Why Do I Get So Much Hate For Playing Light-Side Sith?

[Berronaxftw]

I am miles ahead of you on that one.

 

My Sith Jedi is a paragon of goodness and light.

 

i took a u-turn on my idea.. gone evil..

[Callaron]

It's your guy; play it the way you want. Tell the nerd ragers to f off.

 

QFT.

They have no business telling you how to play your character, if there were no exceptions in the Empire the devs wouldn't have added Light Side options to the game.

[sithlordcarnage]

I get the same hate from players on the rep side of SWTOR when I play a dark jedi. In all facets of life and all organizations both real world and fictitious there is good and evil persons, personas or personalities. Play how you choose to and if people accept it awesome. If they don't screw them.

[Keitanic]

I think the reality of it is if you look at the issue objectively, if you base your character on the idea that they are a 'real' person, then they would NOT always be picking one decision over the other. Even the nicest person will have that moment where they snp and lose their ****. Similarly, even the most evil person may spare someone at some point. Reality is shades of gray...and, as obi-wan once said, only Sith deal in absolutes....which...wait...that's the whole issue here....ugh.

[yoaktown]

Why you ask? Because those people are one demensional morons! They think that "I am a bad guy so I must be bad" and don't think about what the choices are actually making.

 

I did run into this when the game first came out. I was on my first character running the Esseles FP and they were dectating what your choices would be in every conversasion. I was like "ummmm....how about no." They all got mad at me and I was surprized that I was not kicked. But I just could not believe that they demanded that I pick #1 on this conovo and then #3 on the next. These people are farmers for levels, rank, rep...whatever. They don't care about the story....in the story driven game they are playing.

 

I have had fun with all of the classes making different choices. Before I make a character I think of who they are in this war torn world and what or how they will walk there life story. I finally just completed my first 50 as a Zabarak Jedi Knight. He is very LS becasue that is the kind of JK he is...but his black skinned zabarak brother (or son, I have not made up my mind on that part yet) is going to be a Jedi Consular and is going to be DS because, though he wants to help make this world a better place for the republic, he will be going about that goal in a much different way. He knows that some times you have to sacrifice one to save a thousand. He is not like is brother (father?) that has to save everyone no matter what the cost to you is.

 

Anyway I have rambled on long enough. Hopefully you will not run into that situation very much and like others have said just ignore those people. Its your story....tell it how you want to!

[Khalhazar]

Because people are idiots.

 

But this is a good topic to discuss from another perspective. I come from an RP server. There's a huge difference between:

 

(1) What choices your game-play character makes in flashpoints, etc. and

(2) What alignment your character is in roleplay.

 

(2) is different because it's frowned upon (for good reason) to RP as the Bioware plotline characters. This means you have a lot of freedom. Let's not pretend that "light side" means innocent sweetness and that "dark side" means puppy-killing child-eating evil. The one-dimensional characterizations in canon lead to bad RP, IMO. Lots of people love playing Darth Darksausage of Darkness, flying around in their ship made of ewok skulls, but it's hard to get in good RP with those people. If you want to annoy LOLEVIL and OnlyJediAreGood RPers, check out:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Potentium

 

(Yeah, I know that "canon" sources have claimed the philosophy is false, but so what?)

Edited April 14, 2013 by Khalhazar

[ZirusZero]

Because you fight the system. Don't stop fighting the power.

[maxetius]

You shouldn't. Darth Marr is likely a light sided Sith: Don't mess with him but he is a champion of the Imperial citizens who view him as a hero because he puts the Empire and it's citizens before petty squabbles or power grabs. [This was stated in the prequel TOR darkhorse comics] And he is in charge of the Empire post 50.

 

 

Jedi are monks. A light sided Sith is more of a samurai.

[Zardac_the_Great]

It's interesting.

 

My Light Side Assassin thinks she's dark. Until I really began playing my light Juggernaut, I was forming a theory of light-dark and dark-light.

 

Now, I have a light side Juggernaut who freely admits that he's light side. It's odd, but incredibly interesting. He reminds me a bit of Praven. Completely willing to kill an enemy, but has no interest in bloodshed for its own sake. He's talking about reforming the Empire because it's too dark, as opposed to my assassin who talks about reforming the Empire because it's too insane.

[Seireeni]

My juggernaut is on light V. She's a patriot and think's that even though the Empire has many flaws, they can be healed from the inside.

