Can we not buy this 'Expansion' with Cartel Coins?

[MiraniSedai]

Thinking further on the issue of this "digital Expansion" and it not being available for cartel coins I find myself more and more resigned to the idea that my days in this game are numbered.

 

For me it is choice not to give financial information to gaming companys. For others they don't have it to give. For whatever reason there are people all over the world without credit cards or paypal. They are now locked out of the expansion just as I am. Really bad move there BW/EA.

 

Years ago after the TSO/EALand debacle I told myself I would never give money to EA again. So I didn't try this game until F2P. Liked it so much that against my better judgement I went out and bought a time card and subbed. Now I am starting to think my original assessment was right. Don't support EA with my money.

 

If there is no change on the position about selling the expansion for CC then I will be dropping back to preferred and when that becomes to much trouble or I run out of content I am out.

 

I know no one cares. I suspect EA doesn't care. This is how I feel about it and I wanted it said in a place where someone from EA might just read it.

[Monoth]

Is this something we can expect with all expansions moving forward?

 

And is there a reason why this was chosen when content like section X is available through the Cartel Market? .."

 

Without seeing the expansion, I would imagine the answer is that Mekeb is like 10x the size of Section X content wise....

 

I honestly don't feel bad for Bioware with the blow-back from customers after they did insinuate that mekeb would probably be free to subscribers or at the very least be able to use their cartel coins to buy it..... In my view the only way Bioware can justify themselves is if the expansion is fairly sizable. Anything less and it will be seen as another money grab.

 

Also keep in mind that Bioware has now seen how many Subscribers are willing to shell out big bucks for their cash shop items, these are the players there going to zone in on and ignore the "" cheap "" players who try to budget themselves, so as long as a majority of people are willing to throw money at Bioware the rest of us are SOL.

 

I imagine they had a lot of players spend enough money on cartel coins to pay for 3-4 years worth of subscriptions...

Edited December 19, 2012 by Monoth

[Jumajin]

Without seeing the expansion, I would imagine the answer is that Mekeb is like 10x the size of Section X content wise....

 

I honestly don't feel bad for Bioware with the blow-back from customers after they did insinuate that mekeb would probably be free to subscribers or at the very least be able to use their cartel coins to buy it..... In my view the only way Bioware can justify themselves is if the expansion is fairly sizable. Anything less and it will be seen as another money grab.

 

Also keep in mind that Bioware has now seen how many Subscribers are willing to shell out big bucks for their cash shop items, these are the players there going to zone in on and ignore the "" cheap "" players who try to budget themselves, so as long as a majority of people are willing to throw money at Bioware the rest of us are SOL.

 

I imagine they had a lot of players spend enough money on cartel coins to pay for 3-4 years worth of subscriptions...

 

Sadly, I'm still sitting on the free coins they gave us. The Cash Shop is crap even as cosmetics go, and I don't play the lockbox/gambling bag game. Not in STO, DCUO, CO, or anywhere.

[Petnil]

I dont mind if i can only preorder for real cash and get the early acces that way. I dont mind having to pay twice as much CC than cash for this socalled expansion. But not having the option to buy it with CC, that i mind.

 

No continuation of class story and not available in the shops = not an expansion in my book. I could live with this if i could get it via cartel market, but this is hard. I´m still in two minds about continuing my sub. It´s not that i dont like the game, it´s just that when i startet swtor a year ago it seemed more stable than now. What are my sub money spend on. Atm it seems like the main fokus is on cartel market. The two listed bugfixes in last patch notes were cartel bugfixes.

 

I want to keep loving swtor, but i need to feel loved back or my love will slowly die. I dont want more of the same grinds. There´s enough FP´s and OP´s and Daily quests. We need something else. A new "grind" An achievement grind for a title e.x. or daily class quest for class commendations for some new items. Could be ship custumisations or new companion looks or make a barber shop where it costs class coms to change looks.

