ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Khevar]

if you have to ask that then you are a very ignorant player.

 

When you put effort leveling a character you learn how the character work, why certain skills go in certain orders. Being handed a 55 without learning how to play it will make a bad player even worse. As it is people for the most part are bad, however you give a bad player a max level toon and you instantly get someone who is far less useful then a companion in starter gear.

 

There is 0 good that comes from giving anyone a max level toon for no reason. Sorry but just because you level a sorc does not mean you have and clue what so ever on how to play an assassin.

 

At level 1 you pick the story you want to see, at level 10 you actually pick one of the 2 classes that go to that story. You do not pick your class at level 1. A sorcerer is not the same as an assassin, you should never be allowed to go from one to another. Its no different what so ever and no less stupid then someone in WoW wanting to have a max level rogue just because they leveled a priest. If you cannot understand that then i am shocked you were smart enough to get to max level in the first place.

Have you noticed that this same argument holds true for a skill tree respec?

 

As an example, my second level 50 was my Sage. I had exclusively leveled as a Hybrid TK/Balance spec and was doing okay, but not great. Right about that time I joined a guild and they were short healers, so I agreed to respec and give healing a try.

 

I was TERRIBLE at it. Truly terrible. I couldn't even keep Qyzen Fess alive during Ilum dailies. I came to these forums, asked for advice, got confused, tried different things, and slowly, over time, figured out how to be a not terribad healer. Eventually, once I got the hang of it and got really comfortable, I started to heal operations and for a while acted as one of my guild's main healers.

 

Had there been an AC swap, and had I a wild hair up my fundamental aperture, and had I decided to switch into a Shadow Tank, I would have had the exact same experience. I would have started out all thumbs, gotten into trouble, came to the forums, got advice, and eventually figured it out.

 

So why is one okay and the other isn't?

 

At least the point about loot ninjas makes sense to me. It can only get worse when players start rolling need on gear that doesn't match their AC.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Khevar

[branmakmuffin]

This is one of the stupidest suggestions. This is the epitome of laziness. You know whatever, do this Bioware. The people who are stupid enough to pay for this don't have the drive to level a different class, they obviously don't have any drive to become better at the class they already have.

Right, because it takes a lot of drive to play a computer game.

[BennyKrak]

if you have to ask that then you are a very ignorant player.

 

When you put effort leveling a character you learn how the character work, why certain skills go in certain orders. Being handed a 55 without learning how to play it will make a bad player even worse. As it is people for the most part are bad, however you give a bad player a max level toon and you instantly get someone who is far less useful then a companion in starter gear.

 

There is 0 good that comes from giving anyone a max level toon for no reason. Sorry but just because you level a sorc does not mean you have and clue what so ever on how to play an assassin.

 

At level 1 you pick the story you want to see, at level 10 you actually pick one of the 2 classes that go to that story. You do not pick your class at level 1. A sorcerer is not the same as an assassin, you should never be allowed to go from one to another. Its no different what so ever and no less stupid then someone in WoW wanting to have a max level rogue just because they leveled a priest. If you cannot understand that then i am shocked you were smart enough to get to max level in the first place.

 

By your logic then, if I have a max level Sentinel AND Guardian, I shouldn't be allowed to switch the AC's on both of them, even though I know how to play each class and put the time and effort in to level both of them and learn each AC ? - note I'm not being given a 'free max level character'

 

Besides, someone might have a level 55 Sentinel and a level 55 Juggernaut and want to switch the Sentinel to a Guardian so as to be able to play the mirror AC of their main on the other faction. Do you assume that because they don't already have a level 55 Guardian that they are unable to play it? Or are you just ignorant?

 

In any case, I wouldn't mind a one-time advanced class change. The main reason (for me), being that in hindsight I would have rather made my Guardian a female and my Sentinel a male - seeing as there is no gender change available (and most likely never will be due to companion quest lines / affection), the only way I could possibly achieve this is by switching my male Guardian to a Sentinel, and my female Sentinel to a Guardian.

