Can we not buy this 'Expansion' with Cartel Coins?

[Shingara]

I have an idea, why dont all of us on the forums stop defending bioware and let them defend themsleves, the fact they darnt speaks volumes.

[Prettyevilish]

But BioWare said that all content would be free to subscribers.

They didn't say expansions would be free to subscribers.

But this isn't an expansion.

Yes, it's an expansion. It's, at the very least, a new planet with 5 levels.

But it's not a full 10 levels.

Neither is MoP

But MoP has a new race, a new class and pet battles.

MoP also costs $40, this costs 1/4 of that for subscribers.

But it won't come in a boxed version.

Seriously?

 

The price for subscribers is really not bad at all for what we'll be getting. The only thing that bothers me is that it's not available with Cartel Coins, although maybe by the time it goes live BioWare will change their decision and it will be.

 

You failed to address the issue that BW previously stated the Makeb addition would be the largest "Non-expansion piece of content" ever released in a game. Meaning it IS NOT an expansion and therefore should be free.

 

Good try, Mr. White Knight, but you addressed absolutely nothing people are actually arguing about.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Prettyevilish

[Shingara]

Your sub covers the weekly patches, updates an minor content adds, like fps, pvp, etc. You didn't realise this?

 

you mean like the makeb patch ye, btw we know absolutly nothing about it, it could be the size of voss or it could be the size of quesh, we are all guestimating its huge. We know next to nothing beyond the fact they said this was part of the subscription which has now changed which is bait and switch no matter how you look at it.

 

Im willing to pay for an expantion but if this is just a planet and 5 levels to justify a new planet then that aint an expantion.

 

Or are you somehow stating that for every new planet its gonna be 5 levels and called an expantion hmm.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Shingara

[BlueArab]

Except this content was explicitly publicised as 'free' content updates only a few months ago. I don't care about $10, it's nothing, but it's a slippery slope from there on.

 

I don't ever remember, Makeb being publicized as a free update. What is considered free, is that as a f2p player, you still get access to weekly updates, new fps and pvp maps, and all those minor things that occur somewhat regularly.

 

If the entire player base went f2p, and did not spend and money in the cartel market, where would this game end up?

 

I don't get complaining about (not you, as you said, it's only $10) having to pay for a product that is made with the intent of being sold.

 

Another example; go to the supermarket, you might be able to try a few grapes, but you can't exactly pick up a few kg's and walk out. People/companies give you a product? Expect to pay their costs, as well as give them a great profit margin.

[Prettyevilish]

I don't ever remember, Makeb being publicized as a free update. What is considered free, is that as a f2p player, you still get access to weekly updates, new fps and pvp maps, and all those minor things that occur somewhat regularly.

 

If the entire player base went f2p, and did not spend and money in the cartel market, where would this game end up?

 

I don't get complaining about (not you, as you said, it's only $10) having to pay for a product that is made with the intent of being sold.

 

Another example; go to the supermarket, you might be able to try a few grapes, but you can't exactly pick up a few kg's and walk out. People/companies give you a product? Expect to pay their costs, as well as give them a great profit margin.

 

Well they did say it would be free to subs, which makes the rest of your argument moot.

[BlueArab]

you mean like the makeb patch ye, btw we know absolutly nothing about it, it could be the size of voss or it could be the size of quesh, we are all guestimating its huge. We know next to nothing beyond the fact they said this was part of the subscription which has now changed which is bait and switch no matter how you look at it.

 

Im willing to pay for an expantion but if this is just a planet and 5 levels to justify a new planet then that aint an expantion.

 

Or are you somehow stating that for every new planet its gonna be 5 levels and called an expantion hmm.

 

The fact you are given five levels suggests that it is decent in size. Most planets are three to four. I'm not suggesting that this will be the biggest planet to date, but I imagine it will be one of the bigger.

 

Give them some credit; I'm sure they realise that if they charge you for an expansion that is the size of Quesh, they would ultimately be plotting their own demise.

 

Also, where did they say that Makeb would be free?