[darklordpotter]

I'm trying to help you see their reasoning behind the decision to charge for it. I'd love a freebie too, who wouldn't? The simple fact is that this shouldn't be free. I would not give away my greatest asset for nothing, as a business, in the hope that you would then spend $5 in the cartel market. Xbox an PS3 don't give away consoles because you buy games for them...

 

But you're angry because they broke a promise...the first company to ever go against something they said?

 

The other thing you are forgetting is that Makeb, at E3, was still based on a sub-only population. Since then, the game has gone F2P. Everything has changed.

 

Imagine trying to explain to shareholders and investors that, not only is the majority of the game free now, but we also gave away our largest ever update for nothing as well.

 

If they didn't have to go F2P, the update would have been free.

 

Actually at least Sony kind of do the PS3 is sold at a loss in the hope you buy lots of games and blue ray and they make their money that way. Don't know about Microsoft though.

 

So if it was free with a tiny sub population and they now have a bigger population and a cash shop they suddenly have to charge subscribers can't quite see the logical link there.

[Spiritinblack]

Don't forget to save your CC.... so you can use it for content.

 

Was'nt that what people were told when anyone said this was going to happen????

 

When we said things like this were a concern for us, we were called haters.

 

Did not matter if our concern was valid. Did not matter if it was posted in perfect form, with no yelling.Just trying to voice our opinion.

 

We were told shut up, that is what you get CC for. So you can spend it on the new content/expansions.

 

Odd.....

 

[DAMossimo]

Don't forget to save your CC.... so you can use it for content.

 

Was'nt that what people were told when anyone said this was going to happen????

 

When we said things like this were a concern for us, we were called haters.

 

Did not matter if our concern was valid. Did not matter if it was posted in perfect form, with no yelling.Just trying to voice our opinion.

 

We were told shut up, that is what you get CC for. So you can spend it on the new content/expansions.

 

Odd.....

 

 

Because anything said in the past means absolutely nothing today - that's the crux of the whole Makeb issue.

[lokdron]

Don't forget to save your CC.... so you can use it for content.

 

Was'nt that what people were told when anyone said this was going to happen????

 

When we said things like this were a concern for us, we were called haters.

 

Did not matter if our concern was valid. Did not matter if it was posted in perfect form, with no yelling.Just trying to voice our opinion.

 

We were told shut up, that is what you get CC for. So you can spend it on the new content/expansions.

 

Odd.....

 

 

Ah I remember those topics. *sigh*

[ThrillInstructor]

I don't think BW are aware that the decision not to offer Makeb for Cartel Points might actually cost them more money than it will make them. I can only speak from my perspective. I'm a long-term subscriber, playing the game since early access. There was nothing on the CM for me because it basically is overpriced fluff and due to real life obligations I'm little more than a casual player with limited game time. But I stayed on my sub because I know from other games that additional content usually becomes available through the online shop. That was what I intended to save my Cartel Points for. Now I'm sitting on a heap of funny money which BW claims should be worth over 20$ of stuff but I can't buy the stuff I want. You only get this for 'real' cash up front. So if I can't get such content with the ingame currency I already possess, what's there to keep me from turning my Cartel Points into an adequate f2p experience with unlocks and cancel my sub? That's right BW! Because I'm essentially lazy and don't like to penny-pinch with my gaming experience I was willing to stay subbed in order to get Makeb in the shop. Now that this option is off the table I can unsub, enjoy the game and simply resub once Makeb hits the servers. If I buy the stuff before unsubbing I get it for 10$ and by playing the game f2p for a month or two I can actually save money in the process.

Maybe I should thank BW for jolting me out of my lethargy. The simply wisdom hit me: If they can nickel and dime my gaming experience then so can I.

Edited December 19, 2012 by ThrillInstructor

[grombrinda]

Don't forget to save your CC.... so you can use it for content.

 

Was'nt that what people were told when anyone said this was going to happen????

