The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[Alexandrozingsw]

Or, you know, ignore achievements at all. New players needs a chance too. As long as they don't have trash gear and are willing to listen I have no problems with taking them over any "pro" with 3.0 achievements. At least they're honest.

 

BTW in our guild is a person with proper NIM Styrak kill from the time when the ops was released(or some time around, surely not the first). DPS on actual Nefra - 4.1 k. C'mon, people change and killing some level 50/55 boss doesn't mean anything today

 

But that's totally OT so I think we can move on, give us some better topic to talk!

 

that's right anyone looking for "achievment" as a way to gate group members it's only wishing for an assured succes. achievs mean nothing when in the ground, and if you can't see the poor perfomance of a certain player and ask him to improve or leave thats poor group management.

 

edit: you can be an awesome tank for styrak, that doesn't mean that you have the dps for doing it on an alt

Edited November 24, 2016 by Alexandrozingsw
clarification

[AndoEyrune]

I was in EV HM this week (priority ops) and there was a clueless sniper with 208/216 comms gear and no augments.

• He was not able to enter the ops because he was trying to enter through TfB

• He had about 8K achievments points, but EV was only completed for SM

• After some bosses he didn't roll in anything, people were asking why and I said that was probably because he didn't know to roll, which he confirmed

• After that the devil on me start to whisper in my ear: I said if the needed a gear he should press alt+F4, everyone kept quiet

• After the pylon fight, he tried to roll, pressing alt+f4, got DC'ED immediately... after he returned we asked what happened and he said "alt+f4 close the game

• we continued and after the last boss was down (the sniper didn't die in the platforms, for a miracle) he rolled and got the 224 mainhand, i said to him in order to equip the mainhand he should drag the token on an empty space, click it and confirm... he destroyed his mainhand

 

I find this hilarious, especially if it's true. Well played my friend.

[Alexandrozingsw]

I find this hilarious, especially if it's true. Well played my friend.

 

so bullying new players its the norm nowadays?

 

no wonder group content get punned every major patch

[chemistryset]

I was in EV HM this week (priority ops) and there was a clueless sniper with 208/216 comms gear and no augments.

• He was not able to enter the ops because he was trying to enter through TfB

• He had about 8K achievments points, but EV was only completed for SM

• After some bosses he didn't roll in anything, people were asking why and I said that was probably because he didn't know to roll, which he confirmed

• After that the devil on me start to whisper in my ear: I said if the needed a gear he should press alt+F4, everyone kept quiet

• After the pylon fight, he tried to roll, pressing alt+f4, got DC'ED immediately... after he returned we asked what happened and he said "alt+f4 close the game

• we continued and after the last boss was down (the sniper didn't die in the platforms, for a miracle) he rolled and got the 224 mainhand, i said to him in order to equip the mainhand he should drag the token on an empty space, click it and confirm... he destroyed his mainhand

 

It´s not funny, it´s not hilarious, it´s just low.

 

so bullying new players its the norm nowadays?

 

no wonder group content get punned every major patch

 

This.

[majopucik]

/suicide jumps for datacrons are enough

 

HAHA havent heard that one for a long time!

[majopucik]

Or, you know, ignore achievements at all. New players needs a chance too. As long as they don't have trash gear and are willing to listen I have no problems with taking them over any "pro" with 3.0 achievements. At least they're honest.

 

BTW in our guild is a person with proper NIM Styrak kill from the time when the ops was released(or some time around, surely not the first). DPS on actual Nefra - 4.1 k. C'mon, people change and killing some level 50/55 boss doesn't mean anything today

 

But that's totally OT so I think we can move on, give us some better topic to talk!

 

After doing over 300 HM FPS in 3 weeks i stopped looking at peoples gear or achievements. The only thing i did was check their HP and current Level and that was it.

[majopucik]

so bullying new players its the norm nowadays?

