Makeb shows why continuing class stories are necessary

[Eillack]

It's much better paced, for one. More focused. The way you're sent from place to place feels like a natural extension of the events taking place around you, making exploration tauter and seamlessly integrated into the story. Side-quests don't detract from the general experience by veering you off the central narrative: they're fewer, more condensed, and the ones that do exist are even careful to refer to the main story, so as to keep everything nice and centered.

 

Characters feel richer, more layered, their dialogue hinting at intriguing backstories which leave us curious to know more. The illusion of choice and consequence is better executed than in any of the preceding stories...

 

Need I go on...?

 

I'd lay off the drugs man - your mind is warped and can't think straight it seems.

 

 

• The characters feel boring now.
   
   
  
• The companions - silent as the grave and non-interactive / not registering past choices (ie I married Elara Dorne...yet it was ok for me to hit on that chick and I lost no affection unlike when I hit on Jaxo once and lost around 100 affection, etc.).
   
   
  
• The story was pointless, it is rinse and repeat which makes you want to quit after just doing it twice, let alone how many more times one needs to do on all their alts at one point.
   
   
  
• The story was rushed as well and you could tell even with all the time they had with it, they did a cheap, lazy job.
   
   
  
• It was unrealistic compared to past chapters - wow who would have thought my commando was so awesome...he just had to look at something and BAM - day was saved / mission complete...no effort or struggle in the "story."
   
   
  
• The planet? A total cluster with mobs lining every meter almost, one of the biggest complaints with my friends and guildmates are the hidden cliffs and mobs everywhere which makes completing a task much longer than it should.
   
   
  
• Makeb is nothing but busy work unlike other planets which felt like running into small situations and helping people I found along the way or serving up justice to people who brought chaos with them.

 

Need I go on...?

Edited May 20, 2013 by Eillack

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

It's much better paced, for one. More focused. The way you're sent from place to place feels like a natural extension of the events taking place around you, making exploration tauter and seamlessly integrated into the story. Side-quests don't detract from the general experience by veering you off the central narrative: they're fewer, more condensed, and the ones that do exist are even careful to refer to the main story, so as to keep everything nice and centered.

Characters feel richer, more layered, their dialogue hinting at intriguing backstories which leave us curious to know more. The illusion of choice and consequence is better executed than in any of the preceding stories...

 

Need I go on...?

 

No you don't I heard you loud and clear (wishes this game was a single player RPG not MMO).

[Machine-Elf]

I'd lay off the drugs man - your mind is warped and can't think straight it seems.

 

 

• The characters feel boring now
   
  
• The companions - silent as the grave and non-interactive / not registering past choices (ie I married Elara Dorne...yet it was ok for me to hit on that chick and I lost no affection unlike when I hit on Jaxo once and lost around 100 affection, etc.)
   
  
• The story was pointless, it is rinse and repeat which makes you want to quit after just doing it twice, let alone how many more times one needs to do on all their alts at one point
   
  
• The story was rushed as well and you could tell even with all the time they had with it, they did a cheap, lazy job.
   
  
• It was unrealistic compared to past chapters - wow who would have thought my commando was so awesome...he just had to look at something and BAM - day was saved / mission complete...no effort or struggle in the "story."
   
  
• The planet? A total cluster with mobs lining every meter almost, one of the biggest complaints with my friends and guildmates are the hidden cliffs and mobs everywhere which makes completing a task much longer than it should
   
  
• Makeb is nothing but busy work unlike other planets which felt like running into small situations and helping people I found along the way or serving up justice to people who brought chaos with them

 

Need I go on...?

I agree your second point re companions not registering past choices

[Machine-Elf]

No you don't I heard you loud and clear (wishes this game was a single player RPG not MMO).

 

The qualities that make a good story "good" are the same, irrespective of the medium.

[Eillack]

I agree your second point re companions not registering past choices

 

Well good we agree on that part.

 

I'm cannot stress what I jotted down and what others have said though about how the DLC shows that individual stories are needed - if one wants just 2 stories I really would try out another game / not bring this game down even further into the pits. I saw a major decrease in quality with RotHC; again with my guildmates, all of them were disappointed with it and would never have bought it if it wasn't the only way to progress in the game.

 

Again you are entitled to your opinion, but I highly doubt anyone will be on that bandwagon to limit this game in its most stressed part - story.

[CommanderKeeva]

It's much better paced, for one. More focused. The way you're sent from place to place feels like a natural extension of the events taking place around you, making exploration tauter and seamlessly integrated into the story. Side-quests don't detract from the general experience by veering you off the central narrative: they're fewer, more condensed, and the ones that do exist are even careful to refer to the main story, so as to keep everything nice and centered.

