zzoorrzz Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 That is an explanation for how human-centric racism and Red Sith-centric racism do not have to be internally coherent. They do not, after all, constitute an official ideology (and even official ideologies of race in real human history do not necessarily have to be coherent: witness the Nazis). And sure, they don't have to necessarily match up all that well because different viewpoints are expressed by different people and because the notion of race in the Empire is in constant flux during the game period. So yeah, I agree with you, sort of. It's not an official ideology, necessarily, and doesn't have to be, but enough of the people you encounter on Imp quests believe stuff more or less in line with similar beliefs that there's a legitimate argument to be made that it's silly that all these people haven't noticed how silly the construction of their racism is even viewed on its own merits. But there's still really no plausible explanation of why this racism exists in the Empire from a lore standpoint. It's another example of the writers playing fast and loose with the setting with non-lore interests in mind. Having played through the SW both DS and LS, I have to say that while his concerns and actions seem more reasonable if you play as a DS Warrior, what he does with an LS Warrior is outrageous even before the confrontation on Hutta. There is no real reason for racism to exist in real world too. And yet it still exists and probably always will. Maybe it's just human nature which doesn't need a reason to exist. And since Sith ideology ecourages to release passions and emotions of all kind, it only makes sense that this kind of thinking is much more developed there compared to Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphrosyne Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 There is no real reason for racism to exist in real world too. And yet it still exists and probably always will. Maybe it's just human nature which doesn't need a reason to exist. And since Sith ideology ecourages to release passions and emotions of all kind, it only makes sense that this kind of thinking is much more developed there compared to Republic. Something being irrational is different from it being uncaused. Obviously, racism is intrinsically irrational. But it does not spring up out of the ground for no reason. What we have in the Empire is humans who hate and oppress aliens because a bunch of other humans - who they also hate - oppress other aliens halfway across the galaxy. It's just Core prejudices, but decontextualized and transplanted into an alternative setting. And that's stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barxus Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 No idea but for some reason it FEELS right to be an evil sith / good jedi. Maybe its the opressive imperial music/archiecture or maybe its the kinda harsh sounding voice acting, but when I see that DS diologue option it just calls to me... I have tried to play a light side sith and I allways delete them before I leave korriban. The same can be said for dark jedi, I just have a hard time bringining myself to do it... Maybe I'm just weird. Get the feeling I'm not the only one though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highborne Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 as the title says.. get so much rage and QQ from people when i say i play light side sith saying "the empire is evil and your character should be evil".. that's BS the empire isn't evil (imo).. i mean sure it has a few bad eggs, but the republic aint no good guy club either.. Speaking as someone whose main has the title "Imperial Loyalist", I can say that the Sith Empire - taken as a whole - is evil, moreso than the Republic which is at worst corrupt. But this is no reason that everyone serving/working for/governing the Empire must be evil. Tell the nerd-ragers to take a long walk off a short pier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanaRyra Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I don't understand how people can see light side Sith as bad or weird. I remember people telling me it wasn't logical, but in the class stories, both of them, Bioware gives you a small reason your character might be lightsided. In sith warrior, if you pick a certain dialogue option in the side quest where you're asked to find and eliminate 'traitors' to the empire on korriban, its revealed that your character comes from a line of sith/people loyal to the Empire. You are expected to become sith. There wouldn't any options from your family, they would ship you to the academy with no question if you were force sensitive [which you are obviously] Your character can become a sith, but possibly only to please your family and to serve the empire in a 'more powerful' manner. For sith inquisitor, you were a slave sent to the planet and told if you fail, if you don't become sith, you will die. And that's that. You are given no option, and if becoming sith or dying were the only options available to me, no matter my morals, i would want to live on. Though i might be biased with my extreme fear of death. Your character wants to live, succeeding and becoming sith is their only option. But that's just my view. For both the sith stories, i see the possibility for them to be lightsided due to their apparent background before you took control. Of course this is outside of normal roleplay where people don't play the class stories normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady-Jean Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Honestly I find a great deal of joy in being counter the expected. So my republic alts go fairly dark whenever it suits them while my sith alts run about being as noble as angels. Certainly gets some interesting dialog in the game. Bioware did a fantastic job of creating a flow to the story that accounts for your character being light side or dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathenblood Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 No stick from me over this, but the empire is evil, it's racist and warmongering, these are evil facets, there are good people in there but the empire itself is evil. I agree about the corruption in the republic though, it is deep and getting to Sith levels of vileness. Racism and slavery isn't evil by no means is it morally correct but that's perfectly legal in their society. Thomas Jeferson had slaves no one called him evil because that was the social norm back then just like how it is in the empire. Racism isn't evil either just because you dislike something doesn't make you evil. I don't like mayo. Does that make me evil, no. A more relevant example is one of my friends dad hates all Mexicans because when he was working a co worker( who was Mexican) wasn't paying attention and crushed his toes and now he's missing 2 toes. Should that be a reason to hate all Mexicans because of the actions of one, of course not( its actually pretty