HK demaning a Hardmode FP? You've got to be kidding me...

[Mazikeen]

Funny, I did it on my main, PvP geared even, and was disappointed in how easy Revan was. In fact, the hardest boss was the first bot boss because he has that molten ability at 10% that none of us knew about because none of us knew what we were doing... Edited November 19, 2012 by Mazikeen

[FlyinSpaghetti]

Seriously, what were they thinking? HK quest demands a HM?

 

Now I tried this with 3 groups, and ALL of them failed with me. I mean, I am a day one subscriber, I put reasonable effort into my level 50ies, but not that grindy super gear. Normal good endgame gear. And we just got owned by these bosses. And no, we KNEW what we were doing. Yea, yadda yadda, you all did it, HOW GREAT FOR YOU. But why the heck does Bioware force a HM on us, who don't like this sort of HM-grind needed to survive?

 

So now you add new content, but limit it to grinders? Well, player Bioware, well played.

 

Like not!

 

 

 

Ya know, THAT is what SUX about SWTOR, and why I so passionately hate WOW: They introduced this idea, you need to grind some gear by doing quests over and over in some repetitive grind mill, to "unlock" the same dungeon in a more difficult mode.

 

Foundry HM is entry level endgame content and one of the easiest flashpoints, it can be done in level 49 greens and blues from the end of your class quests. All PvP gear is more than enough to do this flashpoint and even in most cases better than the tionese gear you can get from the flashpoint itself which begs the question... are you the problem instead of the gear you're blaming?

 

For my final thoughts see spoiler below:

 

 

Lastly, if you can't even do HM foundry how the hell do you think you can even beat the lord of agony on the last quest to obtain HK?

 

Edited November 19, 2012 by FlyinSpaghetti

[NwahsNirom]

I have carried dozens of fresh 50s through dozens of hardmodes. Maybe you don't deserve the new companion if you cannot even complete one hard mode. What do you do at 50 if you can't even do hard modes? Just level another character? What do you need HK-51 for then?

 

I can 100% guarantee you the only thing stopping you from completing the level 50 version of the foundry is yourself.

 

This pretty much ends the thread in my opinion. Well said.

[Soluss]

They havent spend 2 minutes to lear boss do big attack at 75%. Wow that took a lot of coordination and skill.

 

Obviously they havent. Statement stands, if it were so simple then people wouldnt be having a problem with it.

 

Its not all about that either. When you are solo, you dont need to think. Lets say you are a healer... you heal yourself and you nuke the mob. In a group situation, you have to make choices. Lets say, the tank is about to die and you are about to die. Who do you heal first? You need to be aware of how much longer you can both live and make a decision based on that. Its not necessarily correct to heal yourself first or the tank first. It depends on the situation. What if the tank or you is about to die but you also have to avoid the incomming AE. What do you do first? These are the types of choices you need to make, almost instantly, that you dont have to worry about at all while solo.

 

The more choices you have to make, the more likely it is that you or someone else in your group will make an error. An error can lead to the wipe of an entire group. So, you could play perfect but your groupmate might make an error and kill you anyways. Out in the solo world you dont have the extra errors and you dont have other people effecting you by making errors of their own.

 

In conclusion, group content is more difficult then solo content is. No matter how easy you make group content out to be, it is still tougher then solo content.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Soluss

[HarleysRule]

I healed this on my Operative no problem. I had the daily rakata ear piece, 1 implant, and 1 BH piece and the rest was recruit gear. 3 of us in the PUG had never even run Foundry before and we had no voice comms. I was actually surprised how easy a "hardmode" FP was. The new Heroic4 in section X is harder than HM Foundry. Sounds like a L2P situation. Edited November 19, 2012 by HarleysRule

[FlyinSpaghetti]

I healed this on my Operative no problem. I had the daily rakata ear piece, 1 implant, and 1 BH piece and the rest was recruit gear. 3 of us in the PUG had never even run Foundry before and we had no voice comms. I was actually surprised how easy a "hardmode" FP was. The new Heroic4 in section X is harder than HM Foundry. Sounds like a L2P situation.

