Did the TTK..... Just get shorter?

[Turshek]

Try 10-29. TTK in there is so short that healers would probably be more useful dpsing. Haven't tried tanking there yet but probably the result wouldn't be much better.

 

+1

 

I got 2 healers waiting because there's absolutely no point doing a warzone with them. The tanks I saw in Huttball couldn't carry the ball for more than a few seconds.

[DarkPharohEclip]

+1

 

I got 2 healers waiting because there's absolutely no point doing a warzone with them. The tanks I saw in Huttball couldn't carry the ball for more than a few seconds.

 

I did a huttball match earlier, nobody could hold on to the ball. This was lvl 50 , coulda been lowbies there just didn't take notice to them.

[Turshek]

TLDR: lowbie PvP, who cares?

 

Me, I did at least 300 warzones on each character pre 50 in 1.X.

 

Thats around 75 hours per char that I don't want to spend in such a broken PvP.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Turshek

[LarryRow]

As far as my observations go, TTK is only a joke on sub-55 warzones, if anything healing is quite strong on 55 bracket and TTK seems to be under control.

 

Haven't gotten to 55 yet, but I think it's silly to ask the community for all this data before Bolster is fixed. I don't really see what the problem is, a first year math major could write a smart algorithm to bolster people appropriately. Until it's fixed, who knows if TTK is messed up due to new game mechanics and stats, or if it's just people wearing gear that doesn't bolster right.

[ArchangelLBC]

On the one hand, people can't very well ask for BW to engage them and help fix the game, and then when BW tries to do exactly that do nothing but ridicule them.

 

On the other hand, what happened to their ability to gather metrics? Surely you can pull those stats up yourself and process the data much quicker in house than you could soliciting our information (which, if we aren't logged in right that second or haven't taken screenshots is guaranteed to be inaccurate), and then going through the information you get one post at a time.

 

Still if you need data points I'll try to get on later and get some for you.

 

Haven't gotten to 55 yet, but I think it's silly to ask the community for all this data before Bolster is fixed. I don't really see what the problem is, a first year math major could write a smart algorithm to bolster people appropriately. Until it's fixed, who knows if TTK is messed up due to new game mechanics and stats, or if it's just people wearing gear that doesn't bolster right.

 

 

Never trust anything written by a first year math major. Ever.

Edited April 12, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

[DarkPharohEclip]

On the one hand, people can't very well ask for BW to engage them and help fix the game, and then when BW tries to do exactly that do nothing but ridicule them.

 

On the other hand, what happened to their ability to gather metrics? Surely you can pull those stats up yourself and process the data much quicker in house than you could soliciting our information (which, if we aren't logged in right that second or haven't taken screenshots is guaranteed to be inaccurate), and then going through the information you get one post at a time.

 

Still if you need data points I'll try to get on later and get some for you.

 

This is exactly my take on it. They have better resources to do this with, they are the ones paid to do this job.. Do these people even test their own game?

[Nothematic]

Howdy folks,

 

Thanks for all the reports regarding shortened TTK! I just wanted to let you all know that we are looking into the issue, and we could use your help - if you feel so inclined.

 

For those of you who feel that you are quickly defeated in PvP, please post the following information:

 

1. What level is your character?

 

2. While in a PvP zone and under the affects of bolster, what does your character sheet show for the following stat values?

A. Health (while bolstered) = ?

B. Endurance (while bolstered) = ?

C. Expertise (while bolstered) = ?

D. Armor Rating (while bolstered) = ?

 

3. In that same set of equipment, while you are NOT in a PvP zone and NOT under the affects of bolster, what does your character sheet show for those same values?

A. Health = ?

B. Endurance = ?

C. Expertise = ?

D. Armor Rating = ?

 

4. What kind of equipment are you wearing? Please list any modifications you've made to your equipment (for example, please note if you have added any augments to it or switched out any of the armorings, mods, enhancements, color crystals, etc. - and note what type of augment/armoring/mod/etc. that you have swapped into each slot of each piece of equipment). The more detail you give here, the more likely we will be able to find the issue that is causing your character to be quickly defeated in PvP.

