The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[SW_display_name]

"Sometimes healing is too hard so I do damage instead"

That is epic.

[Strajder]

How many times...?

- Threat reduction is useless on healer if healer is the only one on mob's aggro table.

And healer is the only one on mob's aggro table because... ?

 

Answer: The tank doesn't have aggro on the mob at all!

 

I can understand that tank sometimes cannot pick up one or two far away ranged mobs. This wasn't the case here. All the mobs were in one tight group. He still didn't hold aggro on them. I could understand if he wasn't as experienced with tanking and warned us if he had trouble with that. Wasn't the case here, he defended his actions.

 

Stop justifying the bad tank, DPS and healers aren't supposed to tank in MMOs, that's tank's job FFS!

 

And again: that particular FP with that tank is one of the rare occasions I encountered this kind of problem as DPS! In the majority of cases people know how to tank.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Strajder

[Khevar]

And healer is the only one on mob's aggro table because... ?

 

Answer: The tank doesn't have aggro on the mob at all!

 

Stop justifying the bad tank, DPS and healers aren't supposed to tank in MMOs, that's tank's job FFS!

 

And again: that particular FP with that tank is one of the rare occasions I encountered this kind of problem as DPS! In the majority of cases people know how to tank.

And what, pray tell, were the DPS doing while the healer was pulling aggro?

 

I will not disagree that the tank should control the battlefield. And when I tank, I have no problems keeping aggro off the healer.

 

BUT, when I dps, I DO THE SAME FREAKING THING. I kill weakest to strongest, and pay particular attention to mobs attacking the healer.

 

I'm sorry, but if the healer is getting attacked, don't just sit there and blame the tank. Also slap the dps who aren't paying attention to what's going on either.

 

Any decent dps can one or two-shot a weak / standard mob. You've got 2 dps in a regular flashpoint. More than 6 seconds into a fight there shouldn't be anything other than silver / elite mobs still alive. If there is, than YOU are doing something wrong, not the tank.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Khevar

[Strajder]

And what, pray tell, were the DPS doing while the healer was pulling aggro?

Killing weakest to strongest, remember? Most of the mobs were on the healer, I was killing weakest to strongest, one at the time, and each mob I targeted was on me.

 

For the 1000th time, I don't otherwise have trouble playing as DPS in FPs in the overwhelming majority of cases. Only when some ******** queues as tank on his DPS/Tank advanced class with DPS gear and stance, or when the tank is clueless as in this case. What aggravates me is when they defend their harmful behavior.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Strajder

[Khevar]

Killing weakest to strongest, remember? Most of the mobs were on the healer, I was killing weakest to strongest, one at the time, and each mob I targeted was on me.

And what was the other dps doing?

[Strajder]

And what was the other dps doing?

I guess the same as I did? With the same result? Maybe with lower DPS, so I tanked the mobs for him?

Edited June 7, 2014 by Strajder

[Khevar]

I guess the same as I did? With the same result? Maybe with lower DPS, so I tanked the mobs for him?

a) If it takes you two longer than 6 seconds, you're doing something wrong

b) If you take more than a tiny bit of damage from weak mobs for 6 seconds, you're doing something wrong.

 

I say this having just leveled yet another toon (dps) to 55, this time without ever once having a companion out. Fully solo. I tanked every fight. You've got combat CCs that work on weaks, use them. Awe, Force Sweep, Missile Blast, TK Throw, Flash Grenade, Force Choke, etc, etc, etc.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Khevar

[Darkelefantos]

And healer is the only one on mob's aggro table because... ?

 

Answer: The tank doesn't have aggro on the mob at all!

 

Not really. The healer is the only one on the aggro table because nobody is doing continuous damage to the mob. You can try taunting a mob of a healer and then doing no damage. The healer will grab aggro eventually.

 

Also, Guard is useful, but it won't make your tank better. Odds are nothing would have improved if he had used guard. Especially on the healer. That would have been useless.

[Strajder]

a) If it takes you two longer than 6 seconds, you're doing something wrong

b) If you take more than a tiny bit of damage from weak mobs for 6 seconds, you're doing something wrong.

[...]

You've got combat CCs that work on weaks, use them. Awe, Force Sweep, Missile Blast, TK Throw, Flash Grenade, Force Choke, etc, etc, etc.

Can't use CC on every mob, and their damage adds up. Every mob that was on the healer was on me, in succession, after I would attack it. Speed is irrelevant, as the mobs should be on the tank regardless of the killing speed. Again, tank had 0 aggro.

 

Not really. The healer is the only one on the aggro table because nobody is doing continuous damage to the mob.

As in: the tank, whose damage would produce threat due to his stance. For example, there are things like http://www.torhead.com/ability/1i6XFFh/cyclone-slash that can do that for several mobs at once.

