ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Superman_AZ]

not many people accept they are wrong.

 

Oh the irony.

[BuriDogshin]

not many people accept they are wrong.

 

I am never wrong, because in the instant I realize that I used to be wrong, I am no longer wrong.

So I always believe that what I believe to be correct is correct. Anything else would be madness.

[ekwalizer]

Originally Posted by ZahirS View Post:

 

We NEED this fix, because currently AC is restrictive enough to make you re-roll and the game is not meant to restrict your gameplay, if you re-roll should be for a pleasure of enjoying the game not just for a AC you like.

 

After saying that:

 

Anyone against this, is basically apologists of "restrictions" no matter what they are, how they work or even if they are good restrictions. Anyone that enjoys the game and want to futher his/her experience would definetly like this change.

 

AC is actually, quite in fact meant to "restrict your gameplay".

 

You speak for the entire gaming community now?

[Savej]

Nevermind Edited May 25, 2014 by Savej

[ZahirS]

I am never wrong, because in the instant I realize that I used to be wrong, I am no longer wrong.

So I always believe that what I believe to be correct is correct. Anything else would be madness.

 

So funny you say that.

 

So thinking your wrong makes your right?.....interesting for a dancer.

[BuriDogshin]

So thinking your wrong makes your right?

Thinking your were wrong (in the past), makes you right (now).

'Twas ever so. We are not born right. Being right is a perpetual process.

[Duskrequim]

This has become quite the funny bunch of posts. People who have very strong opinions blasting others for their opinions then taking offense when those people blast back.... this back and forth reminds me of Kindergarten

[Ratajack]

Noone but me repsonded to your post, consider my answer down to the point too, because sadly not many people accept they are wrong.

 

The irony is strong with this one.

[ZahirS]

Thinking your were wrong (in the past), makes you right (now).

'Twas ever so. We are not born right. Being right is a perpetual process.

 

Not really, thinking ur wrong and fixing what u did in the future makes u right.

 

thinking only ur wrong without doing anything else is still wrong, perpetually.

[Sendrel]

Nevermind

 

Its really about all you can do.

 

/shrug and move on.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Sendrel

[ZahirS]

Its really about all you can do.

 

/shrug and move on.

 

How about be responsible so people dont pick on you?

[LordArtemis]

How about be responsible so people dont pick on you?

 

You really need to strongly consider taking your own advice Zahir.

[Marstrike]

This has become quite the funny bunch of posts. People who have very strong opinions blasting others for their opinions then taking offense when those people blast back.... this back and forth reminds me of Kindergarten

 

Reminds me of a forum on the interne..... yeah.

[Superman_AZ]

You really need to strongly consider taking your own advice Zahir.

 

If we are asking him to take his own advice, can we start with the wisdom he aims at me?

[Vhaegrant]

At any rate, getting back to the point....would anyone like to truthfully indicate why they want or do not want AC change? I think it would be a nice change from the large amounts of hyperbole that has dominated this thread from both sides of the fence.

 

I think I've truthfully indicated several times why I would like an AC swap feature, I guess once more wouldn't hurt, especially given it's the threads anniversary

 

I play SWTOR to chill out and relax, a large part of the enjoyment comes from the setting (it has enough connection with the iconic imagery of Star Wars for me to tap into childhood nostalgia of the original films and playing with the Hasbro action figures).

If this was any other IP I doubt I would have lasted as long as I have as there is so little player input into the game.

 

I would have liked to see a game where I could play proper Star Wars aliens and not just recoloured humans. I would have liked to have seen a game where I could slide from the Jedi to the Sith and back again. I would have liked to see a game where choices I made had a long term impact and not just a mail response. I would have liked to have chosen my crew rather than have them forced on me. I would have liked romance options that felt like an interaction rather than a checklist (or entrapment with some of the limited responses).

 

There are just so many areas that I would have liked to have seen implemented differently with more input from the player. As it stands I feel trapped playing my character in Bioware's story (I shouldn't be that surprised as it is really no different than any of their other games in that regard).