 

When we said things like this were a concern for us, we were called haters.

 

Did not matter if our concern was valid. Did not matter if it was posted in perfect form, with no yelling.Just trying to voice our opinion.

 

We were told shut up, that is what you get CC for. So you can spend it on the new content/expansions.

 

Odd.....

 

 

Everyone told us this, the one who were concerned over what they would end up charging us for what.

 

Welp thats that.

[InnerPieces]

To answer the question posed here about purchasing Rise of the Hutt Cartel:

 

We'd like to clarify that Rise of the Hutt Cartel will be available for purchase through SWTOR.com/buy only, and there won't be an option to purchase it using Cartel Coins.

 

Then there won't be any chance of BioArts obtaining any more of my money.

 

Thank you very much for the clarification and especially the specificity! It is refreshing.

Edited December 19, 2012 by InnerPieces

[legbamel]

I must honestly say that, despite me understanding many decisions (even the one where the early access is via their own payment method), this decisions really is probably the worse one made so far. Most here will probably call me a raving fanboi as I often do defend many of your decisions and try to be reasonable about them. Playing Devil's Advocate so to speak.

 

But the decision to remove this expac from your Cartel Store is really the worst kind of decision you can make. You are basicly removing one more reason to subscribe and are, therefore, removing reasons for people to keep supporting you and not just using the F2P version of the game.

 

I am personally all okay with having to buy the early access seperately. As that is it's own product. But not being able to eventually buy it in the Cartel Store once it goes live is something I see no reason for from both a technical and business point of view. Well, besides the obvious "We want everyone to pay extra real money and not save up Cartel Coins for this."

 

Please reconsider this decision as you have announced to do with the "Spaceship Parts pricing vs ingame effort required" decision.

This, a thousand times. I love the game and I'm happy to subscribe to get full access to be able to switch freely between my many alts. But discouraging me from paying monthly by removing the best reason to subscribe (paying for content via the cartel coins rather than "real" cash) seems self-defeating. If I don't give hang about PvP or end game but most definitely want to continue my story why the heck would I keep subscribing? I'm sad to say that I may not.

[InnerPieces]

I have an idea, why dont all of us on the forums stop defending bioware and let them defend themsleves, the fact they darnt speaks volumes.

 

LOL! I've been trying to make that happen for a year now.

[Goretzu]

Sadly, I'm still sitting on the free coins they gave us. The Cash Shop is crap even as cosmetics go, and I don't play the lockbox/gambling bag game. Not in STO, DCUO, CO, or anywhere.

 

Exactly, barring a few legacy unlocks I was sitting on mine for the "expansion".

Edited December 20, 2012 by Goretzu

[FattyMcElbows]

To quote a lot of people: "This is the final straw!"

 

You said that uhmm... how many times now? Going free-to-play? The Cartel Market? The holiday items?

 

So, you're saying the same people who are threatening to unsubscribe now are the same people who were threatening to unsubscribe a week ago, a month ago, and three months ago? And that somehow all of those people have remained subscribed yet keep repeating their threat to unsubscribe? Rightrightright. The Us vs. Them mentality. Where you lump everyone who disagrees with you into one singular entity rather than as a series of individuals who collectively came to similar conclusions. Makes sense. It's a totally logical way of thinking.

[Goretzu]

So, you're saying the same people who are threatening to unsubscribe now are the same people who were threatening to unsubscribe a week ago, a month ago, and three months ago? And that somehow all of those people have remained subscribed yet keep repeating their threat to unsubscribe? Rightrightright. The Us vs. Them mentality. Where you lump everyone who disagrees with you into one singular entity rather than as a series of individuals who collectively came to similar conclusions. Makes sense. It's a totally logical way of thinking.

 

More than 2,000,000 people have tried and left SWTOR in its first 12 months.

 

That's an awful LOT of "final straws" to be fair.