 

May I ask, in what server are you people who are getting yelled etc. at? I play all my characters with with a "personality", taking options that fit that personality instead of blindly following ds/ls, and the only time my choices have been commented was a. when I took a ds option with my assassin (female in dark V with dark side corruption visible), someone said something like "a woman with no mercy" and b. when my gunslinger picked the ds in the end of Esseles and someone said "I got double the light side points! Thanks for being in dark side".

[BradTheImpaler]

You shouldn't. Darth Marr is likely a light sided Sith: Don't mess with him but he is a champion of the Imperial citizens who view him as a hero because he puts the Empire and it's citizens before petty squabbles or power grabs. [This was stated in the prequel TOR darkhorse comics] And he is in charge of the Empire post 50.

 

Against power grabs, sure, but he still said that if he didn't need me for the Makeb mission he'd have executed me for erasing the records of my identity after Intelligence was disbanded, and for reminding him of how incompetent Sith are/were saved by Intelligence at every turn.

 

That said, people equate the Empire with evil because, for a couple of reasons, they find the whole idea of "good guys vs. bad guys" attractive. Same with so many societies---we, the good guys, can do no wrong, and you are the bad guys so everything you do is wrong. If you dare suggest they should apply the same moral standards to themselves as to their enemies, you're either laughed at or hated.

 

Or if they're deliberately playing evil characters and trying to force everyone else to, it's some sort of "Lol I wanna be evil" kinda thing, but still a misunderstanding of the Empire.

Edited April 15, 2013 by BradTheImpaler

[SithKoriandr]

Against power grabs, sure, but he still said that if he didn't need me for the Makeb mission he'd have executed me for erasing the records of my identity after Intelligence was disbanded, and for reminding him of how incompetent Sith are/were saved by Intelligence at every turn.

 

That said, people equate the Empire with evil because, for a couple of reasons, they find the whole idea of "good guys vs. bad guys" attractive. Same with so many societies---we, the good guys, can do no wrong, and you are the bad guys so everything you do is wrong. If you dare suggest they should apply the same moral standards to themselves as to their enemies, you're either laughed at or hated.

 

Or if they're deliberately playing evil characters and trying to force everyone else to, it's some sort of "Lol I wanna be evil" kinda thing, but still a misunderstanding of the Empire.

 

To be fair, people equate Empire with evil, because that's how it's portrayed in the movies. In the books I've read (been awhile but I have read quite a few before) that's how it was portrayed.

 

I can't speak for KOTOR (never played it) or the comics, but from just the movies, and figuring a lot of players may have not read those books, how else do you think they'd see it?

[BradTheImpaler]

To be fair, people equate Empire with evil, because that's how it's portrayed in the movies. In the books I've read (been awhile but I have read quite a few before) that's how it was portrayed.

 

I can't speak for KOTOR (never played it) or the comics, but from just the movies, and figuring a lot of players may have not read those books, how else do you think they'd see it?

 

PLAY. KOTOR.

 

Anywho, first thing is those are two different Empires, but let's set aside most of the major differences for a moment. I don't know which books you've read, but in the Legacy Era novels, there's one chapter in which Ben Skywalker confronts Luke and argues about his involvement in the Galactic Alliance Guard. He points out to Luke that a lot of the Imperials, and probably many that he killed, weren't actually "evil". The 'grunts', if you will, are just your average people stuck in bad situations, and some of them are pretty decent people (Captain Lorth Needa, the guy who took responsibility for losing sight of the Falcon and apologized to Vader, possibly taking the brunt of Vader's rage and sparing his crew). It's like the opening crawl in Revenge of the Sith says: "There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere."

 

As for the societies in general, the Empire has plenty of things about it that could be called "evil", but then so does the Republic. The point is that either side in a conflict will whitewash its own bad stuff and constantly remind everyone of the enemy's bad stuff, but the Republic is particularly hypocritical and in some ways more insidious about it versus the Empire which takes a realist approach and admits its out for its own survival, whatever the cost.

Edited April 15, 2013 by BradTheImpaler

[Jenzali]

Light and Dark =/= Good and Evil

 

The dark side of the Force, called Bogan or Boga by ancient Force-sensitives, was an aspect of the Force. Those who used the dark side were known as either Darksiders or Dark Jedi when unaffiliated with a dark side organization such as the Sith. Unlike the Jedi, who were famous for using the light side of the Force, darksiders drew power from raw emotions like anger, rage, hatred, fear, aggression, and passion.

 

At a basic level, the only difference is that darksiders draw their power from emotions.

 

If you're using "good" and "evil" by modern society's standards, the Jedi could just as easily be seen as evil for kidnapping infants, forcing them to cut all ties to their family, expelling all hint of emotions and anything else that makes us human, indoctrinating them with a religious belief, and obligating them to do unpaid work for the Republic (slavery) for the rest of their lives.

