Polymerize Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I've felt that snipers have been a tad OP for the last 5 months or so. & I know all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymerize Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 You guys are lucky I haven't rolled one yet. Jus' sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 FOTM = Cancer. Threads like this = Carcinogenic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) FOTM = Cancer. Threads like this = Carcinogenic. Yes because it is much better to see this crap go live, and wait months to see this is an issue, as people slowly reroll this AC, right? I don't think this thread changed jack, other then helping those that might struggle with the class. Every lowbie WZ now has half snipers in it LOL. What have there been like 50 threads on the PTS forum asking what the hell Bioware is thinking? This class is already good. To even suggest that I in anyway am at a disadvantage currenly (before these insane buffs) compared to another class would simply be a lie. Now I know that there are a ton of certain players who are on alert 24/7 and trying to protect these stupid buffs, but these people are a joke. It only shows how far people will go to get an OP beta class live. I remember when people said Deathknights were extremely underpowered before Wrath of the Lich King in beta...That turned out well hahaha. Why the hell am I getting a roll on a class that already can't be charged, has a knockback, a 30 meter aoe cc, a stun, and a ranged root BASELINE? This class doesn't need buffed...at all. I am sorry but when such stupid changes are made, and buffs like this introduced? The class should be rolled to the point that Bioware does something about it, because that is the only way it will sink in, and that they will change it. I mean I know the lead dev plays lethality but really? Is there anyone who honestly thinks this class needs these buffs? Hell no one will even play melee in 2.0 besides tanks if this crap remains as long as bubblestun did. If all they gave the MM spec was slow on the root? The class would have been fine. The knockback already puts a smasher beyond leap range. Lethality? That spec sure as hell didn't need a roll. The other pure dps class(marauder/sent) has one viable spec, and now engineering looks bawler as well? Did they spend half of this expansions development costs to appease Rob Hinkle? LOL Edited March 24, 2013 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totaltrash Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) <snip> I mean I know the lead dev plays lethality but really? <snip> Really? When and where? Because I would like to see that! Then again, lethality is for PVE or for scoreboard junkies, so it would be very fitting if Dev would play that spec in PVP. On a different note, we had a sniper epidemic once before, that was around patch 1.2. Then they all leveled up and got destroyed in 50 wzs, and just like that, the epidemic was over. I expect the same to happen again once people realize how severe the limitations of this class really are. Edited March 24, 2013 by Totaltrash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkXXIV Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) after reading this sniper sounds like everything i love about marauder but stationary with range. sounds pretty cool and like its a strong class. unless merc gets a crazy buff which I doubt it will, i will play my sniper after i finsih my marauder. i like dps alot. Edited March 24, 2013 by MarkXXIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Really? When and where? Because I would like to see that! Then again, lethality is for PVE or for scoreboard junkies, so it would be very fitting if Dev would play that spec in PVP. On a different note, we had a sniper epidemic once before, that was around patch 1.2. Then they all leveled up and got destroyed in 50 wzs, and just like that, the epidemic was over. I expect the same to happen again once people realize how severe the limitations of this class really are. Watching some of them leveling, I'd believe it. Probably much like marauder who would have the keyboard turners using smash as a crutch. It will likely keep the metrics down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) This thread is a very good demonstration why ppl suck at metagame (original poster as well). You guys should have rolled snipers IMMEDIATELY after 1.4 smash buffs. What did you do? You became part of the a very problem (rolled smash specs) instead of trying to solve it with the class that counters it. But you? You roll a class after you get bored to hell with smashing the crap out of everyone and someone tells you that sniper got buffs. Edited March 24, 2013 by NoTomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter_Mathis Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Decent Lethality snipers destroy stealthers, so even the stealth counters us statement is only partially true Decent lethality sniper doesn't even begin to touch a good Scrapper. Cleanse + Dodge as soon as the sniper uses Cull will remove both sets of dots as well as make the ranged component of Cull miss, nullifying all of the damage they've been setting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Decent lethality sniper doesn't even begin to touch a good Scrapper. Cleanse + Dodge as soon as the sniper uses Cull will remove both sets of dots as well as make the ranged component of Cull miss, nullifying all of the damage they've been setting up. There are tons of low quality posts on the forums. This thread has it above average unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroeconomics Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) This class doesn't need buffed...at all. I am sorry but when such stupid changes are made, and buffs like this introduced? The class should be rolled to the point that Bioware does something about it, because that is the only way it will sink in, and that they will change it. LOL Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it. In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro. The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR. Edited March 24, 2013 by Macroeconomics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) I dunno what are you talking about, but I easy kill with my 34 level little infiltration shadow on wz any 49-levels snipers... and any other class any level and spec Edited March 24, 2013 by TonyDragonflame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) I wouldnt worry. I have mained a sniper since early access and there are always lots of sniper is the below 50 braket. Once they get to 50 they get their assess handed to them and give up before they can properly gear and learn to play. Sniping is an aquired taste. Most dont like the area denial aspect and overlook the major strengths But with all this flavour of the month talk, i have rolled an operative and making life a living hell for anyone playing a sniper or gunslinger. sniper rage quits are becomming common Thats rigth, gtf0 of my class. damn fotm re rollers make me sick XD Edited March 24, 2013 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 This thread is a very good demonstration why ppl suck at metagame (original poster as well). You guys should have rolled snipers IMMEDIATELY after 1.4 smash buffs. What did you do? You became part of the a very problem (rolled smash specs) instead of trying to solve it with the class that counters it. But you? You roll a class after you get bored to hell with smashing the crap out of everyone and someone tells you that sniper got buffs. Snipers counter smash? Ha, thanks for the laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovaos Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Snipers counter smash? Ha, thanks for the laugh. Facetious or serious? My slinger mows down all these smashtards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggz Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 My sniper just hit 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkXXIV Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it. In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro. The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR. bioware needs this guy on their staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaa Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it. In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro. The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR. For the TLDR people: Bioware has no clue what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it. In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro. The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR. Freaking amazing post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber_the_Goober Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it. In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro. The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR. Re-posting this entire quote millions of times, maybe BEaware will recognize the flaws and fix them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) Re-posting this entire quote millions of times, maybe BEaware will recognize the flaws and fix them. Macro has been reposting that for many, many months. I'm sure BW has seen it. Some of us (myself included) think he's probably at least partially right, some don't. Either way, nothing will change. If he's wrong, BW shrugs - something else was to blame for the mindboggling balance changes. If he's right however, and despite his pointing out the flaws, BW have continued to rely heavily on this methodology for so long, then they are utterly wedded to it. Their stat analysis has become such a sacred cow, that no matter how many people poke wide gaping holes in it, nothing will change. Edited March 24, 2013 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taerrik Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it. In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro. The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR. This post needed a bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it. In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro. The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR. bump^ Edited March 24, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Facetious or serious? My slinger mows down all these smashtards. Could ask you the same. My smashtard mows down the cute and squishy snipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 As having a sniper since launch (sometimes 2) and just loving the way the class plays, I have to say I am concerned with the buffs incoming. My only hope is that other classes are getting some buffs as well to where it will minimize my beloved sniper becoming FOTM but I doubt that will happen. . It's too late man, right now the 10-49 warzones are so packed with sniper rerolls its't not even funny. Very common to see upwards of 9-11 snipers/GS per match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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