 

Even getting to where you start the HK quests in section X is harder than HM foundry.. accidently run into dreadtooth on the way the other day

Edited November 19, 2012 by FlyinSpaghetti

[Stradlin]

Waaaaaah my game has challenging content!!! Waaaah in order to acquire cool rewards I must learn to cope with the said content! WAAAAAAH! I want everything to be easy!! WAAAAAH!

[astrobearz]

Waaaaaah my game has challenging content!!! Waaaah in order to acquire cool rewards I must learn to cope with the said content! WAAAAAAH! I want everything to be easy!! WAAAAAH!

how very mature of you to post that:rolleyes:

[Gronkaarr]

Seriously, what were they thinking? HK quest demands a HM?

 

Now I tried this with 3 groups, and ALL of them failed with me. I mean, I am a day one subscriber, I put reasonable effort into my level 50ies, but not that grindy super gear. Normal good endgame gear. And we just got owned by these bosses. And no, we KNEW what we were doing. Yea, yadda yadda, you all did it, HOW GREAT FOR YOU. But why the heck does Bioware force a HM on us, who don't like this sort of HM-grind needed to survive?

 

So now you add new content, but limit it to grinders? Well, player Bioware, well played.

 

Like not!

 

 

 

Ya know, THAT is what SUX about SWTOR, and why I so passionately hate WOW: They introduced this idea, you need to grind some gear by doing quests over and over in some repetitive grind mill, to "unlock" the same dungeon in a more difficult mode. Why would any sane person enjoy doing the same quests or dungeons over and over? Thats not fun or entertainment, that's a gosh darn punishment! This idea of prolonging a game content by grind demands to see some endgame stuff is what I vividly, passionately hate.

 

And especially in a STORY driven Star Wars MMO! Since when does the STORY of a Sith or a Jedi or what contain grinding the same bosses over and over? Thats not STORY, thats bollocks!

 

I'm pretty sure this guys is trolling, but if not, learn to play. HM FPs are a cakewalk for anyone who's been playing this game for a few months. I can't really take anyone seriously who claims to be a day-one sub and thinks HM FPs are challenging

[Galbatorrix]

Sorry, but the HMs are complete cake. You had to have gotten three REALLY shoddy groups of people to fail over and over again.

[SWGEvictee]

how very mature of you to post that:rolleyes:

 

Actually what he posted was far more mature than the original post it was a response to.

 

The amount of foot stomping and tantrum throwing I have seen over this questline is unbelievable! Every single aspect of it has been complained and cried about by one faction or another.

[Wazupeth]

Wow! Imagine that I did it on my merc dps just 1(one) day after I hit 50 with her! Soloed all the quests, except flashpoints ofc. My gear had mostly Voss/Corellia mods + dailies barrels(rating of 126). Did both FPs in group finder and most of all I've been in them for the first time ever(had a long break, stopped playing around june without any lvl 50), only watched a playthrough for each. No one died, went smoothly etc. Found the flashpoints rather easy, especially the hm. I really can't imagine what did(or didn't) you do to fail so badly. Have you been "standing in the fire" all the time or what? Only conclusion I can think of is that-like some ppl already stated earlier-the fault must be yours.

[MariaD]

*hand wave* You want to re-read my entire post before replying.

 

Okay, your mind trick worked. On the second reading, I found that you were questioning my sanity there...

Why would any sane person enjoy doing the same quests or dungeons over and over?

 

So, here are a few answers:

- To take nice photos for my stories

- To make different choices and see what happens - in some FPs it's a big difference.

- To run with friends and see their reactions and choices in stories.

 

But anyway, some content is hard and other content is easy. HK-51 is not nearly as grindy as, say, Thunderfury. You can run those instances in Tionese, Recruit and some greens and win. You can get one overgeared player to carry you, because two Rakata players can do that instance by themselves. I'd say what you describe is a skill check, not gear check at all.

[MariaD]

Its not all about that either. When you are solo, you dont need to think. Lets say you are a healer... you heal yourself and you nuke the mob. In a group situation, you have to make choices. Lets say, the tank is about to die and you are about to die. Who do you heal first? You need to be aware of how much longer you can both live and make a decision based on that. Its not necessarily correct to heal yourself first or the tank first. It depends on the situation. What if the tank or you is about to die but you also have to avoid the incomming AE. What do you do first? These are the types of choices you need to make, almost instantly, that you dont have to worry about at all while solo.