 

I realise the need to incorporate some form of balancing system, both from a PvP aspect with the balance between players and a PvE aspect with balance between boss encounters. This balancing system hinges on the way in which abilities are segregated from each other. This tends to mean some form of class based system with each class having access to certain skills.

 

I have far more time at the gaming table than I would care to mention and there are two fundamental design systems class based (the ubiquitous Dungeons and Dragons) and non-class based (GURPS, Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Shadowrun).

Class based systems are by far the easiest to generate content for, if you know the level you know the abilities. It is no surprise then that it is the format that most easily lends itself to modules and premade adventures (the most similar aspect to computer gaming)

Non-Class Based systems are extremely flexible and diverse allowing the players to develop their characters over a period of time as their whim dictates. However, the down side is that you can never confidently design content for them.

 

It would appear that SWTOR clearly designed their system around the class system and that is fine. Afterall you have to have a balance. But, there is the very real sense that a character should be able to have more flexibility. I think this is mostly due to engagement with the story, I always feel like a Bounty Hunter, not a powertech or mercenary.

 

Afterall, if you they can drop their specialisation so easily when it defines a core aspect of their character, the role. Why should they find it so hard to change a secondary ability set?

 

So, how does this apply to SWTOR and an AC swap feature?

Taken by itself an AC swap opens up a little more flexibility in how I decide to play any specific character at any given time.

 

My main is a Powertech who levelled as a Tank (Shield Tech), but spends most of their time running dailies as DPS (Advanced Prototype). This was a significant change in role that required the acquisition of a full set of gear with offhand and relearning a new rotation of abilities.

If you want to justify why they can't have access to both specialisations at the same time it's about having the right equipment... and I just can't see how this is any different when talking about the AC.

 

I would like to think there is a chance in the lifespan of SWTOR that additional ACs could be introduced to broaden the range of playstyles.

I know I'm probably not the only player out there that would like to be able to have a less gadget orientated Bounty Hunter that uses proper melee weapons for combat (think Torian and Akaavi, both Mandalorians, both melee weapon wielders), without having to play as a Sith or Jedi and then just dress up in adaptive armour.

Or, a darkside Jedi that actually gets to shoot lightning from their fingertips outside of heroic moment.

I think should such an expansion become a reality it makes the use of an AC swap feature far more attractive.

 

Because at the end of the day, you still only have the one character, but they feel more like the character you want to play, and not the character Bioware allows you to play.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Vhaegrant

[LordArtemis]

Well, I appreciate the earnest replies. I think it's important to concentrate on how AC change makes us feel, pro or against, instead of arguing over semantics.

[wjrasmussen]

Well, I appreciate the earnest replies. I think it's important to concentrate on how AC change makes us feel, pro or against, instead of arguing over semantics.

I am against it. If they allow this I will never spend another penny on EA products. I will work to get others to follow suit.

[Duskrequim]

I am against it. If they allow this I will never spend another penny on EA products. I will work to get others to follow suit.

 

 

I think you said it best back on 5/17 when you stated----- "You do know that the world doesn't revolve around you?"

 

It will all come down to what is best for the game.. or what the majority of players want. Your decision to pay or not and to play or not.,.... only counts for a small part of what Bioware will look at when they make a decision.. You are but 1 person in a sea of thousands.... if you and only a few others voice that they will not like it and will quit... Bioware will look at what that means... money wise... will your loss hurt them.. or will the new revenue generated from the change counteract any loss of players and make be profitable.

[ZahirS]

I think you said it best back on 5/17 when you stated----- "You do know that the world doesn't revolve around you?"

 

It will all come down to what is best for the game.. or what the majority of players want. Your decision to pay or not and to play or not.,.... only counts for a small part of what Bioware will look at when they make a decision.. You are but 1 person in a sea of thousands.... if you and only a few others voice that they will not like it and will quit... Bioware will look at what that means... money wise... will your loss hurt them.. or will the new revenue generated from the change counteract any loss of players and make be profitable.

