Soluss Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 A new race is a feature, not content. Many would say it's in fact a "fluff" feature since being Cathar offers no play advantage in game.... simply RP. AND....they give you cartel coins each month as a subscriber. Enouch such that if you only spend them on things that subscribers need to unlock (new race, a new planet, a paid expansion pack, etc) you will never have to spend real money on coins. Oh stop already. You eat up anything EA throws at you. If they put an operation on their next you would just say its an expansion. Clueless you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Seeing as I'm getting something like 700 coins per month, most things in the store are "free". Or at least, already paid for as part of my subscription. Especially since at least currently there isn't really anything in the store worth buying for subscribers. Gambling (no thanks) or ugly outfits/crystals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warshades Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Let me ask you this regarding the Fluff vs Content debate.... If Bioware removed the character creation tools so everyone looked the same (Same body build, same hair style, same sex, etc..) and everyone had the same looking set of gear, would you still argue that Fluff is not content? I would consider it fluff yes.....since most people go with the same skin/body size anyways. But to your point just because its fluff doesnt mean people wont quit over it. Games need fluff to have immersion and individuality in the game. Since it doesnt change your abilities, only your appearance, this is an immersion issue and not a content or playability issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumuji Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) It's funny how Bioware refers to Everything in the Cartel Shop as content yet some players refuse to see it that way, i guess to make themselves feel better that here being charged for something they should already get. Most people have enough common sense to realize they're not entitled to everything on the cartel market because they pay $15 for a sub. That's why there's nothing on the cartel market that's pay to win. It's 10000000000% fluff excluding some of the options f2p might need to aquire to get the full game subbers do. This 1000000000% fluff will still be true if and when they add a new race to it. Everything else is just speculation at this point. Besides the point nobody ever said the only target audience for the item shop were f2p players. BW will surely try to entice subbers to purchase coins as well. I'd imagine that most of the money they've recieved so far were from subbers buying bags. Edited November 20, 2012 by sumuji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumZed Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I rather Bioware took away the coin allowance and just made all the content available in game to paying subscribers... Why is this such a bad idea? because they need the money to make more stuff... and we ALL know HOW MUCH money they can make from those random packs... 15$/mo vs 200$/day?! I think it's easy to decide which way to go... even if they completely removed the subscriber option and added all our "features" to free or at least preferred status, they'd still make money from the packs... in fact, I think that's the way they should go personally... COMPLETELY REMOVE the Subscriber option... only FREE and Preferred... ALL returning players get preferred... and a MINIMUM PURCHASE that's higher than 5$ to unlock the option... then add TONS of Cartel items... released periodically... that'll make them more money in the long run, and less entitled "subscribers" will whine because they don't have to pay monthly anymore... the only thing is, those who already paid for the 6 months subs, should get those refunded as bonus cartel coins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWGEvictee Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) I agree with the OP. I don't like the idea if the cartel shop in the first place but I'm putting up with it for now as it's mainly just recoloured versions of items I can attain thru playing the game. However as a paying subscriber I am supposed to have access to all races in game. It's a serious foul in my opinion. Edited November 20, 2012 by SWGEvictee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyer Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Give me 15 bucks. Ill give you 5 bucks back. Ill then put 3 items in front of you that cost 5 bucks each. 1 of those items should have been included with your 15 bucks and the other 2 items are something extra. Now tell me you got something for free. I got something for free. Happy? I got unlimited Warzones and Unlimited Operations on a giant server that....cost money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcrirTwyLar Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I agree that subscribers should gain access for all content. However... Bioware IS giving you access to all of the stuff in the cartel market if you are a subscriber due to the fact that you get cartel coins each month as part of your subscription. Bioware is however making you build up your cartel coins over time, thus making you wait. They are counting on your impatience to drive you to buy cartel coins as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I rather Bioware took away the coin allowance and just made all the content available in game to paying subscribers... Why is this such a bad idea? The point is, giving players coins each month means they have full access (unless they are foolish and blow them all on packs) new features like a new race without paying any incremental real life money. So the net effect is the same, so I really cannot see why it bothers you. It is also more flexible since if a player does not want a Cathar race unlock (and there are a lot of people that could care less about the race) they can spend their coin allowance on other things. It's a more mature approach to the business model as it gives players more control over what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warshades Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Give me 15 bucks. Ill give you 5 bucks back. Ill then put 3 items in front of you that cost 5 bucks each. 1 of those items should have been included with your 15 bucks and the other 2 items are something extra. Now tell me you got something for free. Better yet, I'm developing a game for you, I have enough money to work on one project, I have 3 ideas, I'll let you decide which development you want me to work on. Atleast you have the option of which fluff your money went too. Since as I said before, most of this stuff wouldnt be in the game had they not gone free to play. And since you can buy it all on the GTN it matters not anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 because they need the money to make more stuff... and we ALL know HOW MUCH money they can make from those random packs... 