ETA on Advanced Class change?

[waterboytkd]

If Bioware is gonna start letting people change their Advanced Classes they may as well start letting people buy level 55 toons.

 

And buy BiS PvE gear. I've grinded Hardmode and Nightmare Dread Operations for the gear on my Operative. I don't want to, and according to the people Pro-AC change, SHOULDN'T have to grind for it again.

 

And lemme buy BiS PvP gear. I've played so much Ranked PvP to get the best gear on my agent. Why should I have to do it again?

 

There should be some way to purchase all the Datacrons too so I don't have to get them on my other toons.

 

<end sarcasm>

 

One of these things is not like the others.

 

Your sarcastic suggestion would allow a player to go from 1 level 55 toon with BiS PvE/PvP gear to, say, 6 level 55 toons, all with BiS PvE/PvP gear, all with very little game time played.

 

AC switching allows a person to go from 1 level 55 toon with BiS gear to...1 level 55 toon with BiS gear. And that BiS gear might be irrelevant if they switched from, say, Tank Powertech to Healer Mercenary. Or really, from any tank/healer/dps role to a different role.

 

Not only does AC switching NOT obviate the game, it may even increase the amount of grind a person has to do, since their existing gear might become useless.

Edited September 15, 2014 by waterboytkd

[hallucigenocide]

some people actually grow attached to their characters due to their story and the experience they've had with it.. lets say that the advance class it's attached to drastically changes(wich it can) and they find them selves no longer enjoying it.. would'nt it be nice if there was an option to switch AC then? especially if they know they'd enjoy that.. things like that can be a huge improvement for some.

[Jadescythe]

One of these things is not like the others.

 

Your sarcastic suggestion would allow a player to go from 1 level 55 toon with BiS PvE/PvP gear to, say, 6 level 55 toons, all with BiS PvE/PvP gear, all with very little game time played.

 

AC switching allows a person to go from 1 level 55 toon with BiS gear to...1 level 55 toon with BiS gear. And that BiS gear might be irrelevant if they switched from, say, Tank Powertech to Healer Mercenary. Or really, from any tank/healer/dps role to a different role.

 

Not only does AC switching NOT obviate the game, it may even increase the amount of grind a person has to do, since their existing gear might become useless.

 

I think the point is that it's a slippery slope to what is allowed to be purchased in game without working for it. You say you are going from 1 toon to 1 toon, but I have 2 toons to have both ACs and have to grind out two sets of gear or move gear around in ugly Legacy gear to have 2 sets.

 

So you'll have those with money that can have 2 ACs with 1 toon, while others have to work twice as hard to do the same thing. If you're ok with this, then why should I have to get tank and DPS gear for my Jugg when I already got one set? Wouldn't it just be better to have an option to pay money to swap my DPS gear to tank gear? I mean, I'm trading in one set of gear for another. Less grind is better?

[Savej]

Because a shadow plays nothing like a sage. A gunslinger plays nothing like a scoundrel. A commando plays nothing like a vanguard. Guardian would be the only thing that even comes close to being similar to sentinel, and only in focus spec.

 

Classes sharing some baseline skills doesn't make them the same. They are each their own unique class. If you wanted to play a ranged class instead of a stealther you shouldn't have leveled a stealther. People only want an AC respec so that when their AC counterpart becomes fotm they can easily swap to it.

 

Again, to use another example from other MMO's, asking for AC respec is like asking to go from a rogue to a ranger. They are fundamentally completely different. If you want to play a different AC then *********** reroll. Get over this silly idea of class vs advanced class. At the end of the day its a DIFFERENT CLASS and just like every other game out there, if you want to play another class you have to REROLL.

 

ACs aren't completely different classes. No more than tree druids are different from stealth dps druids or healing paladins are different from tank paladin. Sure they all play different, have different rotations, etc.but the

lore for them is all shared and, in swtor's case, the stats, many abilities and most of the gear is shared (can't say the same about spec changes in wow). The notion that acs are completely different is an example of some old devs providing wild turkey while calling it blue label jw and you believing them. Current devs and game docs do not try to say that.

