Can we get a response on the Ilum Boosting please?

[Ansalem]

Yeah you have the 2 intended options, quest or warzones which many friends at launch used the warzones to level since they were fast leveling back then. They never intended for low levels to do anything on Illum until they were at least in the 40s though you're actually directed there at 50 though they said they wouldn't ban anyone low for simply being there or looting chests if they could get to them. Otherwise they really have no business there per BW.

 

You are completely missing the point of what I just said. At launch they said we had the option to level anyway we want. One of those leveling methods mentioned was grinding mobs for exp. That is what is happening on ilum. Regardless of planet we have the option and now they are removing that option from Ilum simply because its too fast eventhough the entire point behind double exp weekends is to level faster! I mean honestly BW: we want you to level up really fast before expac...oh wait not that fast oh gnoes hotfix!

Come on bioware let us get our levels it is still no chore to sit there for 9 hours killing the same mobs over and over and over again...mindnumbingly boring...in fact I was borderline losing my mind by the end of the grind. The whole point is this is that mob grinding for exp/leveling was perfectly fine before...dont change it bioware.

[ivanhedgehog]

Translation: not pissing people off who give us money is more important than integrity.

 

the people leveling this way did NOTHING wrong. That being said, the devs dont want it continuing. no need for drama, no different thank tweaking a boss fight.

[ivanhedgehog]

Gotta love short term thinking.

 

gotta love running a business rather than a club. EA/BW is not a nonprofit. get over it. Game design has to facilitate a profitable game.The xp gained this way isnt that much greater than can be had just doing questing. I have seen people complaining about this sort of thing in too many games. Many of the ones that stomped power leveling arent around, so maybe it isnt as important as you seem to think.

[Asuka]

You are completely missing the point of what I just said. At launch they said we had the option to level anyway we want. One of those leveling methods mentioned was grinding mobs for exp. That is what is happening on ilum. Regardless of planet we have the option and now they are removing that option from Ilum simply because its too fast eventhough the entire point behind double exp weekends is to level faster! I mean honestly BW: we want you to level up really fast before expac...oh wait not that fast oh gnoes hotfix!

Come on bioware let us get our levels it is still no chore to sit there for 9 hours killing the same mobs over and over and over again...mindnumbingly boring...in fact I was borderline losing my mind by the end of the grind. The whole point is this is that mob grinding for exp/leveling was perfectly fine before...dont change it bioware.

 

Lvl 1s have no business being on Illum for anything including pretty much anyone up to 45ish. Not even really supposed to be there until 50. It's always been that way. You can grind mobs on any other planet it's actually intended on.

[Obirayy]

Regardless of planet we have the option and now they are removing that option from Ilum simply because its too fast eventhough the entire point behind double exp weekends is to level faster!

 

...in fact I was borderline losing my mind by the end of the grind. The whole point is this is that mob grinding for exp/leveling was perfectly fine before

 

They aren't removing mob grinding as a leveling option, they are removing extreme mob grinding from the gree event. Everything else is still the same and as you said at the end 'that mob grinding for leveling was perfectly fine before' and it will stay that way... Before the gree event came lol

 

EDIT: FYI you can still grind mobs on ilum where the dailies are.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Obirayy

[ivanhedgehog]

So just to be clear...intentionally using ingame mechanics in a way not intended by the devs, to gain personal advantage - is not considered sploiting then? Good to know.

 

people have been using the stealth in aoe exploit to flag people since the game released. I find it amazing that all the antiexploit rangers have remained silent about this.

[ivanhedgehog]

deleted Edited March 20, 2013 by ivanhedgehog

[sumuji]

So, I guess it wasn't their intention to have bolstered low levels endlessly grinding on lvl 50 mobs afterall? What a suprise! Unless you happened to have some common sense. Maybe the people defending it and acting l**** BW did this on purpose will eat a little crow but I have a feeling they won't be phased one bit. Maybe they'll find something else to exploit by Friday so everyone can bypass the planet heroics, flashpoints, warzones...etc, so all the new players and people on alts looking to do things legit won't have anything to do but planet quest.

[Vraesh]

the people leveling this way did NOTHING wrong. That being said, the devs dont want it continuing. no need for drama, no different thank tweaking a boss fight.

 

In other words, it was an exploit, and the devs are snapping it shut. They are, however, not going to penalize anyone because even more people will quit this game.

An exploit is an exploit. We now get to see that the devs have no backbone to penalize for it, for fear of their corporate overlords yelling about an even more dwindling subscriber/customer base.

[Obirayy]

In other words, it was an exploit, and the devs are snapping it shut. They are, however, not going to penalize anyone because even more people will quit this game.

An exploit is an exploit. We now get to see that the devs have no backbone to penalize for it, for fear of their corporate overlords yelling about an even more dwindling subscriber/customer base.

