ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Ratajack]

Yes, I have not seen ANYTHING in this thread to make me think a AC change is bad.... To me, the reasons many give are out of their own fears. Show me, or anyone that wants a AC change, PROOF or FACTS of how this will somehow ruin the game. If the system is abused, it would be annoying at most.... Why some restrictions should be made. However, there is no good reason I can see to not allow anyone to correct a past mistake.

 

you are the same bunch of people that did not want species changes or body type changes, guess what, they are here and BW makes money off it. Players that wanted it are happy, it was a win win, except for the people that play this game in total fear that a new feature to make customers happier, will destroy your experience. NOT A ONE OF YOU have yet to explain this out..... Its just fear, nothing more.

 

You will lose this fight, the AC change will come, question is when, not if.....

 

You now demand PROOF as a way to justify you're dismissal of the reasonable concerns that people have.

 

Let me turn the tables around. You provide PROOF that allowing class changes will have NO negative impact on the game and I will be happy to try to find proof that it will have negative impacts.

 

I can say that until you can provide PROOF that allowing class changes will have no negative impact on the game, there are no reasonable justifications for allowing class changes other than people not wanting to put the effort into leveling that new class and wanting to be handed that new class for no effort. Effort spent leveling a sorcerer does not equal effort spent leveling an assassin, as an example.

 

In before the "I asked you first" defense.

[Ratajack]

I do not think I could support a base class change.... If they keep it to only the AC, so a Jedi Knight Sentinel, can only switch the a JK Guardian, for example, at least the stories and romances do not get affected, as well as all the companions remaining the same. The way this game set up its classes, AC changes look logical, without a big impact to story progression, however, that same story progression, would make base class changes a disaster, IMO.

 

i do not suspect, RP'ers would be on board with AC changes.... I am curious though to where that community does stand.

 

from my perspective, I want people to be able to correct past mistakes, after already pulling time, effort and money, real or in game, into a toon, they discovered does not play as they wish, or to a style they have developed.

 

In the end really, as long as new features to not impact my game play in a negative fashion, I am on the side of change is good, it shows the game evolving into something more, better or different, and sets it apart from the others.

 

You will never see a Jedi Knight Sentinel in the game, They DO NOT exist. There are Jedi Sentinels and Jedi Guardians, but NO Jedi Knight Sentinels. If you wish to say that I am wrong, the prove it by providing a screen shot of either a guild roster, a /who or even a targeted character with the class Jedi Knight Sentinel.

[Khevar]

You will never see a Jedi Knight Sentinel in the game, They DO NOT exist. There are Jedi Sentinels and Jedi Guardians, but NO Jedi Knight Sentinels. If you wish to say that I am wrong, the prove it by providing a screen shot of either a guild roster, a /who or even a targeted character with the class Jedi Knight Sentinel.

This is silly. Are you being argumentative just for the sake of stirring the waters and driving this discussion off-topic?

 

It is clear from reading Themanthatisi's post about "Jedi Knight Sentinel" and "JK Guardian", that he was referring to the Jedi Sentinel and Jedi Guardian and simply mis-typed it.

[Ratajack]

This is silly. Are you being argumentative just for the sake of stirring the waters and driving this discussion off-topic?

 

It is clear from reading Themanthatisi's post about "Jedi Knight Sentinel" and "JK Guardian", that he was referring to the Jedi Sentinel and Jedi Guardian and simply mis-typed it.

 

I may be wrong, but I do not think that is the case, as many have contended that sages and sorcerers are both inquisitors and sentinels and guardians are both Jedi Knights, etc.

 

Is it not possible, or even probable, that these continued references to Jedi Knight Sentinels, Jedi Knight Guardians, Sith Warrior Juggernauts and Sith Warrior Marauders are intentional and an attempt to try to muddy the fact that they are all different classes.

[LordArtemis]

Neither side can provide proof, and proof is not required since it is unlikely that the folks participating in the thread are the ones that make the decision to add it to the game or not.

 

It still comes back to reasonable reasons pro and con that have been presented in the thread. Hopefully the discussion can continue without all the ridiculous drama.

[Khevar]

I may be wrong, but I do not think that is the case, as many have contended that sages and sorcerers are both inquisitors and sentinels and guardians are both Jedi Knights, etc.

 

Is it not possible, or even probable, that these continued references to Jedi Knight Sentinels, Jedi Knight Guardians, Sith Warrior Juggernauts and Sith Warrior Marauders are intentional and an attempt to try to muddy the fact that they are all different classes.

Odd way to look at it.