 

Originally, btw, bw fully intended to allow ac swapping.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Savej

[Raansu]

I suppose you judge books by their cover too huh? What do you know at level 10 about end game tanking? Hell, from 10-54 you never even need to tank, so why would it even matter? It's a heads or tails choice at 10.

 

Sure, if you do zero group content. All the FP's after level 15 needs tanks. Also, the game is pretty self explanatory so no its not a heads or tails choice. Do you want to tank using a single lightsaber and be a heavy armor dps or do you want to be a dual wielding dps with all trees being different styles of dps such as dots, single target burst or aoe burst. Do you want to be a ranged class that can spec heals or dps, or do you want to be a stealth class than can tank or dps. The list goes on and on.

 

Just because you share some class abilities doesn't mean they are similar because fundamentally the AC's are not even being remotely close to being the same. Yes they all share a tree, but all of them with the exception of focus spec play completely different to one another. Knights are the only AC that are extremely similar to one another.

 

Who cares about W0W? What the hell does W0W have to do with this? The classes are most certainly NOT as different as you profess. Not only do I share EVERY CLASS skill with the other AC (which is half of my entire skills), every AC shares an entire TREE!!!

 

So you're going to tell me that a sage is not different from a shadow? Even though one is a ranged class and the other is melee stealth? Are you really going to tell me that a gunslinger is not that different from a scoundrel? A commando isn't that different from a vanguard? If you seriously can tell me with a straight face that this classes are not different just because they share a few baseline abilities....well there is something seriously wrong with you. I've leveled a PT and a Merc, played pyro in both. I'm pretty damn sure my PT plays nothing like merc. Hell you don't even use unload as a PT (if you do, please slap yourself for being bad).

 

Also your shared abilities do not even come close to being half of your skill set. Stop over exaggerating.

 

I suppose you're against respec's as well? Hell, you should also be against alts too right? I mean, you seem to think the difference is so great that only a few have mastered the art of playing multiple roles, so I guess you think alts should be removed too right? If you want a tank, you should have rolled a tank...right? If you want a DPS, you should have rolled a DPS...I mean, since you seem to think it's such a black and white issue, how could you possibly support alts? If you did support alts, you'd be a hypocrite, because that's the same thing as swapping ACs...it's merely a role change, nothing more. Swapping from my Mando to my Vanguard is really no different than allowing an AC swap...in fact it might be worse because I then have double the companions, double the missions I can run, double the crafting classes...geezus...think of the harm alts cause.

 

I think your anger and ignorance is impeding what little logic you ever had. Having an alt is not the same as AC switching.

 

Different games, different rules. FFXIV:ARR lets players switch class as easily as changing weapons. /shrug

 

Erm....not the best example to use in your argument. I like FFXIV's single character concept, however, you still have to level everything. Its not like you can take a black mage to 50 and then swap weapons and be a 50 monk. No, if you switch weapons to a monk and never leveled one, guess what? You're level one now.

 

Also FFXIV has a two tier system just like SWTOR. You have your class up to level 30 then you do the questline to get your crystal for your job going from say a pugilist to a monk. On top of that you need a sub class. Monk for example needs a level 30 pugilist and a level 15 lancer in order to be able to get the monk quest.

 

I like FFXIV's system, but at the end of the day you still have to level each class/job individually. So really the concept is exactly the same, as it should be.

 

A Sorceror and an Assassin have exactly the same companions, exactly the same class quests, and share many of the same abilities. This makes them similar in ways that differing classes in different games are not similar. But once again, this is bordering upon being a strawman because it doesn't really matter.

 

Again, are you people really going to say that a 30m ranged class is the same as a melee stealther? Come on guys, this is kind of pathetic. Assassin and sorcerer are nothing alike. Oh and since this seems to be a common argument of ignorance (not counting things like interrupt/cc breaker/buff/heal since thats baseline with all classes) they share a total of 11 abilities, some of which are not used depending on the class. A sorc is never going to be using saber strike or thrash and an assassin rarely uses force lightning (incredibly situational).

 

The assassin alone has 30 unique skills/abilities. Soooo ya, not even close to sharing a large amount of skills. They are fundamentally two completely different classes.