 

You dont understand how business works.

 

Every client is valuable even if its 1/10000000, because generally clients expect same things of a service, its the job of the company to look for what the clients really like and offer to them.

[Duskrequim]

You dont understand how business works.

 

Every client is valuable even if its 1/10000000, because generally clients expect same things of a service, its the job of the company to look for what the clients really like and offer to them.

 

 

However as a business you must also realize that you can not please everyone. So you must look at what brings in the most money and what you can do to bring in more business. If that means making a select number of customers upset and leave but in turn increases the revenue and profits you make the sacrifice. Not all customers are equal … that goes without saying for most businesses. Winning business and winning customers requires businesses be willing to lose both at times. And you must pick your spots to do the special things for special customers. But you need to know who you are targeting and not targeting, right?

 

Let’s consider some examples.

 

Are you familiar with the Costco brand? Costco is good at winning business by losing customers. Its membership model shuns consumers not willing to pay the annual membership fee. Its broad yet shallow merchandise mix loses customers desiring more choices. Costco makes these explicit choices because it believes its customers will make these sacrifices in order to gain lower prices. And those customers are Costco’s targets.

 

What about the American Apparel brand? Perhaps you have shopped with this brand. American Apparel wins business by losing customers. Its provocative advertising and its strong stance on political issues it stands for offends some consumers. American Apparel sacrifices appealing to everybody to only appeal to select customers who appreciate the brand’s unique personality. And, yes, brands do have personality.

 

Winning businesses have a common trait … a unique and different point of view. A unique personality. Losing businesses also have a common trait … a boring personality that tries to appeal to everyone and thus not creating passion from anyone. Winning business requires you to pick your spots, that is to do the special things for special customers.

 

So you have to think.... if SWTOR can be better as a game by shunning some players with a change to the Advanced Classes.... and this change would bring in more business and only affect some negatively. Then why worry what a few will do.. as your main target is to keep the game alive and thriving.. and to do that you may end up ticking off some people. But the game must go on....

[ZahirS]

However as a business you must also realize that you can not please everyone. So you must look at what brings in the most money and what you can do to bring in more business. If that means making a select number of customers upset and leave but in turn increases the revenue and profits you make the sacrifice. Not all customers are equal … that goes without saying for most businesses. Winning business and winning customers requires businesses be willing to lose both at times. And you must pick your spots to do the special things for special customers. But you need to know who you are targeting and not targeting, right?

 

Let’s consider some examples.

 

Are you familiar with the Costco brand? Costco is good at winning business by losing customers. Its membership model shuns consumers not willing to pay the annual membership fee. Its broad yet shallow merchandise mix loses customers desiring more choices. Costco makes these explicit choices because it believes its customers will make these sacrifices in order to gain lower prices. And those customers are Costco’s targets.

 

What about the American Apparel brand? Perhaps you have shopped with this brand. American Apparel wins business by losing customers. Its provocative advertising and its strong stance on political issues it stands for offends some consumers. American Apparel sacrifices appealing to everybody to only appeal to select customers who appreciate the brand’s unique personality. And, yes, brands do have personality.

 

Winning businesses have a common trait … a unique and different point of view. A unique personality. Losing businesses also have a common trait … a boring personality that tries to appeal to everyone and thus not creating passion from anyone. Winning business requires you to pick your spots, that is to do the special things for special customers.

 

So you have to think.... if SWTOR can be better as a game by shunning some players with a change to the Advanced Classes.... and this change would bring in more business and only affect some negatively. Then why worry what a few will do.. as your main target is to keep the game alive and thriving.. and to do that you may end up ticking off some people. But the game must go on....

 

Hey, you really dont know the business Win Win strategy.

 

Most of you post is negated by the fact that in business, loosing customer=loosing money.

 

You cant please everyone but you must offer quality and good price/perception to win win in the scenarios you posted:

 

Cosco sells in quantity for decent price per unit, its aimed at Shops or Households and the market is big enough you see lots of Cosco stores, they use win win strategy because they have really good logistics plus loyal customer base, that is why they give out cards to them.