[Hizoka]

By your logic then, if I have a max level Sentinel AND Guardian, I shouldn't be allowed to switch the AC's on both of them, even though I know how to play each class and put the time and effort in to level both of them and learn each AC ? - note I'm not being given a 'free max level character'

 

Besides, someone might have a level 55 Sentinel and a level 55 Juggernaut and want to switch the Sentinel to a Guardian so as to be able to play the mirror AC of their main on the other faction. Do you assume that because they don't already have a level 55 Guardian that they are unable to play it? Or are you just ignorant?

 

In any case, I wouldn't mind a one-time advanced class change. The main reason (for me), being that in hindsight I would have rather made my Guardian a female and my Sentinel a male - seeing as there is no gender change available (and most likely never will be due to companion quest lines / affection), the only way I could possibly achieve this is by switching my male Guardian to a Sentinel, and my female Sentinel to a Guardian.

 

no you should not be allowed to swap them. If you have a male sentinel and want a female then reroll. Sorry you will never "guilt" me into saying you shouldn't have to reroll. I was in the alpha and beta stages of this game, i also did not quit when my server populations died before the mergers. I have seen the jedi Knight story 18 times, the Sith Warrior story 9 times the trooper story 4 times the bounty hunter story 5 times, the operative story twice and the smuggler story 4 times. All because i was a true tester of the game and had to start over every build, and when my servers died after the game went live i simply started over on a new server. I did not QQ that is should be given a free character i just moved on. However i am not some lazy self centered pile of crap that thinks because i pay 15 bucks a month i should be handed everything on a silver platter. I have rerolled a toon i have had at 50 and in full BiS gear simply because i didn't like the eye color, granted that can be changed now.

 

I have leveled everything in the game more then once but the Inquisitor. I will never ask for a class change because a class change is a choice and its a choice you need to deal with. I do not care if you feel entitled, you need to be held accountable for crap sometimes. It takes less then 70 hours of played time to level a toon to max level with 0 assistance. This is an mmo its ment to be played for years not days. Taking 3 days of play time to make a new toon is NOTHING. Go talk to the real old gamers of wow they will tall you they have over years worth of played time on some of their characters and the though as asking for a class change never crossed their mind. Also if you really have played a Guardian and a Sentinel you would know the play styles are completely different, so swapping them would be a detriment to the player doing so not to mention they require different gear.

 

Sometimes too much freedom is just bad for a game. Choice is a big theme of this game and choices should matter. If you got to 50+ and desided you did not like your toon make a new one, do not cry and throw a tantrum and demand to swap.

 

If you are not willing to dedicate even the small amount of time to making a new toon then odds are you are not going to keep playing the game anyways so why hurt the overall community, just quit and be done with it. This entitled attitude of the childish gamers now is absurd. If you were to buy a car and keep it for 6 months you cannot take it back to the dealership and say hey i don't like this model gimme a new one, they would laugh at you.

 

Just because your soccer mom gives into ever little whim it does not mean the rest of the world will too.

[Jedi_Titus]

Right, because it takes a lot of drive to play a computer game.

 

Exactly

[Khevar]

no you should not be allowed to swap them. If you have a male sentinel and want a female then reroll. Sorry you will never "guilt" me into saying you shouldn't have to reroll. I was in the alpha and beta stages of this game, i also did not quit when my server populations died before the mergers. I have seen the jedi Knight story 18 times, the Sith Warrior story 9 times the trooper story 4 times the bounty hunter story 5 times, the operative story twice and the smuggler story 4 times. All because i was a true tester of the game and had to start over every build, and when my servers died after the game went live i simply started over on a new server. I did not QQ that is should be given a free character i just moved on. However i am not some lazy self centered pile of crap that thinks because i pay 15 bucks a month i should be handed everything on a silver platter. I have rerolled a toon i have had at 50 and in full BiS gear simply because i didn't like the eye color, granted that can be changed now.