 

What matters is this... At the end of the day, how does one player being able to pay money to changer their Sorc into an Assassin impact you in a way that can not be prevented or managed appropriately? How does this impact change your experience with the game and why should that be a justifiable reason to not suggest this feature be implemented?

 

Because its lazy? You want to play another class? Level it up. Tired of tanking and want to heal? Level up a damn healer.

[Raansu]

ACs aren't completely different classes.

 

The fact that this keeps getting repeated makes me believe most of you have no idea how to play this game. I can't believe anyone here could say with a straight face that something like say a sniper and an operative are not two completely different classes. They play nothing alike.

[Savej]

 

Because its lazy? You want to play another class? Level it up. Tired of tanking and want to heal? Level up a damn healer.

 

... and name-calling. Your skills are now complete. Note that in other games like wow it is perfectly possible for one character to switch from tank to healer to dps. And sentinels or dps juggs can tank many fps including kdy just fine.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Savej

[TUXs]

... and name-calling. Your skills are now complete. Note that in other games like wow it is perfectly possible for one character to switch from tank to healer to dps. And sentinels can tank many fps including kdy just fine.

Yeah, his emotions are starting to get the best of him when he resorts to name calling.

[Orizuru]

Erm....not the best example to use in your argument. I like FFXIV's single character concept, however, you still have to level everything. Its not like you can take a black mage to 50 and then swap weapons and be a 50 monk. No, if you switch weapons to a monk and never leveled one, guess what? You're level one now.

 

Also FFXIV has a two tier system just like SWTOR. You have your class up to level 30 then you do the questline to get your crystal for your job going from say a pugilist to a monk. On top of that you need a sub class. Monk for example needs a level 30 pugilist and a level 15 lancer in order to be able to get the monk quest.

 

I like FFXIV's system, but at the end of the day you still have to level each class/job individually. So really the concept is exactly the same, as it should be.

 

 

 

Again, are you people really going to say that a 30m ranged class is the same as a melee stealther? Come on guys, this is kind of pathetic. Assassin and sorcerer are nothing alike. Oh and since this seems to be a common argument of ignorance (not counting things like interrupt/cc breaker/buff/heal since thats baseline with all classes) they share a total of 11 abilities, some of which are not used depending on the class. A sorc is never going to be using saber strike or thrash and an assassin rarely uses force lightning (incredibly situational).

 

The assassin alone has 30 unique skills/abilities. Soooo ya, not even close to sharing a large amount of skills. They are fundamentally two completely different classes.

 

 

 

Because its lazy? You want to play another class? Level it up. Tired of tanking and want to heal? Level up a damn healer.

 

You're splitting hairs. It doesn't matter if my example was good or bad because any comparison to any other game is just a strawman and shouldn't have any relevancy here in any form other than a distraction from the topic being discussed.

 

So you think people being lazy is the only reason this shouldn't be discussed as a suggested feature? So what you are telling me is the idea has no impact upon you in any way other than it offends your sense and sensibilities? And nobody is trying to argue that there aren't unique differences between the 2 ACs that are available for any one class. You are going to great lengths to discount any similarities they may share and steer the conversation away from them. It just doesn't matter though. If its a feature that gives more people more options and doesn't impact the rest of the players negatively then its worth discussing without people getting their knickers in a bunch over subjective personal opinions about whether people are being lazy or not.

[LordArtemis]

The fact that this keeps getting repeated makes me believe most of you have no idea how to play this game. I can't believe anyone here could say with a straight face that something like say a sniper and an operative are not two completely different classes. They play nothing alike.

 

Spec is not a class.

 

It's hard for me to keep a straight face reading this kind of silliness from folks. Its embarrassing to me sometimes to see folks make arguments that are petty and meaningless and have those folks on the same side of the argument as I am.

 

SPEC IS NOT A CLASS. Because a particular spec plays completely different than another spec, it does not qualify it as a CLASS. OBVIOUSLY the folks that want AC change likely do not view ACs as a class, and that is likely because they were designed as specs, not classes like they SHOULD have been designed.

 

Which is why the problem exists in the first place. POOR DESIGN. If it actually FELT like a class IMO folks would not be asking for the change.

