Styxx Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 The price is too low...I mean,seriously.. you got them by their loved ones... you should ask at least 1 mil... per minute... Get your whole guild online and make as many groups as you can, then enforce payment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_icer Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 you guys do know theres a teleport in right? and that gives you a good min worth of stealth to move away and start doing the quests. from what you said they are just camping at the 2 entrances, nothing to stop you teleporting in behind and doing the quests. if they are only blocking the middle area around the pylon then big deal its 1 quest that gives all of 250 boost and 100 warzone coms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaption Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 you and the OP may have a valid point only in the fact that those people were in multiple groups and the area is intended for 4 man free for all PVP. as far as the other stuff... the pylon is no dif than the objectives in a WZ. the intention is for people to fight over the pylon for control of it. as i said, you may have a point about multiple groups working together, but that is it. There's a difference between fighting to control the pylon and charging for access. FFA pvp does not mean extortion is acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 There's a difference between fighting to control the pylon and charging for access. FFA pvp does not mean extortion is acceptable. Why? Asking for money makes your weapon deal less damage? Or puts a debuff on your expertise? If it is not acceptable, make a posse and kill `em about 10000 times, then ask THEM for money... if you can, that is.. or don`t go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldriq Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 you and the OP may have a valid point only in the fact that those people were in multiple groups and the area is intended for 4 man free for all PVP. as far as the other stuff... the pylon is no dif than the objectives in a WZ. the intention is for people to fight over the pylon for control of it. as i said, you may have a point about multiple groups working together, but that is it. If it was a 4 man group I would not of cared one way or the other. The event seems like it was designed especially for that I would still call them d bags for trying to extort money as that is really low but I would of also said given the size of the group you could easily dislodge them. Now over 12 people if they are from a pvp guild is going to be a beast of different kind. Most guilds I know all their members are War Hero or really close to it you get 12 of those with the associated skill and they got that node locked down, period. Also glad you allow that we may just may have a point. Lets take it up a notch if I am in a war zone guarding a node is it okay if I whisper the other team and ask for credits to give them access to the node? Or how about back in the old days with win trading, in my mind it seems the same they have control of it but if you give them money they will relinquish it? This is not PvP where you fight to win this is if you give me something I want I will let you win. No different than Ranked Team trading wins, or the old Valor trading on Ilium and both of those people have been banned for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaRB Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 There's a difference between fighting to control the pylon and charging for access. FFA pvp does not mean extortion is acceptable. the point is to PVP. if they control the pylon area, then form a group and PVP until you take it away from them. it really doesnt mater if they are asking you for credits or not. the only thing in question is, are they exploiting the area by having multiple groups working together instead of playing just as 4 man groups FFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Lets take it up a notch if I am in a war zone guarding a node is it okay if I whisper the other team and ask for credits to give them access to the node? You would be stealing from your own pocket, as that node might be lost, and with it the game, making you win less comms, since nobody right in their head would pay ... the only thing in question is, are they exploiting the area by having multiple groups working together instead of playing just as 4 man groups FFA. They don`t, as there is nowhere stated that alliances are banned, or that groups from the same guild, or friends MUST attack each-other. Even if it was, which is utopic, you can`t enforce it. Edited February 15, 2013 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaRB Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 If it was a 4 man group I would not of cared one way or the other. The event seems like it was designed especially for that I would still call them d bags for trying to extort money as that is really low but I would of also said given the size of the group you could easily dislodge them. Now over 12 people if they are from a pvp guild is going to be a beast of different kind. Most guilds I know all their members are War Hero or really close to it you get 12 of those with the associated skill and they got that node locked down, period. Also glad you allow that we may just may have a point. Lets take it up a notch if I am in a war zone guarding a node is it okay if I whisper the other team and ask for credits to give them access to the node? Or how about back in the old days with win trading, in my mind it seems the same they have control of it but