 

 

For those of you who are critically hitting with certain abilities for over 9000 damage in bolstered PvP situations, please post the following information:

 

1. Which advanced class is your character that is able to critically hit for over 9000 damage in PvP situations?

 

2. What level is this same character?

 

3. Which ability or abilities are critically hitting for over 9000 damage in PvP situations?

 

4. About how often would you say the above ability or abilities critically hit for over 9000 damage in PvP situations?

 

5. While in a PvP zone and under the affects of bolster, what does your character sheet show for the following stat values?

A. Expertise (while bolstered) = ?

B. [Melee/Ranged] Bonus Damage (while bolstered) = ?

C. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Chance (while bolstered) = ?

D. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Multiplier (while bolstered) = ?

E. [Force/Tech] Bonus Damage (while bolstered) = ?

F. [Force/Tech] Critical Chance (while bolstered) = ?

G. [Force/Tech] Critical Multiplier (while bolstered) = ?

 

6. In that same set of equipment, how much expertise does your character have while NOT in a PvP area and NOT under the affects of bolster?

A. Expertise = ?

B. [Melee/Ranged] Bonus Damage = ?

C. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Chance = ?

D. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Multiplier = ?

E. [Force/Tech] Bonus Damage = ?

F. [Force/Tech] Critical Chance = ?

G. [Force/Tech] Critical Multiplier = ?

 

7. What kind of equipment are you wearing? Please list any modifications you've made to your equipment (for example, please note if you have added any augments to it or switched out any of the armorings, mods, enhancements, color crystals, etc. - and note what type of augment/armoring/mod/etc. that you have swapped into each slot of each piece of equipment).

 

We know it can be frustrating when changes are made to statistical values that have become accepted and expected, and we thank you for your help and patience as we further diagnose this issue!

 

1. Level 55

 

2. Health = 25766

Endurance = 2177

Expertise = 1889

Armor Rating = 4251

 

3. Health = 23373

Endurance = 1933

Expertise = 1382

Armor Rating = 3795

 

4. I'm in the Eradicator set, swapping in Partisan mods. I'm in the partisan helmet, chest, gloves, bracers, legs and boots. I have the Partisan implants and also an earpiece. I currently have one Recruit Weaponmaster lightsaber and another crappy green one from Makeb. I am not using any relics. Stats are with all class buffs.

 

1. Sith Marauder

 

2. 55

 

3. Force Scream

 

4. When I have all the procs up, execute etc etc.

 

5. While in a PvP zone and under the affects of bolster, what does your character sheet show for the following stat values?

A. Expertise (while bolstered) = 1889

B. [Melee/Ranged] Bonus Damage (while bolstered) = 570.7

C. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Chance (while bolstered) = 22.7

D. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Multiplier (while bolstered) = 67.02

E. [Force/Tech] Bonus Damage (while bolstered) = 1080.4

F. [Force/Tech] Critical Chance (while bolstered) = 28.65

G. [Force/Tech] Critical Multiplier (while bolstered) = 67.02

 

6. In that same set of equipment, how much expertise does your character have while NOT in a PvP area and NOT under the affects of bolster?

A. Expertise = 1382

B. [Melee/Ranged] Bonus Damage = 499.2

C. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Chance = 21.38

D. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Multiplier = 66.65

E. [Force/Tech] Bonus Damage = 837.4

F. [Force/Tech] Critical Chance = 27.76

G. [Force/Tech] Critical Multiplier = 66.65

 

7. See above (number 4).

 

 

I just wanted to add, despite what you said about the 55 bracket being unaffected, it isn't. Removing relics increases your health. I was playing a warzone with my level 16 Sage and I had healing abilities crititng for 9k.

[Burtlebe]

My charcters are in the 30 to 54 bracket atm. It comes down to if you got good healers. I have been in with a vanguard tank, Sentinel, Sage heals, commando dps and shadow. Atm Shadows and assasins are a bit op. Snipers can kill you quick if they catch you out in the opening and root you.

 

My sentinel seems the squishest then my commando. One match time to kill seems to be very long and then some it appears to b extremely short. I think we need to fix the bolster system first then see where things stand.

[Otrorto]

Yes exactly! either boost everyones HP to try and compensate, or make expertise give greater damage reduction then bonus damage.

