Tezeretz Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 can someone explain to me why you get LESS expertise using PVP gear still? i thought they fixed that. But if you use a saber with a +41 expertise crystal in it...you actually get less bolstered expertise then you would if you didnt use it. i've only seen this pre 55 cause i haven't played 55 pvp yet. But why the heck does PVP gear stil make you worse at pvp? thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princz Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Please look at the gazilion similar threads Thank you for using the forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRuck Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Bolster is broken. Two +41 Endurance crystals give me 20 bonus damage in sub-55 (haven't tried 55 yet). Edited April 25, 2013 by MrRuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezeretz Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Please look at the gazilion similar threads Thank you for using the forums Increasing visability isn't a bad thing. trolling however...is. Clearly BW didn't notice us complain about it in PTS. Clearly BW didn't notice us complain after 2.0 went live. Therefor as a community...it is our job to make problems noticed. If you noticed...i didn't whine or ***** of flame them. I merely asked a question. Thus hoping to prompt more debate, and perhaps have someone at BW confirm it themselves and potentially even fix it! Or just tell us that they have decided to make pvp gear pointless. whatever works...just something in response to an obvious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) This is just one of many red flags with the current bolster system. Edited April 25, 2013 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Because Bioware cares so little about PvP that they didn't even bother testing this crap, just like the whole repeating WZ's issue...sloppy and lazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princz Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Increasing visability isn't a bad thing. trolling however...is. Clearly BW didn't notice us complain about it in PTS. Clearly BW didn't notice us complain after 2.0 went live. Therefor as a community...it is our job to make problems noticed. If you noticed...i didn't whine or ***** of flame them. I merely asked a question. Thus hoping to prompt more debate, and perhaps have someone at BW confirm it themselves and potentially even fix it! Or just tell us that they have decided to make pvp gear pointless. whatever works...just something in response to an obvious problem. Man i bet you my subscription that there is no developer reading these threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezeretz Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Man i bet you my subscription that there is no developer reading these threads Agreed. BW only reads problems related to being able to buy stuff off the cartel. if there is a bug preventing a sale of any of there reskinned garbage items. its patched that day. If a core feature of the game is broken...meh. Edited April 25, 2013 by Tezeretz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) OK, I'll answer the question, despite the fact it's hopeless point-scoring like most of the responses. If you have any expertise on an item, the Bolster system assumes it's a PvP item and awards no extra expertise. Having an expertise crystal doesn't make your PvE gear PvP gear. So you either want all-PvP mods and crystal, or none. If you have one PvP mod in a slot, you won't be awarded the bolstered expertise you would for all-PvE slots. Having all-PVP gear will be better than all-PvE, but mixing PvE and PvP slots is bad. Also, contrary to what was claimed above, this was not mentioned on the PTS. Because no-one was playing sub-55 warzones on the PTS to see it. They were all in 55 warzones in various types of PvP gear. Edited April 25, 2013 by Wainamoinen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 OK, I'll answer the question, despite the fact it's hopeless point-scoring like most of the responses. If you have any expertise on an item, the Bolster system assumes it's a PvP item and awards no extra expertise. Having an expertise crystal doesn't make your PvE gear PvP gear. So you either want all-PvP mods and crystal, or none. If you have one PvP mod in a slot, you won't be awarded the bolstered expertise you would for all-PvE slots. Having all-PVP gear will be better than all-PvE, but mixing PvE and PvP slots is bad. Also, contrary to what was claimed above, this was not mentioned on the PTS. Because no-one was playing sub-55 warzones on the PTS to see it. They were all in 55 warzones in various types of PvP gear. This. Bioware should sticky this. It's common knowledge to those who are paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezeretz Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 OK, I'll answer the question, despite the fact it's hopeless point-scoring like most of the responses. If you have any expertise on an item, the Bolster system assumes it's a PvP item and awards no extra expertise. Having an expertise crystal doesn't make your PvE gear PvP gear. So you either want all-PvP mods and crystal, or none. If you have one PvP mod in a slot, you won't be awarded the bolstered expertise you would for all-PvE slots. Having