Stealth Classes are UnBalanced

[TripleCharged]

So in summation, you don't know what's killing you, ("I can not name the skills that kill me") but they kill you in 3 hits ("Assassins can now take me out in three hits") and hit you for 25% per hit ("I see my health move down in 25%+ chunks each time an assassin hits me").

 

Seems legit.

 

I fail to see your point.

Me not knowing the name of the attack they are using is irrelevant.

I said they do 25%+, PLUS per hit. which can make it 3-4 hits, and even if those 3-4 hits do not finish me off then I am nearly done after that.

[IronScarlet]

Their DPS is more than sufficient to fight with any class I have played in PVP. Assassins now can take me out in 3 hits, and operatives DPS has always been high enough to kill me faster than I can kill them.

 

Ya hunker down is a pretty good defense against the stuns, and I have started using it more recently. But their dps is high enough that If I hunker down too close they will just DPS me faster than I can DPS them.

 

I just stop reading after this.

 

I have a jugg/tank, gunslinger, and op healer.

 

If skill is the same a gunslinger has a 50/50 chance of killing a stealther.

I find myself about 7/10 killing a stealther after they open on me as a MM.

 

First you have to play the class to feel them. I swear there have been time I’ll be perched in aldrean and go” it’s to quit” or "where are the stealther" drop hunker down and a split second later 1-2 will open up on me KB,(If 2 flashbang), burn, aimed shot Kb, legshot, burn. They have no hope I can here them screaming why there so close but not in melee. Op dps is the worst in game and the skill player who use it; will lose to a skilled player in another class. Doesn’t mean op can’t kill, just they have no real place in anything anymore.

 

As a Jugg/tank I’ll take the open, laff and charge/intercede away. Mark, while he’s confused and stuck in the open charge back , stun and let the dps pile on..

 

Op healer vs stealthers, hahhahaha no need to explain Op healer wins, in win I mean op healer should never stop moving, and can stun as much as the stealther can , + can escape anything,

 

Op dps need HELP or need it needs its own nitch

Assassins are fine

 

Neither are op, nor if you’re always a target it’s a l2p issue, they kill you because they can’t kill anyone else that knows how to play there class. + The main reason anyone targets anyone is CAN I KILL THEM and How Fast. Stealth dps kills range dps its the food chain, your there type be rdy for it, if you cant win make yourself the most annoying kill.

 

After reading more

Dirty fighting s#*ks agianst stealthers , you are back loaded damage they are front loaded.

2 ways you can handle this. Both are breaks and hunker, then u can go 2 ways, drop xs freighter on your location and fight or pulse kb, then DoT and run, u are as fast as them and kite, u should be find keep leg shot and sever tendom when close, Geared MM are so much better at killing everything in my opinion, so many tools.

 

 

 

 

 

I suggest playing a IA/op dps learn it and then you will be a better player. They really need help, Healer gets a gold star.

Edited November 12, 2012 by IronScarlet

[chimex]

I dont feel like reading through a mess of text to find the names, and I do not read the log in my chat every time I die.

 

Until you DO feel like reading what's happpening, can we all assume youre talking baloni? Afterall, you're assuming assasins are knocking off 25% or more per hit. There have been many brilliant suggestions here to help you in your pvp plight, each of which you have barked and scoffed against. With an attitude like "I can't be bothered" or "why does everyone tell me to use scans?!!" Simple, despite your experience, they work!

 

Now, I (like many others have) suggest you go to a pvp match, try out a few things we've suggested. At the same time, record the exact name of abilities along with your current equiptement configuration. That way, we can more readily determine where the issue lies and how we can further help. Until then, don't be rude to polite hints and suggestions, there's a good boy.

[MusicRider]

Am I the only one that feels this way? Every time I pvp, whether it be on my VanguardTank, my Gunslinger, or my SageDPS. Stealth classes slaughter me and many other people I see. The is no good, reliable way to counter a stealth class. They can run away from a losing fight with a single button click. They can pop out of stealth and take your health down(or kill you) before their stuns are finished to the point where you are unable to combat them anymore. Even if these classes did not have stealth they would be able to stand their own in a PVP match cause they are strong enough without it, but when you add stealth to the equation they become nearly unstoppable in 1v1 fights. Many of my deaths come from some stealther sitting around waiting for me to walk by them, or singling me out as I am on my way to battle, or as I am defending a turret they come up and stealth kill me, giving me the choice of calling out to my teammates and dieing, or trying to fight them and usually lose.

