ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Grayseven]

That quote is going to be as hard to find as the one that says "Class changes WILL be allowed". Then again, the devs have said some things would happen and then later decided NOT to allow those things.

 

The devs have the final say. They have so far chosen NOT to cave to those unwilling to use the existing mechanics to play that new class, and they have remained totally silent for 8+ months.

 

We may see class changes at some undetermined point in the future, but I do not expect to see them in the foreseeable future.

 

This isn't about Class change, it's about AC change. Different animal even if you don't think so.

 

I'm putting AC change in the same boat as the SSSP and Hood Toggles...something they have talked about doing but haven't said a word about since.

[LordArtemis]

If that thread was a response to the claim that "the devs have NEVER said anything since launch about adding AC change", why did the poster choose a quote made BEFORE launch? A quote made BEFORE launch cannot be used to refute a claim that nothing was said AFTER launch.

 

The response quote was not a quote made before launch. It was a quote made 8 months ago.

 

 

Originally Posted by MajikMyst

Dude!! Current quotes only.. They have never considered AC swapping since the launch of this game.. In fact 3 months prior to launch it was decided that it would never happen.. That was when the system we have now was implemented..

 

Out of date quotes are just that out of date.. I noticed you didn't include a link to the source... Go figure..

Ah...it only counts if it's current huh?

 

Dulfy: Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

 

Damion Schubert: We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well.

Also, if you'd like sources, Google is your friend. I understand your request for them, I do the same, but not when the full quote is given, only when generalities are used do I request a link. I suggest you try it.

 

There was the original response, verbatum as much as possible. It was a response showing the most recent quote. The most recent quote, which Majik is more than aware of I suspect clearly shows that they HAVE indeed considered AC change since launch.

 

So there it is.

Edited August 8, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

If only the devs hadn't made those pesky statements IN BETWEEN the one that you quoted and the one from November 2012 that they WOULD NOT be allowing class changes, you could claim that their stance has not changed since the statement that you quoted.

 

As it stands, we can absolutely state the devs have not changed their stance since launch because we could NOT change class at launch, and we CANNOT change class now.

 

This is an accurate contention IMO.

 

One can contend that the Devs still view ACs as fundamentally different class designs. Why? Because they have said nothing to contradict that....including indicating they were considering AC change.

 

They can consider AC change without changing their stance that ACs are fundamentally different class designs.

 

In fact, I think that whether or not they view it as a class is not relevant....only because they have indicated they are considering AC change, or at least was at one time 8 months ago.

 

That right there seems to infer that they do not subscribe to the absolute view that classes can never change.

 

So really, if one sees it that way the argument about how THEY see AC is pretty silly. I think it's clear how they see them, and I also think it's clear they are not absolute on the permanent choice...or at least not recently.

 

And that is based on actual statements....not supposition or wishful feelings.

 

I HOPE that their lack of communication on this topic over the last 8 months demonstrates a decision to let AC change sit on the back burner for now. Of course there are many reasons why it could be delayed....

 

...I hope it is because they decided against it.

Edited August 8, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Lesaberisa]

I'm putting AC change in the same boat as the SSSP and Hood Toggles...something they have talked about doing but haven't said a word about since.

 

They actually have talked about both of these.

 

Hood toggle is definitely on the back burner. From their June livestream event (click this)

 

Q: Hood toogle

 

A: It is not off the table, it is one of the thing it would be great if we had build the game like that from the beginning. Doing that now is a lot of work. It doesn’t mean it is off the table, it is just in the list behind other issues. I am an old DAOC fan and I love my hood toogle.

 

And the SSSP was mentioned at their latest meet and greet thing, supposedly it's in playable alpha form, if I remember right.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Lesaberisa

[MSchuyler]

So, there seems to be some agreement, then, that A/C change is on the "back burner." One dev seems to be comparing it to hood toggle. he said (paraphrased) 'it would be cool if we had designed it that way from the beginning, but since we did not changing it is a lot of work' So we've got something that is by no means universally desired, with some active opposition, being not only on the back burner, but a lot of work to implement.

