Belkiratwo Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I am against damage meters being included in the game. I don't like how the meters are used to belittle another person. As I read through many of these posts I have counted the words "Baddie" "Fail" over 200 times(they are referring to individuals). It is horrible to think that a game (meant for fun) can cause individuals to treat or think of others in such a manner. It would be a shame to add something to the game that would destory the ideals of Star Wars. This has nothing to do with damage meters and everything to do with the type of person using it. People that would belittle you over a damage meter are going to find other reasons to belittle you as well. They're just ******es and it is what comes naturally. Damage meters are an incredibly useful tool and anyone that thinks otherwise is simply ignoring the fact but like any tool it can be used improperly. /ignore is a good way to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinavast Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 ...every single serious raiding that has ever existed to answer your question. A large part of raiding is the theorycrafting done outside of the raid, without numbers to crunch there are is no way to improve. The fact is some people don't like to wallow in mediocrity and just say ignorance is bliss. I am fully aware this is a game but i'm a competitive person and i dont enjoy not having the tools to improve myself. Absolutely. For all those that are cheering because now you can play your snowflake spec - great. Slight joking derision with "snowflake spec" aside, you can do this with a damage meter addon ; Don't use it. For those of us that want to squeeze out ever last ounce of performance, lead raids that are a good experience with a minimum of frustration and player fatigue, damage meters and other addons help. Neither position is right or wrong ; Currently, however, only one position is possible, and that is what the addon / damage meter seekers want rectified. If they exist, you can still choose to NOT use them. If they don't, you can't choose to use them right ? Let everyone play how they want to play. -- Shin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlocc Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Is it me or does it seem like the only people who are complaining about damage meters are the people who do bad dps? I typically do very well on damage meters and therefore I haven't personally experienced any of the compliants made by the anti-damage meters crowd. It's just you. On topic- What if damage meters/DPS meters only worked in Operations/Raids, and not in 4-mans or less, which are far more often PUG'ed than the former? Would that satisfy both crowds, I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourniquett Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) Is it me or does it seem like the only people who are complaining about damage meters are the people who do bad dps? I typically do very well on damage meters and therefore I haven't personally experienced any of the compliants made by the anti-damage meters crowd. Its just you. That reasoning creates an arugement that cant be confirmed or denied, but is very convenient, but not really accurate. Plenty of good players dislike the idea also. Of course, some that hate it might suck, but some people are making it out to be the ONLY plausible reason. Its silly. I mean what better way to avoid the real issue, than just make an assumption: "You must be a baddie! ... l2p!!!! B/c if you were good, you would just love the meter. So that is the only explanation! ".. Its not accurate, b/c most people are giving examples on why its a bad idea, that have nothing to do with their abilities. Another thing I read on another thread that is a very good point that is being overlooked is that until we see what endgame raiding is like, we dont really know if add-ons are needed. its pretty much 2 scenarios: 1) (WOW style): detailed, and more complex boss fights with little margin for error, that essentially require add ons to succeed. Bossmods, dps meters to beat enrage timers, etc 2) (other MMOS): no addons, therefore slightly less complex fights that dont require "dialing in" raid composition to that level of detail, and reducing the encounter to a math equation or algorithim to succeed. We dont really know yet where this game fits into the scheme of things. Edited December 24, 2011 by Tourniquett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choboon Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I am a healer, have always been. As such i love DDs that actually know what the heck they are doing. But to be honest, all i care about is making it through the FP/Instance (add group content here) If i do, then why should i care if random guy x had a suboptimal performance by x% ? What i care about in the first place is having fun chatting during downtimes and making it through, meeting people in the process. And i am a highly competitive person, as such, after a while you will meet your own kind. They WILL perform well. And one of te biggest things for me is to work my way through content without tools holding my hand. By trial and error, by teamwork, by getting to know your toon etc. It is of course completely subjective but in the end my experience from 16 years online has been the following: If you give people the tools to be a ****head under the cover of inter anonimity, they will use them. Besides, what is the fun in reading performance from a tool ? I do that at work. Why do i do it ? To gain max perfomance with minimal workload. Not my idea of fun or for that matter, beeing a "pro", as many tool users like to call themselves. I could live with a self only tool whose output cannot be copy pasted. That way people testing rotations can do so and the jerks are not given tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosseking Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 How could anyone NOT want dmg meter? Unless you suck at playing, which obviously then shows in a negative way in dps meter. It just motivates me so much more in instances to try and keep maximum dps. Also bad players now escape the radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slant_DK Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I am against damage meters being included in the game. I don't like how the meters are used to belittle another person. As I read through many of these posts I have counted the words "Baddie" "Fail" over 200 times(they are referring to individuals). It is horrible to think that a game (meant for fun) can cause individuals to treat or think of others in such a manner. It would be a shame to add something to the game that would destory the ideals of Star Wars. It seems, you have only picked the wrong posts. Or, heck, let's call your bluff, you only read perhaps the first two pages. If you had read the PREVIOUS 2 pages of this page, you would have read a lot of sensible posts not grilling bad players. Instead, calling it like it is. However, you can choose to get hung up on phrasing or even one word. Or instead, try replacing "Baddie" or "Fail" with "person who doesn't want to improve" and "makes a mistake" and Bob's your uncle! And again, if you had read the previous two pages, you would know that dmg meters don't make people treat think of other people as "bad players". The bad players have only themselves to blame. Hence the term "bad players". It's actually not name calling. It's describing a player, who is just... bad. It's simply the consequence of playing badly. Can anyone phrase it clearer than that? I dare you. Scenario: Person A deals 2k dps. The raid average is somewhere over 10k. How would you categorise person A? I'm asking that, because I get the feeling everyone against dmg meters thinks people are falsely accused of being bad players, while IN FACT they rock the house! Only the dmg meters are wrong or evil or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krabcakes Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 How could anyone NOT want dmg meter? Unless you suck at playing. I think you figured