Did the TTK..... Just get shorter?

[Seireeni]

Healers are fine. In fact, they're probably overpowered. However, if you're the sole healer and you have no guard, and you solo queue, yeah, you're probably going to die fast and often. But, you know what? You should. Learn to play.

 

So if I'm not bringing a premade into a wz, I'm a bad player?

 

Please, come and hit that 750k in 10-29 bracket. Have been spending time there with my operative and I'm really feeling a need for an insta-heal, since people keep dying when I've almost casted my big heal.

[Seireeni]

this sounds like what happens when a pure dps team meats a pure dps team. Which should happen

 

On my server the imps seem to roll nothing but DPS characters, while the pubs have a health mix of tanks and healers. Imps get stomped more often than not

 

Our team had at least 1 full-time healer (me) and one sorcerer I saw occassionally healing.

[Genocidalx]

So if I'm not bringing a premade into a wz, I'm a bad player?

 

Please, come and hit that 750k in 10-29 bracket. Have been spending time there with my operative and I'm really feeling a need for an insta-heal, since people keep dying when I've almost casted my big heal.

 

I didn't say that. I never play premades. I only play with one friend and less than half the time I play am I with him. My healer is fine solo or just better with him.

 

Though, if anything could be inferred by what I said, then it would be flipped to say "Maybe you're a bad player, maybe you should consider running in premades."

 

Some people don't realize they have faults until every excuse is taken away. And, sometimes, not even that is enough. Well, the cries of "gear" no longer apply. What's next? Bolster? Everything being even is something to complain about? No, I don't think so.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Genocidalx

[Yelloweyedemon]

They need to change dmg boost/stat bolster in 30-54 wz right now. Besides that no TTK did not get super short, the problem is bolster is giving everyone close to 55 lvl dmg but not 55 lvl hp. Once you get new pvp gear you will have 29k hp vs 22k or so you have now. That extra 25% increase to your life will adjust the TTK to about where it was before.

 

The increase to dmg from the new gear is gonna be very small since stats hit much harder DR at 55 so all that will change with new gear is more life for people allowing for a longer TTK.

 

Yes right now it is silly, getting a 10k crit on someone with 20k hp is just dumb.... but with new gear(hopefully bolster fixed so naked is not best) that hit will probably be only 8k on someone with 30k hp.... and that doesnt seem that different from pre 2.0

 

Well the total health is not the problem. Even if someone has 29k, he will still die in seconds when focused. My deception assassin can do 20 k damage in 4 seconds when i open from stealth if one maul crits. After that i can just restealth and do another 10k in 2 seconds...

 

Also have in mind that it will get some time before people reach 29k. I have full Partisan armour atm, I just miss offhand, 1 implant and 1 relic and I'm exactly at 25 k unbuffed with MK-6 augments. Yes if i get the missing jewellery and augment if MK-9, THEN I'll be at 29k...

[Rendolphe]

Maybe it's just the good time to consider more the role of Tank in WZ since TTK go shorter.

 

Tank make teamate ''Healable''

[kamikrazy]

For as quickly as our stressed-out healer friend is dying, if his team is competent they will be doing the same to the enemy's healer. By the way, if you're on a sage healer, you should be using benevolence a lot more often because it got buffed. You need to be careful about keeping your force up, which may be very difficult if you're low level and don't have the talents for noble sacrifice.

 

It seems a lot of people did not read this thread through because I mentioned the greater importance of tanks in 2.0.

 

So listen up Seireeni: if you think healing is really tough, you should try tanking. Who knows, maybe you'll grow to enjoy it, but I will point out that if you feel overwhelmed by healing, tanking will be VERY stressful.

You are the team's designated punching bag and your job is to make sure that you're soaking up as much damage as possible. This means running around while swapping your guard on anyone taking heavy damage, taunting enemies and peeling/CC'ing DPS. Playing a tank can be frustrating because you will not be able to kill anyone outright, but you can help get a few finishing blows in. If your healer can't keep you up despite using every tool in your belt to keep him/her able to freecast, you will be 10x more frustrated than you currently are now.

