Kyzic Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I have 4 50s and I have spent my time learning to play each one of them effectively. But when I play my gunslinger vs a assassin/shadow, marauder/sent, or guardian/juggernaught I have no chance. Especially with the new changes to the shadow/assassin tree that drop force speed from 30 secs to 20 secs you have now given them virtuely unable to be snared or rooted. Almost every assassin/shadow now runs with some kind of tank build simply because you have made the tank classes so powerful that dps classes hardly do any dmg against them but they still deal out the same out of dmg as a pure dps class. My gunslinger used to be able to dispatch a marauder pretty effectively but now with the amount of dmg they put out and a gunslinger's roots being nearly ineffective you made them into a commando that wears medium armor. The biggest thing is a marauder/sent get a better combat stealth than any of the classes that can actually stelath. Come on a marauder/sent shouldn't be able to go into stealth and walk up on a ranged class without being able to be detected at all plus having only a 45 sec cooldown that is less than half of what the actual stealth classes have on their combat stealths. Plus it gives them 50% dmg reduction heck all they need to do to be is stealth walk up on a ranged class start beating the crap out of them and if they do manage to get low just pop their 99% dmg reduction which will easily last until they dispatch the target. When it comes to a juggernaught it is impossible to keep them away from me. You give gunslingers a stun that has a 4 meter range which is a joke right? I mean by the time we use dirty kick and try to run any class that can charge will just charge to you and if you do manage to get a little distance and get into cover you are barely any distance from them and they have very little room to go before being right on top of you again. Couldn't gunslingers get a 30 meter stun that actually suits their class? You were able to make flash grenade into a 30 meter ability but you couldn't make an ability that allows for gunslingers who are purely a ranged class have a 30 meter stun but you could do it for a VG and commando. I mean you are allowing a tank class that wears heavy armor to pop out a 5k AOE without even thinking twice. And this goes right with PT/VGs too a heavy armored class that is capable of out damaging a dps class in almost every situation and being able to survive longer because they can take the hits. And I do know from experience because I have a VG and he out dmgs my GS who are both equally geared. And this doesn't just because I die on my gunslinger a lot this is for almost any dps class who shouldn't be getting out dmged by a tank class that is mostly spec'd into the tank tree. Another terrible decision was taking away the consular/inquistor's 30 meter stun. You now allow one 2 classes to have a 30 meter stun and that is it. Simply fix the classes why do you think you lost so many subscribers. I love the game but the classes are completely falling apart. Please get it under control. I know almost all of you will disagree with me but most of you that will disagree can't deny you don't play one of these classes I am discussing. And I will admit I may be wrong about pieces of it but we all know the classes are not balanced and only certain builds are worth having in pvp anymore and if you don't use one of those builds you are going to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Wow. Ok. Wow. You play 3 of the best classes in the game...I always hate to say this but L2p perhaps. If this is going when im sober in the morning ill provide detail. Edited October 5, 2012 by cycao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboB Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 . . .I know almost all of you will disagree with me but most of you that will disagree can't deny you don't play one of these classes I am discussing. And I will admit I may be wrong about pieces of it but we all know the classes are not balanced and only certain builds are worth having in pvp anymore and if you don't use one of those builds you are going to struggle. ...and? Other than rock, paper, scissors, name one fully balanced PvP game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grallmate Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Wow. Ok. Wow. You play 3 of the best classes in the game...I always hate to say this but L2p perhaps. If this is going when im sober in the morning ill provide detail. What he said. You know nothing about any of those classes. My sniper destroys PTs, Juggs and Maras. If they get close it becomes dicey but you have to tools to deal with it. There are no 30m stuns anymore, only 30m mezzes that break on damage. Longest stun range is 10m now, if anything that should HELP your 'Slinger. Pro tip: if you see a Mara run towards you and pop stealth: drop a XS Freighter Flyby on yourself and get ready to pop dodge when they start to Ravage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 But when I play my gunslinger vs a marauder/sent I have no chance. Gunslingers are pretty much the hard counter to Marauders/Sents. You shouldn't be having trouble with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 This is going to sound weird, but as a Sorc healer I find the easiest class for me to go up against 1vs1 is a Gunslinger/Sniper. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardim Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Alright, I have a few things to say. For one thing, perfect class balance is virtually impossible to achieve. And besides, this game is actually pretty decently balanced (In my opinion, of course. You're welcome to disagree). Another thing. Every class has a different fighting style and/or role that works as long as you use it right. I rarely have trouble in battles because I know the pros and cons of every class (Then again, admittedly, I've technically played every single class in the game) and thus I know how to counter them. Everything is viable as long as you're able to adapt and use different tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 This is going to sound weird, but as a Sorc healer I find the easiest class for me to go up against 1vs1 is a Gunslinger/Sniper. Why is that? Becuase you fight bad ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarenergy Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) This is going to