 

I have leveled everything in the game more then once but the Inquisitor. I will never ask for a class change because a class change is a choice and its a choice you need to deal with. I do not care if you feel entitled, you need to be held accountable for crap sometimes. It takes less then 70 hours of played time to level a toon to max level with 0 assistance. This is an mmo its ment to be played for years not days. Taking 3 days of play time to make a new toon is NOTHING. Go talk to the real old gamers of wow they will tall you they have over years worth of played time on some of their characters and the though as asking for a class change never crossed their mind. Also if you really have played a Guardian and a Sentinel you would know the play styles are completely different, so swapping them would be a detriment to the player doing so not to mention they require different gear.

 

Sometimes too much freedom is just bad for a game. Choice is a big theme of this game and choices should matter. If you got to 50+ and desided you did not like your toon make a new one, do not cry and throw a tantrum and demand to swap.

 

If you are not willing to dedicate even the small amount of time to making a new toon then odds are you are not going to keep playing the game anyways so why hurt the overall community, just quit and be done with it. This entitled attitude of the childish gamers now is absurd. If you were to buy a car and keep it for 6 months you cannot take it back to the dealership and say hey i don't like this model gimme a new one, they would laugh at you.

 

Just because your soccer mom gives into ever little whim it does not mean the rest of the world will too.

Maybe try again, without insulting, condescending, or patronizing, if that's even possible for you to do.

[Ratajack]

Sorry but an AC swap is not getting anyone handed anything, by your own example they put in effort to level that class. IT should not be waste just cause they didn't enjoy it at endgame. They put in little effort anyway - no matter the AC or in game event.

 

There are already tons of people that do not know how to play there class. Gamers like to label them as "bads"

 

They will likely never change and will always be around. We have all been around them.

 

Good players however are also out there and should they dislike their current AC, they will not only put in effort to know the new AC, they will also be the ones to have gear waiting and ready for new AC. The are what we call good players.

 

So no, there is no more negative than you already have to deal with in game now.

 

Again, you present a rather weak argument. It's an argument but it holds little water.

 

NO. A player leveled a sorcerer, for example. That player did not level an assassin. Allowing class changes would hand that player an assassin for nothing. They did not put any effort into an assassin.

[LordArtemis]

if you have to ask that then.....

 

I have to ask because respec presents the same problems and the same tired uninformed arguments...it is likely the reasons given are incredulous, as your post clearly indicates.

 

Not to mention the inability to make your point without insulting someone directly and breaking forum rules.

 

I'm sure someone has a reply that is actually not filled with recycled fallacies or predatory surreptitious diatribe.

Edited June 1, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Hizoka]

I have to ask because respec presents the same problems and the same tired uninformed arguments...it is likely the reasons given are incredulous, as your post clearly indicates.

 

Not to mention the inability to make your point without insulting someone directly and breaking forum rules.

 

I'm sure someone has a reply that is actually not filled with recycled fallacies or predatory surreptitious diatribe.

 

the reasons have been given time again and again. You simply do not want to hear them because you want something for nothing. So not matter what you will never think there is a good reason you shouldn't be handed something for not earning it.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Hizoka

[Xeperi]

Again, if "resistant and challenging" (as if TOR as-is is all that challenging in any event; and if you're implying that allowing AC change is tantamount to a total lack of resistance and challenge, put that hyperbole to bed) is how you get your fun, go ahead. If "pliant and easy" is someone else's idea of fun, who are you to tell them otherwise? As stated many times, how they choose to play the game has no impact on you, other than to the extent you allow it.

 

The notion of earning something has to do with rarity which has to do with value. The value of anything decreases in proportion to any increase in supply. When you allow for people to simply switch a class (advanced class) you remove all the value from that class. Specifically you remove the value of earning your way up in that class. So it does have an impact on me. If I have a level 55 Jugg without free class switch it means I earned it, it has more value. If I have a level 55 jugg WITH free class switch, it means I merely leveled a Sith Warrior to 55 and might not even know how to play Jugg. The value is removed or at least greatly lessened. It means that the hours and hours I put into leveling an advanced class are made that much less valuable because anyone can instantly have the same advanced class at the same level without putting that time in.