 

OMG!! This!! Best real solution i readed

[foxmob]

I think it would be a good idea for a mod to snip the dev's post and make it the start of a new thread. his solicitation for info is getting buried by ppl who probably don't even know it exists.

[Kovaos]

For those of you who are critically hitting with certain abilities for over 9000 damage in bolstered PvP situations, please post the following information:

 

never:D

 

Ha! You beat me to it!

Edited April 12, 2013 by Kovaos

[SafeJungleFever]

On the one hand, people can't very well ask for BW to engage them and help fix the game, and then when BW tries to do exactly that do nothing but ridicule them.

.

 

They have yet to engage us in good faith. Ever to my knowledge. Remember 'within 5%', 'there are nod ifferences betwen imp and rep' at launch, 'commandos just need to pillar hump'? I could go on and on.

 

I will meet good faith with courtesy. Which is why I praise the community team members. Eric Musco and his crew are doing an amazing job.

 

I will also meet bad faith with ridicule. Which is why I mock the devs. You know, the guys that buffed snipers and stealth-buffed lolsmash?

[LingeringDrama]

I think it would be a good idea for a mod to snip the dev's post and make it the start of a new thread. his solicitation for info is getting buried by ppl who probably don't even know it exists.

 

^^^ This... If you are serious about having the player base gather and post data to help solve this problem.

[Glower]

Howdy folks,

 

Thanks for all the reports regarding shortened TTK! I just wanted to let you all know that we are looking into the issue, and we could use your help - if you feel so inclined.

 

For those of you who feel that you are quickly defeated in PvP, please post the following information:

 

Mighty metrics don't show these numbers? How cute...

Also try to visit ur PTS archive pls.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Glower

[TUXs]

On the other hand, what happened to their ability to gather metrics? Surely you can pull those stats up yourself and process the data much quicker in house than you could soliciting our information (which, if we aren't logged in right that second or haven't taken screenshots is guaranteed to be inaccurate), and then going through the information you get one post at a time.

 

This is my issue with it Arch. I don't mind him asking, but...it's extremely simple data for them to gather themselves. They're welcome to log in to my toons if they'd like and test them out. The numbers he's looking for can easily be found on any private server they have, yet if a player provides it, that takes a players attention away from doing the WZ they're in as they test all the stats. I just find it kinda rude I guess.

[LarryRow]

On the other hand, what happened to their ability to gather metrics?

Mighty metrics don't show these numbers?

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3tvhcd/

Edited April 12, 2013 by LarryRow

[ArchangelLBC]

They have yet to engage us in good faith. Ever to my knowledge. Remember 'within 5%', 'there are nod ifferences betwen imp and rep' at launch, 'commandos just need to pillar hump'? I could go on and on.

 

I will meet good faith with courtesy. Which is why I praise the community team members. Eric Musco and his crew are doing an amazing job.

 

I will also meet bad faith with ridicule. Which is why I mock the devs. You know, the guys that buffed snipers and stealth-buffed lolsmash?

 

I would call the dev post in this thread an attempt to engage us in good faith. I'm not saying they haven't made stunning blunder after stunning blunder in the past, but if they try and do better and we just decide we aren't going to take them seriously, then they won't ask us for help again.

 

This is my issue with it Arch. I don't mind him asking, but...it's extremely simple data for them to gather themselves. They're welcome to log in to my toons if they'd like and test them out. The numbers he's looking for can easily be found on any private server they have, yet if a player provides it, that takes a players attention away from doing the WZ they're in as they test all the stats. I just find it kinda rude I guess.

 

I dunno that I find it rude, but it's definitely inefficient, unless they're assuming people are putting their gear back on between pops so they aren't naked on fleet, and so they don't feel they can trust what they gather, but even that should be easily accounted for (surely they can tell when we change gear out).

 

Like I said, I'm not on now and would be unable to give completely accurate numbers, but I'll be happy to provide them later.

[Polymerize]

Howdy folks,

 

Thanks for all the reports regarding shortened TTK! I just wanted to let you all know that we are looking into the issue, and we could use your help - if you feel so inclined.

