Is this working as intended? Guilds taking over the event PvP zone, demanding pay.

[AureusVidere]

Well, for one you can always bounce around instances to get around the issue.

 

As the behavior itself, this does cross the line and I'm fairly certain it's against the TOS.

 

Now, they could have done something *almost* like this and been in the clear (at least technically): Dominate the zone, keep anyone from getting through for the quest. Then let it get around that "if you contact them with an offer to pay them to help you (i.e. not mess with you)" that they'll generally accept, then it's just coordinated PvP behavior and a willingness to cooperate. The line between extortion and business as usual is a thin one, but important when enforcing community standards.

[Eldriq]

It is extortion and it is against the ToS. And I am very sure if you report them they will face possible banning. What server? You can give that much info without violation the ToS of the forums I think. As for the rest who are happy about it well let me just say I am so glad they do have a decent ToS yep that me hiding behind the rules.

[Solar_Breeze]

There is nothing to say you have to do the PVP quests.

 

Quests are optional and all the PVP quests give you is a very small reputation boost. If you don't like it, don't do it.

 

you have many options.

 

1. Different instance

2. Different time of day (go when its quiet)

3. Do something else.

4. Form up some groups and take the area yourself.

5. Join their guild / another guild and get some backup.

[Vinzer]

War really IS great for business.

[AureusVidere]

There is nothing to say you have to do the PVP quests.

 

Quests are optional and all the PVP quests give you is a very small reputation boost. If you don't like it, don't do it.

 

you have many options.

 

1. Different instance

2. Different time of day (go when its quiet)

3. Do something else.

4. Form up some groups and take the area yourself.

5. Join their guild / another guild and get some backup.

 

None of this matters to the topic at hand. This is all wel and good if you're talking about people simply dominating a zone and killing everyone, but this specific practice crosses the line and violates the TOS. If they were just killing and not demanding pay (thus mitigating their own inclination to continue this practice indefinitely) then this would be just another pointless QQ thread, but it's not.

[Radzkie]

As people have said, it's BWs fault. The free for all is retarded in my opinion. It doesn't make any sense for the event. It should be faction vs faction. We really don't have enough of that...and SWs is all about good vs evil so I'm not sure how BW has gotten so far off the mark.

 

Anyway, if you have a guild, rally them and your guilds allies then go ROTFLstomp the exploiters.

[Gereorth]

So what is exactly the problem?

 

They are fighting against other players (which is what PvP is about). They kill you on sight.

You have the chance for yourself to give them money and ask to leave you alone. They also could just stand there and keep killing everyone the whole time. Which would mean they FULLY dominate the area and don't give other players the chance.

[mrpayday]

Why would anyone pay 100k for 100 WZ comms and 270 gree rep?

[MiaRB]

None of this matters to the topic at hand. This is all wel and good if you're talking about people simply dominating a zone and killing everyone, but this specific practice crosses the line and violates the TOS. If they were just killing and not demanding pay (thus mitigating their own inclination to continue this practice indefinitely) then this would be just another pointless QQ thread, but it's not.

 

how is it really any dif than someone charging to help people to flashpoints or even charging for crafting?

 

form a group and PVP them. very simple. for anyone who doesnt want to PVP, dont take the PVP quests and just stay out of the PVP area.

[MariaD]

I think it's interesting emergent gameplay. With just a bit of work, people could fight back - there are more of, well, EVERYBODY ELSE than there are people in one guild. Or people can switch instances to avoid that. There are games that are all about such behavior, like EVE, and people find it fun. If I did not feel like dealing with that gameplay, I would leave for a bit or switch instances. But I think it adds something cool to the game.

[Eldriq]

how is it really any dif than someone charging to help people to flashpoints or even charging for crafting?

 

form a group and PVP them. very simple. for anyone who doesnt want to PVP, dont take the PVP quests and just stay out of the PVP area.

 

One is against ToS one is not. What is different about you making something and selling it or making me give you money to get in my car? As for the FP thing I really don't know except you paying someone to help you is lot different then someone stopping you from doing something unless you pay them. Hence the word extortion.

[MiaRB]

One is against ToS one is not. What is different about you making something and selling it or making me give you money to get in my car? As for the FP thing I really don't know except you paying someone to help you is lot different then someone stopping you from doing something unless you pay them. Hence the word extortion.

 

how is it against TOS? the only thing you can really say would be its griefing. but how can it be griefing if its in a PVP area?