 

Its like saying the VALUE (the quality that affects ALL users of a thing) of a Lexus would remain the same if everyone was able to trade in their Dodge and get the Lexus with no additional cost. It wouldn't remasin the same and all Lexus owners would be adversely affected.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Xeperi

[Xeperi]

Again, rather than argue for advanced class switching, why not push for a tier above advanced class, that you would get at 50 or 55? The argument for advanced class switching as it stands now is really an argument for a recycling of what we already have. Demand better and more.

 

EDIT: If you REALLY want that advanced class switch, the only way I can ever see there being anything like a consensus on the matter is if it involved an xp penalty. I would not be against some form of xp bank. In other words, being able to dissolve old toons at a cost of 50-75% xp. So the remaining xp would go into a bank that you could use to simply make an auto-level 20 character.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Xeperi

[branmakmuffin]

The notion of earning something has to do with rarity which has to do with value. The value of anything decreases in proportion to any increase in supply.

"Earning." You do realize we are talking about a game, here, not the Medal of Honor?

 

When you allow for people to simply switch a class (advanced class) you remove all the value from that class. Specifically you remove the value of earning your way up in that class. So it does have an impact on me. If I have a level 55 Jugg without free class switch it means I earned it, it has more value.

It's a character class. In a computer game. You (and others) have lost sight of that.

 

If I have a level 55 jugg WITH free class switch, it means I merely leveled a Sith Warrior to 55 and might not even know how to play Jugg. The value is removed or at least greatly lessened. It means that the hours and hours I put into leveling an advanced class are made that much less valuable because anyone can instantly have the same advanced class at the same level without putting that time in.

You have not established that your hours leveling a Juggernaut have any value beyond some ill-conceived sense of pride you may feel regarding all the "hard work" you put into playing a game. Again, the only way AC change would affect you is to the extent you allow it to bother you.

 

EDIT: If you REALLY want that advanced class switch, the only way I can ever see there being anything like a consensus on the matter is if it involved an xp penalty. I would not be against some form of xp bank. In other words, being able to dissolve old toons at a cost of 50-75% xp. So the remaining xp would go into a bank that you could use to simply make an auto-level 20 character.

We don't need any consensus. If BWEA thinks it's worth it to implement it (for some huge CC cost), they will.

Edited June 1, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Ratajack]

"Earning." You do realize we are talking about a game, here, not the Medal of Honor?

 

It makes no difference what is earned, or where it is earned. That something is still EARNED.

 

 

It's a character class. In a computer game. You (and others) have lost sight of that.

 

Glad to see that you recognize that they are different classes and therefore would be a class change.

 

You have not established that your hours leveling a Juggernaut have any value beyond some ill-conceived sense of pride you may feel regarding all the "hard work" you put into playing a game. Again, the only way AC change would affect you is to the extent you allow it to bother you.

 

It makes no difference if you think it would affect other players. There have been plenty of other players explaining exactly how allowing class changes would affect us, but many of the people wishing to handed a new class are choosing to dismiss and ignore the fact that allowing class changes WOULD affect other players. They choose instead to hide behind arguments like:

 

"It's just a computer game"

"It won't affect you and I want it, so I should have it"

"We already have 'bads' and 'ninja looting' in the game"

 

 

If it's just a game, then play the game as the devs intended it to be played instead of demanding that the devs hand you things you want, but don't want to put any effort into obtaining.

 

We've already explained and shown many times that it WOULD affect everyone if they allowed class changes.

 

The existence of players who are not "leet" and players who choose to roll on virtual pixels that someone else feels that they deserve is not a reason to add class changes.