all-PVP gear will be better than all-PvE, but mixing PvE and PvP slots is bad. Also, contrary to what was claimed above, this was not mentioned on the PTS. Because no-one was playing sub-55 warzones on the PTS to see it. They were all in 55 warzones in various types of PvP gear. so then they just dropped the ball big time... nothing should ever be all or nothing in a MMORPG. MMORPG's should be progression based. You earn/craft/buy a new upgrade and use it. while earning more. You should not need to wait to use one piece till you have all slots filled. Using one item that is designed to give you a pvp advantage...should give you said advantage. Either remove bolster...or fix it to take that into account. bolster in general is just bad MMO design. if someone wanted lvl playing fields...go play a twitch pvp game. Not a progression based game. gear should be more important. not bolster manipulating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 You should not need to wait to use one piece till you have all slots filled. Using one item that is designed to give you a pvp advantage...should give you said advantage. You can use one PvP item fine. It's if you start ripping mods out of/into PvP or PvE items to get a mix of the two that you start getting a disadvantage. Buy a PvP or PvE item and use it in PvP, you'll be fine. Using an item designed to give you a PvP advantage... gives you a PvP advantage. Trying to chuck PvE mods in your PvP item disadvantages you, so does putting the odd PvP mod in your PvE item. Not really seeing the "dropping the ball massively" with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarGame Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 To put it simply, they released a system that was much better in theory then it has been in practice so far. I have a character I just hit 50 with during double xp where the recruit gear is still the best I have in a few slots, but if I want to do a warzone I would be better off having nothing in the slot than the recruit gear. For stuff like this it would be a lot better if the system just ignored expertise that doesn't exceed bolster on each piece, as the idea of putting on inferior gear to get better stats is pretty dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeieveli Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 so then they just dropped the ball big time... nothing should ever be all or nothing in a MMORPG. MMORPG's should be progression based. You earn/craft/buy a new upgrade and use it. while earning more. You should not need to wait to use one piece till you have all slots filled. Using one item that is designed to give you a pvp advantage...should give you said advantage. Either remove bolster...or fix it to take that into account. bolster in general is just bad MMO design. if someone wanted lvl playing fields...go play a twitch pvp game. Not a progression based game. gear should be more important. not bolster manipulating. Obviously you dont understand what you quoted, or bolster at all. Bolster works on a slot by slot basis. So you can have a equipped PvP mh and an equipped PvE OH and bolster will acknowledge this and as a PvP mh and PvE oh and adjust the expertise it provides to each slot, BECAUSE IT DOES IT SLOT BY SLOT BASIS. I repeat, SLOT BY SLOT BASIS. Yet, if you, like everyone else replace mods, armorings, crystals, enhancements in your gear that is in your slot, and you combine the say a PvP armoring/hilt/barrel into a PvE MH, bolster will read this not as a PvE item (because you have expertise on the item) and you will not receive the proper expertise bolster buff for that item. Understand now? Not that I actually expect you to read this, because they explained this in the patch notes and you obviously didnt read that. Sounds like you dropped the ball big time... "Update your gray matter cuz one day it may matter"- Del the funky homosapien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeieveli Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 To put it simply, they released a system that was much better in theory then it has been in practice so far. I have a character I just hit 50 with during double xp where the recruit gear is still the best I have in a few slots, but if I want to do a warzone I would be better off having nothing in the slot than the recruit gear. For stuff like this it would be a lot better if the system just ignored expertise that doesn't exceed bolster on each piece, as the idea of putting on inferior gear to get better stats is pretty dumb What are you talking about? They fixed the naked bug. Secondly, MAX EXPERTISE YOU CAN GET ON PVE GEAR IS AROUND 1700. Partisan gear gives you 2k+. Inferior gear is PvE gear or gear under partisan. As for your 50, all gear is PvE gear until 55 (except weapons), so everyone gets around the same expertise; also who cares. In case you didnt know, pvp isnt balanced for any mmo pre level cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seireeni Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 What are you talking about? They fixed the naked bug. Secondly, MAX EXPERTISE YOU CAN GET ON PVE GEAR IS AROUND 1700. Partisan gear gives you 2k+. Inferior gear is PvE gear or gear under partisan. As for your 50, all gear is PvE gear until 55 (except weapons), so everyone gets around the same expertise; also who cares. In case you didnt know, pvp isnt