 

I can't believe you guys, really. I'm very disappointed with this forum.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Strajder

[Khevar]

Can't use CC on every mob, and their damage adds up. Every mob that was on the healer was on me, in succession, after I would attack it.

There are attacks in your list of abilities that actually will stun / mez mobs for 1-3 seconds. I listed a few of them. There are more.

 

I say this with confidence -- I was able to finish off a group of 4 standard mobs that were spread out, and still have 90% health at the end of the fight, without any companion at all. Solely by knowing all of the toolset at my disposal and using it appropriately.

 

Mind you, I'm not trying to excuse the tank for not controlling the battlefield. But if you're having troubles with standard / weak mobs in a flashpoint, I can guarantee you that YOU are doing something wrong as well, not just the tank.

 

Edit: There's a practical side to this too. If you're not using those same in-combat CC attacks, but the tank still had aggro on all mobs, the tank would be taking more damage than was necessary.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Khevar

[Darkelefantos]

Can't use CC on every mob, and their damage adds up. Every mob that was on the healer was on me, in succession, after I would attack it. Speed is irrelevant, as the mobs should be on the tank regardless of the killing speed. Again, tank had 0 aggro.

 

 

As in: the tank, whose damage would produce threat due to his stance. For example, there are things like http://www.torhead.com/ability/1i6XFFh/cyclone-slash that can do that for several mobs at once.

 

I can't believe you guys, really. I'm very disappointed with this forum.

 

Any attack produces threat. A tanking stance increases the threat. You let others do the tanking, don't you?

 

I was also simply pointing out that what you were saying isn't correct. Literally the second half of my post is dedicated to stating that your tank was bad and Guard wouldn't have changed anything

 

I can't believe you person, really. I'm very disappointed with your reading capabilities.

[CrazyGreggy]

Less derailing thread with arguments, more funny stories. The last 10 pages or so have the lowest story to page ratio so far in this thread. Please, take your theorycrafting or just plain d**k measuring contests elsewhere. Edited June 7, 2014 by CrazyGreggy

[EranofArcadia]

Is that what this thread was about?

 

Well, I, um . . . offhealed 2 vantanks and a slinger last night in KDY with a TK Sage, no deaths until the final droid. It was quite an experience, made me consider buying field respec on that alt, but nothing too weird.

[Halinalle]

Less derailing thread with arguments, more funny stories. The last 10 pages or so have the lowest story to page ratio so far in this thread. Please, take your theorycrafting or just plain d**k measuring contests elsewhere.

 

Why don't you provide some good stories then?

 

Lvl 54 Shadow, Infiltration, deep in the skill tree, uses Combat Technique.

Where does these weird players come from?

[jrwellworth]

First off, Thank you One of my favorite things about FiB is meeting so much of our server when we run events, or do clears like that. I'm glad to hear we inspired a great deal of fun!

 

Secondly, I think you misunderstand me slightly. The only time I'd ever use a different stat is in mainland or off hand, so set bonus doesn't come into it.

For you see, in MH and OH, the hilt or armouring is what decides the force power and Max/Min damage of the item. A strength hilt and a willpower hilt will have the same endurance, so what it comes down to is 70 willpower, vs say (I don't know the exact values btw) 150 force power, 120 minimum Damage and 180 max...

As force power acts the same strength as Normal power, the amount of a Bonus damage/Healing increase you get is more than you'd get from your willpower, as the 78 hilt gives a huge bonus over a 66 one.

 

Now, the higher the tiers you go, the less difference this makes, and eventually a 69/72 willpower hilt is better than a 78 strength one, but until you get to 69 or 72, a strength 78 hilt would be better off if you can find one from an alt.

 

So indeed, you should always take mainstat over another stat, but only if it's point for point worth it with bonus damage, tech power etc added in.

 

So. Strength (78/180 rating) > Willpower (66 rating) hilt

But Strength (78) < Willpower (69/72/78)

 

Again I reiterate, this is only mainhand and offhand. Never augments, never gloves/legs/chest etc...

 

Hey, thanks for your response and others I recieved. I can accept when I have been wrong or have not gotten the concept. After your post and another where it was stated that this was for MH/OH only, and talking to friends i respect, I realize that I was wrong in regards to the bonus you can recieve from using a higher off stat in those stated peices. The tech and bonus healing, my friends told me would be great in a pinch with say a 180 aim over a 66 cunning for a scoundrel. And guardians can benefit from the force power boost from willpower, so i was told. I think this is where we split in our meanings, and I thank you guys for putting me up on some game that could benefit us in between a rock and a hard place. And keep them awesome FiB vids coming.

 

-Sandari-

[jrwellworth]

Hey all-

 

So, another kinda cool story. This one isn't a terrible time but actually something I thought was cool.