 

American Appearel doesnt loose customers, they retation of customers is part of the branding process which includes selection for their clients.

 

What you view as sacrifice is just filtering customers, but the "bulk" usually stays or grows depending on the market as for SWTOR players voice their opinions here, devs filter pettitions and apply some they consider important for the players in this case Legacy perk: Advanced Class is something they are aware but havent responded to.

 

In my opinion, Advanced Class Respec will increse both profit and playability of the game, for its obvious the outcome: Longevity of the Game even if it sounds like "Free giving" or "lifting too much content" its not, I deduced this by the simple thing on a player's mind: Having fun playing different stories, most players like to try different character because of the sotry of each class not just for a Advanced class, Bioware statistics should prove this.

 

By Allowing Advanced Class respec, mroe people inherently will try other classess because they can move more freely in each class even if its a "notion" it will prove me right.

[ZahirS]

Sorry dont know why I rambled there but check the last part of my post. Edited May 28, 2014 by ZahirS

[Duskrequim]

Sorry dont know why I rambled there but check the last part of my post.

 

I agree... I would love to be able to swap between gunslinger or sab.. etc.... However I think it would be just as cool if they opened up all 5 of a classes skill trees so that player can create completly new hybrid builds... Imagine the combinations that might occur if players had access to all 5 different trees and could pick from them. Maybe redo them so that each level unlock can allow you to access all other levels.. For instance..

 

you are a gunslinger... you choose to put your first 3 points into Saboteur tree to get Cunning.. then 2 more points into Sharpshooter for Sharpshooter... Typically if you do 5 points into 1 tree you unlock the next rung of skills... but with the new system it doesnt have to be spent in the same tree anymore. Now that you have 5 spent .. you unlock all the second rungs of all the skill trees. The only time a person would have to stick with a skill tree to get the unlock would be for skills that specifically unlock the next tier like Sharp aim unlocks Charged Aim.... but the same concept.. each time you spend so many skill points you unlock the next tier regardless if you spent all those skills in the same tree or not. This would completely redesign the skill trees in a way that might see some pretty amazing hybrids.. or create unique playstyles for each person. No more deciding which tree to max out or wishing you didnt have to take crap skill so and so because it was the only way to unlock the next tier.... This could work better than just unlocking changing AC

[ZahirS]

I agree... I would love to be able to swap between gunslinger or sab.. etc.... However I think it would be just as cool if they opened up all 5 of a classes skill trees so that player can create completly new hybrid builds... Imagine the combinations that might occur if players had access to all 5 different trees and could pick from them. Maybe redo them so that each level unlock can allow you to access all other levels.. For instance..

 

you are a gunslinger... you choose to put your first 3 points into Saboteur tree to get Cunning.. then 2 more points into Sharpshooter for Sharpshooter... Typically if you do 5 points into 1 tree you unlock the next rung of skills... but with the new system it doesnt have to be spent in the same tree anymore. Now that you have 5 spent .. you unlock all the second rungs of all the skill trees. The only time a person would have to stick with a skill tree to get the unlock would be for skills that specifically unlock the next tier like Sharp aim unlocks Charged Aim.... but the same concept.. each time you spend so many skill points you unlock the next tier regardless if you spent all those skills in the same tree or not. This would completely redesign the skill trees in a way that might see some pretty amazing hybrids.. or create unique playstyles for each person. No more deciding which tree to max out or wishing you didnt have to take crap skill so and so because it was the only way to unlock the next tier.... This could work better than just unlocking changing AC

 

Thats going to far I think because it completely breaks balance, Advanced class respec should be able to unlock and swap to either advanced class not both.

[Duskrequim]

Thats going to far I think because it completely breaks balance, Advanced class respec should be able to unlock and swap to either advanced class not both.

 

 

ahh but one must prove it breaks balance.... You still only have so many skill points to use... and you would still only be able to unlock 1 top skill with this option just like you do know.... It would be interesting to see what could be done....