 

I think the above is a very good analysis. I hope it helps the OP. No, it's not about grinding gear. It's about coordination and skills, as described above. A lot of people take these skills for granted, especially younger people who may have learned these skills so early in life they don't even remember learning.

 

It's not automatic, and it's not easy, and people who don't have these skills are not stupid or weak. They just have not learned yet.

 

But it's not about gear, either.

[kasmsa]

Ridiculously easy content, as long as you have a bit of common sense and situational awareness (which isn't needed for solo play to your standards). I'm going to go as far in saying that -YOU-, OP, are the reason your groups failed. I've never ever seen or heard about a level 50 group failing any of these (unless HK bugs) So, you saying that group content is easier than solo content, and requires you to just stand there and not think, you are obviously the cause for failure. You cannot not think in HMs. Almost all bosses have 1 major tactic to stop, and several other situations to watch out for.

You can't just stand there, ever. And if you are (which you claim you are), then you have a serious case of L2P

Edited November 19, 2012 by kasmsa

[AsheraII]

Ya know, THAT is what SUX about SWTOR, and why I so passionately hate WOW: They introduced this idea, you need to grind some gear by doing quests over and over in some repetitive grind mill, to "unlock" the same dungeon in a more difficult mode.

That I fully agree with. The entire game trying to funnel players into raids and heroics is what put me off from WoW as well. I have raided and heroiced and whatnot in that game, and at times I even liked it, but that was generally only the first 3-4 times I went through it, figuring out tactics (I was in a strict no you-tube guides guild for a while), downing bosses the first few times because it was actually hard and to some degree even exciting. Sadly, halfway into the first expansion, they changed the entire philosophy of the game into "raid or be bored and useless, keep up with the latest additions, or be obsolete".

TOR was a very welcome change from that, with tons of things to do outside raiding. For raiders with spare time and non-raiders alike. The hardmode requirement for HK, even if its a relatively easy one, sadly puts that upside down again, and it's NOT an improvement.

 

Guess what players are most excited about the addition of HK? That's the old KotOR players, single players, who love story. There's plenty of threads by now saying how awesome they find the Theoretika. That's the KotOR crowd talking there. To the "MMO-veterans" who didn't play KotOR, he's just another droid companion. Half of them will probably hate him in a short while, or at least find it annoying how he dislikes their light side choices.

And ofcourse they don't understand why people complain about the HM component. Because single play doesn't mean much to them, while they don't have the nostalgic feeling of HK either. So the value of HK and the issue at hand is completely beyond them.

[TheNevet]

Doing a HM is grinding? You do realize this is an MMO right?

[AsheraII]

Doing a HM is grinding? You do realize this is an MMO right?

Grinding is repeatedly doing something you don't enjoy doing. To some that is PvP in warzones, to others it is farming materials for crafting, and to yet other people it is repeatedly doing the same instances in search for specific loot.

Eye of the bee holder or something like that.

[Soluss]

That I fully agree with. The entire game trying to funnel players into raids and heroics is what put me off from WoW as well. I have raided and heroiced and whatnot in that game, and at times I even liked it, but that was generally only the first 3-4 times I went through it, figuring out tactics (I was in a strict no you-tube guides guild for a while), downing bosses the first few times because it was actually hard and to some degree even exciting. Sadly, halfway into the first expansion, they changed the entire philosophy of the game into "raid or be bored and useless, keep up with the latest additions, or be obsolete".

TOR was a very welcome change from that, with tons of things to do outside raiding. For raiders with spare time and non-raiders alike. The hardmode requirement for HK, even if its a relatively easy one, sadly puts that upside down again, and it's NOT an improvement.

 

Guess what players are most excited about the addition of HK? That's the old KotOR players, single players, who love story. There's plenty of threads by now saying how awesome they find the Theoretika. That's the KotOR crowd talking there. To the "MMO-veterans" who didn't play KotOR, he's just another droid companion. Half of them will probably hate him in a short while, or at least find it annoying how he dislikes their light side choices.