Characters feel richer, more layered, their dialogue hinting at intriguing backstories which leave us curious to know more. The illusion of choice and consequence is better executed than in any of the preceding stories...

 

Need I go on...?

 

Yes, please do.

 

1. More focused? You mean shorter? Okay, certainly, the quests are shorter and you're done with the planet sooner. I don't see how that's positive. Btw the Makeb planetary story (to me) seems like a direct continuation of the Jedi Knight's story on the Republic's side and the Imperial Agent's story on the Imperial side.

 

 

There is absolutely no reason for my Smuggler to be trying to evacuate the population. He should be looting a Hutt palace instead. There is absolutely no reason for my Inquisitor to personally try to reactive drilling lasers and evacuate engineers. She is supposed to have built up a power base for that kind of work.

 

 

2. Integrated exploration? I was under the impression that exploration was something a player had to do on his own without being told. Go off the beaten path here, find a quest. Go behind that rock there, find a chest. Go into that cave, find a datacron. Go behind that wall, find a Codex entry etc.

 

3. Side quests certainly don't detract from the general experience because there aren't any side quests. There are 4 side quests on each side with minimal dialogue options. But how is that good? On any other planet I was looking forward to heading into a camp and finding at least 3 NPCs I could talk to and get quests from. Now it's a friggin' daily terminal with no dialogue. You call it focused, I call it lazy. Each planet needs tons of side quests at every outpost because they are the ones that offer dialogue and keep us entertained through the tedium of killing mobs.

 

4. Richer and more intriguing characters? That's actually true. I love how the Republic and Imperial story complement each other and you have to play through both to grasp the full extent of what transpired on Makeb. But this doesn't detract from the fact that Makeb is sorely lacking in the first three points.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

The qualities that make a good story "good" are the same, irrespective of the medium.

 

Funny you say that, that's my argument. Your arguments were all about the medium, not the quality of the actual story. Your arguments were that they were disjointed and side quests were distracting but said nothing about quality of the story, meaning that if the story was all smashed together it would be OK. AKA your complaint is about medium not quality of story, see my previous reply to you.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Arlon_Nabarlly

[Lesaberisa]

4. Richer and more intriguing characters? That's actually true. I love how the Republic and Imperial story complement each other and you have to play through both to grasp the full extent of what transpired on Makeb. But this doesn't detract from the fact that Makeb is sorely lacking in the first three points.

 

I don't know if this is really true. I think you get a handful of developed character (Lemda/Shalim really on Republic side, Katha/Lord Cytharat on the Imperial side). For what it's worth, I thought the Imperial ones were handled much better (although as a LS Sith, I guess they fit in well with how I'd been playing).

 

The NPCs scattered on the planet, though....I don't see it, they generally get one, two line introductions, give their quest and that's it. Since Makeb was nothing to us/the galaxy until Rise, there's no real sense of connection to anything bigger, I just felt like they were there to point me to my quests and where the next hub was.

 

I found the bitterness towards the Republic on Balmorra a lot more interesting, for example, since it feels much more cohesive with the overall narrative, in which the Republic basically abandoned them to their fate. It felt like my characters were actually dealing with people who had their own thoughts, background, personalities, etc, rather than interchangable parts.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Lesaberisa

[anonymi]

For the first time since beta, I'm finding myself not wanting to play. It's all started fo feel fairly pointless. From the beginning, I made characters of each class--more than one if there were different choices I wanted for which I hoped there'd be repercussions in later chapters. I have 4 50s and another 4 close to it. I kept all geared in the best possible gear, ready to continue, ready for all those who threatened to remember them for the quests they refused to do and the choices they made.

 

Don't get me wrong, Makeb was fun. It was a good story on both the imperial and republic sides. I really enjoyed it with both my knight and my juggernaut. Yes, the interactions were fairly shallow compared to the initial chapters and the lack of any interaction or character development with the companions was a disappointment, but it was fun. It was pretty much a great big DLC that would have been awesome as such had it been an extra to give us some fun while waiting for the next chapter, but was less so as a replacement. It points out just what we're losing.

 

Trying to do it with my 3rd and 4th 50s is a whole lot less fun. There's nothing new to discover, no insights into the characters or their companions. There's no consequences from anything we've done in the past. Yes, Different choices could be made, but why will that matter when it appears that nothing we do will significantly impact any future story given that they're shared? Why do it when the end result is the same, not only in terms of light and dark, but for all classes? There's really no reason to do it again at all except that it's the only way to get to 55. But why bother to get to 55 on more than 2 characters if there aren't class stories on the horizon?