 

As a sage your bubble stun has god protection against stealthers. As a gunslinger use a knockback or cc immunity and you have the upper hand.

[yauhen_pt]

i have assassin full wh aug. as deception spec i am opening usually with shock and discharge (reckless) then low slash (stun) and maul (if proc) or v. slash, then shock (reckless) or electrolute (waste of reckless charge, 4 sec stun), blackout and maul (if proc) or v. slash and shock (plus 30% from v. slash) if target below 30%hp ill use assassinate.

shock crit deals around 3.8k dmg, discharge crit 3.5k (but can b 4.5/4.8k from spec), low slash (not crit) 1.5k, maul (proc not crit/proc crit) 3.5-5.5k (on guys with low expertize it can go up to 7k^^), v. slash (half crit) 2k, electrolute (crit) 1.2k, assassinate (not crit/crit) 2.8-5k., i.e. with this rotation ill deal 16k-23k and it will take 7-8 sec, but these values r mainly without dmg reduction, if u r tank u have to multiply these values on 0.6-0.5, i.e. i ll not able to drop u below 50%hp in 7-8 sec even if ull not use any def ability!

i can kill or drop low fast unbubled sage/shadow(not tank)/sent/jugg(not tank)/smugler/op/sniper but in same way they can kill me fast too (except sage/sniper). moreover i can not spam this dmg continuously (since deception assassins have problem with force), assassin doesnt have any super hit (like mara/jugg, nerf mara/jugg aoe!), and its very soft (in dps vs dps fight i usually wipe around 70%hp in 3-4 sec/or another dps wipe my 70% hp).

 

nerf operatives!

[cycao]

I fail to see your point.

Me not knowing the name of the attack they are using is irrelevant.

I said they do 25%+, PLUS per hit. which can make it 3-4 hits, and even if those 3-4 hits do not finish me off then I am nearly done after that.

 

I don't know...knowing what they are hitting you with seems pretty relevant in terms of actually wanting to learn how to counter certain classes in this game instead of using generalizations like "25%" each attack seems very suspect and might be just yourself and poor knowledge of how mechanics works in pvp.

[Joesixxpack]

OP,

It sounds like you don't understand how good a VG can be against stealths. Roll an imp stealth and it'll become quickly obvious to you.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Joesixxpack

[Groncho]

after reading carefully the op statements im pretty sure that soon we are gonna have another haxx, speedhack, autocrit godmode cheat thread, combined with pvp sucks, resolve is broken and remove all the stuns

[Crawelc]

after reading carefully the op statements im pretty sure that soon we are gonna have another haxx, speedhack, autocrit godmode cheat thread, combined with pvp sucks, resolve is broken and remove all the stuns

 

If only Groncho. We will actually have 5 new threads on each of those topics seperately.

[Jiminison]

This is what alot of people say, They like the fact that their class is Overpowered and are to ignorant to realize how broken it is. People tell me I am just whining, but I am look at this from a standpoint of balance, and they are simply not balanced. Also, bring valid arguments to the discussion.

 

No us who do play stealth get burned down quick from someone who knows how to kite that is our experience. So why would we admit to anything you act if the only experience that matters is yours. I could complain about hmm lets see BH's ,Agents ,Mara, shall i go on! play a stealth class and fight against a good kiter which is how ranged is designed to play. you will change your tune and pick the proper stats and build but then you may be more weak against another class.

[Anishor]

In my experience as a min-maxed Mara a good fully geared Operative or Scoundral will have me with about 25% of my health left before they're done their CC rotation. The first fight is usually close with me winning but if I don't have all my cooldowns I am dead. It's annoying but not really operative's fault, and speaks more to the idea that has been tossed around about changing resolve or the CD on the CC break.

[TyrellJonez]

OK lemme sum up this whole arguement so far. You don't like stealthers for various reasons.