I gf into a kdy on my scoundrel healer, lvl 44. i port in and find we have a trinity! Awesome, at least to my mind, as I am in the camp that believes in the trinity and also that the KDY academy is producing players from 15-55 in a couple day that have no idea what they are doing. Anyway. We begin, with a shadow tank lvl 36, a sentinel lvl 36 and a slinger lvl 39, and are having a great time, things are going smooth. Then at the end of an elite fight the sentinel says brb, and I attempt to strike up a convo with the shadow tank, as I main a shadow tank. She does not reply. When the sentinel says back, sorry someone at the door. The tank said ya someone was at the door. I asked, so both f you guys had a knock at the door at the same time? No, they say.

 

As it turns out, the sentinel is a mother and the shadow tank is her 10yr old daughter. They play together. The fp went smooth, I gave a few friendly pieces of advice to this up and coming young lady tank, and she did great, open from stealth, didn't taunt first, she didn't have slow time yet, but she used force pull at the start of her rotation when it was called for, she held aggro great. This is a duo I would raid with. (we also had a slinger who did great)

 

Now I know not everyone on the interwebs is what they claim to be, but in a half hour of talking to this pair, I kinda believe they were actually what they claimed to be. Now, with all the funny, way out stories of bads and the crazy things we see in pug fps. or raids, if an 10 year old girl can tank better then the people in these stories, then that is hilarious. I also think its really cool a mom and kid pair can play this game together and do it good. Anybody else ever get put in with a young player that exceeded what you expected?

 

-Sandari-

Edited June 7, 2014 by jrwellworth
forgot to add a line

[Selenial]

Hey, thanks for your response and others I recieved. I can accept when I have been wrong or have not gotten the concept. After your post and another where it was stated that this was for MH/OH only, and talking to friends i respect, I realize that I was wrong in regards to the bonus you can recieve from using a higher off stat in those stated peices. The tech and bonus healing, my friends told me would be great in a pinch with say a 180 aim over a 66 cunning for a scoundrel. And guardians can benefit from the force power boost from willpower, so i was told. I think this is where we split in our meanings, and I thank you guys for putting me up on some game that could benefit us in between a rock and a hard place. And keep them awesome FiB vids coming.

 

-Sandari-

 

Glad I could spread the word!

This was an entirely alien concept to me too until a month or two ago, had never really thought about it until then, so don't feel bad at all, it's not really common knowledge in the game.

[BigBreakfast]

Got a quick one. TFB 16 SM, full pug.

 

People weren't taking it seriously, which kinda bothered me, but we were doing fine (until Kephess), and it was SM, so wasn't worried too much.

 

Did have a funny moment at Heirad, Ciphas, and Kel'sara. Dps weren't switching targets properly, so I called them out in chat.

Me: target

Player: wal-mart!

Player: costco!

 

Me: fire

Player: earth!

Player: wind!

 

Rgh silly people . Gave me a chuckle.

[that_Spartan_IV]

Oh jeez, I was playing a Heroic 2 with this guy that told me to wait after every. Single. Fight. Then got mad at me because I wouldn't follow his exact instructions.....so I went ahead and beat the Heroic by myself without dying once and left him in the dirt because I was sick of waiting for him to formulate a wierd plan that never worked when I WAS listening to him.

[Darkelefantos]

Oh jeez, I was playing a Heroic 2 with this guy that told me to wait after every. Single. Fight. Then got mad at me because I wouldn't follow his exact instructions.....so I went ahead and beat the Heroic by myself without dying once and left him in the dirt because I was sick of waiting for him to formulate a wierd plan that never worked when I WAS listening to him.

 

Can you elaborate? What sort of weird plans did he formulate? Did they include ruling over the world?

[fire-breath]

Glad I could spread the word!

This was an entirely alien concept to me too until a month or two ago, had never really thought about it until then, so don't feel bad at all, it's not really common knowledge in the game.

 

Exactly.

However I had a few days ago a run with a newbe commando and a newbe guardiantank in hammerstation SM. During the run we got to talk a bit about gearing since the sage 'healer' needed on a strenght piece. Because the sage didn't responded to any of our chats he got kicked out and we continued on our merry way.

So far nothing weird to note (which is a terrible shame that this has become the bar to measure against )

 

After the run I elaborated a bit more about gearing up commandos and tanks. The commando surprised me by his question whether cunning would be good for him too since all his abilities were techbased and cunning gave him the same bonuses as aim. This level of knowledge is really impressive for someone new at SWTOR.

Also I never noticed this commando was actually a dps commando since he only healed in the flashpoint. Only when he asked the sage to start healing I noticed it myself. Again, not bad at all for a new guy

[Selenial]

Why do I never get these cool stories

 

Closest I got is recently having a guardian tell me to get in my stance as a gunslinger.

 

I told him we don't have stances.