 

no wonder group content get punned every major patch

 

That is the result of people getting bored. I personally ninja stole at least 8 MHs from EV, so what? Look at the 5.0 changes, that sniper they spoke off, who has little idea about the game will get end game gear 'eventually" just by doing daily stuff, even heroics, how it that reasonable?

[peter_plankskull]

so bullying new players its the norm nowadays?

 

no wonder group content get punned every major patch

 

I don't agree with bulling new players like above and abusing there newbiness, but just because one player is a arse like that doesn't mean you use him as the Omni point argument and swinging bat of why group content is getting passed as it is now.

 

That is the result of people getting bored. I personally ninja stole at least 8 MHs from EV, so what? Look at the 5.0 changes, that sniper they spoke off, who has little idea about the game will get end game gear 'eventually" just by doing daily stuff, even heroics, how it that reasonable?

 

You're a disgrace to this game and humanity. It's one thing to do it and get your joy, but to use that as a sense of accomplishment? Really? If you're really that bored to the point where you can only get joy out of causing distress to 7-15 others, uninstall the game or better yet stop playing video games.

[majopucik]

You're a disgrace to this game and humanity. It's one thing to do it and get your joy, but to use that as a sense of accomplishment? Really? If you're really that bored to the point where you can only get joy out of causing distress to 7-15 others, uninstall the game or better yet stop playing video games.

 

I had enough discussions about this back at the start of 4.0 when we got Prios and people found out how easy it is to grind only EV and KP. I am not a bad person, but you have to adapt to the environment. When i was robbed over 5 times of the MH I had to take action myself!! I didn't want to be joining groups in order to get robbed each time, i have limited game time, cant be asked for that!

[josephinec]

so bullying new players its the norm nowadays?

 

no wonder group content get punned every major patch

 

I wouldn't say it's the norm, because I know most raiders aren't jerks. However, I would say the player base has a strong tendency to be mean and impatient towards newbies. I speak from experience.

 

Group content is only getting screwed over because Bioware Austin is dumb.

[BobFredJohn]

Playing my lvl 41 sage healer, get a pop for tact BH, group is a 38 guardian tank, 65 guardian dps, 60 sent dps.

 

Do first boss, the 65 guardian dps has aggro pretty much the whole fight, even when he peels off boss to attack adds.

 

After fight tank puts guard on me, I switch it off, we do a challenge, 65 dps guardian face-tanks it then tank realises my guard is gone, guards me, I switch it off. Do second challenge, dps guardian face-tanks it, tank guards me after the fight.

 

I switch it off and say "use it properly or not at all"

 

No response, no guard, nothing. We do third challenge, dps face-tanks it. Then we start Jos and Valk.

 

All 3 of them stand in fire during jos, when valk is down the conal is pointed towards the group and the 3 of them don't bother splitting up for the big red circles. I am having to use kolto's to heal through easily avoidable mechanics, then spend my time healing the dps who has aggro.

 

We get to the final phase, fighting both bosses at once. Jos leaps in the air (the sign that he has just done fire) then valk puts big red circle on everyone. None of them move. I only have time to bubble one person (the one I was targeting at the time, the dps guardian because he was face-tanking so required most healing) before the red circles explode and, due to the damage from fire and overlapped red circles the sent and tank both die. Tank immediately dc's, the timing is far too perfect to have been a proper dc, I reckon it was a ragequit.

 

We carry on fighting the bosses, get one of them nearly dead when the sent gets thrown over the edge by valk and it ends up a wipe.

 

We get rid of the cry-baby who quit after 1 death and get a replacement really quick. When he joins us it turns out he is a lvl 20 guardian tank. He guards me, I tell him to guard the dps guardian as they do loads of aggro and guard is immediately switched.

 

The level 20 pulls. He holds aggro off the level 65 guardian and lvl 60 sent, but my heals aren't up to keeping a level 20 alive in BH so he starts running kolto's too. He follows all fight mechanics (unlike the 2 dps) and we survive until jos and valk, then the sent gets thrown over the edge, tank dies, wipe.