[branmakmuffin]

Glad to see that you recognize that they are different classes and therefore would be a class change.

And you think you have scored some sort of point with this, or something? The answer is still "Who cares what someone else does with his character or his Cartel Coins?"

 

It makes no difference if you think it would affect other players.

Except that the reason I think it would not affect other players is that it would in fact not affect other players.

 

There have been plenty of other players explaining exactly how allowing class changes would affect us, but many of the people wishing to handed a new class are choosing to dismiss and ignore the fact that allowing class changes WOULD affect other players.

Just repeating the same erroneous assertion over and over will not make it any less erroneous.

 

They choose instead to hide behind arguments like:

 

"It's just a computer game"

And it's not?

 

"It won't affect you

It won't, but keep insisting otherwise if it makes you feel better.

 

and I want it so I should have it"

I don't care who wants it or who gets it. I'm content to let others play their game.

 

If it's just a game, then play the game as the devs intended it to be played instead of demanding that the devs hand you things you want, but don't want to put any effort into obtaining.

Oh, the effort. Sir Edmund Hillary would be so proud. If "the devs" make a change to the game, then obviously that's what they intend. So if they do allow AC changes, you should be content to play the game as "the devs" intend.

 

We've already explained and shown many times that it WOULD affect everyone if they allowed class changes.

And they amount to nothing more than "I wouldn't like because I wouldn't like it," As I stated a while back, that's not a worthless reason, but it's no more compelling than "I like it because I like it."

 

The existence of players who are not "leet" and players who choose to roll on virtual pixels that someone else feels that they deserve is not a reason to add class changes.

No, the reason to add it would be that it brings more money into the game. I would not pay for it (I would not even waste my monthly CC on it), but seeming plenty of people would.

Edited June 1, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[LordArtemis]

the reasons have been given time again and again. You simply do not want to hear them because you want something for nothing. So not matter what you will never think there is a good reason you shouldn't be handed something for not earning it.

 

I don't "want" anything of the kind. I am involved in the conversation and participating in the pros and cons. So essentially you are making a judgement call that is completely off base and telling as to your position on the issue and how you handle those that do not agree with you. I confront the pros and cons on both sides that amount to an emotional tirade that holds no constructive logic in any form.

 

This is exactly the reason why your posts like this tend to have absolutely no credibility whatsoever.

 

I have posted the sensible pros and cons AND ridiculous responses by BOTH sides in this very thread. Take some time to do some research before you simply mark someone up as the "competition" or risk your posts looking rather foolish.

 

Here is just one example in a sea of many examples....

 

The answers given, however, have amounted to...

 

Choices should matter

It would cause confusion

It would cause problems with FOTM

Classes are not similar enough to allow such drastic changes

It would cause players to not know how to play their class

 

I may have missed a few...

 

All reasonable contentions IMO, but frankly every point was answered with a counterpoint that also seemed reasonable....

 

Choices do not matter any more

There would be no confusion

Problem with FOTM already exists

Classes are too similar AC wise to not allow it

Losing levels would allow players to learn

 

The thing is there are reasonable pros and cons on both sides. There is no reason to paint one side unreasonable or petty simply because you do not agree with it. Far too many sensible posts have been made pro and con...though some folks have made silly contentions for or against it seems most have presented good arguments.

 

When you argue that your opponents arguments are petty often times your argument tends to join that group.

 

Now....looking for an answer to my question from the against folks....by someone that has some interest in actually discussing the pros and cons of the issue instead of washing their posts in predatory diatribe.

 

I would be interested in knowing how exactly a change like this "would harm the game"...as that seems a rather foolish contention, not to mention rather serving to the con side without any basic in logic.

Edited June 1, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

And they amount to nothing more than "I wouldn't like because I wouldn't like it," As I stated a while back, that's not a worthless reason, but it's no more compelling than "I like it because I like it."

 

...but a few folks have presented some compelling reasons against this sort of change.