[FattyMcElbows]

I cannot believe people are defending this decision and saying, "It's only $10!" Really? No, really? What's in this glorified expansion? What do we KNOW what's in it? A planet. And? We can level up some more. What else? Some new abilities. Is that it? Is that all we know? So, I'm supposed to spend $10 on something and I don't even know what I'm getting? Maybe we get new flashpoints. Maybe a new operation. Maybe some warzones and more on-rails space missions.

 

So, it's only $10? For Christmas, I get a gift card to a restaurant. This restaurant is notorious for screwing up orders, serving food with filthy plates, allowing bugs everywhere, and treating its customers poorly. (Sometimes they serve food people enjoy. Some even love the food. Some come more for the atmosphere than the quality.) When I sit down, they tell me I can only order a hamburger; I won't know what's on it or be able to decide how it's cooked; maybe I'll get fries if they feel like it; it could be as big as the plate or smaller than the bun or as big as a nickel; and I have to pay $10. Cash. And my gift card is useless. How is that not a slap in the face?

 

Well, go ahead and spend your $10 on your plate of mystery meat. I think I'll be skipping out on this restaurant. Again.

 

Now what the hell am I going to do with this gift card?

 

*EDITED* Because I thought the expansion cost $10 only if you pre-ordered as a subscriber. My point still stands that we won't know if Makeb will be worth $10 or $20.

Edited December 20, 2012 by FattyMcElbows

[erei]

If you think a planet + 5lvl is worth 10$, so the vanilla game should have cost you about 80$ by itself. And yet, I include for free several tutorial planet, 1short planet, 2capital planet and 2station hub.

If we keep the comparison, a 10$ worth add on would include 2 larger planet and 10lvl. Bare minimum.

[Shingara]

the xmas mount costs 18 the 'expansion' costs 20, so wow this is gonna be amazing...................... they cant tell us jack cos they dont have a clue themselves, they have a planet they showed off at E3 an there trying to coin it in as it looks big. looks big and thats hickmans words, not its is big but looks big, how big you say, erm you know about as big as a big planet, well thank you for that insight. its so big a job in development work that its taken a smidgin more dev work to complete then a re painted mount that they stuck lights on and a snow blower to the side of it.

 

So ye wonder why they aint telling us jack before the pre order window closes cos if it were good and they knew it would be all over the website, the devs would be in here showing off with screen shots and doing videos to get more people to buy it, but they arnt are they.

 

An if anyone says meh its only x ammount, tell em to put the money in x paypal account cos they have absolutly no value on money.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Shingara

[Goretzu]

I cannot believe people are defending this decision and saying, "It's only $10!" Really? No, really? What's in this glorified expansion? What do we KNOW what's in it? A planet. And? We can level up some more. What else? Some new abilities. Is that it? Is that all we know? So, I'm supposed to spend $10 on something and I don't even know what I'm getting? Maybe we get new flashpoints. Maybe a new operation. Maybe some warzones and more on-rails space missions.

 

So, it's only $10? For Christmas, I get a gift card to a restaurant. This restaurant is notorious for screwing up orders, serving food with filthy plates, allowing bugs everywhere, and treating its customers poorly. (Sometimes they serve food people enjoy. Some even love the food. Some come more for the atmosphere than the quality.) When I sit down, they tell me I can only order a hamburger; I won't know what's on it or be able to decide how it's cooked; maybe I'll get fries if they feel like it; it could be as big as the plate or smaller than the bun or as big as a nickel; and I have to pay $10. Cash. And my gift card is useless. How is that not a slap in the face?

 

Well, go ahead and spend your $10 on your plate of mystery meat. I think I'll be skipping out on this restaurant. Again.

 

Now what the hell am I going to do with this gift card?

 

*EDITED* Because I thought the expansion cost $10 only if you pre-ordered as a subscriber. My point still stands that we won't know if Makeb will be worth $10 or $20.