15$/mo vs 200$/day?! I think it's easy to decide which way to go... even if they completely removed the subscriber option and added all our "features" to free or at least preferred status, they'd still make money from the packs... in fact, I think that's the way they should go personally... COMPLETELY REMOVE the Subscriber option... only FREE and Preferred... ALL returning players get preferred... and a MINIMUM PURCHASE that's higher than 5$ to unlock the option... then add TONS of Cartel items... released periodically... that'll make them more money in the long run, and less entitled "subscribers" will whine because they don't have to pay monthly anymore... the only thing is, those who already paid for the 6 months subs, should get those refunded as bonus cartel coins... You are the reason that people get more and more ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I got something for free. Happy? I got unlimited Warzones and Unlimited Operations on a giant server that....cost money Lol, you are a fool if you honestly believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 You have bashed others for other things to, I only used that as an example of a recent one. Go look at your post history man.... and its only a HUGE difference because YOU dont like it. If someone else doesnt like something, and it isnt a big deal to you, you bash them endlessly.... Thats called being a hypocrit. I am on your side on this.. Im just bringing something to your attention. If you go far back enough in my history post you'll see I've always been against F2P, look at my tag line, i've had it since rumors of SWTOR going F2P.... The difference is like someone who is given a free car and then complains that the car has no radio and that they have to spend money to put one in. That's F2P players For Subscribers it's like paying top dollar for a premium car and then when you get it the radio is missing... Even tho it was advertise as having a radio. Sure you can still drive the car without the radio but it sucks and you feel like you just got riped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyer Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I agree that subscribers should gain access for all content. However... Bioware IS giving you access to all of the stuff in the cartel market if you are a subscriber due to the fact that you get cartel coins each month as part of your subscription. Bioware is however making you build up your cartel coins over time, thus making you wait. They are counting on your impatience to drive you to buy cartel coins as well. Exactly correct, this guy. 600 Tokens/months is quite a few. Anyone proposing we spend time grinding in-game for the stuff...this is just grinding time. The idea that all of the content in the Cartel shop is the equivalent of 1 month of your subscription is lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Better yet, I'm developing a game for you, I have enough money to work on one project, I have 3 ideas, I'll let you decide which development you want me to work on. Atleast you have the option of which fluff your money went too. Since as I said before, most of this stuff wouldnt be in the game had they not gone free to play. And since you can buy it all on the GTN it matters not anyways Its not free if you get charged for it. That has been a problem in the game, no fluff. Its not like they hired extra developers to create this stuff.... they actually fired a huge chunk of their team. So its not like it took extra money to make the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andge Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) in fact, I think that's the way they should go personally... COMPLETELY REMOVE the Subscriber option... only FREE and Preferred... ALL returning players get preferred... and a MINIMUM PURCHASE that's higher than 5$ to unlock the option... then add TONS of Cartel items... released periodically... that'll make them more money in the long run, and less entitled "subscribers" will whine because they don't have to pay monthly anymore... the only thing is, those who already paid for the 6 months subs, should get those refunded as bonus cartel coins... This is how they do it already with the way the cartel shop works. The only difference is they still use the word "subscription" about what should really be called "preferred account". Edited November 20, 2012 by Andge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfius Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Let see how it going to be, I still don't get why so many people want to play - prophet of doom... If they go to milking subscribers, solution is easy - we will unsub and find something other to play. But till now most of cartel things finish on GTN... even bought some armor shells with credits, they were so cheap. I suppose race unlocks would be there also, and not each of us want to roleplay a cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyer Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Lol, you are a fool if you honestly believe that. What? Ok, I'm a fool. You're out of reality, though. Unless you're going to show me a free gaming server you're running somewhere. Seriously, the entitlement is amazing. It costs money to run a game. No way around it. And you guys whine that BW has the audacity to charge money for running the game...and for extras. They are handing out extras. A month of Dev time is worth 600 tokens. Which you get, in addition to server play time, for your $13. To expect that several dozen new outfits, new weapons, new UI elements all took exactly 1 month worth of Dev time and money...there's the fool who believes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warshades Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Its not free if you get charged for it. That has been a problem in the game, no fluff. Its not like they hired extra developers to create this stuff.... they