 

It makes sense to pose that folks would be completely lost if they could simply change one AC to another since many play completely differently. There would have to be some kind of demotion to give a player the room to "learn the ropes", so to speak, for the option to make sense game wise.

 

There is no reason to punish other players that are set in their class by having folks running around that have no idea how to play the new AC they have chosen.

 

I suggested a max of two changes per character, with a demotion to either the level the change was originally made at (post storyline) or level 50, whichever is lower. The cooldown would be 30 days, and the second change would be permanent.

 

All points would be refunded, naturally, and armor would be removed to prevent folks from changing over to a medium armor AC while continuing to wear heavy armor.

 

....not to mention the point that folks would be more likely to change ACs on a whim to the FOTM instead of fighting against changes that were or are toxic to a class. This is a reason that caught my eye....the community has been active in preventing catastrophic changes to certain ACs, and that might be diminished, reducing the participation in that class altogether (and devaluing it for those that choose it).

 

I'm still on the fence on this one...ignoring the ridiculous contentions on both sides, like "the ACs are not different in any way" from the pro folks or "the change would harm the game" from the con folks, there are a few pros and cons on both sides that seem to have some validity. I think dismissing all of the cons out of hand is not a healthy way to move forward.

Edited June 1, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Floredon]

For all of you arguing against this change I would simply point you to Rift's system of souls. You can change classes completely, from a melee class to a ranged class, on the same character anytime as long as you aren't in combat. You don't have to level 2 rogues to play a melee stealth character and a ranged character on the same toon. People seem to cope just fine with this. Edited June 1, 2013 by Floredon

[Ratajack]

For all of you arguing against this change I would simply point you to Rift's system of souls. You can change classes completely, from a melee class to a ranged class, on the same character anytime as long as you aren't in combat. You don't have to level 2 rogues to play a melee stealth character and a ranged character on the same toon. People seem to cope just fine with this.

 

Was Rift's system of souls set up from the start?

 

Do you make a PERMANENT class choice in Rift as you do in this game when you choose an AC?

[LordArtemis]

Was Rift's system of souls set up from the start?

 

Do you make a PERMANENT class choice in Rift as you do in this game when you choose an AC?

 

It is a good point, and one shouldn't simply dismiss the notion that the classes were designed to be permanent choices in the first place.

 

Though one must also consider that many things in the game were designed in a way that did not support many of the recent changes....including planetary comms. However it appears they were changes and the game could arguably be better for it.

[Ratajack]

It is a good point, and one shouldn't simply dismiss the notion that the classes were designed to be permanent choices in the first place.

 

Though one must also consider that many things in the game were designed in a way that did not support many of the recent changes....including planetary comms. However it appears they were changes and the game could arguably be better for it.

 

But the game could arguably be worse for it. Let's use your example of planetary comms. Under the old system, you had to earn comms specific to a given planet and the gear you could purchase with those comms was equivalent to the content that awarded those comms. Under the new system, I can use my 55 assassin to go back to DK and farm planetary comms and then use those comms to buy the mods from corellia, a VERY substantial increase in level versus the content that awarded me those comms. Is this really an improvement?

[LordArtemis]

But the game could arguably be worse for it. Let's use your example of planetary comms. Under the old system, you had to earn comms specific to a given planet and the gear you could purchase with those comms was equivalent to the content that awarded those comms. Under the new system, I can use my 55 assassin to go back to DK and farm planetary comms and then use those comms to buy the mods from corellia, a VERY substantial increase in level versus the content that awarded me those comms. Is this really an improvement?

 

I personally think it is from a casual standpoint. This increases the appeal of the title for casual players IMO...using my own personal experience...because one can farm comms for lower alts.

 

You could still farm mods in the past for most of the planets for alts since mods did not bind. Now it is just easier to grapple with it.

 

I think it did hurt crafters a bit with comm selling, but overall the reaction has been pretty positive. There was, however, a backlash before it was implemented. So far, based on my own personal observations (which are hardly conclusive) it looks like overall it was a positive change. I am playing much more than I was in the past, since it takes quite a bit of time to farm enough comms to properly outfit alts and their companions....every 4 levels or so.