He says that he plays a merc, the mirror to gunslingers.

I say mercs are Mirrors to commandos.

He says No, that commandos use blaster cannons, and that mercs/slingers both dual wield, so surely they're Mirrors.

 

 

/LeSigh

[DataBeaver]

Assault on Tython tactical:

 

Me on my gunslinger and two of my friends on commando healer and sentinel. We get a scoundrel who is marked as healer by GF. However, he doesn't heal even once during the run, not even when the commando gets stunned and dies. Why queue as a healer if you don't heal? Especially for tacticals where your role doesn't even affect queue time.

 

Mandalorian Raiders HM:

 

Me and my friends with the same characters. Again our original tank disappears before the FP even starts. What's up with these people? Are they taking a random flashpoint for the GF reward, but then leaving if they get one they don't like? Anyway, we are fortunate to get another tank pretty soon, a guardian with 41k HP. His tactics are a bit off; at the first boss he moves around a lot with the boss. He mostly stays far enough from the dogs though so we don't have any big issues.

 

Then we get to the room with the bridge and the turrets under it, and he decides to skip them from the left, where there's a patrolling elite droid. He aggroes the entire room and we wipe. On the second try we get through, though due to some mishaps we end up having to clear the room.

 

When we are killing the last two members of the imperial boarding party, I notice that I'm doing about as much DPS as the entire rest of the group combined (the healer was doing some DPS too). I was the best geared of us, but I don't think the difference from gear alone should have been *that* large. It may be partially down to my sentinel friend having recently returned to the game and still relearning his rotations.

 

There's some slight aggro problems with the turrets at the last boss, but at least the turrets are getting killed before the boss moves to the next platform, so things are relatively good. We down the boss without any big issues. When we are finished, my friend (the healer) comments that the tank was rather squishy, so I inspect the tank's gear and notice he's pretty much entirely in rating 156 gear. How do you get 41k HP with rating 156 gear? He does have the right kinds of stats and even augments, so his stat balancing must be terribly off. I mean, I have a shadow tank in 162-168 gear, and even with an endurance stim she only has about 38.5k HP.

[BobFredJohn]

been playing alot on my sniper and sorc healer but, after increasing issues with HM FP queuing (especially on the sniper) I decide to jump on my jugg tank, though I havent tanked on him for afew months.

 

I therefore decide to do afew TFP runs to re-learn the basics. OFC joining a tfp run and asking to be allowed to tank seems to be an acceptable reason for kicking me, but I persist and finally get a couple of runs where the group is letting me tank (even though I probably dont need to).

 

I then queue on the 50 and 55 HM FP's and get a boarding party pop. As I zone in I point out I have been off the tanking for afew months and may be abit rusty, im kicked. I then get kicked from the next 7 groups, finally on my 9th group (aethiss) they at least give me a chance to show what standard im at before deciding whether to kick me or not.

 

bosses all go fine as, being a jugg its pretty much impossible to lose aggro on 1 enemy, its just grabbing the adds thats annoying. However the trash pulls arent so good with the ungarded dps (both are snipers, 1 geared around 168 and the other 180's with 2 168 pieces, ofc I guard the second of the two but with my 162/8's im losing aggro to the 168 sniper). He starts flaming abit on chat. Though the healer points out the sniper hasnt died and also has never even triggered his aggro drop. "what aggro drop?" Full 168's and no idea what countermeasures does....and I was worried I would look rubbish with my unpracticed tanking.

 

Still I get a vote kick from the 168 sniper which doesnt go through, at which point the other sniper initiates vote on the 168 sniper and goes through. Seems although there are alot of people out there who think everyone should be perfect or kicked, there are at least some who make allowances for those of us who are out of practice.

[Lord_of_Mu]

Had two rather odd groups in HM hammer station.

 

In both cases, the tank was not a tank. In the first case, I was healing the run and noticed that our tank was taking a lot of damage on trash mobs. Damage that wouldn't normally be noticed unless his gear was pretty bad. Well, he didn't actually have any real tanking gear to speak of, it was a mix of tanking, pvp and dps gear. Though I did ask if he a full set of tanking gear. His reply was, "I queued for both tank and dps so I'm wearing both tank and dps gear."

 

He wiped the group twice and died at least four additional times but we made it. He also liked running out of LOS and getting knocked off ledges by the last boss.

 

Next time I was on my sentinel, about to sing the praises of having a real tank, only to discover the guardian tank we had was actually vigilance spec and also had no tanking gear what so ever. In short there really wasn't much between me and him in terms gear to tanking ability.

 

Aside from the obvious tanking stance, taunts and some different cooldowns. I still spent a good amount of time tanking the run.

 

Once again we still cleared the place but I couldn't help but feel like it's an omen of things to come.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Lord_of_Mu