 

How about you look at it like this... It was an overpowered way of leveling so they nerfed it. Like when a class is OP in PVP - is that an exploit and everyone who's a smash monkey should be punished? Didn't think so. Stop complaining that they are nerfing part of the game.

[Twin]

Unintended does not mean exploit. No developer can think of every possible interaction that players will have with the game. Most of these unintended usages are completely fine, or can even elevate the gameplay. An example of this is that "combos" were unintended in Street Fighter 2, something which has now become integral to all fighting games.

 

Removing something also does not mean it was an exploit. There are plenty of aspects in games that not exploits that are deemed too good and are either nerfed or removed. Bioware thought Rakata Adrenals were too good in PvP, so they removed it from Warzones. That doesn't mean people who were using the Adrenals were exploiting. Similarly, I don't think anyone could argue that Ilum Pylon farming wasn't too effective, so it makes sense to remove it.

 

Yes, on rare occasions an exploit can prove to be a good addition to the game - but meanwhile you use that exploit to gain an advantage not known to everyone and not intended, it IS no less an exploit. It doesn't matter if it was a good addition or not if you used "combos" in SF2 while they were not intended, it was STILL an exploit. And using such advantages against other players should never be encouraged.

 

Using unintended ingame mechanics for personal advantage or to give someone else disadvantage, is very much generally considered an exploit.

 

Of course removing something doesn't automatically define it as an exploit. As far as i know, noone every claimed that either?

 

Your example with adrenals is just irrelevant. You are aware that the devs designed adrenals to work in warzones right? This was knowledge available to everyone and the usage of adrenals in warzones was working as designed and intended, hence no exploit. The ammount of boost they provided proved too much and they removed it, that was an adjustment or nerf if you will.

 

So yeah, think whatever you like regarding this Ilum issue, but if the devs started going by your logic, this game would have serious trouble in the future. And that is why i wanted to hear confirmation from the devs that this indeed was considered an exploit, even though one so minor that it doesn't warrant any action taken other then fixing it.

[Ratajack]

You are completely missing the point of what I just said. At launch they said we had the option to level anyway we want. One of those leveling methods mentioned was grinding mobs for exp. That is what is happening on ilum. Regardless of planet we have the option and now they are removing that option from Ilum simply because its too fast eventhough the entire point behind double exp weekends is to level faster! I mean honestly BW: we want you to level up really fast before expac...oh wait not that fast oh gnoes hotfix!

Come on bioware let us get our levels it is still no chore to sit there for 9 hours killing the same mobs over and over and over again...mindnumbingly boring...in fact I was borderline losing my mind by the end of the grind. The whole point is this is that mob grinding for exp/leveling was perfectly fine before...dont change it bioware.

 

You can still go to Ilum and grind mobs. They are only removing the bolster and thereby eliminating an exploit. If you want to take your level 1 to Ilum to grind mobs, be my guest. I do not expect he will last long, however, nor do I expect that he will be receiving much xp if you group him with several 50's for survivability.

[Twin]

people have been using the stealth in aoe exploit to flag people since the game released. I find it amazing that all the antiexploit rangers have remained silent about this.

 

I've seen threads about that too...i thought that was fixed though?

 

All i wanted was a clear answer regarding what the devs consider to be an exploit or not. There should be no greyzones in exploiting, either a certain type of behavior is considered exploiting or it's not -wether or not the effects are big or small.

 

-Even if really minor exploiting doesn't warrant action taken against players, it should be clear that the behavior isn't accepted by the devs.

[darkov]

I've seen threads about that too...i thought that was fixed though?

 

All i wanted was a clear answer regarding what the devs consider to be an exploit or not. There should be no greyzones in exploiting, either a certain type of behavior is considered exploiting or it's not -wether or not the effects are big or small.

 

-Even if really minor exploiting doesn't warrant action taken against players, it should be clear that the behavior isn't accepted by the devs.

 

I think it is pretty clear, they've said it isn't an exploit but they are fixing it anyway.

[DarthTHC]

I think it is pretty clear, they've said it isn't an exploit but they are fixing it anyway.

 

Seems more like it is an exploit, but one they're not going to action players for leveraging. Obviously since they're fixing it, it's an exploit and the devs find it unacceptable. If it wasn't an exploit and the devs found it acceptable, they wouldn't fix it.

Edited March 20, 2013 by DarthTHC

[islander]

Seems more like it is an exploit, but one they're not going to action players for leveraging. Obviously since they're fixing it, it's an exploit and the devs find it unacceptable. If it wasn't an exploit and the devs found it acceptable, they wouldn't fix it.

 

See, this is where I mostly agree. It's definitely exploiting if you're doing it now (or last night).- because you're willfully doing it knowing it's been officially addressed as an undesired consequence.