if you give them money they will relinquish it? This is not PvP where you fight to win this is if you give me something I want I will let you win. No different than Ranked Team trading wins, or the old Valor trading on Ilium and both of those people have been banned for. hmmm. i guess in that context you may also have a point. although, both the people paying for access and the people charging for access would be equally at fault and subject to bans i guess. either way, i agree that it is pretty slimly thing. but i also think people waiting in line and not PVPing is pretty lame too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banegio Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Bottomline... Behavior such as this will and have caused longterm problems for this world. When people get ganked, it creates a roadblock to having fun. Shortterm it can be fun and challenging, longterm server populations shrink. Some people respond that Ilum is a pvp world, those same people later lament playing on dead servers. I won't make any arguements about fairness, or pvp worlds should be pvp, nor will I love on the carebears loving their pve... it's all good. Just beware, there are not enough servers left, to consolidate, to make this game playable. Play nice, or play by yourself. History will repeat. Thats the (by)product of "organic" the dev intended. Well actually they didn't intend for anything but allow for natural evloving of pvp community. Not very different to the real world that the rules/laws are never perfect and are always being amended to chase the ever changing human behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldriq Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 You would be stealing from your own pocket, as that node might be lost, and with it the game, making you win less comms, since nobody right in their head would pay ... They don`t, as there is nowhere stated that alliances are banned, or that groups from the same guild, or friends MUST attack each-other. Even if it was, which is utopic, you can`t enforce it. Not if I want credits not comms. It seems to me the divide is where some are upset about the charging money part this is my issue I do not care that they controlled the area except that they had all there guild there to do it. For some reason some seem to think we are against one group dominating the area. I am not I don't care if one of the big guilds fields a 4 man superman squad and takes over the area for the whole event it is a PvP area. My big issue is that they were charging money to have access to the node to me this goes against not only the ToS but the spirit of PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Not if I want credits not comms. It seems to me the divide is where some are upset about the charging money part this is my issue I do not care that they controlled the area except that they had all there guild there to do it. For some reason some seem to think we are against one group dominating the area. I am not I don't care if one of the big guilds fields a 4 man superman squad and takes over the area for the whole event it is a PvP area. My big issue is that they were charging money to have access to the node to me this goes against not only the ToS but the spirit of PvP. If you are after money yes, but you need several factors to "click": 1. Be sole defender 2. Nobody else to see or call incoming 3. Trust from the opposing side Even if all 3 are fulfilled, offering money or not, you will be seen as a liability, which will prompt 2 things: 1. Not left alone - which will ensure incoming call is issued, which will ruin your credibility, as they`ll have to fight for it and might lose 2. People flaming and leaving for other warzones In the end it auto-corrects itself... your name will be known on both sides... for opposite, bait... for your team... terribad. Nothing new, as this is "default" for recruit gear folks anyway [EDIT]Also, there is no such thing as a PvP "spirit" - There is only one rule to this: "red is dead". The extortion is a nice game, or the cherry on top, but it`s the same thing... you can opt to fight, though. Edited February 15, 2013 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldriq Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 hmmm. i guess in that context you may also have a point. although, both the people paying for access and the people charging for access would be equally at fault and subject to bans i guess. either way, i agree that it is pretty slimly thing. but i also think people waiting in line and not PVPing is pretty lame too. I agree with you it is a PvP area for crying out loud kill each other. I love PvP and spend all my time doing it with my guild and pugging. I want to PvP in war zones and out, if you enter the area you should be expecting to be fighting otherwise don't go in. I remember the first time I went in outlaws den and the thrill it gave me "Like okay be on your toes because you could have stealther at any time." So ya I want to see people PvPing in the PvP area and teams going at it and I would love to see some dominate the area broadcasting in General to come and get stomped we are the baddest deathdealing mofos in this valley. Hells ya I want that! Not some dbags controlling the damn thng with a bunch of guildies acting like a toll booth. That's what gets me. Like I said only the credits part offends me not the PvP part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saitada Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Personally, I hope the parties extorting credits get a 3 day ban. If they do it again, make it permanent. Don't like my answer? Too bad. That is