 

I've seen A LOT of healers who haven't quite adjusted to the new metagame. Healers that used to be able to face-tank without having to kite much get owned now. You can't be a healing turret anymore. Playing together with your team is far more important and I'm hoping the new metagame discourages bad players from playing badly.

[Seireeni]

So listen up Seireeni: if you think healing is really tough, you should try tanking. Who knows, maybe you'll grow to enjoy it, but I will point out that if you feel overwhelmed by healing, tanking will be VERY stressful.

You are the team's designated punching bag and your job is to make sure that you're soaking up as much damage as possible. This means running around while swapping your guard on anyone taking heavy damage, taunting enemies and peeling/CC'ing DPS. Playing a tank can be frustrating because you will not be able to kill anyone outright, but you can help get a few finishing blows in. If your healer can't keep you up despite using every tool in your belt to keep him/her able to freecast, you will be 10x more frustrated than you currently are now.

 

I have a level 50 shadow tank, and I enjoyed playing with her very much pre-2.0. Haven't tried after that yet. It don't care about killing people and the problem with that one wasn't usually that I wouldn't soak up damage, it was that I was soaking it up too much (guess I should be tanking with juggernaut, but I really like my tank assassin, and to me having fun > results). Also in pugs, there's not any guarantee that a. there would be a healer in the team and b. the healer would be interested in keeping me alive.

[kamikrazy]

I have a level 50 shadow tank, and I enjoyed playing with her very much pre-2.0. Haven't tried after that yet. It don't care about killing people and the problem with that one wasn't usually that I wouldn't soak up damage, it was that I was soaking it up too much (guess I should be tanking with juggernaut, but I really like my tank assassin, and to me having fun > results). Also in pugs, there's not any guarantee that a. there would be a healer in the team and b. the healer would be interested in keeping me alive.

 

I think you should give your shadow tank a shot. I think all the tank trees for vanguard/guardian/shadow got buffed in terms of their utility so they can all be viable. I am personally biased towards guardians because that's what I run with, but a quick glance over the vanguard and shadow trees made me a bit jealous with some of the changes.

 

Yes, a tank is pretty much useless without a healer. And I understand the argument that if you don't want to run in a premade, you don't have to... but in order to do the business, you need a good tank/healer combo in addition to DPS that actually are able to focus fire. Otherwise, you'll just have to chalk it up to the other team being better than your team. If you get 2 or more people focusing you down with none of your teammates helping to peel off you, they don't deserve heals. But as I mentioned, most players don't even know the ideal spots to position themselves or to move as one unit. If your DPS overextends, they force their healers to overextend which makes them even more vulnerable.

[islander]

So after another 10 warzones (as a level 52/53) last night, my opinion's still the same. Without healing, sure TTK is slightly shorter. However, with a healer doing his job, I'm not seeing it at all. Overall damage is up, yes...but so is healing and people's health for that matter. Right now naked I have 25k health at level 53 (sniper, bolstered). On PTS at 55, conqueror geared, I could hit 29-30k health easily.

 

TTK with healing feels the same pre 2.0 as post 2.0 to me. I've done about 2 dozen warzones now, kinda skipped over Makeb (probably a mistake, in retrospect, as its slowed my leveling down).

 

I really don't see the issue some of you are seeing.

Edited April 11, 2013 by islander

[Seireeni]

I think you should give your shadow tank a shot. I think all the tank trees for vanguard/guardian/shadow got buffed in terms of their utility so they can all be viable. I am personally biased towards guardians because that's what I run with, but a quick glance over the vanguard and shadow trees made me a bit jealous with some of the changes.

 

Yes, a tank is pretty much useless without a healer. And I understand the argument that if you don't want to run in a premade, you don't have to... but in order to do the business, you need a good tank/healer combo in addition to DPS that actually are able to focus fire. Otherwise, you'll just have to chalk it up to the other team being better than your team. If you get 2 or more people focusing you down with none of your teammates helping to peel off you, they don't deserve heals. But as I mentioned, most players don't even know the ideal spots to position themselves or to move as one unit. If your DPS overextends, they force their healers to overextend which makes them even more vulnerable.