 

The above paragraph was written mostly tongue-in-cheek, but if you think about it, that's exactly what the Jedi do when they recruit children into their ranks.

 

Compelling works of fiction rarely have "pure evil" characters as the main villain because the reader or audience has no way to relate to such a character and it makes for an uninteresting story. That's why Vader is such a good villain, because he's multidimensional and he's far more than just "herp derp smash the good guys!".

 

Obi-Wan: Luke, you will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

 

One of the things that makes a great villain is that even the reader/audience can relate to them and see what motivates them. Vader may be "evil" at first glance, but his motivations are revealed to be noble if not somewhat misguided; He wants to make sure that his son Luke is not destroyed by the Emperor - if turning Luke to the dark side is the only way for Luke to survive, then so be it.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Jenzali

[cicdle]

A light sided Sith is more of a samurai.

 

That was actually exactly the way I am approaching my latest SW. I have learned that LS SW really means I am very cunning and take the long view to situations. LS = Checkers, DS = Chess it seems.

[ChaosPython]

Has anyone ever thought of the fact that the Sith seem to hate aliens so much yet the 'real' pureblooded Sith are technically aliens and not humans? That confuses me a little.

[momentDroid]

Has anyone ever thought of the fact that the Sith seem to hate aliens so much yet the 'real' pureblooded Sith are technically aliens and not humans? That confuses me a little.

 

Not all the sith hated aliens, Darth Marr,Malgus,Jadus never hated aliens and were pretty much the smartest sith around.

Also in the sith inquisitor storyline you will learn that Lord Kallig was pro-alien. Also he was later betrayed by tulak hord because of that.

 

[zzoorrzz]

Has anyone ever thought of the fact that the Sith seem to hate aliens so much yet the 'real' pureblooded Sith are technically aliens and not humans? That confuses me a little.

 

Purebloods are not considered aliens. They are equal to humans. At least that's how I understand it. I think in the past they were above humans in the hierarchy, but needed more manpower (or something like that) and allowed humans to rule the Empire as equals. When you hear term "alien" in imperial story, I think it means everybody outside of Humans and Purebloods.

[Euphrosyne]

Purebloods are not considered aliens. They are equal to humans. At least that's how I understand it. I think in the past they were above humans in the hierarchy, but needed more manpower (or something like that) and allowed humans to rule the Empire as equals. When you hear term "alien" in imperial story, I think it means everybody outside of Humans and Purebloods.

Well, you still see Red Sith talking about humans being "impure", "diluted", and generally implied to be of some sort of lower class. This is especially prevalent on Korriban, but it happens elsewhere.

 

This is not really coherent with the "racial superiority" doctrine most Imperial and Sith humans seem to espouse. What's even more confusing is that the High Human Culture on which this sentiment is clearly based - in an effort to tie the Sith Empire more closely to Palpatine's Empire - was a) a development of three thousand years later and b) intrinsically tied to Core Worlds regional identity.

 

Logically, why would the humans that ended up in the Sith Empire even have the ability to develop that sort of racial ideology, anyway? They would not be in the same position as the humans of the Core, who dominated galactic civilized society and culture. Arguably, they would not even be viewed as a distinct subspecies, given what is said about the genetic makeup of the citizens of the Sith Empire during the Foundry flashpoint. The most obvious other ideology that focused on human dominance was the Pius Dea religion, which would again not fit with the humans of the Empire because it broke down on Core/Rim boundaries and its religious precepts would be anathema to the Sith. So why the focus on humanity?

 

The answer, of course, is obvious, but it's not a lore-based answer or even a logic-based answer. The game's writers wanted to emphasize the connections between the Sith Empire and Palpatine's Empire where they could, so as to attract more interest and keep casual Star Wars fans interested. So they created connections where none need, logically, exist. The High Human Culture of Palpatine's Empire was shoe-horned into the Sith Empire, just like the so-called "Coruscant accent" and Imperial aesthetic motifs for everything from starships to uniforms. It solved the one problem - there are an awful lot of Imperial diehards around, on the forums at least. But it also created a new one that hasn't really been satisfactorily resolved.

[zzoorrzz]

Well, you still see Red Sith talking about humans being "impure", "diluted", and generally implied to be of some sort of lower class. This is especially prevalent on Korriban, but it happens elsewhere.