stupid if you ask me), but it doesnt make him evil. He's actually one of nicest people I've met. Point being racism and slavery aren't evil. Just not today's norm, and because of that people shun it just like how the empire shuns aliens, it's not in their norm to like aliens, so that is just as closed minded because now you're the one saying these people are evil and wrong because of their social norms and beliefs. Can't imagine if you ever tried traveling to a foreign county. There are tons of things that aren't going to be your social norm. That being said the corruption, sabotaging, and power plays against the citizens of your faction are wrong but both sides do it just far more promo ate within the empire. Especially between the sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovi-Scarlet Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I play a light side Sith because she's a sassy little lady who doesn't like being told what to do by a bunch of old guys stuck in the past. She's the type who enjoys keeping people in her pocket rather than killing them or letting them go (i.e. she kept Lord Rathari around and had the republic troopers help her with defeating him in the first place.) I like the idea that someone raised on the ideals of the Empire can have ideals of their own in spite of that. Plus I really hate Baras so it's fun to pick the options that piss him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphrosyne Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) Racism and slavery isn't evil by no means is it morally correct but that's perfectly legal in their society. Thomas Jeferson had slaves no one called him evil because that was the social norm back then just like how it is in the empire. Racism isn't evil either just because you dislike something doesn't make you evil. I don't like mayo. Does that make me evil, no. A more relevant example is one of my friends dad hates all Mexicans because when he was working a co worker( who was Mexican) wasn't paying attention and crushed his toes and now he's missing 2 toes. Should that be a reason to hate all Mexicans because of the actions of one, of course not( its actually pretty stupid if you ask me), but it doesnt make him evil. He's actually one of nicest people I've met. Point being racism and slavery aren't evil. Just not today's norm, and because of that people shun it just like how the empire shuns aliens, it's not in their norm to like aliens, so that is just as closed minded because now you're the one saying these people are evil and wrong because of their social norms and beliefs. Can't imagine if you ever tried traveling to a foreign county. There are tons of things that aren't going to be your social norm. That being said the corruption, sabotaging, and power plays against the citizens of your faction are wrong but both sides do it just far more promo ate within the empire. Especially between the sith. You say that as though people back in the late eighteenth century didn't think that racism and slavery were evil things, and that people back during Jefferson's administration didn't consider him the devil incarnate. (Actually, they didn't, technically. They thought that Napoleon was the Antichrist, and Jefferson was merely his willing, obedient handboy.) You should look them up. Federalists. The non-lunatic party of early American history. That's not getting into the notion that you think that racism and slavery weren't evil just because some people might have not considered them such in their own context, which is a profoundly silly notion, like saying murder isn't an evil thing because death cults have existed and in that context murder is just A-OKAY. Edited June 27, 2013 by Euphrosyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horaciozhao Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 tell me about it, one of the guy in fp told me : you suck, you no sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzoorrzz Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Racism and slavery isn't evil by no means is it morally correct but that's perfectly legal in their society. Thomas Jeferson had slaves no one called him evil because that was the social norm back then just like how it is in the empire. Racism isn't evil either just because you dislike something doesn't make you evil. I don't like mayo. Does that make me evil, no. A more relevant example is one of my friends dad hates all Mexicans because when he was working a co worker( who was Mexican) wasn't paying attention and crushed his toes and now he's missing 2 toes. Should that be a reason to hate all Mexicans because of the actions of one, of course not( its actually pretty stupid if you ask me), but it doesnt make him evil. He's actually one of nicest people I've met. Point being racism and slavery aren't evil. Just not today's norm, and because of that people shun it just like how the empire shuns aliens, it's not in their norm to like aliens, so that is just as closed minded because now you're the one saying these people are evil and wrong because of their social norms and beliefs. Can't imagine if you ever tried traveling to a foreign county. There are tons of things that aren't going to be your social norm. That being said the corruption, sabotaging, and power plays against the citizens of your faction are wrong but both sides do it just far more promo ate within the empire. Especially between the sith. You're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 tell me about it, one of the guy in fp told me : you suck, you no sith. oh no he didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxtes Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 You want to know what is really evil to choose the LS option to save ambassador on Esseles when you are the one who convinced others to go DS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Point being racism and slavery aren't evil. Just not today's norm, Sorry, but I disagree, based on Philosophy : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative It's right that people didn't consider Slavery to be "evil" - but they also didn't follow any philosophical thought that would lead into the "everyone should be free" thing. People who are not in danger of becoming Slaves themselves are not likely to develop *any* kind of philosophy saying that anyone should be free. And if they do, then they might even be "aliens", so to say. Being bullied by profiteers from Slavery, who don't want Slavery to go away because it's clear profits for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 i will sometimes yell boo but in a joking way (ex: Boo ) during fp but it doesn't bother me. if im on my RP server i do go into it more if my character is evil but hay that's rp. the point is if someone starts laying into you over your choice they are idiots if you get a occasional boo or awww i wouldn't take it seriously its just friendly banter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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