 

They need to improve AC design so they actually feel like classes instead of simply specs. Then I believe the requests to swap ACs would diminish substantially.

 

If you are going to argue against AC swapping at least make an effort to put forth a thoughtful argument. Otherwise you make folks that are truly against AC swapping look bad by association.

 

Here is a clue....reroll, lazy and "ACs are classes" are obviously NOT reputable arguments IMO.

Edited September 15, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Raansu]

They need to improve AC design so they actually feel like classes instead of simply specs. Then I believe the requests to swap ACs would diminish substantially.

 

Sniper is a 35m ranged class. Operative is stealth melee class. Merc is a 30m ranged class turret. PT is a melee class. Sage is a 30m caster. Assassins is a melee stealth class. Jugg/Marauder are the only classes that are even remotely similar to each other, and even then they play differently enough to distinquish the two as being unique classes.

 

Every single AC plays fundamentally different. They are different classes. The fact that anyone is even comparing any of them to being similar is insane.

 

The "problem" is people don't want to put any effort into anything. The other AC is now FOTM so they want to switch and have free reign. I mean damn, at this point why don't we just get free 180 gear to? I no longer feel like tanking. Can I pay to "respec" my gear to full dps set? The logic is exactly the same.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Raansu

[LordArtemis]

Sniper is a 35m ranged class. Operative is stealth melee class. Merc is a 30m ranged class turret. PT is a melee class. Sage is a 30m caster. Assassins is a melee stealth class. Jugg/Marauder are the only classes that are even remotely similar to each other, and even then they play differently enough to distinquish the two as being unique classes.

 

Every single AC plays fundamentally different. They are different classes. The fact that anyone is even comparing any of them to being similar is insane.

 

The "problem" is people don't want to put any effort into anything. The other AC is now FOTM so they want to switch and have free reign. I mean damn, at this point why don't we just get free 180 gear to? I no longer feel like tanking. Can I pay to "respec" my gear to full dps set? The logic is exactly the same.

 

SPEC IS NOT A CLASS.

 

Why are you incapable of understanding this? Specs are not designed to be classes, rarely if ever are they designed and presented as unique classes....they are designed as SPECS, in order to support roles.

 

Are you disputing the very definition of spec and role? Somehow spec is now class?

 

SPECS play fundamentally different in almost all games that have specs. That does NOT make them individual classes, and the contention that a spec is a class is rather foolish IMO.

 

The problem is bad design, compounded by ridiculous arguments that justify bad design.

Edited September 15, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Raansu]

SPEC IS NOT A CLASS.

 

Why are you incapable of understanding this? Specs are not designed to be classes, rarely if ever are they designed and presented as unique classes....they are designed as SPECS, in order to support roles.

 

Are you disputing the very definition of spec and role? Somehow spec is now class?

 

SPECS play fundamentally different in almost all games that have specs. That does NOT make them individual classes, and the contention that a spec is a class is rather foolish IMO.

 

The problem is bad design, compounded by ridiculous arguments that justify bad design.

 

AC's are NOT specs. That is the most idiotic thing ever to suggest. Each AC is its own class. An operative is not a sniper just like in other MMO's a rogue is not a ranger.

[LordArtemis]

AC's are NOT specs. That is the most idiotic thing ever to suggest. Each AC is its own class. An operative is not a sniper just like in other MMO's a rogue is not a ranger.

 

I didn't say ACs are specs. You say fundamentally different play styles define classes. That is the one of the most foolish contentions anyone could EVER make. It proves to me you have no concept of what defines a class.

 

Clearly.

 

You are not helping.

 

You are making it harder to convince folks that AC change is a bad idea by making foolish judgmental arguments that have no basis in reality.

Edited September 15, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Raansu]

I didn't say ACs are spec. You say fundamentally different play styles are classes. That is the one of the most foolish contentions anyone could EVER make. It proves to me you have no concept of what defines a class.

 

Clearly.

 

You are not helping.

 

You are making it harder to convince folks that AC change is a bad idea by making foolish judgmental arguments that have no basis in reality.

 

Because they are fundamentally different. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. An operative is not a sniper and a sniper is not an operative. They play nothing alike. They are their own unique class. Ones a damn stealther and the other a is ranged class.