 

And that's not even touching on the fact that if my trooper, smuggler, bounty hunter, and even agent can do the task, why the heck is my knight, juggernaut, consular or inquisitor wasting his/her time?

 

I'm just not as interested as I once was. Combat is less challenging (and for me, less fun) and increasingly plagued by effects guaranteed to make sure a gerbil could figure it out, the game is less immersive as a whole (I'm looking at you, fade to black travel on Makeb), crafting has been virtually replaced by the cartel market and it seems we're never going to see the kind of storytelling we saw in the first 3 chapters again.

 

This isn't a flounce or a ragequit. Nothing has happened here that isn't fixable and I still like the game, but the change in how I feel about it and how much I want to play is so significant and such a dramatic shift, I though it bore mentioning. This just isn't the game I fell in love with anymore and I don't know how long the game that it's become will hold my interest. I really don't know. Yesterday I did yardwork instead of playing and that kind of says somthing.

 

Quoted just to bring the focus back to the OP,

/signed,,, Signed...SIGNED

The heart of this game is the class stories. Like the OP I have 5 50's and more coming just so I can experience all of the storylines once. Like other posters, I *may* decide to go through a 1-50 storyline again that I especially liked from another perspective/alignment (IA for example).

 

Having watched my friends chew-up and spit-out Makeb in 2 evenings before going on to buy and sub to new games, I have no desire to even run the DLC until I have everything I want from the 1-50 storylines with my alts. I am debating stopping my sub, which has been in force since pre-order, if Makeb-type faction lines are all we have to look forward to rather than immersive class stories. I prefer sandboxy games, the story is the only reason I am here and not in another MMO.

[Machine-Elf]

Yes, please do.

 

1. More focused? You mean shorter? Okay, certainly, the quests are shorter and you're done with the planet sooner. I don't see how that's positive. Btw the Makeb planetary story (to me) seems like a direct continuation of the Jedi Knight's story on the Republic's side and the Imperial Agent's story on the Imperial side.

 

 

There is absolutely no reason for my Smuggler to be trying to evacuate the population. He should be looting a Hutt palace instead. There is absolutely no reason for my Inquisitor to personally try to reactive drilling lasers and evacuate engineers. She is supposed to have built up a power base for that kind of work.

 

In the same way there is absolutely no reason for your power-mad Sith Inquisitor to take the time out of his/her epic "class quest" to perform the vast swath of meaningless tasks assigned by low-level Imperial grunts.

 

2. Integrated exploration? I was under the impression that exploration was something a player had to do on his own without being told. Go off the beaten path here, find a quest. Go behind that rock there, find a chest. Go into that cave, find a datacron. Go behind that wall, find a Codex entry etc.

The way your mini-map directs you to quests in Makeb often allows the player to find various alternate paths to their intended destination. The map is laid out in such a way that getting to point A to B isn't as clearly laid out as it used to be, nor as funneled. If you choose to jump across a mesa, or turn a corner and shuffle through a tight trail running along one of the floating islands' circumference, the game will reward you by not only revealing interesting, beautifully designed vistas, but also by ingeniously bringing together these branching off-the-beaten path corridors into a single end-point—so that whichever path one ended up choosing will end up leading he or she to their intended destination, regardless—whereas before SWTOR would operate under a single, very clearly defined path that would leave players lost if they should somehow stray from it.

 

3. Side quests certainly don't detract from the general experience because there aren't any side quests. There are 4 side quests on each side with minimal dialogue options. But how is that good? On any other planet I was looking forward to heading into a camp and finding at least 3 NPCs I could talk to and get quests from. Now it's a friggin' daily terminal with no dialogue. You call it focused, I call it lazy. Each planet needs tons of side quests at every outpost because they are the ones that offer dialogue and keep us entertained through the tedium of killing mobs.

Seriously? You know what I call lazy? 99.9% of SWTOR's side quests prior to Makeb. I mean, how many times can you go through the endless variation of "shut down the power grid", "re-route the comm signals", "upload the coordinates", "slice the navicomputer", "download the astronavigation charts" quests on offer—all of which boiled down to nothing more than kill x amount of mobs, then click a button at the end—before your stomach starts churning? I, for one, am glad we got rid of those. Taking them on, especially all at once, deviated our attentions from the actual problems at hand (the class quests) and offered no real narrative impetus to complete them.

 

4. Richer and more intriguing characters? That's actually true. I love how the Republic and Imperial story complement each other and you have to play through both to grasp the full extent of what transpired on Makeb. But this doesn't detract from the fact that Makeb is sorely lacking in the first three points.