balanced for any mmo pre level cap. He's saying that he has recruit gear on some slots and it would still be better to wear nothing than wear recruit, since recruit gear still has it's expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 (edited) He's saying that he has recruit gear on some slots and it would still be better to wear nothing than wear recruit, since recruit gear still has it's expertise. I'm pretty sure wearing nothing is better than BM gear (which comes with Expertise) let alone Recruit. Getting no effect from Bolster is just brutal. The only guys I see with unbelievably low stats (say, 19K HP) in the 55 bracket are all wearing old PvP gear. The devs did warn that old PvP gear is out of date, but they weren't emphatic enough about it. They should point out that even with naked bolster fixed, being naked is still better than wearing old PvP gear (anything below WH), and any mixed mod items falls into this category too. In fact I'd say all these posts about 'PvE gear > all' are from guys who were previously wearing mixed pieces and then switched to PvE gear, which is far superior to mixed gear (but still worse than PvP gear of equivalent tier). Edited April 26, 2013 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHate Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 OK, I'll answer the question, despite the fact it's hopeless point-scoring like most of the responses. If you have any expertise on an item, the Bolster system assumes it's a PvP item and awards no extra expertise. Having an expertise crystal doesn't make your PvE gear PvP gear. So you either want all-PvP mods and crystal, or none. If you have one PvP mod in a slot, you won't be awarded the bolstered expertise you would for all-PvE slots. Having all-PVP gear will be better than all-PvE, but mixing PvE and PvP slots is bad. Also, contrary to what was claimed above, this was not mentioned on the PTS. Because no-one was playing sub-55 warzones on the PTS to see it. They were all in 55 warzones in various types of PvP gear. Well put. All together and easy explanation and a knock against the Test Center. I haven't seen an MMO that has quite figured out how to implement an accurate Test Center yet. They claim they test in-house also, but glaring problems in every MMO I have played get through. I know it can never be 100%, but this game it would be obvious if you just tracked how many were on and where they were...you would know some of these things barely got touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotland Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 can someone explain to me why you get LESS expertise using PVP gear still? i thought they fixed that. But if you use a saber with a +41 expertise crystal in it...you actually get less bolstered expertise then you would if you didnt use it. i've only seen this pre 55 cause i haven't played 55 pvp yet. But why the heck does PVP gear stil make you worse at pvp? thoughts? Is it an old expertise crystal? (pre 2.0) If so BW stated they were broke. Get a new one to fix it I have 2018 expertise, using 2 new Expertise crystals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sauerkraut Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Man i bet you my subscription that there is no developer reading these threads And who are you? The unofficial BW brown nose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draekos Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I'm pretty sure wearing nothing is better than BM gear (which comes with Expertise) let alone Recruit. Getting no effect from Bolster is just brutal. The only guys I see with unbelievably low stats (say, 19K HP) in the 55 bracket are all wearing old PvP gear. The devs did warn that old PvP gear is out of date, but they weren't emphatic enough about it. They should point out that even with naked bolster fixed, being naked is still better than wearing old PvP gear (anything below WH), and any mixed mod items falls into this category too. In fact I'd say all these posts about 'PvE gear > all' are from guys who were previously wearing mixed pieces and then switched to PvE gear, which is far superior to mixed gear (but still worse than PvP gear of equivalent tier). Yup, everything below WH is obsolete and using an old stat budget. There was a dev post about this. If you step back and look at the game from a long term perspective it makes sense. It would have been a waste of resources to update the gear when a player levelling up will never use it again. Slight pain for those players who took a break from the game, but one that is easily fixed replacing the BM/Recruit stuff with basically anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 (edited) Is it an old expertise crystal? (pre 2.0) If so BW stated they were broke. Get a new one to fix it I have 2018 expertise, using 2 new Expertise crystals. Not sure what you're talking about... find a dev quote? When I took the pvp crystal out of my ewh saber, my char's exp went up in a wz by well over a hundred. I think the logic is that any exp on an item flags the item as non-bolsterable, at least as far as the exp buff is concerned. But the old pvp crystals are as good as any crystals in items with part/conq hilt/mod/enhancements. Edited April 27, 2013 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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