[Orizuru]

Lets put one argument to bed please.

 

Classes are classes. Classes are not advanced classes. Classes are not specs.

Advanced Classes are advanced classes. Advanced Classes are not classes. Advanced classes are not specs.

Specs are specializations. Specs are not classes. Specs are not advanced classes.

 

I think the above are some definitions we can all agree on. Now that we have that cleared up, we can now begin to realize that it doesn't matter because there isn't some universal rule imposed by any industry, government, or Illumanati affiliated group that says any of the 3 can't be change if BioWare deems it necessary.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Orizuru

[LordArtemis]

Because they are fundamentally different. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. An operative is not a sniper and a sniper is not an operative. They play nothing alike. They are their own unique class. Ones a damn stealther and the other a is ranged class.

 

Hard to grasp?

 

Does a shadow priest play like a holy priest? I am frankly mystified by your level of lack of understanding here.

 

SPECS ARE FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT. But they are NOT classes. They are SPECS. Fundamentally different play does not, I repeat DOES NOT define something as a class.

 

Obviously. Otherwise this argument for AC change would not even exist. Heck, spec swap wouldnt likely exist either.

 

I am beginning to think you are trying to sabotage the discussion against AC change on purpose.

 

If your not going to help the movement against AC change, why participate in the discussion?

[Raansu]

Hard to grasp?

 

Does a shadow priest play like a holy priest? I am frankly mystified by your level of lack of understanding here.

 

SPECS ARE FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT. But they are NOT classes. They are SPECS. Fundamentally different play does not, I repeat DOES NOT define something as a class.

 

Obviously. Otherwise this argument for AC change would not even exist. Heck, spec swap wouldnt likely exist either.

 

I am beginning to think you are trying to sabotage the discussion against AC change on purpose.

 

If your not going to help the movement against AC change, why participate in the discussion?

 

*facedesk*

 

Its amazing how you don't understand anything being said, or anyone here for that matter.

[waterboytkd]

I think the point is that it's a slippery slope to what is allowed to be purchased in game without working for it. You say you are going from 1 toon to 1 toon, but I have 2 toons to have both ACs and have to grind out two sets of gear or move gear around in ugly Legacy gear to have 2 sets.

 

So you'll have those with money that can have 2 ACs with 1 toon, while others have to work twice as hard to do the same thing. If you're ok with this, then why should I have to get tank and DPS gear for my Jugg when I already got one set? Wouldn't it just be better to have an option to pay money to swap my DPS gear to tank gear? I mean, I'm trading in one set of gear for another. Less grind is better?

 

Slippery slope is a argument fallacy. Allowing a person to breath is a slippery slope because they could use that breath to stay alive, and then use their life to kill innocent people. See? Slippery slope. Of course, my example is total bull. That's what a slippery slope is. Bull. Just because BW lets us swap ACs doesn't mean they have to let us buy level 55 toons, or buy BiS gear.

 

As for your gear swap thing...honestly, who cares? If there was a vendor that let you swap mods and CC for a new mod of the same level and quality, what do I care if you want to dump a bunch of cash on this game and change your dps into a tank or vice versa? Granted, I play for the PvP, so gear grind is a means to an end (and even then, an obnoxious one that needs to be abolished), not the end itself. For PvE, you play to just get the gear, so a gear shortcut essentially cuts out how much PvE endgame you do.

 

Which is another distinction. AC swap lets people skip past the leveling portion. Not the end game. And it doesn't let someone skip the leveling on a story line they've never done. Only let's them skip the leveling on content they've already run.

 

And if you're real concern is that someone who has a bunch of money (and is willing to waste it) has an easier go of it than those without...I mean, that's real life, isn't it? And this is a product that a for-profit company is selling. MMO communities are one of the more unique consumers out there. They have the notion that, even though you pay for your product, you should have to work to get satisfaction out of it. This isn't a life, and it isn't a job. It's a game. Why shouldn't some conveniences and shortcuts exist for those who are willing to pay for it?

[LordArtemis]

Lets put one argument to bed please.

 

Classes are classes. Classes are not advanced classes. Classes are not specs.

Advanced Classes are advanced classes. Advanced Classes are not classes. Advanced classes are not specs.