 

as others have said, the solution is to actually PVP. if one group is controling the pylon, then form up your own group and fight them for it. that is how it is intended to work. its not the same type of situation if you had a group of lvl 50's camping some quest point preventing people from completing quests in normal areas of the game. that could be griefing. but controling a PVP objective point isnt griefing.

[jedip_enguin]

A lot of people referring to the ToS but failing to point to any specific part of it that outlaws this behaviour...

 

I'm too lazy to read it myself, but I'm going to bet it's probably because it's not there.

[Solar_Breeze]

None of this matters to the topic at hand. This is all wel and good if you're talking about people simply dominating a zone and killing everyone, but this specific practice crosses the line and violates the TOS. If they were just killing and not demanding pay (thus mitigating their own inclination to continue this practice indefinitely) then this would be just another pointless QQ thread, but it's not.

 

Just because someone asks for something you don't automatically have to give it to them.

[tpryan]

I think it's interesting emergent gameplay. With just a bit of work, people could fight back - there are more of, well, EVERYBODY ELSE than there are people in one guild. Or people can switch instances to avoid that. There are games that are all about such behavior, like EVE, and people find it fun. If I did not feel like dealing with that gameplay, I would leave for a bit or switch instances. But I think it adds something cool to the game.

 

you probably should play EVE online...

[Eldriq]

how is it against TOS? the only thing you can really say would be its griefing. but how can it be griefing if its in a PVP area?

 

as others have said, the solution is to actually PVP. if one group is controling the pylon, then form up your own group and fight them for it. that is how it is intended to work. its not the same type of situation if you had a group of lvl 50's camping some quest point preventing people from completing quests in normal areas of the game. that could be griefing. but controling a PVP objective point isnt griefing.

 

Here you go. I know other games have it where you can take land and hold it and even require a fee to get in. But that is not this game. You cannot extort credits from people to access game content. I do understand they are holding a node in a PvP area but I strongly feel this was not the intent of the quest. If it had been the area would of been faction based not 4 person groups. The first event did have one faction controlling the area some loved this fact others hated it at this point that does not matter my guess is they made the decision that they did not want it this time and thereby made the groups size only 4 people. At this point it is up for debate but I would say that those who participated if they were reported are most likely going to be contacted by BW. And as the OP stated it was not a group of 4 it was a group of over a dozen all they did was coordinate there guild.

 

Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players.

 

Harassment is also any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group. Before reporting, a genuine attempt to alleviate the situation should be made by leaving the area or the offending player, or asking them politely to stop. If a sincere attempt has been made to solve the problem and the offending player persists in the behavior, it should be reported.

 

Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed.

 

A judgment of valid harassment can result in penalties placed on the harassing party up to and including immediate account closure, based on the severity of harassment and the player's past account history.

 

Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Eldriq

[Solar_Breeze]

1. Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players.

 

2. Harassment is also any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group.

 

3. Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.

 

1. Then Player-vs-Player enabled zone means that it would be a misuse of the game mechanics not to fight whilst in there surely?

 

2. The problem is not inescapable or specifically targeted at one individual. change instance/do something else. They are doing it to all players. If it was spawn camping I would be with those complaining on this but it is a player choice to enter and to leave the area.

 

3. Nor does it mean that they are breaking the rules by doing this.

[Sarlegant]

Interesting... it's an assassin's world!

[Eldriq]

1. Then Player-vs-Player enabled zone means that it would be a misuse of the game mechanics not to fight whilst in there surely?

 

2. The problem is not inescapable or specifically targeted at one individual. change instance/do something else. They are doing it to all players. If it was spawn camping I would be with those complaining on this but it is a player choice to enter and to leave the area.

 

3. Nor does it mean that they are breaking the rules by doing this.

 

1. Your reaching this makes no sense if you stop fighting a mob in PvE then are you breaking the ToS? Lets leave this as it is completely irrelevant.

 

2. It is inescapable they want to finish a quest and they cannot because people have taken the node they can try to switch instances if they know how. But if they do not know how then they are completely stuck. Yes they are doing it to all players it also says group in this case the group would be anyone not in their guild.