 

We pull again, level 20 tank holds aggro off 2 level 60+ dps while running koltos, while following all mechanics. The 2 dps don't follow mechanics and I already have lots of healing to do so they both end up dead, we wipe

 

Next pull I get caught out by valk and knocked off the edge, everybody else dies within 12 seconds of me.

 

sent: "we will never do it with 2 noobs in the group"

guardian dps: "yeah, kick them or leave?"

 

The sent quits group

 

me: "strange how you lot died within seconds of my death, suggests my healing is actually making a difference"

 

Then the guardian tank writes "sorry, I'm too weak for this I will get out of the way" and quits

 

guardian dps "well that's 1 noob gone, just wait for you to quit and I can set up a proper group"

me: "but you might not find a healer willing to try healing through mechancis" then I quit group

 

And I am bloody pissed off, not at the guardian dps, not at the sent, but at the tank. He was perfect. He held aggro on players 40+ levels above him, he followed all mechanics while running koltos, he was amazing. Yet he let some idiot who ignored all mechanics tell him he was crap then apologised for it.

 

So I sent the tank whispers pointing out to him that I tank for a progression ops group that he was better at holding aggro than I am, better at running koltos than I am and better at following mechanics than I am. I pointed out the problem in that group was both dps not him.

 

From his replies I think I rather cheered him up, then when I requeued I happened to get a pop with him, hammer station with a 65 sin tank and 22 mando healer. Between them the 65 sin tank and 20 guardian discussed who was going to tank what, and the 20 asked if he could tank as he "needs the practice."

 

He then proceeds to hold aggro on the first boss despite the sin tank doing proper rotation (slow time on cd, project on cd, cascading debris at 3-stack, force breach on cd and so on).

 

Possibly the best tank I have ever seen in the game and hes only level 20, and yet if it was left to the dumb dps in the bh group he would think hes useless.

[Rolodome]

I had enough discussions about this back at the start of 4.0 when we got Prios and people found out how easy it is to grind only EV and KP. I am not a bad person, but you have to adapt to the environment. When i was robbed over 5 times of the MH I had to take action myself!! I didn't want to be joining groups in order to get robbed each time, i have limited game time, cant be asked for that!

FTR, being screwed by someone else isn't an excuse to do it yourself. If everyone operated that way, we'd have no social cooperation.

[Tsetso]

FTR, being screwed by someone else isn't an excuse to do it yourself. If everyone operated that way, we'd have no social cooperation.

 

Social cooperation? What kind of animal is this?

[BobFredJohn]

FTR, being screwed by someone else isn't an excuse to do it yourself.

 

I remember, back before 4.0 a member of the rep guild I was in spent most of his time ganking (I was on ToFN back then).

 

I always got into arguments with him over it because I remember back when I was levelling my first character, my sniper, and every single quest objective in dune sea had at least 3 level 65 rep players camping on them. Plus there was a roaming band of 8 level 65 reps in dune sea.

 

I was constantly logging on, getting killed 3 or 4 times, then logging off for about a week solid - as a side note that's what lead me to creating alts, I figured if that character was stuck on dune sea I would play some others.

 

I eventually got past dune sea by logging on at a high-activity time and after being killed for the second time I opened map and noticed instance 3 had just appeared. I moved there and did my quests then got off tatt.

 

Anyway, back to the rep guy. I kept telling him how annoyed I got when I was being ganked and how it ruined the game for me. His response was always "I know what its like, gankers ruined the game for me too, that's why I do it"

 

So this guy, because his game was ruined by gankers, decided to ruin the game for other new players. His argument was always "getting revenge on the ganks." Of course that's ridiculous because the players he was killing were not gankers, if they were they would have switched to their pvp geared 65's and owned his ***.

 

Its this attitude of "I hate it when people do X, so I am going to do X," its basically what happens when ******* get hold of computers and mmo's.

[Rolodome]

Social cooperation? What kind of animal is this?

Lol.

 

I miss pre-CU SWG. Where you pretty much needed to socially cooperate or you were dead in the water. That or pay for 3-4 accounts.

 

I remember, back before 4.0 a member of the rep guild I was in spent most of his time ganking (I was on ToFN back then).

 

I always got into arguments with him over it because I remember back when I was levelling my first character, my sniper, and every single quest objective in dune sea had at least 3 level 65 rep players camping on them. Plus there was a roaming band of 8 level 65 reps in dune sea.

 

I was constantly logging on, getting killed 3 or 4 times, then logging off for about a week solid - as a side note that's what lead me to creating alts, I figured if that character was stuck on dune sea I would play some others.

 

I eventually got past dune sea by logging on at a high-activity time and after being killed for the second time I opened map and noticed instance 3 had just appeared. I moved there and did my quests then got off tatt.

 

Anyway, back to the rep guy. I kept telling him how annoyed I got when I was being ganked and how it ruined the game for me. His response was always "I know what its like, gankers ruined the game for me too, that's why I do it"

 

So this guy, because his game was ruined by gankers, decided to ruin the game for other new players. His argument was always "getting revenge on the ganks." Of course that's ridiculous because the players he was killing were not gankers, if they were they would have switched to their pvp geared 65's and owned his ***.

 

Its this attitude of "I hate it when people do X, so I am going to do X," its basically what happens when ******* get hold of computers and mmo's.

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. It's one thing if the person is accidentally mimicking what others did to them, unaware, as a subconscious behavior. It's a whole other thing to be aware of it and still do it.

[Tsetso]

Lol.

 

I miss pre-CU SWG. Where you pretty much needed to socially cooperate or you were dead in the water. That or pay for 3-4 accounts.

 

Yes. Same with me and Ultima Online. Basically that's the main difference between a theme park and sandbox mmos.

[Rolodome]

Yes. Same with me and Ultima Online. Basically that's the main difference between a theme park and sandbox mmos.

True, good point.

[Torvai]

Alright, so I just queued for a HM FP on my 64 Jugg tank. Got a pop for bt, go up to the first convo, the three others, two of which are from the same guild, leave the FP without a word.

I'm literally like ***

[aerockyul]

I wouldn't say it's the norm, because I know most raiders aren't jerks. However, I would say the player base has a strong tendency to be mean and impatient towards newbies. I speak from experience.

 

Group content is only getting screwed over because Bioware Austin is dumb.

 

Gate new people without achievements

Gate people with achievements but they aren't the "right" achievements with the correct time stamp or done at exactly the right time of the year when the moon was a quarter full and wasn't correctly aligned with Orion

"Helping" new people by trolling them, insulting them, shouting at them, all-around making them feel unwelcome

Ninja-looting is ok because you're bored

If you haven't solo'd every flashpoint naked and recorded it on Youtube for all to gawk in awe at, just uninstall, sit in a corner, and think about how bad you are at life

 

All activities that Bioware sponsors, I'm sure.

 

PVE (and PVP, for mainly the third point) player base actively pushes out new people, get's little sympathy from majority of community, and further justifies Bioware's apathy to create new group content. Earth-shaking stuff here.

[dr_mike]

Had a diaper change pause a few days ago.

 

The amazing thing was that the other two players were willing to wait.

[Omecrion]

I find it funny that most of the time i use GF, i always run into people who either a)think they are the greatest player(s) and feel they should tell you how to do your job and yet they are absolute crap or b)they are tanks and they suffer from what i call "tank immortality" syndrome where they feel that since there is a healer they can agro everything in sight and then berates everyone else for not "keeping up with him" and cause the entire team to wipe on about a 20npc mobs, i literally had someone say that to me once. I also find it funny that the people who fall into group a, the moment you try to helpfully correct them, they just go into a blind rage and then try to get you kicked.

[AndoEyrune]

Gate new people without achievements

Gate people with achievements but they aren't the "right" achievements with the correct time stamp or done at exactly the right time of the year when the moon was a quarter full and wasn't correctly aligned with Orion

"Helping" new people by trolling them, insulting them, shouting at them, all-around making them feel unwelcome

Ninja-looting is ok because you're bored

If you haven't solo'd every flashpoint naked and recorded it on Youtube for all to gawk in awe at, just uninstall, sit in a corner, and think about how bad you are at life

 

All activities that Bioware sponsors, I'm sure.

 

PVE (and PVP, for mainly the third point) player base actively pushes out new people, get's little sympathy from majority of community, and further justifies Bioware's apathy to create new group content. Earth-shaking stuff here.

 

You're speaking of the minority of players. Most progression raiders don't have time to be ******es to other players because they only log on for raids each week.

[lcharas]

Since I was the one who suggested looking for time stamps, I'll just assume that part (amongst others) is directed to me.

 

I have spent the last three years as raid leader (or deputy) and not once I have gated anyone because of his/her achievements. There are exactly two thing I demand of people, those are motivation and honesty.

 

I don't know how miserable the conditions on other servers are, but here on VC people actually can read, have common sense and most importantly: they tell the truth.

Exceptions reserved, that guy won't raid on this server again.

 

 

Achievement gating was suggested further above, then dismissed as not expressive due to 3.0, hence I suggested looking for time stamps.

Yes, gating people on achievements is just as ridiculous as demanding e+e (experience and equipment). IMO there is only one reason to look for people with e+e, and that is if one doesn't have it him-/herself. Of course, these people do exist and time stamps are unambigious.

 

Regarding the solo/naked fp part: No. We certainly do not demand anyone who wants to join us to do the same. The vid's purpose is to dislodge the classic "Nerf X, it's impossible" claim.

 

Also, regarding the EV thing above: The [alt]+[f4] thing is a joke, telling someone to destroy their unassembled tokens or ninja-looting is being a jerk.

 

We are the last NiM-guild remaining on our server in 5.0. I have already told my members to take part in whatever random pug they can find, in order to teach the new generation of players. The community is currently experiencing a change of the guard. Most of those who have completed the majority of the content leave to play other games, but there is a steady flow of newcomers and some of those want to play high end content. The newbies of today will be the raiders of tomorrow, so please just drop the nasty attitude and help them. However, as Yoda said: Do or do not, there is no try. Never give advice of which you are not sure it is correct. One of the most annoying tasks as a raid leader is explaining why many of those pug-tactics are actual b***s*** and often detrimental.

 

I'm really sorry this conversation drifts further and further OT, but I dislike personal attacks. The only new flashpoint experience I could share would be regarded as elitist boasting, so I'll pass.

Edited November 26, 2016 by lcharas

[josephinec]

I know most raiders aren't (Sith Warrior voice) elitist snobs, because you need patience and a certain level of tolerance to be able to work in progression guilds.

 

I'm just saying, in the two years I've been playing, a lot of the fandom is snotty and mean. As I said, it's one thing when you've got a Focus Guardian in Soresu form, with the Legendary icon by their name, pulling before the real tank. It's another thing when a level 46 AP Powertech is mocking the level 21 Immortal Juggernaut about how they're struggling to keep aggro off them, and how stupid the Juggernaut is, even though she's actually trying her best.

[Tharandil]

I think the main problem with GF is that the difficulty between SM and HM is too big. A pug who is new to this game, easily makes it through their class quests and SM flashpoints without really learning tactics, rotations etcetera. When these same people que for a (SM) OPS or HM flashpoint their inexperience becomes annoying for veteran players. I'm not applauding the rudeness of certain (veteran) players have towards the noobies, but it is understandable. With KOTET going live next week and the release of multiple free level 60-65 tokens I fear the problem will increase. How about before you'll join a HM FP or OPS you must have solo'ed the Eternal Championship on Zakuul , this way new players have to improve their rotation and learn some of the game mechanics before they'll enroll for harder multiplayer content.

 

Don't let inexperience kill off this game. Please be supportive to new players and remember that you were once a noob too

Edited November 27, 2016 by Tharandil