Specs are specializations. Specs are not classes. Specs are not advanced classes.

 

I think the above are some definitions we can all agree on. Now that we have that cleared up, we can now begin to realize that it doesn't matter because there isn't some universal rule imposed by any industry, government, or Illumanati affiliated group that says any of the 3 can't be change if BioWare deems it necessary.

 

Well, I point to the idea that folks do not seem to be clamoring for class change, and that stands in evidence as to why folks are asking for AC change.

 

If AC was designed to feel like a unique class like base class is, then I expect the argument would not exist. In fact, if we started as our AC from level 1 things might be different.

 

They designed ACs as very unique spec branches, but presented them as classes. That is where everything went wrong IMO.

[LordArtemis]

*facedesk*

 

Its amazing how you don't understand anything being said, or anyone here for that matter.

 

lol

 

What amazes me is that you would make a comment such as this and appear to actually believe it. It is you my confused friend that can't seem to grasp anything being said or anyone here.

 

If you are going to participate in the discussion against AC change you should at least contribute. Otherwise you might as well support AC change and get it over with.

 

I have been involved in this particular discussion for a LONG time. I assure you I have put in the time and effort to understand both sides of the issues thoroughly. Perhaps you should make the same effort.

 

My first post in this thread...from May of LAST YEAR. PAGE 2.

Edited September 15, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Orizuru]

Well, I point to the idea that folks do not seem to be clamoring for class change, and that stands in evidence as to why folks are asking for AC change.

 

If AC was designed to feel like a unique class like base class is, then I expect the argument would not exist. In fact, if we started as our AC from level 1 things might be different.

 

They designed ACs as very unique spec branches, but presented them as classes. That is where everything went wrong IMO.

 

I would just like the conversation to have some depth without the logical fallacies.

 

In my opinion, the only argument that is needed for why the feature shouldn't be implemented is presented to a player every single time they interact with an Advanced Class trainer NPC. It clearly states that this decision is permanent. That would be more than enough of reason to satisfy me if I were to ask Bioware why the feature doesn't exist and isn't on the table for future consideration.

 

However, I recognize that the feature really doesn't detract from my experience in the game in any way, so if people want to ask for it and have discussions about it, then I believe they have every right to do so. If the feature were to be added to the game, I would probably use it at least once. I'm just not that fond of my Jugg any longer. I've been leveling a Mara alt, and I have no qualms continuing to do so, but the Jugg has titles, mounts, pets, and datacrons that I spent a lot of time acquiring. If I could change that Jugg into a Mara for a small fee, I would be quite pleased to do so. If I can never make the change, I'm not out anything either.

 

Apparently though, someone here thinks this makes me lazy. lol

Edited September 15, 2014 by Orizuru

[Jadescythe]

Slippery slope is a argument fallacy. Allowing a person to breath is a slippery slope because they could use that breath to stay alive, and then use their life to kill innocent people. See? Slippery slope. Of course, my example is total bull. That's what a slippery slope is. Bull. Just because BW lets us swap ACs doesn't mean they have to let us buy level 55 toons, or buy BiS gear.

 

As for your gear swap thing...honestly, who cares? If there was a vendor that let you swap mods and CC for a new mod of the same level and quality, what do I care if you want to dump a bunch of cash on this game and change your dps into a tank or vice versa? Granted, I play for the PvP, so gear grind is a means to an end (and even then, an obnoxious one that needs to be abolished), not the end itself. For PvE, you play to just get the gear, so a gear shortcut essentially cuts out how much PvE endgame you do.

 

Which is another distinction. AC swap lets people skip past the leveling portion. Not the end game. And it doesn't let someone skip the leveling on a story line they've never done. Only let's them skip the leveling on content they've already run.

 

And if you're real concern is that someone who has a bunch of money (and is willing to waste it) has an easier go of it than those without...I mean, that's real life, isn't it? And this is a product that a for-profit company is selling. MMO communities are one of the more unique consumers out there. They have the notion that, even though you pay for your product, you should have to work to get satisfaction out of it. This isn't a life, and it isn't a job. It's a game. Why shouldn't some conveniences and shortcuts exist for those who are willing to pay for it?