actually fired a huge chunk of their team. So its not like it took extra money to make the content. I'm afraid it did. Wonder why things like cathar or makeb arnt released yet? Because of the F2P and the cartel shop. Wonder why people are laid off? because the subs. model wasnt paying them enough. Money makes the world go round. And this was brought to us to make THEM money so THEY can continue to bring US content/fluff. So yes, it does take extra money to make the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Let me ask you this regarding the Fluff vs Content debate.... If Bioware removed the character creation tools so everyone looked the same (Same body build, same hair style, same sex, etc..) and everyone had the same looking set of gear, would you still argue that Fluff is not content? Your situation is significantly different than the actual situation. You are dropping people from a plethora of choices to no choices, which is an issue. No one would keep a subscription if they took away what you already have. As to the actual topic, the OP has a point. While I wouldn't consider species new content by the strictest terms, BW has specifically said that character creation options are included as part of the subscription and it needs to be completely included for at least 6 months until those people who just subbed have the option to not continue based on the choice. If this hadn't been promised before, then I wouldn't have a problem with selling the species as it does not affect your ability to play other aspects of the game. Not being a cathar doesn't restrict class choice, play mode options, or restrict the use of other content. Let's also keep in mind that this has not happened yet and I'd be more likely to believe that they will treat it just like all of the other species: available for certain classes and can be unlocked for all through legacy purchase, leveling to 50, or purchase on the cartel market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumZed Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 This is how they do it already with the way the cartel shop works. The only difference is they still use the word "subscription" about what should really be called "preferred account". again, the problem isn't what it's called... the problem is they're still offering a class that has a massive amount of "entitlement issues" which want more... the more you give the more they want... THAT is the problem I'm saying to take it out of the equation, it'll solve a lot of the headache give them all without taking anything... if they wanted any more, then you pay for it the only problem is, those who are still "entitled" for having subbed for so long... what to do? easy... give them the Cartel Coins! you paid for them! now go and get what you paid for! + you get unlimited ACCESS to everything you had before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I was willing to look the other way with all the fluff items on the cartel shop, even tho I feel all of it should be obtainable within the game for subscribers. But this is really disappointing.. To me this is where the line between subscriber and F2P becomes fuzzy, We were ALWAYS told that subscribers would not have to pay for any content (with the exception of expansion packs) but now it seems if you want to play as a Cathar you will need to spend additional money as a subscriber to do so... Also you know subscribers are not going to want to wait months to save up Cartel Coins to play a new race, so the statement they can wait and save up is a joke. If you want to lose your entire subscriber base Bioware keep doing stuff like this... EDIT: BTW, this is just the beginning of the end, you know all future Warzones, Operations and Flashpoints will also be sold to subscribers on the Cartel Shop... So being a subscriber is starting to look like a rip-off.... But...you don't have to pay for it as a subscriber...you just use the free cartel coins that you are awarded each month??? Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 What? Ok, I'm a fool. You're out of reality, though. Unless you're going to show me a free gaming server you're running somewhere. Seriously, the entitlement is amazing. It costs money to run a game. No way around it. And you guys whine that BW has the audacity to charge money for running the game...and for extras. They are handing out extras. A month of Dev time is worth 600 tokens. Which you get, in addition to server play time, for your $13. To expect that several dozen new outfits, new weapons, new UI elements all took exactly 1 month worth of Dev time and money...there's the fool who believes that. Lets see.... call of duty has free servers, so does battlefield, so diablo, command and conquer, star craft, oh wait... did you mean MMO? Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2. I could go on all day with games you can play online with no subscription. It doesnt cost jack **** to run game servers anymore. Not compared to the 15 dollar return they get from players anymore. You want to talk extras? How much extra did this little bit of content cost them to make that wasnt covered by subscriptions? Answer is nothing because they didnt hire more people... in fact they released a huge portion of their staff. So if you want to get technical... it cost them less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andge Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Most of the disagreements in this thread comes from disagreements in what is expected from a subscription. The traditionel form of subscription is that subscription gives access to the entire game, i.e. content, features etc. The "new" form is that subscription only gives access to what I guess could be called the base game. Some of us still expect the old form of subscription. Others like the new. Those of us who expect the old form of subscription just have to accept that form does not exist in SWTOR. And either live with it or move on. Edited November 20, 2012 by Andge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 While I agree that a new playable race isn't exactly "content", I think it's a bad idea to make it only available through the Cartel Shop. The last thing this game needs to do is nickel and dime it's subscriber base, especially considering the amount of ******** we've suffered through thus far. Personally, I could care less about the new race. I won't be rolling a new toon just to play as a kitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts