. Everything that has been changed has reinforced that AC swapping is not on their minds, and there is nothing to indicate otherwise in what they have produced in their game. You had more of a case for AC swap before 3.0 further separated the ACs.

[LordArtemis]

Again, I still think this is an idea whos time has come. The choice barely means anything any longer. it is time to allow folks to change their AC, perhaps at max level, or past level 55 when the storyline is concluded.

[Kingsbount]

Again, I still think this is an idea whos time has come. The choice barely means anything any longer. it is time to allow folks to change their AC, perhaps at max level, or past level 55 when the storyline is concluded.

 

Oh YEAH!!!!!

AC change will bring SO MUCH NEW GAMEPLAY!!!! WOW!!!! HOORAAAAY!!!!! This is REALLY the thing game needs!!! 100%!!!!!

 

On the other hand...

 

No. It's not. Game needs NEW CLASSES.

Who cares about change your 2-gun twilek into... 1-gun twilek... ????

 

Do you really think that game NEED this?

 

Game needs Content. NEW content. New classes. New POWERS. Not old reskinned/rebalanced sh**.

[LordArtemis]

Oh YEAH!!!!!

AC change will bring SO MUCH NEW GAMEPLAY!!!! WOW!!!! HOORAAAAY!!!!! This is REALLY the thing game needs!!! 100%!!!!!

 

On the other hand...

 

No. It's not. Game needs NEW CLASSES.

Who cares about change your 2-gun twilek into... 1-gun twilek... ????

 

Do you really think that game NEED this?

 

Game needs Content. NEW content. New classes. New POWERS. Not old reskinned/rebalanced sh**.

 

I fail to understand why my comment drew this response. A few errors I need to point out.

 

Not once did I indicate the game needed AC change.

 

I certainly did not insinuate it would "bring so much new gameplay", as you so eloquently put it.

 

You could have indicated that you felt the game did not need AC change without using my post to reinforce your point. Considering your post has little to do with mine, doing so would probably have made more sense.

 

I contend what the game REALLY needs is a new engine....everything else is generally broken on arrival. The foundation is faulty and should be repaired.

 

THAT is what I feel the game needs most of all. Of course it is unlikely we would ever see that.

[MadDutchman]

For the love of...

 

Class change will never happen. ever.

 

AC change maybe, it is just a mechanical change, but there will NEVER be class change, as it is tied to story.

 

There will NEVER be new classes, the amount of work required to make a new 1-50 story would be astronomical.

 

 

The sooner people get used to this fact, the better.

[LordArtemis]

I think most folks are asking for or standing against the idea of AC change. I think very few are looking for actual class change.

[CrazyCT]

Again, I still think this is an idea whos time has come. The choice barely means anything any longer. it is time to allow folks to change their AC, perhaps at max level, or past level 55 when the storyline is concluded.

 

Your choices matter!™

[LordArtemis]

Your choices matter!™

 

Lol. Yea, that bit them in a butt a bit.

Edited January 7, 2016 by LordArtemis

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Lol. Yea, that bit them in a butt a bit.

 

Although its nice to see you back artemis, looking forward to arguing with you in the future

 

AC change will never happen.

[DarthSpuds]

This. Why do people think it's okay to switch classes? They really screwed it up when they made the AC's. I knew this would happen. It was however, the only way to make sure each class had it's own story and you could play it from two perspectives.

 

I'm 45 years old.

 

I left school with barely any qualifications worthy of the name: that's my basic Class taken care of.

 

My first job was installing garage doors: Advanced Class.

I later switched Advanced Class and worked as a ground-labourer.

Then I went back into education, and got a Master's Degree in Ancient History & Archaeology.

Then I switched AC again and was making photograph frames for a Graduation Photography company.

Then I switched AC again and made precision interior components for the automotive industry - including working with/for Lotus, Bentley and Jaguar.

I then switched AC again to my current employment, where I work helping manage a theatre with a £1Million+ turnover.

 

Yeah, switching Advanced Classes is such a stupid idea, never happens in reality.

 

 

All The Best

[Sambaa]

You guys do realize this thread is like 2.5 years old right?

[LordArtemis]

Although its nice to see you back artemis, looking forward to arguing with you in the future

 

AC change will never happen.

 

Heh. Look forward to that.

[JediMasterSarynn]

Still don't understand how this isn't part of the respec ability. Has absolutely no story impact, only gear. And guess what? Respecing within an AC also carries a gear impact most of the time. I don't want to manage multiple versions of the same class for different AC's. I just want to have 8 characters, one for which class.

 

Bring this feature into respec and I will be releasing several names into Harbinger. Yoda knows that server needs it.

[Vhaegrant]

You are failing to understand that MECHANICALLY speaking, the Advanced Class in SWTOR is equivalent to a Class in WoW or any other MMO.

From my perspective it is you who is failing to understand that MECHANICALLY speaking, the Advanced Class in SWTOR has no direct equivalent to a Class in WoW.

However, the fact that it opens up all Roles to a single Class is a mechanical equivalent that can be found in WoW (Druid, Paladin and Monk) and many other MMOs (the Secret World, Guild Wars 1&2, Elder Scrolls Online, Rifts, to name the few that I could be bothered looking at class design on).

[edit: In FFXIV: a Realm Reborn, Class change is as complex as changing your equipped weapon]

I can't mind read either, but their design decisions have taken the ACs further away from each other, not brought them together. They even went with making the disciplines change names on their shared skill trees (Balance Shadow is now Serenity), as well as changing utilities and shared abilities to be more specific to that discipline alone. Their entire design direction has been to separate the ACs into their own distinct entities and play styles, and the only thing that will be swappable is disciplines within an AC.

Their design decisions have had no change on how close ACs are to each other. They still share the same story and restricted companions from 1-50. They still share a set of core abilities from the parent Class. They still share the same customisation options in creation.

All the renaming of the shared discipline does is open up the disciplines from 5 to 6 across the two ACs.

Some of the harder aspects preventing consideration of an AC swap have been removed such as ability training costs, discipline trees (set path now with a handful of utilities).

The recent inclusion to save keybindings makes a potential AC swap even easier.

That's a pretty good indication of how the developers feel about allowing Advanced Class change, since they've initially said No, a long time ago. Everything that has been changed has reinforced that AC swapping is not on their minds, and there is nothing to indicate otherwise in what they have produced in their game. You had more of a case for AC swap before 3.0 further separated the ACs.

They also said maybe a long time ago, and yes pre-launch. If they have been consistent on anything recently it is that they do not talk about anything 'speculatively', if they announce it on the forums it is when it is done and ready to go in.

I think there's a convincing argument that the discipline, training and keybind changes they have made make it more convenient for a future AC swap.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Vhaegrant

[Vhaegrant]

I'm 45 years old.

 

I left school with barely any qualifications worthy of the name: that's my basic Class taken care of.

 

My first job was installing garage doors: Advanced Class.

I later switched Advanced Class and worked as a ground-labourer.

Then I went back into education, and got a Master's Degree in Ancient History & Archaeology.

Then I switched AC again and was making photograph frames for a Graduation Photography company.

Then I switched AC again and made precision interior components for the automotive industry - including working with/for Lotus, Bentley and Jaguar.

I then switched AC again to my current employment, where I work helping manage a theatre with a £1Million+ turnover.

 

Yeah, switching Advanced Classes is such a stupid idea, never happens in reality.

 

 

All The Best

I like this post

 

However, I still appreciate that SWTOR is a game and has to have a sense of balance at its core.

In real life you can accumulate a vast array of skills, while in a game, especially one that uses the trinity of Heal/ Tank/ DPS it is important to have a degree of segregation to emphasise the importance of specialisation in a role and make players feel they have a part to play in a team.

 

Some MMOs go hardcore and limit the character class to a single role, some are more casual and allow class to switch between any role. Most strike a balance between the two.

 

Given the direction of SWTOR to a more casual style of play (an audience it should have been catering to from the start, not the hardcore, and by hardcore I mean tedious grind, it set its sight on at launch) I see the opening up of AC swap as a positive step.

 

It has zero impact on the Disciplines and still restricts access to heal and tank abilities at the same time giving players a few more options. Which is a good thing

[Vhaegrant]

You guys do realize this thread is like 2.5 years old right?

And as long as people are being polite and discussing the merits of a proposed change I'm not sure it matters how old the thread is.

 

I expect there are certain topics that are far older that are constantly resurrected in new threads, such as 'New Engine Needed' or 'We need speech bubbles'

Edited January 7, 2016 by Vhaegrant

[Vhaegrant]

Although its nice to see you back artemis, looking forward to arguing with you in the future

 

AC change will *likely* never happen.

Fixed that for you

I'm fine if it never happens.

At this point I have one of every Advanced Class at level 65 and am working back through a few of the stories I enjoyed the most. The chances are if it was ever implemented it wouldn't be in a way that I would use it. But, it wouldn't bother me if other players got the chance to take advantage of it.

 

I like discussing aspects of games design and trying to understand why some feel it is a fundamental part of a game to restrict a characters options to such a limited aspect. While others are a bit more open to change.