sound weird, but as a Sorc healer I find the easiest class for me to go up against 1vs1 is a Gunslinger/Sniper. Why is that? You're one strange sorc then! I find it is easier to kill sages/sorcs than any other class with my sniper, especially the healers since their dps is so low. Of course they will try to heal themselves, but I can easily out-dps their heals, I feel it's part of my job as a sniper to do that. Next easiest for me are the marauders/sentinels. Probably 3/4 of all the solo kill medals I've ever gotten are from killing a marauder or sentinel. It's because we're built to be their kryptonite. Many times I've kept them at distance through roots/stuns/kbs that I've killed them with over half my hp still intact. Looking back now, it's hard to believe I actually used to fear them back when I was a very young and inexperienced sniper, and I panicked when I saw lightsabers waving around, but that was so long ago. The only time I have trouble with them if they use their cheap Houdini trick which is the only thing I think is OP about them. The only classes I really have trouble with as a sniper are assassins/shadows and dps scoundrels/ops. If there are two or more of them on an enemy team and they notice me, it can really make my warzone hell. Edited October 5, 2012 by Solarenergy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warultima Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 On my slinger sorcs/sages are tasty treats that sometimes hand me 4 medals in 1 kill. (2.5k damage, 5k damage, killing blow, 1v1). It's even funnier when they dont LoS me and tries to damage trade with me, I can kill them thru 2 fresh bubbles, and a critical unnatural preservation heal and a WZ Medpack before I had to pop my WZ medpack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzic Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 Okay maybe its simply this between the resolve bar and anyone still in BM the grind the WH is just stupid. I have worked on playing against a marauder and it has gotten better (I will admit when I am wrong and Marauders/Sents are as bad as I thought) but still going up against a shadow/assassin tank spec or 23/1/17 (and lets be honest maybe 2% of pvpers don't use one of those as an assassin/shadow) they are just ungodly overpowered. The ability to break free from any of my movement impairing effects and pop FiB from being rooted 30m away they are just stupid overpowered right now. And my only complaint for VG/PT and Juggernaught/Guardians is simpy a tank class should not be doing 5-7k hits on me and still be hard as hell to kill. If they are going to be a have the defense of tank than lower their dmg if they are going to do the dmg of a dps then lower their defense. Right now it takes too long to try to kill them as a class that is supposed to be a dps class. And this is more about my gunslinger than any of my other classes. My scoundrel is a healer is lets just face it, it takes about 3 people to be able to kill him. My VG falls into the upper category i am to the point where I am simply taking out 3 people at once. And my shadow again falls into the upper category usually the only people that kill me on him are juggernaughts or other tank sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardim Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 What spec are you on your Gunslinger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totaltrash Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 This is going to sound weird, but as a Sorc healer I find the easiest class for me to go up against 1vs1 is a Gunslinger/Sniper. Why is that? Heh, I don't know how you can kill a Sniper with a Sorc healer BUT my favorite targets when I play my Sorc DPS are Snipers/GS. Of course, when I play my sniper, my favorite targets are Sorc/Sages - go figure. DPS Sorc/Sage can easily od a Sniper/GS, Sniper/GS can easily interrupt and od a Sorc/Sage healer. Back to the OP's post, I agree that adjustments are needed (but not necessarily the ones he suggests). Of course, Bioware does not listen to the community nor do they read the forums. The "world's best PVP team" knows better even if they never play the game themselves. Every change they made to PVP since launch clearly reflects that. Every patch degrades the experience a little more for us. So, I'm sorry to say but these balance threads are a HUGE WASTE OF TIME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centures Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Very good thread People are being honest My operative is not only OP but I can kill just about anyone sooner than later We need to have honest assessments, not powerful classes protecting "thier turf" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvendon Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 IMO, some classes just scale better than other classes, especially when you hit level 50. Sages are very competitive until level 50 and then they are pretty much forced to go heals in order to contribute as much as another class would in their place. I agree with the previous comment that Bioware just does not listen to their player base. The continually roll out changes that are neither asked for nor required. I also agree that they do not even play their own game in a competitive atmosphere. They may test things on their little protected server but if you throw them into a 50 rated as a dps sorc/sage then they would have a rough go of it imo. Balance forum posts are not useless; the forums are here for that. Unfortunately, as in any game, the overpowered classes watch carefully for any threads that point out the discrepancies among classes and they always make sure to enlighten us with their counterclaims. It is akin to professional athletes who draw fouls with bogus flops in order to fool the senior-citizen referees. They know that they are overpowered and they just want to prolong their free, skill-less ride. They get on every balance-request thread and leave 'QQ' or 'L2P' comments. But can we blame them? It can all be solved if the developers would just play their own damn game, as each class and in a truly competitive environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ycoga Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Heh, I don't know how you can kill a Sniper with a Sorc healer Force speed to close the gap, bubble stun to blind, DoT's to damage them, LoS to give you time. If they break cover to chase, that's when they've handed you