 

For those of you who feel that you are quickly defeated in PvP, please post the following information:

 

1. What level is your character?

 

2. While in a PvP zone and under the affects of bolster, what does your character sheet show for the following stat values?

A. Health (while bolstered) = ?

B. Endurance (while bolstered) = ?

C. Expertise (while bolstered) = ?

D. Armor Rating (while bolstered) = ?

 

3. In that same set of equipment, while you are NOT in a PvP zone and NOT under the affects of bolster, what does your character sheet show for those same values?

A. Health = ?

B. Endurance = ?

C. Expertise = ?

D. Armor Rating = ?

 

4. What kind of equipment are you wearing? Please list any modifications you've made to your equipment (for example, please note if you have added any augments to it or switched out any of the armorings, mods, enhancements, color crystals, etc. - and note what type of augment/armoring/mod/etc. that you have swapped into each slot of each piece of equipment). The more detail you give here, the more likely we will be able to find the issue that is causing your character to be quickly defeated in PvP.

 

 

For those of you who are critically hitting with certain abilities for over 9000 damage in bolstered PvP situations, please post the following information:

 

1. Which advanced class is your character that is able to critically hit for over 9000 damage in PvP situations?

 

2. What level is this same character?

 

3. Which ability or abilities are critically hitting for over 9000 damage in PvP situations?

 

4. About how often would you say the above ability or abilities critically hit for over 9000 damage in PvP situations?

 

5. While in a PvP zone and under the affects of bolster, what does your character sheet show for the following stat values?

A. Expertise (while bolstered) = ?

B. [Melee/Ranged] Bonus Damage (while bolstered) = ?

C. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Chance (while bolstered) = ?

D. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Multiplier (while bolstered) = ?

E. [Force/Tech] Bonus Damage (while bolstered) = ?

F. [Force/Tech] Critical Chance (while bolstered) = ?

G. [Force/Tech] Critical Multiplier (while bolstered) = ?

 

6. In that same set of equipment, how much expertise does your character have while NOT in a PvP area and NOT under the affects of bolster?

A. Expertise = ?

B. [Melee/Ranged] Bonus Damage = ?

C. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Chance = ?

D. [Melee/Ranged] Critical Multiplier = ?

E. [Force/Tech] Bonus Damage = ?

F. [Force/Tech] Critical Chance = ?

G. [Force/Tech] Critical Multiplier = ?

 

7. What kind of equipment are you wearing? Please list any modifications you've made to your equipment (for example, please note if you have added any augments to it or switched out any of the armorings, mods, enhancements, color crystals, etc. - and note what type of augment/armoring/mod/etc. that you have swapped into each slot of each piece of equipment).

 

We know it can be frustrating when changes are made to statistical values that have become accepted and expected, and we thank you for your help and patience as we further diagnose this issue!

 

 

How could Bioware not have done this already? This is straight up DUMB to ask your consumers to gather this data for you. Data gathered by majority of posters in this forums is prone to HIGH fallibility. This data should have been the first thing gathered while 'tweaking' the bolster.

 

As an engineering major with a limited background in programing, I can see that this would be the OBVIOUS first 'check' and there would be NUMEROUS other things to 'check'. You cannot make a program and neglect to run tests to see if the program you made is acceptable or not. Straight up NEGLIGENCE.

 

 

On a side note, I love the idea of bolster and I wholeheartedly support it. That does not change the fact that Bioware messed up the equations/calculations completely; and more importantly, gave the entire population a terrible transition to this new phase without any preluding explanation of what your intentions were. Your marketing scheme is atrocious.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Polymerize

[Plicitous]

He didn't spell it out but reading between the lines it seems likely that the issue is highly situational which makes specific issues difficult to wade through when you're working with an ocean of metrics. They're looking for patterns that will help pinpoint the issue and then extrapolate out from there using their metrics to determine a baseline, calculate variance, etc.

 

Seriously people, if you're going to complain about the state of PVP and insult the developers, don't be a jerk when they ask for your help gathering data. If you're not part of the solution, don't be part of the problem. The least you can do is stay silent and not get in the way.