 

You realize all of your points here support allowing the purchase of level 55 toons, right? I mean, you only skip leveling, not end game. If people have money to make things easier, that's just life, isn't it? And if you want to differentiate the whole class story thing, then why not just allow people to buy a 55 Jugg if they already have a 55 Mara?

 

I mean, honestly, why play the game if you can just pay to get what you want?

 

I don't even have a strong opinion on this topic, but someone has to point out the flaws in the arguments being made. Every time you make an argument that something should be allowed to be purchased with real life money, it makes the gameplay experience for everyone worse. The game becomes less like a game and more like an expensive ATM. For those with less time to play, they offer boosts for XP, Valor, Social Points, etc. that can allow those with more money and less time the ability to progress faster, but still have to complete the content to get where they want to be. BW is trying to make money, but if you start offering more than cosmetic enhancements for money, players will start leaving the game.

[LordArtemis]

I would just like the conversation to have some depth without the logical fallacies.

 

In my opinion, the only argument that is needed for why the feature shouldn't be implemented is presented to a player every single time they interact with an Advanced Class trainer NPC. It clearly states that this decision is permanent. That would be more than enough of reason to satisfy me if I were to ask Bioware why the feature doesn't exist and isn't on the table for future consideration.

 

However, I recognize that the feature really doesn't detract from my experience in the game in any way, so if people want to ask for it and have discussions about it, then I believe they have every right to do so. If the feature were to be added to the game, I would probably use it at least once. I'm just not that fond of my Jugg any longer. I've been leveling a Mara alt, and I have no qualms continuing to do so, but the Jugg has titles, mounts, pets, and datacrons that I spent a lot of time acquiring. If I could change that Jugg into a Mara for a small fee, I would be quite pleased to do so. If I can never make the change, I'm not out anything either.

 

Apparently though, someone here thinks this makes me lazy. lol

 

Calling it lazy is a fools errand IMO.

 

My reasons that I am against it are pretty simple, but they are personal. I feel that the AC choice as it stands now is already pretty meaningless, and allowing AC change would make that choice even more meaningless....to the point where ACs are really just fancy containers for spec sets IMO.

 

I would prefer they go in the opposite direction and actually make the choice meaningful, much like the choice for a base class. There are many ways they could accomplish this...one of the easiest ways could be to simply remove the base class altogether and have you choose your AC at character creation.

 

A few unique missions for your class (which used to be called your advanced class) would help IMO, as well as removing all game references to the old base class. All abilities would now fall under the new class. The story would stay the same.

 

Then, they could rework the specs to have 4 options....heal, DPS, tank and a hybrid line that would unlock when you reach a certain level on one of the three primary specs.

 

That would go a long way toward making the choice meaningful IMO and still offer plenty of variety of choice to players.

 

If the majority of players supported the idea of AC change I would begrudgingly live with it. But I would prefer, personally to see it remain as it is. My best case scenario would be to see the design improved.

Edited September 15, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Ottoattack]

Sniper is a 35m ranged class. Operative is stealth melee class. Merc is a 30m ranged class turret. PT is a melee class. Sage is a 30m caster. Assassins is a melee stealth class. Jugg/Marauder are the only classes that are even remotely similar to each other, and even then they play differently enough to distinquish the two as being unique classes.

 

Every single AC plays fundamentally different. They are different classes. The fact that anyone is even comparing any of them to being similar is insane.

 

The "problem" is people don't want to put any effort into anything. The other AC is now FOTM so they want to switch and have free reign. I mean damn, at this point why don't we just get free 180 gear to? I no longer feel like tanking. Can I pay to "respec" my gear to full dps set? The logic is exactly the same.

 

AC =/= classes. There is no disagreement there. But there is a fact that they do use the same base skills. I do not see what would be the problem that you can select which AC you access at a specific time. I understand that you will need to train the skills in the new AC and they may use different MH or OH.

 

The question is, if this available in the game right now, the learning/cost to deal with the switch falls on the player if they elect to switch AC. Players who do not want to switch their AC do not have to do so. If you do not want to use this option how does it negatively impact you? Obivoulsy, it positively impacts someone else.