 

Assassins kill you in 3 hits. No, they don't. You actually don't know whats killing you because you refuse to look through the combat log. As someone mentioned, that doesn't happen and since i roll an assassin in almost full WH gear, the only way i kill someone in 3 hits is if they are wearing recruit gear or pve gear and its only light armor wearers who don't get a chance to use a defensive cooldown.

 

Your lack of willingness to learn what is so effective in killing you results in you not being able to counter it. If you do not change then guess what? Assasins will always mop the floor with you. Adapt or keep dying, but crying about it solves nothing.

 

You say stealth scan isn't effective? for the most part it is true since it can be seen and avoided by those you intend to catch with it. You had TWO solutions given to you to make it more effectove. You have chosen to make excuses and not try. Again, if you won't use the tools provided then accept you defeat quietly. If your a vanguard/PT you have heavy armor, kolto infusion and energy shield. You can survive the burst and fight back and stealth scan when they try to escape. If you can't, thats your INABILITY to do so, not the stealth class being over-powered.

 

You have been given a lot of good advice and tactics to fix your problem. You can either embrace them and learn to counter stealthers, or you can continue to complain and beg for nerfs like a child. The choice is yours.

[TripleCharged]

The more I play PvP the more Frustrated I become.

I Have been pvping a lot on my sage and many imps have started to recognize and target me because of just how much I slaughter their team if they ignore me. This also comes with a lot of stealthers going out of their way to single me out and knock me down. A few times if the player is bad or just too low of a level to have the right skills I can get away and/or kill them even after stunning me from stealth. I have yet to hit 50 PvP on my sage and I know that when I do I am going to be just pummled by Elite War Hero gear in my recruit gear making stealthers all the more unbalanced in PvP. Even once I do get full Elite War Hero level 50 stealthers have so many controls at their disposal they will still destroy me and anyone they decide to kill if they wait for their cooldowns.

I can think of 2 fixes for stealth classes.

1) resolve needs to be reworked for stealth class stuns and abilities because as a sage my Force stun fills up resolve bar by at least 75+% and renders many of my next controls useless.

2) While stealthed, stealthers do no get their cooldowns back. AKA if a cooldown has 20 seconds left on in, and they go into stealth, the cooldown would stay at 20 seconds until they come out of stealth.

[Ferkles]

As a shadow Infiltration build, I'm playing probably the biggest burst-stealth class at the moment. All I can say is that the stealth part is REALLY crucial. I have no survivability otherwise. I can maybe win a 1v2 against bad players in recruit gear, but it will be a close run thing and will leave me with all my defensives on CD.

[Devinia-Hex]

It's true they have initial Burst but after that burst is gone they can be dealt with if you survive. My healing build deals with them better then my dps build but I do have instant whirlwind and force slow if my stun breaker is down as dps or I'm already low then it was just a good target for them but I will focus them them every time after and keep dots up at all times. Eventually they loose the suprise and life becomes difficult for them with a sorc dotting them up all those that they attacked while at half health get a little payback.

 

If the rest of the team knows there is a high burst stealther they can be contained and there damage reduction isn't that good to slow down multiple attackers. They shine at 1v1 mostly because they have the opener and force cooldowns. The class does take gear/skill to play well and set up some of the combos they use I wouldn't say they are op'd though.

[TripleCharged]

It's true they have initial Burst but after that burst is gone they can be dealt with if you survive. My healing build deals with them better then my dps build but I do have instant whirlwind and force slow if my stun breaker is down as dps or I'm already low then it was just a good target for them but I will focus them them every time after and keep dots up at all times. Eventually they loose the suprise and life becomes difficult for them with a sorc dotting them up all those that they attacked while at half health get a little payback.

 

If the rest of the team knows there is a high burst stealther they can be contained and there damage reduction isn't that good to slow down multiple attackers. They shine at 1v1 mostly because they have the opener and force cooldowns. The class does take gear/skill to play well and set up some of the combos they use I wouldn't say they are op'd though.

 

But their burst is high enough so that even if their dps is 1/4 of what it is during their intial burst, your health is already so low that you are screwed no matter what happens sometimes. And if they stun you from stealth and you do not have your cc break, you are just screwed might as well sit there and do nothing.

[UGLYMRJ]

Breaking news!!!