 

I'm personally not in favor of an AC switch, but even then I've always viewed the Sentinel and Guardian as two variants of the Jedi Knight. And I'm reminded of this fact every time I go to a torhead skill tree and use the menu:

 

Jedi Knight -> Jedi Guardian | Jedi Sentinel

 

Seeing as how they share the same story line, and have the same companions, I've always considered them to be two sides of the same thing. In fact, it wouldn't be too off base to say:

 

Jedi Knight - Sentinel

Jedi Knight - Guardian

 

Edit: I should clarify -- by "not in favor of" I really mean "I don't see that it's necessary, but I also don't believe it would be that bad either"

Edited May 31, 2013 by Khevar

[Ratajack]

Odd way to look at it.

 

I'm personally not in favor of an AC switch, but even then I've always viewed the Sentinel and Guardian as two variants of the Jedi Knight. And I'm reminded of this fact every time I go to a torhead skill tree and use the menu:

 

Jedi Knight -> Jedi Guardian | Jedi Sentinel

 

Seeing as how they share the same story line, and have the same companions, I've always considered them to be two sides of the same thing. In fact, it wouldn't be too off base to say:

 

Jedi Knight - Sentinel

Jedi Knight - Guardian

 

Edit: I should clarify -- by "not in favor of" I really mean "I don't see that it's necessary, but I also don't believe it would be that bad either"

 

They may stem from the same trunk, but at the moment of separation, they cease to be the same class. This is evident in the differing types and numbers of weapons used, in some cases the armor types, the differing skills learned, rolls performed, style of play (such as ranged versus melee) and the fact that even the shared skills differ in function in many cases.

[Quraswren]

SNIP....

 

I can say that until you can provide PROOF that allowing class changes will have no negative impact on the game, there are no reasonable justifications for allowing class changes other than people not wanting to put the effort into leveling that new class and wanting to be handed that new class for no effort. Effort spent leveling a sorcerer does not equal effort spent leveling an assassin, as an example.

 

In before the "I asked you first" defense.

 

I can provide you with a bit of proof that an AC change will add no new negative affects to what you already suffer.

• There are currently max level AC's in the game of all possible AC's.
  
• -
  
• There are new and old players with max level AC's currently running around in the game at some point or another. (Given they log off and then on to the other AC)
  
• -
  
• There are new and old players every day/week/month reaching make level in every AC.
  
• -
  
• All those players and all those AC's are constantly changing over as you cannot play any one toon at the same time. (you can only log onto one AC at a time)
  
• -
  
• Any number of individuals can log off and swap to any AC in the game at any time they choose and at this point in the game there are thousands with multiple toons, Many with multiple AC already and many with multiples of the same class and both AC's already.
  

 

Since all of that is true:

 

If AC changing was to be allowed with limitations, you have nothing more than a different avenue of meeting some random gamers second AC of the same class already.

 

However, The difference is an AC swap purchase removes one AC entirely. They are giving up one AC entirely for another one with no chance at that given time (given ac swapping limitations) to have both toons available just by logging out and over to another toon.

 

As it stands now, you have more negatives of people jumping to their other AC then you would ever have with someone giving up an AC for a new one even at max level.

 

(I wrote that kinda fast so I may need to edit for grammer/ spelling or just cause it doesn't flow well.)

Edited May 31, 2013 by Quraswren

[gorstram]

So, the Species Change and Barber Shop mentioned in the Dulfy interview from months ago are finally realities. That's a good sign! It means the devs are actually serious about their "Yeah, we'd like to do that" statements.

 

In that same interview, it was mentioned that Advanced Class changes were also on the table and likely to happen. I'm curious if the community team can update us on whether there's any time-table for when this will be implemented.

 

Ideally, I'd love it to be a switch you can unlock, then flip any time — finally allowing me to Tank & Heal with one character.

 

But in reality I'm sure it will cost like 6000 Cartel Coins to unlock it, then another 2000 Cartel Coins every time you switch (discounted 3.2% for subscribers, of course) with a 2 month cooldown. Oh well, what can you do? As a start, I'd be happy just to have the option in-game, in any form.

 

So! Does BioWare have any upcoming plans for this that can be shared with us?