 

Not to mention I play with others more often because I run heroics with them on the planets I frequent, giving lower level players the ability to run heroics they would have otherwise had to skip in the past...I have seen this mentioned more than once.

 

So yes...I think despite the concerns it worked out quite well for the game overall for casual players and the overall appeal of the title in that respect.

 

I actually mentioned this change specifically in a post about things that have improved my game experience over the last few months...to give some perspective.... Can I tell you what made the game more fun for me in the last few months?

Edited June 1, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Khevar]

But the game could arguably be worse for it. Let's use your example of planetary comms. Under the old system, you had to earn comms specific to a given planet and the gear you could purchase with those comms was equivalent to the content that awarded those comms. Under the new system, I can use my 55 assassin to go back to DK and farm planetary comms and then use those comms to buy the mods from corellia, a VERY substantial increase in level versus the content that awarded me those comms. Is this really an improvement?

While I'm sure that change is abused that way, consider one way that it helped:

 

On my first toon, with no legacy, no alts, no high level toon to help me out, I tended to be overleveled on content. (I was also not very good, so overleveling helped.)

 

Every single planetary commendation I received was worthless, as I could only buy armoring, mods, enhancements and other pieces that were many levels below me and tended to be worse than the available drops.

 

So an entire set of rewards (planetary commendations) were rendered largely valueless on my first character, all the way to 50.

 

Had this system been in place last year, I would always have a way to purchase at-level rewards with planetary commendations.

 

So the change to the commendation system has both a good side and a bad side. For every recommended change to the game, it is important to weigh both sides, rather than just see the potential for bad and immediately dismiss it as a possibility.

[branmakmuffin]

...but a few folks have presented some compelling reasons against this sort of change.

No, they have not, Which was exactly my point.

 

There is no reason to punish other players that are set in their class by having folks running around that have no idea how to play the new AC they have chosen.

Punish? You have an overly broad definition of "punish."

 

I'm still on the fence on this one...ignoring the ridiculous contentions on both sides, like "the ACs are not different in any way" from the pro folks or "the change would harm the game" from the con folks, there are a few pros and cons on both sides that seem to have some validity. I think dismissing all of the cons out of hand is not a healthy way to move forward.

Will it help the game financially? If yes, then that's all the reason necessary. Despite all the fulminating, no one would unsub over this. The "controversy" over it is yet another tempest in a teacup.

 

Do you make a PERMANENT class choice in Rift as you do in this game when you choose an AC?

You keep saying that, as if it's some immutable law of the universe. If they changed the game to make ACs changeable, the choice wouldn't be permanent, would it?

Edited June 1, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Spatology]

They want you to use those 12 character slots, try it out. You have all the tools to acheive your dreams, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

[LordArtemis]

No, they have not, Which was exactly my point.

 

It is exactly your opinon, and one that is baseless IMO. I believe you have chosen to ignore sensible arguments against because they do not line up with your views, instead of considering them. That, IMO, does not help move the discussion forward, and actually makes things worse.

 

Punish? You have an overly broad definition of "punish."

 

I'm pretty sure your not the person that defines or determines the scope of my comments or their intent. I believe only I can do that.

 

Will it help the game financially? If yes, then that's all the reason necessary. Despite all the fulminating, no one would unsub over this. The "controversy" over it is yet another tempest in a teacup.

 

Perhaps. But that doesn't mean concerns should be ignored IMO. Nor should they be allowed to block moving forward.

 

The problem with posts like the one you have here is that it tends to reduce your credibility with respect to your stance. When you choose to deride someone that is not necessarily against you you give the impression that you are defensive, and therefore perhaps need to be because your contentions are not defensible.

 

It comes from both the pro and con crowd in this discussion. Predatory behavior for the sake of argument with no intent to further the discussion.