And ofcourse they don't understand why people complain about the HM component. Because single play doesn't mean much to them, while they don't have the nostalgic feeling of HK either. So the value of HK and the issue at hand is completely beyond them.

 

You make the mistake of assuming that MMO-vets didnt play KOTOR

[Soluss]

Grinding is repeatedly doing something you don't enjoy doing. To some that is PvP in warzones, to others it is farming materials for crafting, and to yet other people it is repeatedly doing the same instances in search for specific loot.

Eye of the bee holder or something like that.

 

And yet, other people enjoy repeating dungeons and operations and warzones with their friends. Its funny how dumbed down people made grinding nowadays. People have no clue what true grinding really was. Go through a hell level in EQ1, that was grinding.

[JediMB]

The Foundry HM was my first real endgame experience, since all I've done since I hit 50 is farm Daily Commendations on Ilum, Belsavis, and Corellia. Hell, I barely did any Flashpoints at all as I leveled my character up, so I'm very inexperienced when it comes to group content.

 

Still, we made it through just fine. We wiped once against HK-47, due to a bug that made him spam a powerful snipe attack, but on our second try he was no problem, and neither was the final boss.

Edited November 19, 2012 by JediMB

[MariaD]

To the "MMO-veterans" who didn't play KotOR, he's just another droid companion.

 

I am a long-time MMO player who didn't play KotOR. I loved the HK-51 mission chain. Especially the Theoretica part - I do like stories. You don't need to know KotOR to enjoy this story, really.

[mokkh]

That I fully agree with. The entire game trying to funnel players into raids and heroics is what put me off from WoW as well. I have raided and heroiced and whatnot in that game, and at times I even liked it, but that was generally only the first 3-4 times I went through it, figuring out tactics (I was in a strict no you-tube guides guild for a while), downing bosses the first few times because it was actually hard and to some degree even exciting. Sadly, halfway into the first expansion, they changed the entire philosophy of the game into "raid or be bored and useless, keep up with the latest additions, or be obsolete".

TOR was a very welcome change from that, with tons of things to do outside raiding. For raiders with spare time and non-raiders alike. The hardmode requirement for HK, even if its a relatively easy one, sadly puts that upside down again, and it's NOT an improvement.

 

Guess what players are most excited about the addition of HK? That's the old KotOR players, single players, who love story. There's plenty of threads by now saying how awesome they find the Theoretika. That's the KotOR crowd talking there. To the "MMO-veterans" who didn't play KotOR, he's just another droid companion. Half of them will probably hate him in a short while, or at least find it annoying how he dislikes their light side choices.

And ofcourse they don't understand why people complain about the HM component. Because single play doesn't mean much to them, while they don't have the nostalgic feeling of HK either. So the value of HK and the issue at hand is completely beyond them.

 

"MMO-veteran" (vanilla EQ1 in 99') who played KotOR I and II here. I understand why people complain, I just disagree. It's one of the easiest HMs to go through and it can actually be fun to play a multi-player game with other people. For added context: I solo'd the entire HK questline save the 2 fps and parts of the scavenger hunt. When I got my first character to 50 in early January I had ZERO social points, trust me I felt the same way as a lot of you did from dealing with the WoW crowd. Truth is, in this game grouping isn't (always) as bad as some people seem to want to make it out to be, and you certainly don't need raid gear to go through HM flashpoints.

 

If 40 minutes of quasi-social interaction and co-operative gameplay are too much to ask then why play an MMORPG at all? What's the draw to being alone in a crowd?

[JediMB]

I am a long-time MMO player who didn't play KotOR. I loved the HK-51 mission chain. Especially the Theoretica part - I do like stories. You don't need to know KotOR to enjoy this story, really.

 

Observation: You are clearly a meatbag with taste, Master.

 

Recommendation: You might want to consider playing the KotOR games at some point. They're both available on Steam, in addition to the physical retail copies that are likely still floating around.

Edited November 19, 2012 by JediMB

[Divinehero]

......lol hard mode foundry/maelstrom is hard? lulz i'm sorry but if u can't complete that either ur bad or ur getting stuck w/ bads. those 2 are barely above hard mode black talon/esseless