what I think should happen to them. There is a point where behavior crosses the line from playing a game, to acting in a manner that is in all decent human beings minds, criminal behavior. Granted this is a game and not the real world. But lets say they were in the real world and got a group of people to go to the grocery store and embargo it in a town that had no other grocery store within driving distance. They then started extorting money from the groceries customers. Would you think that was correct and proper behavior? No? Then apply that same thinking to the game. Their behavior is reprehensible, and frankly, shows a severe lack of any human decency or morality. I hope the Dev's deal harshly with them. Not a slight spank on the wrist "oh you naughty boy", but bring out some Ban Hammers and apply them liberally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaption Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Why? Asking for money makes your weapon deal less damage? Or puts a debuff on your expertise? If it is not acceptable, make a posse and kill `em about 10000 times, then ask THEM for money... if you can, that is.. or don`t go there. The problem isn't that they are camping the objective and killing people. The problem is that they are asking for credits to stop doing so. The analogy is if I queue up with a premade for a WZ and then offer to throw the game for credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 i guess thats a new way to pay for raiding costs, one could move to another instance. or you could gather your guild or others, roll them and charge them to get thier space back, sometimes you gota fight fire with fire.. If it is against the TOS then yes report them for what it is worth, other wise there are work arounds.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 The problem isn't that they are camping the objective and killing people. The problem is that they are asking for credits to stop doing so. The analogy is if I queue up with a premade for a WZ and then offer to throw the game for credits. So, you just roll over and die, right? Get your friends and your guild, then roflstomp them, then extort them back, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkitip Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Trust me when I tell you that you will not receive any help from BW in this "issue" and it is NOT against the ToS. Anyone from Prophecy of the Five can tell you as much. Quinlynn is a rather well know person on the server because he camps the Poisonous Strategy Heroic on Ilum in an effort to block Imperial players from completing it. To do so he uses what a lot of you would call an "exploit" by engaging the player and then running through all the mobs in the quest area that are friendly to him but will then attack the Imperial character. Long story short, the guy is/was probably reported on a daily basis. Nothing has happened, nothing will happen. BioWare rightfully considers this to be "in the spirit" of open world PVP gameplay and thems the breaks when you sign up to play on a PVP server. I tend to agree. Much like this "incident" you're all discussing. It's a FFA PVP area where it has been specifically stated (in the patch notes nonetheless!) that players are intended to compete over limited resources. Well guess what? These guys won. They then gave you the option to pay them, kill them, or don't complete the quest. This is actually 1 more option that most guilds give. Most only give you the option to kill them or not complete the quest. Sorry the line isn't working out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saitada Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Trust me when I tell you that you will not receive any help from BW in this "issue" and it is NOT against the ToS. Anyone from Prophecy of the Five can tell you as much. Quinlynn is a rather well know person on the server because he camps the Poisonous Strategy Heroic on Ilum in an effort to block Imperial players from completing it. To do so he uses what a lot of you would call an "exploit" by engaging the player and then running through all the mobs in the quest area that are friendly to him but will then attack the Imperial character. Long story short, the guy is/was probably reported on a daily basis. Nothing has happened, nothing will happen. BioWare rightfully considers this to be "in the spirit" of open world PVP gameplay and thems the breaks when you sign up to play on a PVP server. I tend to agree. Much like this "incident" you're all discussing. It's a FFA PVP area where it has been specifically stated (in the patch notes nonetheless!) that players are intended to compete over limited resources. Well guess what? These guys won. They then gave you the option to pay them, kill them, or don't complete the quest. This is actually 1 more option that most guilds give. Most only give you the option to kill them or not complete the quest. Sorry the line isn't working out for you. Only one game I know of allows Extortion to occur as a regular part of it's game play, that is EVE Online. If EA/BW allows this type of behavior to enter their game as acceptable.... it will quickly lose subs even worse than it already is and become a griefer niche game like EVE. I doubt that is what EA/BW wants and I am fair sure that is NOT what Lucas Arts/Disney wants. Edited February 15, 2013 by Saitada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaption Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 So, you just roll over and die, right? Get your friends and your guild, then roflstomp them, then extort them back, lol. The debate is whether extortion constitutes