[BlueArab]

Well they did say it would be free to subs, which makes the rest of your argument moot.

 

When did they say this? Specifically, that Makeb will be free to all subscribers. If I see it, I will happily concede.

[Shingara]

The fact you are given five levels suggests that it is decent in size. Most planets are three to four. I'm not suggesting that this will be the biggest planet to date, but I imagine it will be one of the bigger.

 

Give them some credit; I'm sure they realise that if they charge you for an expansion that is the size of Quesh, they would ultimately be plotting their own demise.

 

Also, where did they say that Makeb would be free?

 

I think your delusional, look at the guys sig above this post im quoting to see your arguing for arguments sake, your stating that somehow subbed people are here to simply prop up the f2p players and keep the servers live. it was clearly stated that it would be free to subscribers, that doesnt mean its free as subscribers are already paying.

[Prettyevilish]

When did they say this? Specifically, that Makeb will be free to all subscribers. If I see it, I will happily concede.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/ea-and-bioware-go-back-on-promise-to-release-makeb-free-to-subscribers This has been posted repeatedly. The video around the 5 minute mark. He specifically starts discussing Makeb and says it is going to be the largest "non-expansion piece of content" ever released. The moderator compares it to large, free expansion for other MMOs and he confirms that it will rival them (well he says "It's a whole planet" because he can't make any less vague of a promise than that).

 

It was a non-expansion, which by your own admission we are supposed to get for free for our sub money (and Bioware stated this too when f2p was released).

 

So to get around this 'free content updates' problem, they slapped expansion on what was originally called a non-expansion, and are charging for it.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Prettyevilish

[BlueArab]

I think your delusional, look at the guys sig above this post im quoting to see your arguing for arguments sake, your stating that somehow subbed people are here to simply prop up the f2p players and keep the servers live. it was clearly stated that it would be free to subscribers, that doesnt mean its free as subscribers are already paying.

 

No, not delusional, just very simple business explanation really.

 

What I see there is that Makeb was originally a really big content update. I don't see any mention of level cap increases, new gear, and what I imagine will come as the release gets closer, new fps and ops.

 

I watched E3 back in June/July, whenever it was. And they said Makeb was a new planet with new missions. Massive? Yes. An expansion? Hardly.

 

Now, it seems that they have decided to go a bit further and make it a 'mini-expansion', as they are calling it. It has more than enough content to justify to measly $10 they are charging to subs.

[Journeyer]

I don't like this.

 

I'm not one who thinks that the expansion should be free--I get that. But as a subscriber, I ought to be allowed the choice of saving my $5 worth of tokens each month to pay for the expansion, or paying cash for it so I can use the tokens on goodies.

 

Bioware came out at free to play and spoke of how player feedback was more important now than ever, and then followed up shortly thereafter to make sure we all were aware that they had begun implementing changes. Well, the feedback seems pretty clear here:

 

1) Subscribers want to choose how to spend their money. Let us decide whether to spend frivolously or save up.

2) Folks demanding all the expansion stuff that was promised waaay back in a pre-F2P swtor are ignoring the many updates we had that clearly overturned that initial intention. Reasonable people don't mind paying.

[Prettyevilish]

No, not delusional, just very simple business explanation really.

 

What I see there is that Makeb was originally a really big content update. I don't see any mention of level cap increases, new gear, and what I imagine will come as the release gets closer, new fps and ops.

 

I watched E3 back in June/July, whenever it was. And they said Makeb was a new planet with new missions. Massive? Yes. An expansion? Hardly.

 

Now, it seems that they have decided to go a bit further and make it a 'mini-expansion', as they are calling it. It has more than enough content to justify to measly $10 they are charging to subs.

 

You seriously thought they'd release a new planet that took place before the gear grind FPs? Really? An entire planet? A section for dailies, yes, but a whole planet? Yeah, you're just arguing for agument's sake.

 

And how do you know it has enough to justify the 'measly' $10? We barely know what's in it at all. In fact, most of what we know is in it, was what was hinted to be in it when it was a 'measly' 'non-expansion piece of content'.