 

In your collective experience, then, have you ever seen something go from the back burner to implementation? Given the pressure for front burner stuff, how do you see something like this back burner issue ever being placed on the front burner? So put yourself in the place of a developer who makes these decisions. Here are the facts as you know them.

 

1. Some people want A/C class change. Very true.

 

2. The workaround is to level an alt from 1-10 and choose the other class. For anyone the least bit experienced, this is a trivial task.

 

3. This is not a universal desire and it has active opposition. Most people don't care, but those who oppose it are just as loud as the people who loudly want it.

 

4. It's hard to do (i.e.: it's possible, but it will take significant resources, including resources away from other projects.)

 

5. There are a lot of front burner issues people think are important.

 

Under these circumstances would YOU put resources into making this change? Would YOU put it on the "front burner?"

 

If someone like Dulfy interviews a single developer, even a senior developer, and he says, "I think we may see X in the future." do you think this locks the company into a moral obligation to provide X?

Edited August 8, 2013 by MSchuyler

[Soluss]

If someone like Dulfy interviews a single developer, even a senior developer, and he says, "I think we may see X in the future." do you think this locks the company into a moral obligation to provide X?

 

Great post and sorry I snipped it. I wanted to comment on this part.... Considering Stephen Reid said this:

 

just because we say that yes, something may potentially happen in the future… that doesn’t make it a certainty

 

So no, it doesn't lock the company into anything.

[Ratajack]

This isn't about Class change, it's about AC change. Different animal even if you don't think so.

 

I'm putting AC change in the same boat as the SSSP and Hood Toggles...something they have talked about doing but haven't said a word about since.

 

Since the devs are on record as saying that the AC's are fundamentally different class designs, and are different classes, the would make them the same animal even if you don't think so. It may not be as difficult to code as changing from a juggernaut to a mercenary, but it IS still a class change according to the devs.

[Ratajack]

The response quote was not a quote made before launch. It was a quote made 8 months ago.

 

 

 

 

There was the original response, verbatum as much as possible. It was a response showing the most recent quote. The most recent quote, which Majik is more than aware of I suspect clearly shows that they HAVE indeed considered AC change since launch.

 

So there it is.

 

You would be incorrect. Here is the quote in the original response post (the one responding to majik's post) to which I originally responded:

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson

We had alot of internal debate whether to release the advanced classes, and people need to understand they are "works in progress".

 

Obviously, the ideal is that people don't ever need to respec their Advanced Class. There are additional measures we are putting in place to improve the communication about that choice to the player before it happens. Ideally, we would also allow you to 'test drive' the AC , but that's fairly expensive and unlikely to happen. It's more likely that we stick with a short period (a few levels) during which you can change your AC class for a credit cost before it locks in.

 

We haven't made up our mind yet about the availability of an Advanced Class respec. We are evaluating all options (no Advanced Class respec, fixed cost respec, respec cost increasing with level, etc.).

A lot of thought currently goes into the consequences of Advanced Class respec - if we allow it, it will require players to relearn their entire approach to combat (which they learned over many many hours before) and replace the majority of their equipment, so it's not a thing we would want the player to do lightly, or just out of curiosity.

 

 

That statement was made BEFORE release.

 

Now here is the most recent statement, the one made after release:

 

 

Quote:

Dulfy: Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

 

Damion Schubert: We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well.

 

Notice they are not the same.

 

Notice again that nowhere in that most recent statement is there anything that contradicts the devs earlier and consistent statements that the different AC's are different classes. Notice also the italicized and bolded part. I think that if they allow class changes it may be in a manner of allowing a few levels during which a change is possible for a credit cost (or CC's) before the current AC becomes truly permanent.

 

The question with this implementation is would those few levels be from 10-15, or would those few levels "reset" after a class change. Allowing levels 10-15 to change class for a credit (or CC) cost would give players a chance to get a feel for the general play style and combat mechanics and decide if they prefer a melee style or a ranged style.

 

Having those "few levels" reset after a class change would open up class changes to possible abuse and exploitation. As an example, a player wants to be able to heal and tank, so he rolls a sorcerer. He gets to level 14 and buys a class change to assassin, resetting the "few levels". He then buys another class change before level 18, again resetting the class change timer. This could continue all the way to max level at which point the "few levels" would never be acquired and so he is free to buy class changes any time he desires.