It's interesting because it's a mindset that seems to have been around for a long, long time. While not game related the philosopher Plato was talking about the merits of restricting a person to one occupation in 'the Republic'.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Vhaegrant

[IslanderRebel]

So, the Species Change and Barber Shop mentioned in the Dulfy interview from months ago are finally realities. That's a good sign! It means the devs are actually serious about their "Yeah, we'd like to do that" statements.

 

In that same interview, it was mentioned that Advanced Class changes were also on the table and likely to happen. I'm curious if the community team can update us on whether there's any time-table for when this will be implemented.

 

Ideally, I'd love it to be a switch you can unlock, then flip any time — finally allowing me to Tank & Heal with one character.

 

But in reality I'm sure it will cost like 6000 Cartel Coins to unlock it, then another 2000 Cartel Coins every time you switch (discounted 3.2% for subscribers, of course) with a 2 month cooldown. Oh well, what can you do? As a start, I'd be happy just to have the option in-game, in any form.

 

So! Does BioWare have any upcoming plans for this that can be shared with us?

 

~~~

 

Edit: While I am proud of how much you are feeding the Dark Side with your blind anger and hate, and vehement vows of impossibility, let me remind you of (source):

 

 

We got the Species part. That makes the AC part also have a lot of credibility.

 

So anyway, any ETA or news, community team?

 

 

 

Not just no , but HELL NO.

Seriously, they couldn't fix the rakghoul event and get bounty Contract week running the following week and you expect an "advance class change" to happen?

Bartender, give this man a double pepsi on the rocks!!!!

[knowmyname]

How easy is it to level a new character?

 

Oh and holy %\^\*{+|£€ welcome to 2016.

 

Why was a 2013 post allowed to resurrect?

[Anzel]

I'm super excited for the AC change. I have like 10 characters I'm going to switch right away.

[LordArtemis]

It is just plain silly to cling to the outdated notion that AC means anything anymore IMO. Your base class is the only thing that has any meaning at present, and that is only because it determines your storyline.

 

AC is just a container for a playstyle, and like any other setup it should be something that folks can change.

Edited January 8, 2016 by LordArtemis

[Vhaegrant]

How easy is it to level a new character?

 

Oh and holy %\^\*{+|£€ welcome to 2016.

 

Why was a 2013 post allowed to resurrect?

 

The ease with which you can level a character is a poor argument for considering an AC swap function.

If it's so easy to level a character then it shouldn't be a concern how someone sets their AC.

As it stands you can purchase a fresh level 60 with cartel coins (comes with a free character slot too).

Every time something makes getting a max level character easier it undermines the argument against considering an AC swap function.

 

It may have been started in 2013 but it's been bubbling away ever since.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Vhaegrant

[Strajder]

It is just plain silly to cling to the outdated notion that AC means anything anymore IMO. Your base class is the only thing that has any meaning at present, and that is only because it determines your storyline.

 

AC is just a container for a playstyle, and like any other setup it should be something that folks can change.

Reality are people in finder ops and HM flashpoints who queue as tanks being a DPS, just to get the pop faster. Also those who queue for them underleveled and undergeared, "because bolster", and then fail epically because bolster doesn't increase secondary stats like Defense, Shield and Absorb rating.

 

AC swap would just be adding fuel to the fire of noobery and laziness.

[Aries_cz]

I'm 45 years old.

 

I left school with barely any qualifications worthy of the name: that's my basic Class taken care of.

 

My first job was installing garage doors: Advanced Class.

I later switched Advanced Class and worked as a ground-labourer.

Then I went back into education, and got a Master's Degree in Ancient History & Archaeology.

Then I switched AC again and was making photograph frames for a Graduation Photography company.

Then I switched AC again and made precision interior components for the automotive industry - including working with/for Lotus, Bentley and Jaguar.

I then switched AC again to my current employment, where I work helping manage a theatre with a £1Million+ turnover.

 

Yeah, switching Advanced Classes is such a stupid idea, never happens in reality.

 

 

All The Best

 

Not really.

More like Your class is the high school, and Advanced class being university.

What you described is swapping Crew Skills

[Frenesi]

Reality are people in finder ops and HM flashpoints who queue as tanks being a DPS, just to get the pop faster. Also those who queue for them underleveled and undergeared, "because bolster", and then fail epically because bolster doesn't increase secondary stats like Defense, Shield and Absorb rating.

 

AC swap would just be adding fuel to the fire of noobery and laziness.

 

Exactly. All of the ACs, outside of mara/jugg, are ABSOLUTELY different. Being a good sage will not make you good shadow. Being a ****** sage...

 

Stop the cancer killing grouping.