 

If someone wants me to stop complaining because they think it's just about the $10, then buy my expansion if it's so cheap. I will shut up (have said this repeatedly, but no one seems to think $10 is worth that despite whining about it).

 

Alternatively, BW can solve the problem by allowing me to purchase this with saved up ingame cartel coins (to me, that is the same as getting it for free, because those coins are a 'gift' for my sub, not a part of my sub, and this is exactly what they were supposed to cover).

Edited December 19, 2012 by Prettyevilish

[Shingara]

No, not delusional, just very simple business explanation really.

 

What I see there is that Makeb was originally a really big content update. I don't see any mention of level cap increases, new gear, and what I imagine will come as the release gets closer, new fps and ops.

 

I watched E3 back in June/July, whenever it was. And they said Makeb was a new planet with new missions. Massive? Yes. An expansion? Hardly.

 

Now, it seems that they have decided to go a bit further and make it a 'mini-expansion', as they are calling it. It has more than enough content to justify to measly $10 they are charging to subs.

 

The only reason this is an expansion is because they have broken there word, we can now no longer believe them with anything concerning subscription, James Ohlen specifically stated this was a non expantion patch, the biggest any mmo had ever done, an entire planet and that subscribers would get this as part of there subscription.

 

Subscription doesnt only mean that you get regular content patches and updates, warzones and flashpoints as f2p players also get that for nothing.

 

try and spin it any way you want to justify subscribers having to purchase this not only outside of subscription but also without the option of cartel coins which is the main reason subscribers were given cartels in the 1st place. There is no way to justify it.

[BlueArab]

I'm trying to help you see their reasoning behind the decision to charge for it. I'd love a freebie too, who wouldn't? The simple fact is that this shouldn't be free. I would not give away my greatest asset for nothing, as a business, in the hope that you would then spend $5 in the cartel market. Xbox an PS3 don't give away consoles because you buy games for them...

 

But you're angry because they broke a promise...the first company to ever go against something they said?

 

The other thing you are forgetting is that Makeb, at E3, was still based on a sub-only population. Since then, the game has gone F2P. Everything has changed.

 

Imagine trying to explain to shareholders and investors that, not only is the majority of the game free now, but we also gave away our largest ever update for nothing as well.

 

If they didn't have to go F2P, the update would have been free.

[Jammari]

They need to allow subs to pay for it with cartel coins.

[Shingara]

I'm trying to help you see their reasoning behind the decision to charge for it. I'd love a freebie too, who wouldn't? The simple fact is that this shouldn't be free. I would not give away my greatest asset for nothing, as a business, in the hope that you would then spend $5 in the cartel market. Xbox an PS3 don't give away consoles because you buy games for them...

 

But you're angry because they broke a promise...the first company to ever go against something they said?

 

The other thing you are forgetting is that Makeb, at E3, was still based on a sub-only population. Since then, the game has gone F2P. Everything has changed.

 

Imagine trying to explain to shareholders and investors that, not only is the majority of the game free now, but we also gave away our largest ever update for nothing as well.

 

If they didn't have to go F2P, the update would have been free.

 

Again how is this free, i pay a subscription, how is this anything but a blatant money grab when it was already stated that it would cost nothing ontop of subscription, which they specifically said to get subscribers back, until you can answer that then your just trying to justify it in your own mind and you shall never convince us that they were right to go back on there word.

 

And again this is nothing todo with F2P players, they should have to pay for it just like they had to pay for section X, this is about subscribers and what they said concerning it.

[ruminate]

<deleted> Edited December 19, 2012 by ruminate

[Prettyevilish]

I'm trying to help you see their reasoning behind the decision to charge for it. I'd love a freebie too, who wouldn't? The simple fact is that this shouldn't be free. I would not give away my greatest asset for nothing, as a business, in the hope that you would then spend $5 in the cartel market. Xbox an PS3 don't give away consoles because you buy games for them...