[JoeeyyMagzz]

When you change your spec from DPS to heal, do you change your weapon or the number of weapons you can wield? Do you change from melee to ranged?

 

When you change from DPS to tank, do you need to change your weapon, armor or the number of weapons you can wield? Do you have to switch from ranged DPS to melee tank?

 

Changing your spec within a class is one thing, but changing your class is another. Your AC is your class.

 

DPS to Tank or Tank to DPS... you chang all of your gear and weapons when you make this change WITHIN YOUR AC... did you even think before you posted this?

[LordArtemis]

You would be incorrect. Here is the quote in the original response post (the one responding to majik's post) to which I originally responded:

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson

We had alot of internal debate whether to release the advanced classes, and people need to understand they are "works in progress".

 

Obviously, the ideal is that people don't ever need to respec their Advanced Class. There are additional measures we are putting in place to improve the communication about that choice to the player before it happens. Ideally, we would also allow you to 'test drive' the AC , but that's fairly expensive and unlikely to happen. It's more likely that we stick with a short period (a few levels) during which you can change your AC class for a credit cost before it locks in.

 

We haven't made up our mind yet about the availability of an Advanced Class respec. We are evaluating all options (no Advanced Class respec, fixed cost respec, respec cost increasing with level, etc.).

A lot of thought currently goes into the consequences of Advanced Class respec - if we allow it, it will require players to relearn their entire approach to combat (which they learned over many many hours before) and replace the majority of their equipment, so it's not a thing we would want the player to do lightly, or just out of curiosity.

 

 

That statement was made BEFORE release.

 

Now here is the most recent statement, the one made after release:

 

 

Quote:

Dulfy: Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

 

Damion Schubert: We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well.

 

Notice they are not the same.

 

Notice again that nowhere in that most recent statement is there anything that contradicts the devs earlier and consistent statements that the different AC's are different classes. Notice also the italicized and bolded part. I think that if they allow class changes it may be in a manner of allowing a few levels during which a change is possible for a credit cost (or CC's) before the current AC becomes truly permanent.

 

The question with this implementation is would those few levels be from 10-15, or would those few levels "reset" after a class change. Allowing levels 10-15 to change class for a credit (or CC) cost would give players a chance to get a feel for the general play style and combat mechanics and decide if they prefer a melee style or a ranged style.

 

Having those "few levels" reset after a class change would open up class changes to possible abuse and exploitation. As an example, a player wants to be able to heal and tank, so he rolls a sorcerer. He gets to level 14 and buys a class change to assassin, resetting the "few levels". He then buys another class change before level 18, again resetting the class change timer. This could continue all the way to max level at which point the "few levels" would never be acquired and so he is free to buy class changes any time he desires.

 

I posted the post in question verbatim. It clearly lists the second quote from your post.

 

I'm not sure why you are telling me this. I pointed out that Majik indicated that no dev has stated since launch that AC change was a possibilty. Clearly a dev did exactly that.

 

And that's that. That was the only point that was made. Why are you providing to me all the extra info, and why are you stating I am incorrect? Incorrect about the FACT that a dev stated 8 months ago exactly what it says in that quote you posted?

 

How am I incorrect about that? Maybe I'm missing something here?

 

The statement that "They have never considered AC swapping since the launch of this game" IS FALSE. It is false because a dev has done exactly that. The quote is well known, has been provided in this thread many times, so at this point anyone that makes that contention that has obviously been posting in this thread for some time is either not being observant or is trying to be dishonest to serve their own agenda.

 

I am particularly tired of the dishonesty, especially from folks that "claim" they are anti AC change when they seem to do everything they can to remove legitimacy from the Anti-change folks by misbehaving in the thread.

 

I think there are plenty of valid reasons not to allow AC change, I don't think we have to be misleading or dishonest to convince others.

Edited August 9, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Ratajack]

I'm not sure why you are telling me this. I pointed out that Majik indicated that no dev has stated since launch that AC change was a possibilty. Clearly a dev did exactly that.