 

I think anyone Gree grinding last night and today should be banned, but that won't happen, so....grind away lol. Just not for me. I was all for it Monday night after I learned about it, but the minute Musco said it was unintended and going to be patched as of yesterday, I was done with it.

Edited March 20, 2013 by islander

[islander]

and this was different from before how?

 

Before, they were bad, but geared at least.

[Darksilence]

That's what I was hearing, too. I did not indulge myself with that method personally, but it was not because I did not approve, it was for the simple fact that I have no clue what Bioware's stance is on it and felt it was not worth the risk to find out the hard way.

 

Actually Boiware's only goal is to get as many people to 50 as possible for the new expansion, they don't care how.

I'm not sure way they don't just let everyone buy Level 50 on the Cartel Market as a character perk it'll have the same effect of breeding players who have no idea how to play their class and it'll make EA a ton of money (which as we all know buy now is the only thing that matters).

Edited March 20, 2013 by Darksilence

[Twin]

I think it is pretty clear, they've said it isn't an exploit but they are fixing it anyway.

 

Like allready responded to your post; No, what's clear is that they do consider this to be an exploit, though so minor it doesn't warrant any action taken against those who participated. Which is fine and what i wanted to know when i originally asked the question BW responded to.

[Ansalem]

You can still go to Ilum and grind mobs. They are only removing the bolster and thereby eliminating an exploit. If you want to take your level 1 to Ilum to grind mobs, be my guest. I do not expect he will last long, however, nor do I expect that he will be receiving much xp if you group him with several 50's for survivability.

 

Obviously you can't do that now since they removed bolster. Leave it to bioware to ruin a good thing.

[lazze]

hahahaah shame thats what you get for moaning all the time .. this dont effect me cause i refuse todo ilum cause it crap...

[Kubernetic]

Lvl 1s have no business being on Illum for anything including pretty much anyone up to 45ish. Not even really supposed to be there until 50. It's always been that way. You can grind mobs on any other planet it's actually intended on.

 

Then they shouldn't even be able to see Ilum on their galactic map, nor should they be able to travel to the planet.

 

If the game allows you to go there...

[Kubernetic]

In other words, it was an exploit, and the devs are snapping it shut. They are, however, not going to penalize anyone because even more people will quit this game.

An exploit is an exploit. We now get to see that the devs have no backbone to penalize for it, for fear of their corporate overlords yelling about an even more dwindling subscriber/customer base.

 

Try an exploit that starts flooding credits into the game or breaks the Cartel Market or some other deeply important game mechanic, and watch how fast they action/ban you.

 

This isn't about a lack of resolve. They just know from their perspective that this process wasn't anywhere near as "exploitative" as you claim. Off enough that it needs to be tweaked, but nowhere near critical enough to take the servers down or action people or roll back levels.

[Aurojiin]

It affects me in that bioware awards people for exploiting the system. They got thier 50s and stuff and dont have to worry about recorse for exploiting the system. I will not give them my money when they dont punish when something is clearly not intended.

So... you're upset because they got their 50s faster than you? In a game where you fight AI mobs and 50s are segregated from 10-49s in PVP?

 

This doesn't really make any sense, unless you're unhappy with the process required to get to 50 on your own toons... in which case you're paying Bioware money to do something you don't enjoy anyway.

[Urael]

Then they shouldn't even be able to see Ilum on their galactic map, nor should they be able to travel to the planet.

 

If the game allows you to go there...

 

There is a mechanic established in game right now they could implement to restrict access to illum. They could have a quest that has a level access like Quesh. The inoculation mechanic could be used for "authorization". The quest could be set to a minimum level like the one on Quesh in line with the quests on illum. Problem solved. They also need to have some sort of level restriction on anything that would allow you to by pass the quest mechanism ( Black Hole Passes?).

 

Another mechanic they could use would be something similar to limiting starting characters to when they can access the fleet shuttle. I guess the other means (Black Hole Passes again?) allowed there to be a way to warp around that. The point is that they have ways already in the game to restrict access based off of level or quest progression etc. They just need to find all the holes that their alternate travel methods may present.

 

If they do something like that then bolster could be turned back on planetwide because it would be for level 45++ characters to be on par with level 50s which would not be all that big a bump but enough to allow people to quest and minimize getting ganked if flagged ( well maybe give them a chance to get away ).

 

Normal progression under 45 (x2 for doulbe exp weekends). Level 45++ gets a boost (but they are closer to the upcoming content ( Makeb) and would insentivize them to stay and check it out if they could get to end game sooner). It would not be all that much a boost but give a new bench mark for people to get too (level 45) then "rocket" to 50 if they wanted to take advantage of this feature.

 

This would be an interesting compromize. It would also make things "work as intended" so that the exploit lable would no longer apply.

 

I still don't fully support how they resolved the situation because it doesn't bode well for future similar judgements.