 

I'll be giving her a try when we non-early accessers get to Makeb. ^^ Haven't played with that character for a while, so I better run around Makeb questing a little before doing pvp so I'll again remember how to use that character...

Could also try my pt tank in 10-29 bracket, but I've been trying to heal in there and it's pretty much a nightmare, I'd be more useful dpsing, so I guess that would just be a lot of dying.

[DroidDreamer]

I'm not sure why there is a debate here. TTK is dramatically lower. Period. I was on voice last night with my guildies and we all agree that's the case.

 

You can quibble about whether you like it or not but there is no doubt that the PvP changes have dramatically reduced the time to kill another player. I can't even get off an Ambush on my sniper a lot of the time. I just have to spam my quickest attacks to kill someone.

 

And my opinion on the newly reduced TTK is that I don't like it. It doesn't feel as strategic. It has the die->-spawn->-die->spawn feel of an FPS and that's the experience I signed up for in an MMO.

[UltimateKrucible]

So after another 10 warzones (as a level 52/53) last night, my opinion's still the same. Without healing, sure TTK is slightly shorter. However, with a healer doing his job, I'm not seeing it at all. Overall damage is up, yes...but so is healing and people's health for that matter. Right now naked I have 25k health at level 53 (sniper, bolstered). On PTS at 55, conqueror geared, I could hit 29-30k health easily.

 

TTK with healing feels the same pre 2.0 as post 2.0 to me. I've done about 2 dozen warzones now, kinda skipped over Makeb (probably a mistake, in retrospect, as its slowed my leveling down).

 

I really don't see the issue some of you are seeing.

 

Well, last night me and another Shadow successfully took out a mara in 3 seconds tops. We opened with a spinning kick from stealth and he never got up again.

 

OK, this was 2v1, but I have never seen anyone die so quickly in a WZ, even when focussed by 4 or more.

 

I'm still seeing snipers taking down people in 4 shots too.

[islander]

Well, last night me and another Shadow successfully took out a mara in 3 seconds tops. We opened with a spinning kick from stealth and he never got up again.

 

OK, this was 2v1, but I have never seen anyone die so quickly in a WZ, even when focussed by 4 or more.

 

I'm still seeing snipers taking down people in 4 shots too.

 

Strange. I'm really not seeing most of this. At least not enough to make me upset?

I'm not consistently 4 shotting people - even as MM. The ONLY way someone gets 4 shotted is if they are at 18-20k health, have no defenses active, have lousy expertise, and I get a lot of crits lined up - which was much more common pre 2.0.

I've been typically second, if not first in DPS for my pug teams. Full warzones with standard combat, anywhere from 350-500k or so damage done. None of it dots. Decent.

 

BTW, at level 50 post 2.0 I was at 36.5 crit rate. At 53 now? It's down to 28.5. It'll keep dropping at 54 and 55 too, I suspect. Just like PTS.

 

I've not once been killed in 3 seconds 2 on 1. I have 25k health.

 

4 on 1 sure, there were a couple times last night I got the crap zerged out of me by HSP in a Civil War. I expect that to happen, though, especially the really bads that were queueing last night ( 7 wins on Tuesday night, like 2 last night). I run on my sniper Gìllies almost exclusively these days, medium armor, MM although last night I was lethality (and terrible at it, for the record haha)

 

edit: I guess if you crit on a couple of mauls back to back, and have someone else beating on them, on a 20k guy then yeah, I could see that being possible, though.

Edited April 11, 2013 by islander

[foxmob]

I also saw the post by someone saying Assassins can keep you stun-locked until death, and although I've not seen that myself, I don't think it's that unlikely. With the much lower TTK any kind of CC, hard-stuns especially, are proportionately that much more powerful..

 

yah. that was me on my assault vg. I had just blown my breaker blocking/cc'ing a sent on his way to our natural node in CW, but yuri stealthed by me and solo'd my capper teammate while I was working on the sentinel enemy. the enemy only cc'd me (hence the breaker use). he never even bothered trying to dps me. he went right for the cap. yuri came over (don't think he even re-stealthed), hit me once - POSSIBLY twice - then I was stunned to death. (the sent was capping the whole time. all dmg came from the shadow). so no. technically, I was hit with one or two attacks before I was stunlock solo'd.

 

again though, that's NEVER happened to me before - not since 1.1 when I was screwing around on Ilum in pve blues against champion geared ops (which I would expect that to happen in).

[DarthBama]

So after another 10 warzones (as a level 52/53) last night, my opinion's still the same. Without healing, sure TTK is slightly shorter. However, with a healer doing his job, I'm not seeing it at all. Overall damage is up, yes...but so is healing and people's health for that matter. Right now naked I have 25k health at level 53 (sniper, bolstered). On PTS at 55, conqueror geared, I could hit 29-30k health easily.

 

TTK with healing feels the same pre 2.0 as post 2.0 to me. I've done about 2 dozen warzones now, kinda skipped over Makeb (probably a mistake, in retrospect, as its slowed my leveling down).

 

I really don't see the issue some of you are seeing.

So what happens when you get into a WZ without a healer? I should have taken screen shots of the THREE I just played without one. Made me want to quit the game.

[UltimateKrucible]

Strange. I'm really not seeing most of this. At least not enough to make me upset?

I'm not consistently 4 shotting people - even as MM. The ONLY way someone gets 4 shotted is if they are at 18-20k health, have no defenses active, have lousy expertise, and I get a lot of crits lined up - which was much more common pre 2.0.

I've been typically second, if not first in DPS for my pug teams. Full warzones with standard combat, anywhere from 350-500k or so damage done. None of it dots. Decent.

 

BTW, at level 50 post 2.0 I was at 36.5 crit rate. At 53 now? It's down to 28.5. It'll keep dropping at 54 and 55 too, I suspect. Just like PTS.

 

I've not once been killed in 3 seconds 2 on 1. I have 25k health.

 

4 on 1 sure, there were a couple times last night I got the crap zerged out of me by HSP in a Civil War. I expect that to happen, though, especially the really bads that were queueing last night ( 7 wins on Tuesday night, like 2 last night). I run on my sniper Gìllies almost exclusively these days, medium armor, MM although last night I was lethality (and terrible at it, for the record haha)

 

edit: I guess if you crit on a couple of mauls back to back, and have someone else beating on them, on a 20k guy then yeah, I could see that being possible, though.

 

 

Thinking about it - Insanely fast kills are probably highly situational, although I think the TTK is lower, generally.

 

One of the problems is that very, very few people, if any, seem to know what the best gear set-up is (it's not PvP gear anymore, that's for start. Is it lvl 10 greens? Naked? PVE endgear without relics? 49 blues? I've seen all touted as candidates.)

 

This means there's a vast discrepancy in WZ with people running around with 28k HP and full expertise while others have 20k and 1000exp. It's not a level playing field, that's for sure.

 

 

And as an aside - I started this thread to speculate after playing three WZ in my EWH set. Which may account for why I suspected the TTK was shorter - it's the worst set going now, apparently.

[Monterone]

The best gear is end game PvP gear and I think it will all balance out at level 55.

 

The issue is as others said, 25% less health than we will have at 55 fully equipped; and also the super duper dumb diminishing returns that start at 50. I was doing more damage and killing people quicker when I was level 50 the other day than with every consecutive level.

 

Each level after level 50, I lost 2-3% crit chance and crit multiplier per level. Damage drops off a lot as you level. At 50 I had 78% multiplier and 34% crit in a warzone, at 54 I have 71% multiplier and 22% crit, big difference in damage output.

 

And the end game gear is not very generous with stats so I expect the damage to remain lower at 55, with an increased health pool. It's the only game I've ever played that has, what would you call it, anti-leveling? Each level you gain you get weaker and your damage output goes down. As I level I feel exactly the opposite, it's very amateurish.

 

So, yes TTK went down and seems effing broken at times, but I think we need to give it a few weeks to get geared. Ranked is what matters after all, we'll see how that pans out.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Monterone

[islander]

So what happens when you get into a WZ without a healer? I should have taken screen shots of the THREE I just played without one. Made me want to quit the game.

 

I'm not at all going to argue with you on this scenario. You are absolutely right!

If I don't see a healer on my team, AND I see more than one on the other team, I bail. If it's just one, I make it my focus to make them miserable.

 

Healers are definitely, defnitely more important now then previously, and they were really important before.

Edited April 11, 2013 by islander

[Soxbadger]

What sucks as a healer is when you zone in to find that you have 4 healers and then are trying to gimp out dps.

 

Ive actually found that its been much harder for people to take me down, but hard to tell about others as Im mainly healing.

[islander]

Thinking about it - Insanely fast kills are probably highly situational, although I think the TTK is lower, generally.

 

One of the problems is that very, very few people, if any, seem to know what the best gear set-up is (it's not PvP gear anymore, that's for start. Is it lvl 10 greens? Naked? PVE endgear without relics? 49 blues? I've seen all touted as candidates.)

 

This means there's a vast discrepancy in WZ with people running around with 28k HP and full expertise while others have 20k and 1000exp. It's not a level playing field, that's for sure.

 

 

And as an aside - I started this thread to speculate after playing three WZ in my EWH set. Which may account for why I suspected the TTK was shorter - it's the worst set going now, apparently.

 

It'll level out a bit once people realize what they 'need' to do. We're the guinea pigs, remember, we're still in early access (i.e. we find all the bugs) mode. As I posted just above though, I do think warzones with no healers are going to suck more then pre 2.0, though.

[islander]

What sucks as a healer is when you zone in to find that you have 4 healers and then are trying to gimp out dps.

 

Ive actually found that its been much harder for people to take me down, but hard to tell about others as Im mainly healing.

 

Yeah, sometimes you just can't win. I had a Novare on Tuesday that we won against a team with 3 healers.

My total kill count was....3.

 

I wish bioware would take their group finder mechanic and apply it to warzones - 6 DPS/tank, 2 healers

Edited April 11, 2013 by islander

[DarthFamine]

TTK is just way too short

[UltimateKrucible]

It'll level out a bit once people realize what they 'need' to do. We're the guinea pigs, remember, we're still in early access (i.e. we find all the bugs) mode.

 

Yeah - it's currently a race between the players and BW to see if we can come up with a recipe for gear that works before they totally gut the bolster system in some horrible overcompensating knee-jerk reaction which creates even more problems

 

I keep thinking 'Oh well, get used to it, this is PvP now'. But ...... dagnabbit - how did this monstrosity ever make it live? Surely they saw this coming?

[FelixGoldenHeart]

I for one love it. Deployed with entrench on, I survived 3 people nailing me with DFA and other aoes. I think I had a healer slapping me with a few heals, but I took down 4 people 2 of which were marauders. My health was at 86% when it was over. Granted many factors could have influenced this, i.e. people not knowing their class etc. Still, it was awesome hitting people for 8k-9k crits on ambush and takedown, hitting 3k-4.5k crits with snipe and followthrough. The new MM rotation (which isn't much different from the original rotation) is awesome and pumps out DPS like it always should have. I did something similar on my commando with the gunnery spec. My assassin performed admirably against 3 people, but I got my arse whipped by the scoundrel level 32 after killing his healer and stunlocking the other guy. It's really not as bad as people claim it to be, it's more high paced which is what pvpers wanted and now got. Be quick with your fingers, and use keybinds. I hear that's better, but I'm a clicker and keyboard turner so... if I can do it so can you.

[Brittaany_Banks]

I'm not at all going to argue with you on this scenario. You are absolutely right!

If I don't see a healer on my team, AND I see more than one on the other team, I bail. If it's just one, I make it my focus to make them miserable.

 

Healers are definitely, defnitely more important now then previously, and they were really important before.

 

And we are not queing because of the ridiculous damage that can be done to us and our light armor