 

And that's that. That was the only point that was made. Why are you providing to me all the extra info, and why are you stating I am incorrect? Incorrect about the FACT that a dev stated 8 months ago exactly what it says in that quote you posted?

 

How am I incorrect about that? Maybe I'm missing something here?

 

You would only be incorrect in your assertion that TUXs did not use a statement made BEFORE launch to attempt to refute Majik's post that the devs never said anything about considering class changes since launch. The devs did make a statement after launch about the possibility of allowing class changes, but that was not the statement that TUXs quoted in his original response.

[LordArtemis]

You would only be incorrect in your assertion that TUXs did not use a statement made BEFORE launch to attempt to refute Majik's post that the devs never said anything about considering class changes since launch. The devs did make a statement after launch about the possibility of allowing class changes, but that was not the statement that TUXs quoted in his original response.

 

Ah jeez.

 

Ok, fair enough. If that is the case, my apologies.

 

I actually find it surprising that something that trivial obscured the fact that Majik was not honest in his post.

 

And you throwing in with him Ratajack disappoints me greatly. I expected better from you.

Edited August 9, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Ratajack]

Ah jeez.

 

Ok, fair enough. If that is the case, my apologies.

 

I actually find it surprising that something that trivial obscured the fact that Majik was not honest in his post.

 

And you throwing in with him Ratajack disappoints me greatly. I expected better from you.

 

I'm not throwing in with Majik. I thought I had made that clear many pages ago. While Majik and I may both be opposed to class changes, that is as far as it goes.

 

I only responded to TUXs original quote since he chose to be as untruthful as Majik, while calling Majik out for his untruthfulness.

[LordArtemis]

I'm not throwing in with Majik. I thought I had made that clear many pages ago. While Majik and I may both be opposed to class changes, that is as far as it goes.

 

I only responded to TUXs original quote since he chose to be as untruthful as Majik, while calling Majik out for his untruthfulness.

 

Then I am not being fair and I apologize for that as well.

[Ratajack]

Then I am not being fair and I apologize for that as well.

 

No worries. I took no offense. I'm sorry I was not more clear as to the point I was making.

[LordArtemis]

Current list, pros and cons as reported by participants.

 

 

Option 1

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 3

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 4

 

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 7

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - Must level one character to max level in an AC to unlock legacy ability to switch AC for that class - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 8

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - maximum 8 changes per account, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 9

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet - 1 Week cooldown - Option for AC change unlocked as Character Perk for 600 cartel Coins (or 1.5 million credits) - Each subsequent AC change costs 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits).

 

Option 10

 

Level 40 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

 

Option 11

 

No AC change allowed.

 

 

 

And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.

 

 

PROS

 

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.

2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.

3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.

4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.

 

CONS

 

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.

2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.

3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.

4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.

5) This will likely further demean AC choice.

6) Could cause FOTM issues.

7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.

 

 

I am willing to begrudgingly support option 1, option 7 but would prefer option 11. The idea of option 7 has some appeal...you have to level an AC to max level to get a legacy unlock you can use to switch to that AC inside the class for another character account wide. That still give AC meaning IMO.

 

I still prefer no AC change, but I'm somewhat willing to support 1 and 7. I personally do not feel option 10 is a good idea as I think it would possibly have a negative impact on the game, more likely than an early change.

 

I would also add what I would like to see happen with respect to AC.

 

1) Bioware would come out and publicly state, in no uncertain terms, that AC IS YOUR CLASS.

 

2) Make AC choice mandatory at level 10, move all abilities under the AC heading in the abilities pane and remove the base class header, move all trainable abilities from that point forward under the AC header on the trainer.

 

3) Remove all references in the game to your base class that can be removed once you choose your AC.

 

4) Add a small quest line at max level that is AC specific, where they refer to your AC directly.

 

IMO this would make the choice more meaningful.

 

I do think, however, that Dual Spec would be fine.

 

Dual spec - Allowed when you choose your spec onward, but open use is only allowed after you conclude your class story.

 

Before your story conclusion dual spec would be restricted to use inside heroics, flashpoints, operations and warzones UNLESS the groupfinder tool allows you a free spec swap while qued to fill missing roles. It would be a permanent unlock feature, allowing you to save a particular setup...it saves point allocation and bar locations of specials but not gear setup. it would have a one hour cooldown, and would cost either EC or CC.