 

~~~

 

Edit: While I am proud of how much you are feeding the Dark Side with your blind anger and hate, and vehement vows of impossibility, let me remind you of (source):

 

 

We got the Species part. That makes the AC part also have a lot of credibility.

 

So anyway, any ETA or news, community team?

 

Sorry, bud, but it'll never happen. The implications stem mostly from gear. I'll use Juggernaut versus Marauder as an example. Those two classes enter an instance, and while they share certain slots, they do not share armor. The mara usually gets the medium, and the jugg gets the heavy stuff. If you introduce AC swapping, the mara will start rolling need on the heavy stuff for his "off spec," and vice versa with the jugg rolling on offhand str sabers, etc. There would be powertechs rolling on offhand blasters, mercenaries rolling on shields, cats and dogs living and loving together, all of the worst stuff of the apocalypse.

[Ratajack]

I can provide you with a bit of proof that an AC change will add no new negative affects to what you already suffer.

• There are currently max level AC's in the game of all possible AC's.
  
• -
  
• There are new and old players with max level AC's currently running around in the game at some point or another. (Given they log off and then on to the other AC)
  
• -
  
• There are new and old players every day/week/month reaching make level in every AC.
  
• -
  
• All those players and all those AC's are constantly changing over as you cannot play any one toon at the same time. (you can only log onto one AC at a time)
  
• -
  
• Any number of individuals can log off and swap to any AC in the game at any time they choose and at this point in the game there are thousands with multiple toons, Many with multiple AC already and many with multiples of the same class and both AC's already.
  

 

Since all of that is true:

 

If AC changing was to be allowed with limitations, you have nothing more than a different avenue of meeting some random gamers second AC of the same class already.

 

However, The difference is an AC swap purchase removes one AC entirely. They are giving up one AC entirely for another one with no chance at that given time (given ac swapping limitations) to have both toons available just by logging out and over to another toon.

 

As it stands now, you have more negatives of people jumping to their other AC then you would ever have with someone giving up an AC for a new one even at max level.

 

(I wrote that kinda fast so I may need to edit for grammer/ spelling or just cause it doesn't flow well.)

 

Those people you mention that have characters with differing AC's who can log off one character and log onto a different AC actually PUT THE EFFORT INTO LEVELING AND LEARNING each of the classes they have and not asking that any of them be handed to them.

 

Your example is no proof at all.

[Quraswren]

Those people you mention that have characters with differing AC's who can log off one character and log onto a different AC actually PUT THE EFFORT INTO LEVELING AND LEARNING each of the classes they have and not asking that any of them be handed to them.

 

Your example is no proof at all.

 

Sure it, just cause you don't like doesn't mean its not.

 

Since you wan to argue how good a player is just by levleing, I'll counter it.

 

There are just as many that level a toon from 1 -55 and are still terrible. Leveling is by no means a measure of how good someone is.

 

Your example is weak there.

 

If you want to argue that someone put effort to level a toon, then leveling any AC is putting in effort and since we don't want that effort to go to waste on a toon someone doesn't like or play anymore.

 

Why not breath new life into that toon by allowing an AC swap with limitations? Doing so puts you and no one else aganist any more bad players or grief than you have to already deal with in game now.

 

So far other than your "Feelings" on the matter, you have no solid argument.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Quraswren

[Khevar]

They may stem from the same trunk, but at the moment of separation, they cease to be the same class. This is evident in the differing types and numbers of weapons used, in some cases the armor types, the differing skills learned, rolls performed, style of play (such as ranged versus melee) and the fact that even the shared skills differ in function in many cases.

Of course they are a different class. But they're BOTH Jedi Knights, aren't they?

 

It seems as though you were challenging Themanthatisi on "Jedi Knight Sentinel" and "Jedi Knight Guardian" as though he were trying to subliminally convince readers that AC switching is okay, because they both have "Jedi Knight" in it.

 

What the two ACs are called is irrelevant to weather or not AC switching should be included.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Khevar

[Khevar]

... If you introduce AC swapping, the mara will start rolling need on the heavy stuff for his "off spec," and vice versa with the jugg rolling on offhand str sabers, etc. There would be powertechs rolling on offhand blasters, mercenaries rolling on shields, cats and dogs living and loving together, all of the worst stuff of the apocalypse.

This is a really good point. There are already many posts on the forums with people frustrated with loot distribution, "needing for companions", etc.

 

I believe this would get worse with people needing for the opposite AC.

[Ratajack]

Sure it, just cause you don't like doesn't mean its not.

 

Since you wan to argue how good a player is just by levleing, I'll counter it.

 

There are just as many that level a toon from 1 -55 and are still terrible. Leveling is by no means a measure of how good someone is.

 

Your example is weak there.

 

If you want to argue that someone put effort to level a toon, then leveling any AC is putting in effort and since we don't want that effort to go to waste on a toon someone doesn't like or play anymore.

 

Why not breath new life into that toon by allowing an AC swap with limitations? Doing so puts you and no one else under any more bad players or grief than you have to already deal with in game now.

 

So far other than your "Feelings" on the matter, you have no solid argument.

 

Even if the person is not "leet" at playing a class they ACTUALLY leveled, they still LEVELED it and did not have it handed to them.

 

I know there are 55's who are not leet, but allowing AC swaps would likely increase the number of people who have no idea how to play their class, as many of them would be new to the "new" class. Increasing a negative is in itself a negative, and thus would be a negative affect on the game.

[Ratajack]

This is a really good point. There are already many posts on the forums with people frustrated with loot distribution, "needing for companions", etc.

 

I believe this would get worse with people needing for the opposite AC.

 

Those wishing to see class changes will dismiss this by claiming that we already have "loot ninjas".

[Quraswren]

Even if the person is not "leet" at playing a class they ACTUALLY leveled, they still LEVELED it and did not have it handed to them.

 

I know there are 55's who are not leet, but allowing AC swaps would likely increase the number of people who have no idea how to play their class, as many of them would be new to the "new" class. Increasing a negative is in itself a negative, and thus would be a negative affect on the game.

 

Sorry but an AC swap is not getting anyone handed anything, by your own example they put in effort to level that class. IT should not be waste just cause they didn't enjoy it at endgame. They put in little effort anyway - no matter the AC or in game event.

 

There are already tons of people that do not know how to play there class. Gamers like to label them as "bads"

 

They will likely never change and will always be around. We have all been around them.

 

Good players however are also out there and should they dislike their current AC, they will not only put in effort to know the new AC, they will also be the ones to have gear waiting and ready for new AC. The are what we call good players.

 

So no, there is no more negative than you already have to deal with in game now.

 

Again, you present a rather weak argument. It's an argument but it holds little water.

[Spatology]

Just level up another character. No changes needed.

[Quraswren]

Just level up another character. No changes needed.

 

Gamers have done that. It's not all that fun when you level a class just as a different AC,

 

The major game play experience that makes this game amazing is diminished in SWTOR once you have seen the class stories once as well as the side quests.

 

The minor ac differences under one class doesn't have enough affect to make it all that enjoyable for many it seems to do it a second time. I've done it. It was not all that fun.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Quraswren

[Folian]

I have played a smuggler gunslinger since the beginning, which I thought sounded cool, and it was for a while with the cover and 2 guns.

But now I'm starting to real tired of being an immovable turret on the battlefield and alway rolling into the wrong cover (target not in line of sight!), and I feel useless in pvp.

Just tired of that advanced class in general.

But I made a agent operative and soon found out that the fast moving medium-close range was by far better suitet to my play style.

 

But I have played on that smuggler since the start of the game (from the launch day) with all my friends so we got this cool group of ours, so starting a new smuggler just to change the adv class is not even an option .

 

So it would really save the game for me if I just could change the adv class and get the fun that I'm meant to have with this guy.

 

Really hope that this comes soon.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Folian

[LydMekk]

Newah!

[tanktest]

IS it even being looked as being done ?.

 

I thought a long while back they said it would never happen ?.

[LordArtemis]

Those people you mention that have characters with differing AC's who can log off one character and log onto a different AC actually PUT THE EFFORT INTO LEVELING AND LEARNING each of the classes they have and not asking that any of them be handed to them.

 

Your example is no proof at all.

 

I'd be curious to know how not physically leveling in that AC would cause harm to the game....

[Hizoka]

I'd be curious to know how not physically leveling in that AC would cause harm to the game....

 

if you have to ask that then you are a very ignorant player.

 

When you put effort leveling a character you learn how the character work, why certain skills go in certain orders. Being handed a 55 without learning how to play it will make a bad player even worse. As it is people for the most part are bad, however you give a bad player a max level toon and you instantly get someone who is far less useful then a companion in starter gear.

 

There is 0 good that comes from giving anyone a max level toon for no reason. Sorry but just because you level a sorc does not mean you have and clue what so ever on how to play an assassin.

 

At level 1 you pick the story you want to see, at level 10 you actually pick one of the 2 classes that go to that story. You do not pick your class at level 1. A sorcerer is not the same as an assassin, you should never be allowed to go from one to another. Its no different what so ever and no less stupid then someone in WoW wanting to have a max level rogue just because they leveled a priest. If you cannot understand that then i am shocked you were smart enough to get to max level in the first place.

[Hizoka]

IS it even being looked as being done ?.

 

I thought a long while back they said it would never happen ?.

 

they did, and i think EAware is smart enough to know that if they allowed it they would lost the majority of the subs they have left, and regardless what the F2P crowd thinks if this game doesn't keep near 500k+ subbs it will die off as subs are really keep the game going. Investors want secure income not the up and down spirts the cartel market can provide.

 

As you can see the "huttsbane" gear set has not made any money if it had they would not of cut the cost in half.

[Jedi_Titus]

This is one of the stupidest suggestions. This is the epitome of laziness.

 

You know whatever, do this Bioware. The people who are stupid enough to pay for this don't have the drive to level a different class, they obviously don't have any drive to become better at the class they already have.

 

This will only make Bioware money and make the lazy players regret their decision after the Fotm class they rolled is nerfed.

 

I can see some people using this legitimately, but seriously if you want to play a different class that bad just level with it.

 

Nothing comes that easy, I can't get a masters in Psychology then one day say hey I want to be a rocket scientist I'll pay 50,000 dollars and put me as the leading scientist on the project.

 

I love you all