 

 

It puzzles me too, its a bad precedent and it's only that cheap IF you pre-order it.

[Myshkyn]

It simply doesn't make sense.

LotRO and DDO do this without issue.

If I am not mistaken Everquest expansions can be brought with Station Cash.

 

My only theory is that they don't want subscribers (us, the people who supported their game) to use our unspent credits and get it without paying extra.

 

Just a quick point of contention, here.

DDO IS a free to play system, but the expansions for it dont unlock everything. You may get a few 'free' quests with the expansion, but the rest you have to pay for. It would be like the F2P system in SWTOR giving you the class quests ONLY...if you wanted other quests to get more experience and more loot, you would have to buy them individually.

 

The follow up argument to this is: How many Cartel Coins do you need to purchase the expansion? 2,000? 5,000? 500,000? Set the number too high, and youll have the subscribers getting the game, while the F2P guys scream and complain and leave.

[Eaglec]

The follow up argument to this is: How many Cartel Coins do you need to purchase the expansion? 2,000? 5,000? 500,000? Set the number too high, and youll have the subscribers getting the game, while the F2P guys scream and complain and leave.

that's actually very easy to answer. The full price is £11.99 (GBP) and that is EXACTLY the same price as 2400ccartel Coins... so why not charge 2400 coins?

[Spiritinblack]

that's actually very easy to answer. The full price is £11.99 (GBP) and that is EXACTLY the same price as 2400ccartel Coins... so why not charge 2400 coins?

 

Which is roughly 4-6 months worth of being a sub.

 

To me that seems fair. They could even have it a little higher too. I can live with it like that.

 

It is not about the money for me. I can afford $10. My bigger issues was the people who defend this game like there is nothing ever wrong with it.

 

They told us save your CC for content/expansions.

 

Alot of us said that they wont let us use them for that. We were then called haters... Even though people that voiced their opinion, did so in a constructive way. ( not all believe me I know how some can be on this forum.)

 

Now I took it all with a grain of salt. I knew that they would do something like this ( eaware) And chances are As mad as I am at eaware about this, i will still probably buy this expac.

 

To me, it feels like they are just insulting me. Slapping me in the face for being a sub from the get go.

 

All this is my opinion. I have been called a hater, a child, told that I'm mad cause mommy and daddy wont pay for this, you name it I have been called it.

 

Why, because I have an opinion that differs from someone else. And other then my sig,,, have not said anyone elses opinion is wrong.

 

Sorry, if after beign a sub, and seeing way too many things happen in this game, that were just plain *** moments, if I'm a litttle jaded.

[Nitblade]

Hmmm ... wasn't Hickman asking for feedback on the changes. I suppose we'd better go give him some. I get the distinct impression his brief is "See how much gouging you can get away with; sure it'll drive this game into the ground, but we'll know the consumer's pain point for the next one."

 

And I say that as someone who actually enjoys the game, and will be sorry when people are driven off by this financial experimentation.

 

Well Hickman said he wanted feedback, he never said he wanted to actually read or acknowledge it.

He's perfectly happy letting you type your well constructed post to just send David Copperfield do his vanishing trick like when he did it to the Statue of Liberty.

 

No wonder these forums are getting angrier by the minute, no matter what you have to say, if it isn't an ode to Hickman's Coolaid of truth, it'll be gone in an hour. Heck yeah i'm angry at Him, the level of sanitation reached by this forum of discussion is sickening (not blaming the CM and Mods, i'm perfectly sure where the order comes from).

 

Contrary to someone doing Eaware's management of SWTOR, I'm actually interested in every opinion that people are willing to voice here. We can't understand one another without both side of an argument.

 

Problem is I still like the game or I would have unsubbed right after 1.6 so i'm giving them exactly 1 more chance here, Makeb better be really damn good.

[CrusherKing]

I am not comfortable buying this in the internet I would gladly buy it if it was in a real store instead of purely digital