it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 How could anyone NOT want dmg meter? Unless you suck at playing, which obviously then shows in a negative way in dps meter. It just motivates me so much more in instances to try and keep maximum dps. Also bad players now escape the radar. That's what I can't figure out. There's no logical reason for a good player to not want DPS meters. They may not use them, but they know they'll score high on other people's mods because, well, they're a good player. A player who is bad but wants to get better would want DPS meters, as they're an excellent tool for becoming better at the game. The only subset of people who seem to have a logical reason to not want DPS meters are those who are not good and have no desire to become better. There is no rational reason to fear DPS meters unless you score lowly on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liaskar Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I love people who think anyone against damage meters must be bad at playing the game. Yes, because no other cause for opinions are valid. Don't be so naive. I understand why some people like damage meters, I truly do. But I've hardly ever seen them used for good. Ive never seen a group stop and help a player who was under performing. I'm sure there are exceptions of course, but most often I've seen them used as obnoxious chat spams and something to look at instead of the battle at hand. The amount of people asking for more freedom in this game, yet support damage meters, also confuses me. Damage meters cause every class to have a specific routine/rotation that you have to use, or be forced from a group. It doesn't matter if your DPS is fine. If you're not using the specific order of abilities, you suck according to the populace. In the end, I won't care if they allow damage meters, because I just won't use one. I play this game for fun. Not for work. Yes, I understand some people claim that damage meters are fun for them, but I am still skeptical of that. If the community could handle damage meters maturely, then I think they would be a nice addition. But I just don't trust the gaming community as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsab Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I agree with the OP, damage meters ruin groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Its gonna be fun to guess who's AFK watching their favorite T.V. Program while trying to down heroics raids Really? Ran a ton of 24 man trials on CoH without a damage meter and we never had any problem figuring out if someone was afk and kicking them. The lack of any animations, movement, attacks, etc. coming from their toon is usually the first clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardoni Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) You mean people actually have to interact with their guild members and pay attention to what their members are doing in a combat situation? THIS IS MADNESS! HOW DARE THEY MAKE US INTERACT WITH PEOPLE! Edited December 25, 2011 by Sardoni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Really? Ran a ton of 24 man trials on CoH without a damage meter and we never had any problem figuring out if someone was afk and kicking them. The lack of any animations, movement, attacks, etc. coming from their toon is usually the first clue. You won't know the difference when I'm just spamming the same button over and over without even attempting to use a proper rotation. There is no incentive to do otherwise. The boss will die eventually, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightfireFox Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I would also be against damage meters. For the simple fact that people would not help underperforming players, merely kick them, thus alienating people new to MMOs. That and tanks have no use for a damage meter. Our job is to take the brunt of the damage, not dish it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzemancer Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 try enjoying the game instead of turning everything into a statistical analysis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerrie Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 hah i don't want dmg meters! This way I can be semi afk spamming one button for loot. So your right, it's great to PVE with no damage meters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 It seems that BioWare, true to tradition, are a bit more interested in catering to people who are into it for the immersion, than in catering to people who are into it for achievement. Brave of them; however, I can't see them holding up to the pressure. Even though every damn MMO caters to achievers and min-maxers, they'll turn this game into another achievement ladder too. I'm sure this game will go the same way eventually. Still, nice for a change, while it lasts, to be able to play without overmuch concern about numbers, and more concern about looking good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotant Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 With all due respect, logs are useful for those of us who do not group/raid with children, and who make an effort to fulfil one's role to an adequate degree. Indeed, this is just another case of a perfectly useful option being omitted as a result of potential misuse by relatively more ignorant community members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzemancer Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) How could anyone NOT want dmg meter? Unless you suck at playing, which obviously then shows in a negative way in dps meter. It just motivates me so much more in instances to try and keep maximum dps. Also bad players now escape the radar. Because some of us just wants to spend some time playing a game without being elitist and writing up statistics all the time just to get the best build and rotation just to get slightly better performance. But Bioware, feel free to make a few "I'm an elitist ***** who can't live with having marginally below perfect dps"-servers and let the people there have all the meters, charts, spreadsheets, gauges, valves, gearboxes and flip-switches they want, in the mean time the rest of us will be enjoying the game. edit: I'm an adult who's been gaming for 20 years who fares quite well in the group-content without dps-meters with random people, maybe some of you need to "trust your feelings" and "let go Luke". Edited December 25, 2011 by Nizzemancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latorn Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Its gonna be fun to guess who's AFK watching their favorite T.V. Program while trying to down heroics raids Or you know, you can actually pay attention to players and figure out who is doing what. I guess Damage Meters can help in operations, but I think they should be a totally optional mods (hardcore guilds would require you to have them). Other than that I am totally against Damage Meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 try enjoying the game instead of turning everything into a statistical analysis... That is enjoyment to some you know. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's a rules-based combat system where statistical probability rules the day - to make your character better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanoling Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 No! Enough of this begging for meters. Learn to do without or go back to that other game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 No! Enough of this begging for meters. Learn to do without or go back to that other game. The numbers are the _real_ combat output from our characters, not skill. To be better, to honestly become better, you have to see and understand the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanoling Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 no you don't. Stop making up reasons for having a dps meter ingame. We all know where this ends because we all played WoW. "LFM False Emperor min DPS 5K" Just play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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