No need to argue here when we both agree on this point

Edited May 20, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Machine-Elf]

Funny you say that, that's my argument. Your arguments were all about the medium, not the quality of the actual story. Your arguments were that they were disjointed and side quests were distracting but said nothing about quality of the story, meaning that if the story was all smashed together it would be OK. AKA your complaint is about medium not quality of story, see my previous reply to you.

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow...

[Ancaglon]

In all honesty, I would pay for just class story content. No war zones, no flash points. Just the ability to continue the story.

Agreed, and /signed.

[Mertaal]

Lets state this exactly as it actually is:

 

You want a premium product. So do I. I like premium products and I'm willing to pay the going rate for them.

 

This game used to be a premium product (at a premium price), but it failed at that price point. Now it is free to play. I.E. not premium price, but bargain basement- reduced to clear. Any extra content will be produced at a quality level appropriate to the price you're paying for it (for many of you- nothing at all. Wow you're getting a good deal).

 

It is also not a premium price, it's been "reduced" to bargain basement. You get all the premium content originally created absolutely free, and the developers charge you for additional optional perks and vanity items, should you choose to buy them.

 

If you want a premium product for a bargain basement price then I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but (unless you bought the game originally) you've already got it. You want more? Unfortunately you're being unrealistic. It costs money to make a premium product, and if you're not willing to pay more than it costs to make, nobody is going to make it. Bioware is going to make a bargain basement product, and charge you accordingly.

 

I would happily pay the going market rate for periodic class story updates/expansions. Unfortunately I'm in the minority. This is an economic fact demonstrated by the failure of this game at a premium price point. If nobody wants to pay for champagne the producer will churn out cheap sparkling wine. There's no point paying $15 for a bottle and then moaning that it's not as good as the $75 a bottle stuff.

 

Of course it isn't.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Mertaal
alteration

[chuuuuucky]

Seriously? You know what I call lazy? 99.9% of SWTOR's side quests prior to Makeb. I mean, how many times can you go through the endless variation of "shut down the power grid", "re-route the comm signals", "upload the coordinates", "slice the navicomputer", "download the astronavigation charts" quests on offer—all of which boiled down to nothing more than kill x amount of mobs, then click a button at the end—before your stomach starts churning? I, for one, am glad we got rid of those. Taking them on, especially all at once, deviated our attentions from the real problems at hand (the class quests) and offered no real narrative impetus to complete them.

 

Yes makeb has perfectioned this to death.

I killed more enemys on makeb then on 2 or 3 old planets combined. i pressed more buttons drove longer just to press one single **** button as never before.

Old planets where way better when it comes down to that.

[Dharius]

In all honesty, I would pay for just class story content. No war zones, no flash points. Just the ability to continue the story.

 

But considering its a MMO, I would expect the PvE and PvP content to be part of that package.

 

/signed

 

i agree with you here!

i would pay, without a doubt, for more chapter of class story

[Dan_Loto]

I support more class stories, be they sequels to the current ones or parallel stories with new classes.

 

My hope is that with the next "expansion" comes a new planet, with a new world questline like Makeb has. BUT I also hope that they add class stories that go from Ilum, to Makeb, and then finish on this new planet so that we get a proper 4th act that is comparable to the previous acts.

 

I like this idea.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Dan_Loto

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

It's much better paced, for one. More focused. The way you're sent from place to place feels like a natural extension of the events taking place around you, making exploration tauter and seamlessly integrated into the story. Side-quests don't detract from the general experience by veering you off the central narrative: they're fewer, more condensed, and the ones that do exist are even careful to refer to the main story, so as to keep everything nice and centered.

 

Need I go on...?

 

No you don't I heard you loud and clear (wishes this game was a single player RPG not MMO).

 

The qualities that make a good story "good" are the same, irrespective of the medium.

 

Breakdown of your agruments:

- Pacing

- Integration into exploration

- Side-quests detachment

- Spacing of narratives

 

These are all mechanical concerns not concerns about the quality of story. It was for this reason that I posted what I said about your true complaint is that this isn't a single player RPG. All of your concerns are necessary evils with making an MMO into a story based game. If your real concern was quality of story you would have said things like "no connection to characters" "story arcs don't make sense or are boring" ect.

[Machine-Elf]

Breakdown of your agruments:

- Pacing

- Integration into exploration

- Side-quests detachment

- Spacing of narratives

 

These are all mechanical concerns not concerns about the quality of story. It was for this reason that I posted what I said about your true complaint is that this isn't a single player RPG. All of your concerns are necessary evils with making an MMO into a story based game. If your real concern was quality of story you would have said things like "no connection to characters" "story arcs don't make sense or are boring" ect.