 

After conclusion of your storyline you are unlocked to spec swap any time you wish.

 

This does not remove the cost of respecing...only saves the spec loadouts, positions of abilities on action bars, etc....you can still choose to forgo the dual spec route and manually redeploy your points and abilities.

 

Please let me know if the new option 10 is accurate as folks have requested it. If not I will adjust it accordingly.

[Xytron]

I wish people would drop this idea, if you want to see what the other advance class is, create a new Character, by the time you've learned how to play it effectively, you could have levelled it up to level 55 any way, and earned some Legacy levels. I personally hope EA never release it, and if they did I would want it to be 60,000 CC and another 60,000CC extra every time you switch.

 

The problem is why would anyone want to play the exact same story twice? Nothing changes between the advanced classes, you don't get any different conversation choices or dialog. That's boring. It's bad enough that the game pretty much reacts the same to you on the generic quests regardless of what class you are, making just playing an entirely different class less fun once you've already been through the game.

[TUXs]

I don't want to see advanced class changes, IMHO if people want to play another char type then they should re-roll, plus they need to learn how to use their char as it grows and skills are unlocked.

 

I'd like to see things stay as they are with this.

 

Do you feel the same way about Field respecs? Players aren't all idiots. They can learn their new skillz in a few hours. This game isn't nearly as difficult as you make it sound, especially when we're talking about a simple swap of ACs. While they may play slightly different, they share a tree and have all class skills in common.

 

Not everyone who dislikes their class or wants a change, wants to reroll an alt. If you do, please do so...you have that choice as it is. But I don't understand how you could possibly be opposed to someone else switching THEIR AC when it has zero impact on YOU...are you really that worried about things that don't have any impact on you?

[LordArtemis]

If I could comment, I don't think it's fair to say that allowing AC change would have no impact on someone. I think it's more fair to say that one individuals choice in AC does not directly impact another player.

 

I might argue against that a bit in some situations, but overall I think it's a fair contention. What someone else does with respect to changing AC does not effect me.

 

However, the existence of AC change WOULD affect me, only in the way that it would further demean the choice of AC to me that already feels pretty meaningless as it is.

 

Now, that is my problem....not anyone else's problem, which is why I would not deny AC change to the masses if it was so desired.

 

However...having an AC change allowance early after the choice of the initial AC would probably not impact the meaning of AC choice to me. I can't speak for others.

Edited August 9, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Ratajack]

If I could comment, I don't think it's fair to say that allowing AC change would have no impact on someone. I think it's more fair to say that one individuals choice in AC does not directly impact another player.

 

I might argue against that a bit in some situations, but overall I think it's a fair contention. What someone else does with respect to changing AC does not effect me.

 

However, the existence of AC change WOULD affect me, only in the way that it would further demean the choice of AC to me that already feels pretty meaningless as it is.

 

Now, that is my problem....not anyone else's problem, which is why I would not deny AC change to the masses if it was so desired.

 

However...having an AC change allowance early after the choice of the initial AC would probably not impact the meaning of AC choice to me. I can't speak for others.

 

I agree with you that a SINGLE player's choice of class (AC) has a miniscule chance of affecting another specific player directly, as would a SINGLE person's changing their class. The problem with allowing class changes is you aren't talking about a SINGLE person, you are talking about allowing everyone to change their class. Even though I know some will not choose to change their class, the option will be available for everyone to use.

 

If half the game's population changes their class, that means that half the people a player meets will likely be playing a class they did not level and may not know how to play. Imagine if two, or even one, of the other three people you get in your LFG changed their class and had all new skills they had no idea how to use and were used to using skills they no longer had.

 

This is the problem TUXs and others want to declare a non-issue because we have some players now who change specs. They seem to forget that a player changing specs has a basic knowledge of the class and the majority of the class skills. A commando will likely be familiar with the commando's healing spells, with the exception of talent tree specific skills. That same commando will likely have no idea about the vanguard's taunts, or mitigation skills.