griefing/ToS breach. Just because I am capable of reciprocating the action does not make it excusable or acceptable. Would you tell people who die to warzone hackers to get the exploits/mods themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggggy Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Lol, it's extortion and good luck to them for fighting for the right to get the 'exclusive' cash/rewards from it as it's partly a PvP event. I've given up with it on Ilum after day 2 Numbers seem to matter so i suggest you pay or you join a bigger bad**** guild if you are desperate for these rewards which appear to only be gainable from this sort of gameplay, it's not my bag but this is the way of the Swtor worlds! Made by BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaption Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Trust me when I tell you that you will not receive any help from BW in this "issue" and it is NOT against the ToS. Anyone from Prophecy of the Five can tell you as much. Quinlynn is a rather well know person on the server because he camps the Poisonous Strategy Heroic on Ilum in an effort to block Imperial players from completing it. To do so he uses what a lot of you would call an "exploit" by engaging the player and then running through all the mobs in the quest area that are friendly to him but will then attack the Imperial character. Long story short, the guy is/was probably reported on a daily basis. Nothing has happened, nothing will happen. BioWare rightfully considers this to be "in the spirit" of open world PVP gameplay and thems the breaks when you sign up to play on a PVP server. I tend to agree. Much like this "incident" you're all discussing. It's a FFA PVP area where it has been specifically stated (in the patch notes nonetheless!) that players are intended to compete over limited resources. Well guess what? These guys won. They then gave you the option to pay them, kill them, or don't complete the quest. This is actually 1 more option that most guilds give. Most only give you the option to kill them or not complete the quest. Sorry the line isn't working out for you. Was he also extorting the imp players? There's a big difference if he wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Only one game I know of allows Extortion to occur as a regular part of it's game play, that is EVE Online. If EA/BW allows this type of behavior to enter their game as acceptable.... it will quickly lose subs even worse than it already is and become a griefer niche game like EVE. I doubt that is what EA/BW wants and I am fair sure that is NOT what Lucas Arts/Disney wants. It won`t lose anything... it`s just making a mountain out of a molehill by a handful of annoyed players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldriq Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Trust me when I tell you that you will not receive any help from BW in this "issue" and it is NOT against the ToS. Anyone from Prophecy of the Five can tell you as much. Quinlynn is a rather well know person on the server because he camps the Poisonous Strategy Heroic on Ilum in an effort to block Imperial players from completing it. To do so he uses what a lot of you would call an "exploit" by engaging the player and then running through all the mobs in the quest area that are friendly to him but will then attack the Imperial character. Long story short, the guy is/was probably reported on a daily basis. Nothing has happened, nothing will happen. BioWare rightfully considers this to be "in the spirit" of open world PVP gameplay and thems the breaks when you sign up to play on a PVP server. I tend to agree. Much like this "incident" you're all discussing. It's a FFA PVP area where it has been specifically stated (in the patch notes nonetheless!) that players are intended to compete over limited resources. Well guess what? These guys won. They then gave you the option to pay them, kill them, or don't complete the quest. This is actually 1 more option that most guilds give. Most only give you the option to kill them or not complete the quest. Sorry the line isn't working out for you. You sir have an interesting post however in your example no extortion was mentioned. Competing over limited resources is not extortion as for the rest of your post it was just insulting. I have not been in a line nor have I advocated for one so really your post pretty much shows you have not read the thread. And are you sure this is on a PvP server although even if it was I am pretty sure that extortion is not what BW had in mind for this event/game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saitada Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 It won`t lose anything... it`s just making a mountain out of a molehill by a handful of annoyed players... Personally, I think players extorting players crosses a line of moral decency and should result in bans for the individuals doing it. If I were a Dev, you can bet i'd be swinging the Ban Hammer heavy and hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorkTrooper Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) 3. Do something else. Indeed. When so-called PvP guilds are camping the zone and preventing people from completing quests, and I am on instance shuttle lock-out and my PvE quests are done, I sign off the game and find something more fun to do. I'm pretty sure that's not the general direction EA wants this to go. BTW, I'm never going to bribe a wanna-be PvP guild on a PvE server. For anything. Ever. Edited February 15, 2013 by DorkTrooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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