 

3. Yes it does it is using a game mechanic to EXTORT credits from people. This is causing distress to the players if they were instead in 4 man groups having a free for all or were even trying to only hold it for the Empire I would not have so much of an issue with it instead they are extorting credits to allow you the privilege of finishing your content. If you block a doorway with the intent of stopping someone from accessing content so that you may extort them for credits it would be against the ToS as well. What I posted also said that they look at intent the intent of these people has nothing to do with the event in any way shape or form.

[Solar_Breeze]

1. Your reaching this makes no sense if you stop fighting a mob in PvE then are you breaking the ToS? Lets leave this as it is completely irrelevant.

 

2. It is inescapable they want to finish a quest and they cannot because people have taken the node they can try to switch instances if they know how. But if they do not know how then they are completely stuck. Yes they are doing it to all players it also says group in this case the group would be anyone not in their guild.

 

3. Yes it does it is using a game mechanic to EXTORT credits from people. This is causing distress to the players if they were instead in 4 man groups having a free for all or were even trying to only hold it for the Empire I would not have so much of an issue with it instead they are extorting credits to allow you the privilege of finishing your content. If you block a doorway with the intent of stopping someone from accessing content so that you may extort them for credits it would be against the ToS as well. What I posted also said that they look at intent the intent of these people has nothing to do with the event in any way shape or form.

 

 

Quests do not have to be completed. The quest is marked as PVP. To expect to complete it without PVP it not correct. You could claim that anyone who kills you whilst you are trying to complete something is preventing you from completing that. Ban Kephess because he didn't let you complete EC Nightmare etc..

 

Again no one is forcing you to give them money because you are not forced to do anything in game, you do it by choice.

[Banegio]

Some other points of view....

 

1) Is it ok to ask for money to help run people through flash points?

 

2) On pvp server, the opportunity possible not only during event. A guild can have presences in both factions and guard an enterance of a class story phase. The unfriendly faction can grief and stop anyone trying to enter while the friendly faction can offer service to protect. Is this ok?

Edited February 15, 2013 by Banegio

[Sarlegant]

Bottomline...

 

Behavior such as this will and have caused longterm problems for this world.

When people get ganked, it creates a roadblock to having fun. Shortterm it can be fun and challenging, longterm server populations shrink.

Some people respond that Ilum is a pvp world, those same people later lament playing on dead servers.

 

I won't make any arguements about fairness, or pvp worlds should be pvp, nor will I love on the carebears loving their pve... it's all good. Just beware, there are not enough servers left, to consolidate, to make this game playable. Play nice, or play by yourself. History will repeat.

[Solar_Breeze]

Some other points of view....

 

1) Is it ok to ask for money to help run people through flash points?

 

2) The opportunity possible not only during event. A guild can have presences in both factions and guard an enterance of a class story phase. The unfriendly faction can grief and stop anyone trying to enter while the friendly faction can offer service to protect. Is this ok?

 

Good points is it extortion for a tank to charge 100k to tank your Operation because you can't find another - so are prevented from doing the content.

 

IF they were breaking ToS they would be breaking the following not the above:

- Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of EA Services. Disruptive behavior includes but is not limited to conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within an EA Service. Disruptive behavior shall also include, but not be limited to, commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements.

 

- Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing an EA Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide an EA Service for the enjoyment of all its users.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Solar_Breeze

[Swaption]

Good points is it extortion for a tank to charge 100k to tank your Operation because you can't find another - so are prevented from doing the content.

 

IF they were breaking ToS they would be breaking the following not the above:

- Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of EA Services. Disruptive behavior includes but is not limited to conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within an EA Service. Disruptive behavior shall also include, but not be limited to, commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements.

 

- Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing an EA Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide an EA Service for the enjoyment of all its users.

 

Those are not valid counterexamples. Charging for tanking an op or running a fp involves a player charging for removing an obstacle that is a part of the game and not of the player's own creation. In this case we have players creating an obstacle and then charging others to remove it.

 

If a guild on your faction does attempt to extort you for completion, let them know that you consider it griefing and will blacklist their members from your pug runs and will kick them from group finder groups when encountered.

[MiaRB]

Here you go. I know other games have it where you can take land and hold it and even require a fee to get in. But that is not this game. You cannot extort credits from people to access game content..

 

you and the OP may have a valid point only in the fact that those people were in multiple groups and the area is intended for 4 man free for all PVP.

 

as far as the other stuff... the pylon is no dif than the objectives in a WZ. the intention is for people to fight over the pylon for control of it. as i said, you may have a point about multiple groups working together, but that is it.