Good pacing and a solid focus on the main problem/challenge/task the protagonist needs to overcome aren't just "mechanical concerns", they represent some of the most essential components of what makes for an effective narrative.

[zorroazul]

/signed.

 

To be honest, my friends, I wasn't expecting much (regarding character storylines) with the new planet Makeb, because I was certain it was going to be EXACTLY as any other planet storyline: Hoth, Alderaan, Tattoine, Corelia, etc. All of them are fun to run it once, but there isn't anything else to do it another time. Force user, light oriented, dark assassin, clever agent etc., every single planet storyline follows the SAME series of quests, only changing a couple of words depending of your class; and Makeb was a perfect example of this.

 

On the real positive side, the very initial introduction to Makeb was THE BEST part for every single class in a long time: it changed according to your class, even in details such as how you finished your storyline, and of course, the title your earned. This my friends, is the main point of why Makeb was a good addition to the game: perhaps a little short, but it certainly showed the importance of continuing our class stories.

 

I'd wish for future updates we could have more specific content and perhaps less BIG planets. How about introducing a new event, or a quest that involves more about our characters stories and not so much new content. I think a lot of players will truly enjoy this.

[Andryah]

I'd wish for future updates we could have more specific content and perhaps less BIG planets. How about introducing a new event, or a quest that involves more about our characters stories and not so much new content. I think a lot of players will truly enjoy this.

 

The difficulty with an MMO with around a million active players is there is no such thing as a silver bullet in terms of content. What some players like, other players will criticize and complain about. The forums here are ample evidence of this.

 

To that end... it is pretty clear that Bioware's long term plan is to provide a broad set of content that is casual friendly. This is why we see them doing different content updates in round robin fashion with major patches. They know there is no way to please all the people all the time. Some content you will like, some you will not, some you will crave more of, some you wil not.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Andryah

[KennethHoover]

The incredibly obnoxious mob density and grindy atmosphere of Makeb brickwalled my enthusiasm for that planet. I haven't even finished it because of that element alone.

 

Now I just PvP because if I'm going to grind I might as well do it against other players instead of thickened mob densities as a way to grind out the "length" of the planet.

[zzoorrzz]

I don't feel like reading the entire thread right now, but I can say that class stories is the reason why I played this game beyond the first week and it would certainly make me play this game longer if they continued them in the future.

[seekerofpower]

Class stories are integral to what makes this game different from other MMOs. They are a necessary part of the game for it to survive in the future. Makeb had a great story, but lacked that personal touch that the class stories had.

 

Plus, according to what devs said during beta and during the first few months after release, there is already new class story written for all classes, it just needs to be made.

[Telsnow]

I'll eventually see all the class stories up to 50, because I'm an altoholic like that, but I have no plans to get most of them to 55 or beyond because of this "shared story" crap, which is just a PR spin for their ever increasing laziness. It feels like they're trying to make the most money they can from the lowest invested amount possible. Low overhead is a good goal for businesses but it shouldnt come at the expense of the customers.

 

They've given me no reason to open my wallet. Their implementation of F2P has left a sour taste in my mouth and doesn't make me want to support them by buying cosmetic stuff I really don't need. I could buy it off the GTN anyway if I really wanted it. There's even less incentive to subscribe because the elder game content just doesn't have the staying power. Any desire I might have to grind operations and warzones will quickly be satiated from a weekly pass or two every month.

 

Everything that I'm doing in the game now could be done without a subscription, supplementing credits instead, and at the most, $5 a month on coins. I used to do operations and warzones all the time before the game went F2P. I had an army of alts to gear up, just like I do now, but at least back then I had the class story content driving me towards 50. Now there's nothing driving me to 55 so my alts are collecting dust.

 

It feels like they bought into their own hype when developing this game. They thought this game was going to crush WoW and they'd be able to generate the revenue for future class stories. When that didn't happen, and the game turned out to be a total flop in the eyes of the majority of the gaming community, they went into recovery mode, trying to make back some of the money they invested. So that's where we are now. No new class stories ever, charging us more money for less content. You can shave a sheep countless times in its life, but you can only skin it once.

[Calabask]

Yes, class stories will be necessary to continue this game for years to come. This expansion took most people less than a week to do the main storyline. That will not suffice for keeping people engaged for years like an MMO is supposed to.

 

Less than a week? Try less than five days. Most of my guild and I finished it in two. Not only that, but there's not even enough content there to get you to 55 without XP boosts. One of our guildiees tried it, he got to like 52.