 

Bursty stealth classes are great for killing squishy ranged classes.

 

More at 11.

[Chlomamf]

Am I the only one that feels this way? Every time I pvp, whether it be on my Gunslinger(50/50 WH/BM), or my SageDPS(not yet level 50). Stealth classes slaughter me and many other people I see. The is no good, reliable way to counter a stealth class. They can run away from a losing fight with a single button click. They can pop out of stealth and take your health down(or kill you) before their stuns are finished to the point where you are unable to combat them anymore. Even if these classes did not have stealth they would be able to stand their own in a PVP match cause they are strong enough without it, but when you add stealth to the equation they become nearly unstoppable in 1v1 fights. Many of my deaths come from some stealther sitting around waiting for me to walk by them, or singling me out as I am on my way to battle, or as I am defending a turret they come up and stealth kill me, giving me the choice of calling out to my teammates and dieing, or trying to fight them and usually lose.

I removed my vanguard because I was a bad player in poor gear when I played on him in PVP, I no longer gear him for pvp.

 

And that is one of the reasons, my good man, that I rolled a Sin.

[UGLYMRJ]

I removed my vanguard because I was a bad player in poor gear when I played on him in PVP, I no longer gear him for pvp.

 

News update....

 

Vanguards are terrible and too complicated for the average player!

 

 

Stay tuned for more details.

[Technohic]

Breaking news!!!

 

Bursty stealth classes are great for killing squishy ranged classes.

 

More at 11.

 

News update....

 

Vanguards are terrible and too complicated for the average player!

 

 

Stay tuned for more details.

 

This news is confusing due to the conflicting styles of satire.

[UGLYMRJ]

This news is confusing due to the conflicting styles of satire.

 

FOX fired me and then I was quickly hired by CNN.

[NoTomorrow]

I used to hate stealth classes with passion. The way they could see you from kilometers away while defending caps, let you start capping, then mind trap you on 7th second, wait 8 seconds, still not engage, wait for another attempt to cap, as lets be honest, you will not pop up that asasin out of stealth, unless he is terrible. And when you start capping for second time he can either mindtrap again or simply engage you instead of filling your resolve. And then he can stay alive with his CDs and tank spec for while and still have force cloak for another capping interrupt. He has hust holded the cap from capture long enough for even Polish cavalry to arrive to aid.

 

Ok, so you wanna play rough? I can be a jerk too. *rolls concealment ops*, cloak, near enemy cap stealth, move a little around till i spot the bastard, and then have the scum have a taste of his own medicine. Getting hidden striked while you are invisible is the most humiliating thing that can happen to an assasin.

 

On a serious note, mind trap and ops equivalent needs to be removed from pvp.

Edited December 3, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[TripleCharged]

News update....

 

Vanguards are terrible and too complicated for the average player!

 

 

Stay tuned for more details.

 

It was my first character and I still use him to tank Operations. I could probably go back and do much better in PVP now but i prefer my Range classes over melee.

[TripleCharged]

I used to hate stealth classes with passion. The way they could see you from kilometers away while defending caps, let you start capping, then mind trap you on 7th second, wait 8 seconds, still not engage, wait for another attempt to cap, as lets be honest, you will not pop up that asasin out of stealth, unless he is terrible. And when you start capping for second time he can either mindtrap again or simply engage you instead of filling your resolve. And then he can stay alive with his CDs and tank spec for while and still have force cloak for another capping interrupt. He has hust holded the cap from capture long enough for even Polish cavalry to arrive to aid.

 

Ok, so you wanna play rough? I can be a jerk too. *rolls concealment ops*, cloak, near enemy cap stealth, move a kittle around till i spot the bastard, and then have the scum have a taste of his own medicine. Getting hidden striked while you are invisible is the most humiliating thing that can happen to an assasin.

 

On a serious note, mind trap and ops needs to be removed from pvp.

 

This is another example of the Unbalanced nature of Stealthers. The ability to just annoy the **** out of people so they make a mistake and break a stun they shouldnt have and then slaughter them from there.

[Technohic]

Quit being a hero and trying to solo cap a node; cowboy.

 

Unless you are a stealther going for the ninja.

 

*Trollface*