 

This is not really coherent with the "racial superiority" doctrine most Imperial and Sith humans seem to espouse

This incoherence can be quite easily explained. The current official policy in the Emprie is that Humans and Purebloods are more or less equally privileged. Though there are still some traditionalists among Purebloods who feel like only they should be in charge. The one you mentioned on Korriban is one of them as well as Darth Ikoral (who's more serious about it).

 

As we know the policy towards aliens has changed a lot during time beetween vanilla and Makeb, But even after Makeb I don't think it would be possible to see aliens as moffs or other high ranks in military or Sith order. Sure we can play alien Sith characters all the way, but that's probably not canon.

 

So what I wanted to say is - your ideas are correct for sure, but it's not that hard to justify these things in some way that is acceptable for most of the people.

[Yermog]

Both my SW and SI were light sided. I played it as my SI was light sided first because she was a slave, so her first tendency was to stick up for the underdog and help people since she can do that now. My SW is played as her daughter, so she's been raised to be LS.

 

You can RP your characters however you like. Don't you ever let someone say you're wrong in how you play. I like playing LS Imp best because when you help someone, they never seem to expect it so they're always so grateful. On the Rep side, you're supposed to be good and do good things. So you help someone, it's not a big deal. That's how it seemed to me at least.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Yermog

[Stormcloudx]

long story short you have your black and white view people who see republic=good and empire=bad, thus you should play them as such. Those of us who know better understand the lines are shades of grey. ALSO LS =/= good and ds =/= evil fyi. People just assume it does. THE ls and ds choices in this game are too simplified and story book.

[MalthazarCeres]

the empire is evil and the republic is good, but it doesn't mean the population is evil/good

see voss, the war between voss and the other race is all jedi's fault, you discover this in the empire quests...

nomen karr, he embraced the darkside, even being a jedi...

so your faction doesn't determine if you're evil or good.

another example... DARTH MALGUS

he was evil or good? he embraced the darkside, but he shows tollerance and respect for another races...

[zzoorrzz]

the empire is evil and the republic is good, but it doesn't mean the population is evil/good

see voss, the war between voss and the other race is all jedi's fault, you discover this in the empire quests...

nomen karr, he embraced the darkside, even being a jedi...

so your faction doesn't determine if you're evil or good.

another example... DARTH MALGUS

he was evil or good? he embraced the darkside, but he shows tollerance and respect for another races...

 

Not because Malgus would be tolerant or respectful though. It was only because he saw them as a tool to help him gain more power and destroy his enemies. Malgus was clearly evil, he just lacked some of his peers prejudices.

 

On the other hand Nomen Karr was a good guy all the way IMO, he was just a bit too emotional for jedi master.

[Euphrosyne]

This incoherence can be quite easily explained. The current official policy in the Emprie is that Humans and Purebloods are more or less equally privileged. Though there are still some traditionalists among Purebloods who feel like only they should be in charge. The one you mentioned on Korriban is one of them as well as Darth Ikoral (who's more serious about it).

 

As we know the policy towards aliens has changed a lot during time beetween vanilla and Makeb, But even after Makeb I don't think it would be possible to see aliens as moffs or other high ranks in military or Sith order. Sure we can play alien Sith characters all the way, but that's probably not canon.

 

So what I wanted to say is - your ideas are correct for sure, but it's not that hard to justify these things in some way that is acceptable for most of the people.

That is an explanation for how human-centric racism and Red Sith-centric racism do not have to be internally coherent. They do not, after all, constitute an official ideology (and even official ideologies of race in real human history do not necessarily have to be coherent: witness the Nazis). And sure, they don't have to necessarily match up all that well because different viewpoints are expressed by different people and because the notion of race in the Empire is in constant flux during the game period.

 

So yeah, I agree with you, sort of. It's not an official ideology, necessarily, and doesn't have to be, but enough of the people you encounter on Imp quests believe stuff more or less in line with similar beliefs that there's a legitimate argument to be made that it's silly that all these people haven't noticed how silly the construction of their racism is even viewed on its own merits. But there's still really no plausible explanation of why this racism exists in the Empire from a lore standpoint. It's another example of the writers playing fast and loose with the setting with non-lore interests in mind.

Not because Malgus would be tolerant or respectful though. It was only because he saw them as a tool to help him gain more power and destroy his enemies. Malgus was clearly evil, he just lacked some of his peers prejudices.

 

On the other hand Nomen Karr was a good guy all the way IMO, he was just a bit too emotional for jedi master.

Having played through the SW both DS and LS, I have to say that while his concerns and actions seem more reasonable if you play as a DS Warrior, what he does with an LS Warrior is outrageous even before the confrontation on Hutta.