 

But you're angry because they broke a promise...the first company to ever go against something they said?

 

The other thing you are forgetting is that Makeb, at E3, was still based on a sub-only population. Since then, the game has gone F2P. Everything has changed.

 

Imagine trying to explain to shareholders and investors that, not only is the majority of the game free now, but we also gave away our largest ever update for nothing as well.

 

If they didn't have to go F2P, the update would have been free.

 

Right, you're trying to explain that a company is greedy. We GET that. Just because companies DO break promises doesn't mean we should just roll over and take it without lube. What about that is so hard for you to grasp? None of us are stupid, we know WHY EA/BW is doing it, but that doesn't mean we have to stf u and accept it without saying anything.

 

Imagine explaining to the shareholders why you're bleeding subs - again - because you didn't want to release a large content patch for free like you initially promised.

 

Also, that does absolutely nothing to address the fact that we were told we could save up our cartel coins to get future content.... and yet they are removing that option, in order to milk more money out of people instead of taking their fake money - because apparently more people than they realized DID hold onto those coins in anticipation.

[Prettyevilish]

deleted because quoted post was deleted. Edited December 19, 2012 by Prettyevilish

[BlueArab]

Again how is this free, i pay a subscription, how is this anything but a blatant money grab when it was already stated that it would cost nothing ontop of subscription, which they specifically said to get subscribers back, until you can answer that then your just trying to justify it in your own mind and you shall never convince us that they were right to go back on there word.

 

And again this is nothing todo with F2P players, they should have to pay for it just like they had to pay for section X, this is about subscribers and what they said concerning it.

 

When they first announced Makeb, there were only subscribers. They could give it for free, because sub numbers were still decent, and a massive free expansion could have bolstered numbers a little, with some smart marketing.

 

But this has everything to do with F2P, because so many subs have now gone F2P as well. They absolutely have to charge for this content in order for EA to continue investing in this game. Unless you would prefer this to be the last expansion the game sees?

 

Also, I agree that you should be able to pay for it with cartel coins.

[ElitehunterDS]

Your sub covers the weekly patches, updates an minor content adds, like fps, pvp, etc. You didn't realise this?

you mean i didnt pay anything in between April and August? i remember a lack of everything for months...

Edited December 19, 2012 by ElitehunterDS

[Shingara]

When they first announced Makeb, there were only subscribers. They could give it for free, because sub numbers were still decent, and a massive free expansion could have bolstered numbers a little, with some smart marketing.

 

But this has everything to do with F2P, because so many subs have now gone F2P as well. They absolutely have to charge for this content in order for EA to continue investing in this game. Unless you would prefer this to be the last expansion the game sees?

 

Also, I agree that you should be able to pay for it with cartel coins.

 

when they 1st announced makeb we knew f2p was comming, rest of what you say is voided by that, we shouldnt even have to throw cartel coins at it but the fact we cant totally destroys the reason we are given them.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Shingara

[BlueArab]

Right, you're trying to explain that a company is greedy. We GET that. Just because companies DO break promises doesn't mean we should just roll over and take it without lube. What about that is so hard for you to grasp? None of us are stupid, we know WHY EA/BW is doing it, but that doesn't mean we have to stf u and accept it without saying anything.

 

Imagine explaining to the shareholders why you're bleeding subs - again - because you didn't want to release a large content patch for free like you initially promised.

 

Also, that does absolutely nothing to address the fact that we were told we could save up our cartel coins to get future content.... and yet they are removing that option, in order to milk more money out of people instead of taking their fake money - because apparently more people than they realized DID hold onto those coins in anticipation.

 

Do you agree that everything to do with this game has changed since it went F2P?

[Shingara]

Do you agree that everything to do with this game has changed since it went F2P?

 

*** does f2p have todo with this exactly.

[BlueArab]

when they 1st announced makeb we knew f2p was comming, rest of what you say is voided by that, we shouldnt even have to throw cartel coins at it but the fact we cant totally destroys the reason we are given them.

 

F2P was announced in August. E3 was in June...