 

 

Allowing class changes up to about level 15 would give most players a chance to determine if the basic play style and combat style of a given class suits them, or if they might like to try the other class. I would be more accepting of allowing class changes prior to up to level 15 than I would at max level. This idea, I fear, will not meet with approval from many of those desiring class changes since it will eliminate the possibility of leveling easy mode (as a marauder smash monkey, for example) and changing to the desired class (juggernaut, for tanking) at end game. It will also eliminate the possibility of changing class if a player's current class gets nerfed.

[branmakmuffin]

I agree with you that a SINGLE player's choice of class (AC) has a miniscule chance of affecting another specific player directly, as would a SINGLE person's changing their class. The problem with allowing class changes is you aren't talking about a SINGLE person, you are talking about allowing everyone to change their class. Even though I know some will not choose to change their class, the option will be available for everyone to use.

You do realize that AC change will not allow players to change their characters' class, just their characters' advanced class.

[Ratajack]

You do realize that AC change will not allow players to change their characters' class, just their characters' advanced class.

 

You do realize that the AC's are different classes in the eyes of the devs. The devs would be the ones who make the rules, define the classes, set the mechanics, etc.

 

Your opinion does NOT trump that of the devs. As the devs are on record as stating the AC's are different classes, it WOULD be a class change.

 

You can wish it were otherwise all you want, but as a wise man once wrote, "What is, IS. On this bedrock principle, all else is built."

[TridusSWTOR]

You do realize that the AC's are different classes in the eyes of the devs. The devs would be the ones who make the rules, define the classes, set the mechanics, etc.

 

Your opinion does NOT trump that of the devs. As the devs are on record as stating the AC's are different classes, it WOULD be a class change.

 

You can wish it were otherwise all you want, but as a wise man once wrote, "What is, IS. On this bedrock principle, all else is built."

 

Not sure how many times this poster has to be told that MMO's are an ever changing, always adapting type of genre.

 

Either way- How does that level 45 that changes his AC, that you never met or grouped with, affect you? Please explain in great detail.

[Ratajack]

Not sure how many times this poster has to be told that MMO's are an ever changing, always adapting type of genre.

 

Not sure how many times this poster has to be told that MMO's may be an changing, always adapting type of genre, but the devs have NOT in any way contradicted their statements that the AC's are DIFFERENT classes, and so they are STILL different classes according to the ruling body, the devs. Can this change at some time in the future? Yes, but it HASN'T changed yet, just as the devs have chosen NOT to allow class changes at this time.

 

Either way- How does that level 45 that changes his AC, that you never met or grouped with, affect you? Please explain in great detail.

 

I will admit that a SINGLE player's choice of class (AC) has a miniscule chance of affecting another specific player directly, as would a SINGLE person's changing their class. The problem with allowing class changes is you aren't talking about a SINGLE person, you are talking about allowing everyone to change their class. Even though I know some will not choose to change their class, the option will be available for everyone to use. The likelihood of a player being directly or indirectly affected by another player who changes class increases exponentially with the number of people changing class.

 

If half the game's population changes their class, that means that half the people a player meets will likely be playing a class they did not level and may not know how to play. Imagine if one or two, possibly even all three, of the other three people you get in your LFG had recently changed their class and had all new skills they had no idea how to use and were used to using skills they no longer had.

 

You seem to forget that a player changing specs has a basic knowledge of the class and the majority of the class skills. A commando will likely be familiar with the commando's healing spells, with the exception of talent tree specific skills. That same commando will likely have no idea about the vanguard's taunts, or mitigation skills.

 

 

Allowing class changes up to about level 15 would give most players a chance to determine if the basic play style and combat style of a given class suits them, or if they might like to try the other class. I would be more accepting of allowing class changes prior to up to level 15 than I would allowing class changes at max level. This idea, I fear, will not meet with approval from many of those desiring class changes since it will eliminate the possibility of leveling easy mode (as a marauder smash monkey, for example) and changing to the desired class (juggernaut, for tanking) at end game. It will also eliminate the possibility of changing class if a player's current class gets nerfed.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Ratajack

[Amyas]

the whole AC system sucks just give each class 6 specs =P