 

Clearly, some of you don't understand how the business world works or you'd be a bit more understanding about the need to release, warts and all. You can iterate forever, eventually you have to set a date and launch. As long as they're committed to squashing bugs quickly and have devoted the resources necessary to make it happen, I'm fine.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Plicitous

[islander]

Also, it would be helpful to know what the other person's stats were who got crit for over 9k. I've seen some players running around with 1k expertise and I'm sure these players are fodder for people's "biggest hits" collections.

 

This. To the other guy, it's unfortunately impossible for me to know my advesaries gear/expertise. I just know these 8-9k critical hits arent nearly as common as some advertise. I honestly am not seeing any numbers in live different then on PTS. Everything has projected as I expected at level 55, including the naked PvP.

 

I couldn't foresee the 30-54 PvP bracket, though...as it didn't really exist.

 

David: I really think you guys need to dig deeper into HOW Bolster works at various levels. I don't think bolster is particularly borked balance wise at 55 (I'll hit 55 in game tonight, I'm talking from PTS experience).

 

It just seems like lower level bolstering is artificially augmenting people well past what they'd typically have IF they had gear on. Bolster effects need dialing back - universally. Start out small, like 10%, and adjust as needed.

Edited April 12, 2013 by islander

[SafeJungleFever]

I would call the dev post in this thread an attempt to engage us in good faith. I'm not saying they haven't made stunning blunder after stunning blunder in the past, but if they try and do better and we just decide we aren't going to take them seriously, then they won't ask us for help again.

.

 

David's a new name to me, so I'll give him basic courtesy and maybe even post up some data if I bother to WZ before this gets fixed. But there are others who simply have no credibility left.

[Riggz]

What the hell is the pts for if they wait til content is released to fix it

 

 

They act like the screwed up bolster is something new, it was like this day 1 of the pts. This game has so much potential but bioware keeps making these stupid choices, like not fixing bolster in the pts.

 

Hell we know if the cartel market had a bug like this it would be fixed sooner than bolster

[islander]

1

 

I just wanted to add, despite what you said about the 55 bracket being unaffected, it isn't. Removing relics increases your health. I was playing a warzone with my level 16 Sage and I had healing abilities crititng for 9k.

 

Again, this was known and reported on PTS. Ignored by Bioware (not pointing this to you specifically, nothematic).

The best PvP set at 55 was conqueror with empty relic slots.

 

I think the high damaging skills are a non-issue for the most part, most are situationally and on a timer.

Edited April 12, 2013 by islander

[ArchangelLBC]

He didn't spell it out but reading between the lines it seems likely that the issue is highly situational which makes specific issues difficult to wade through when you're working with an ocean of metrics. They're looking for patterns that will help pinpoint the issue and then extrapolate out from there using their metrics to determine a baseline, calculate variance, etc.

 

Seriously people, if you're going to complain about the state of PVP and insult the developers, don't be a jerk when they ask for your help gathering data. If you're not part of the solution, don't be part of the problem. The least you can do is stay silent and not get in the way.

 

Clearly, some of you don't understand how the business world works or you'd be a bit more understanding about the need to release, warts and all. You can iterate forever, eventually you have to set a date and launch. As long as they're committed to squashing bugs quickly and have devoted the resources necessary to make it happen, I'm fine.

 

 

You bring up a good point that perhaps they are just drowning in data, but depending on how accessible that data is, or perhaps how easy it is to search through, I still think it would be easier for them to gather outliers like that internally. For example, if they track DPS, they should be able to track 9k hits. The question is can they then see what the person who took the hit was wearing vs what the person who made the hit was wearing?

 

Obviously, without knowing exactly what metrics they do have, we may just be making some pretty big assumptions.

 

The rest of your post is spot on though. Several posters, myself included, have begged for the devs to actually engage us. Now when they finally do they get run out of town? Pure silliness.

[paowee]

This just shows how some people in this PVP community would rather point, blame and rant than offer to fill up constructive feedback even after it was spoon fed by a yellow post a few pages above.

 

PTS is done, i'm pretty sure you've made your point clear. Now why don't we move forward and post something that is actually useful instead of:

How could Bioware not have done this already? This is straight up DUMB to ask your consumers to gather this data for you.

Ok I have to ask, you want the players to help now? yet when those that went to the pts and said the bolster system was yada yada...

Edited April 12, 2013 by paowee