all the advantage. Quite simple really. Edited October 5, 2012 by Ycoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaedalusV Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Snipers kill bad sage healers. Good sage healers aren't bothered much by those turrets. LoS hardcounters them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzic Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 What spec are you on your Gunslinger? My gunslinger is a sharpshooter build and I do understand that is not the idela choice for a gunslinger and that dirty fighting is better because the dots avoid the defenses of a tank class but that is my point. Make the other trees viable for pvp and allow them to be competitive and not make one build or tree basically required to be a competitve pvper as that class. When I PVE with my gunslinger i favor the sharpshooter tree simply because crap dies too fast for dirty fighting dots to truly take affect (this is of course in FPs and not OPs where as I feel both trees are viable in the OPs). And personally I feel a gunslinger is a simply what it says a gunslinger they should do big dmg from a distance and not have to go to a tree that makes them into something like a balance sage where they have to let a dot tick off and use some very few burst abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 OP, now's a good time to learn how to play your toon well, and adjust your tactics appropriately. Source: My underspecced, undergeared sab GS, who'd be laughing his butt off at your post if he weren't merely pixels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstergar Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I'm not familiar with the gunslinger tree but if sharpshooter is the mirror of sniper's marksmen then we've found your problem. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 MM Sniper even is fine IMO. You take your support role and take what you can get. You know how you spot a really bad MM sniper? They try to pursue you around LOS for the kill when you are no direct threat to them. After playing mostly MM and eng sniper, when I went to level toons, I knew right away by this. Sniper chasing a marauder? In the open, you can melt them, but don't follow them around corners. I even was harassing 2 at the same time with my merc specced arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarenergy Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) My gunslinger is a sharpshooter build and I do understand that is not the idela choice for a gunslinger and that dirty fighting is better because the dots avoid the defenses of a tank class but that is my point. Make the other trees viable for pvp and allow them to be competitive and not make one build or tree basically required to be a competitve pvper as that class. When I PVE with my gunslinger i favor the sharpshooter tree simply because crap dies too fast for dirty fighting dots to truly take affect (this is of course in FPs and not OPs where as I feel both trees are viable in the OPs). And personally I feel a gunslinger is a simply what it says a gunslinger they should do big dmg from a distance and not have to go to a tree that makes them into something like a balance sage where they have to let a dot tick off and use some very few burst abilities. My sniper is Marksmanship build, with several points in Engineering. And I feel I do the most damage that way, get the biggest hits. Also feel comfortable dealing with melee and I feel it's the best PVP build for me, and I play my best with it. I know tanks can reduce the damage with their shields, but I hardly ever target a full hp tank anyway. My job is more of to finish tanks off, not engage them from the start. I tried Lethality once and didn't like it at all. I agree, don't feel like it fit much with being a sniper putting a bunch of DoT's everywhere, and moving around too much. Also it consumed too much resource and it seemed to attract more melee to me, probably due to spending more time out of cover. It didn't feel sniper-ish at all. And if they have a decent healer (which about 2/3 of teams I come up against do), all he has to do is give them a cleanse and your DoT"s don't mean crap. Too many advocate the Lethality build because it provides more mobility. But they are missing the point. A sniper is not meant to be mobile. That's not your role, not your job, not how the class is designed. You're supposed to sit in cover and shoot people and go unnoticed as long as you can while you take targets down. That's how the class is played. You're not supposed to be mobile. Classes have different roles, and a big part of a sniper's role is spending most of his time in cover. To those that hate cover, well than sniper isn't the class or role for them and they should be playing something else. Also what above poster said. It's very annoying to be LOS'ed but it's not wise to go chasing them. I've seen so many snipers chasing people in warzones just to kill one guy. Again, you are not a run-and-gun class. You aren't supposed to be out there in the middle running around or chasing anyone. If they are LOS"ing you, they aren't trying to kill you. If it's a healer though, you might want to make all efforts to kill the so they don't hide behind that pillar and heal for the whole match. But other than that, I'll just pick a new target and wait for the guy who thinks he can outsmart me to pop back from behind the pillar, which I know he eventually will. He can't stay there forever. Edited October 5, 2012 by Solarenergy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Idk about you guys, but what I got from the op was: I can't kill skilled players who use these classes, bioware nerf them so I can kill them! That about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Isnt that exactly what they're doing. It's indirectly leading to there only being two classes, and their mirrors in Warzones; Warriors and Agent healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalnarDegana Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yeah, I like my Sharpshooter Gunslinger in PvP. You get a lot of stopping power. It is a healer-killing spec. I CAN kill tanks, if they don't have their cooldowns, but that isn't really my job. I like that I can't spec to do everything. I can spec for survival, burst DPS, or long-term DPS, and I am ok with not having as much overlap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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