What is holding back SWTOR the most?

[Paintcheck]

We can all pretty much identify the symptoms that are hurting this game. Slow development time compared to other MMOs, bugs, VERY slow to fix even minor bugs, slow to introduce new content compared to other MMOs, failure to optimize performance issues, etc. What are your thoughts on what's holding back SWTOR, and what are the biggest threats to this game?

 

1) Hero Engine - is this underlying platform so cumbersome that the pace of improvement of the game will never improve? Is it simply too expensive and take too much man-power to implement even the slightest content additions?

 

2) EA - according to several accounts, EA considers SWTOR a massive failure and has effectively put this game on the backburner and is silently letting the Bioware people in charge of SWTOR know that their future at the company is limited. Can they provide the resources (time, money, people) to turn this game around?

 

At this point it seems apparent that we will not see any revolutionary changes to this game. The only changes that seem likely are additional content, bug fixes and slight optimizations. This would of course result in only reducing the rate at which current players leave, but will not result in a massive renewed interest in the game. What needs to change to turn this game around, and is it even possible?

 

The engine can't be changed but number 2 is spot on and so is your conclusion although I will be a pessimist and say we probably won't see additional content either, at least not meaningful amounts of it. Maybe a warzone or something simple here and there but I would be very surprised if any story mode stuff came out beyond Makeb (and seeing as we've been waiting for Makeb for ages with no updates on it at all perhaps we won't even see that) which was in development before EA decided to abandon the game.

 

Whoever said this was WAR again was correct. EA gave up on TOR ages ago and unless F2P generates a huge amount of revenue (which it won't because there's no content being created for people to pay for) it's not going to turn around.

[Izorii]

There is probably as many ideas as to what caused TOR to "fail" as there are people. Maybe the days of the huge subscription MMO are over. Personally I think the game was too linar I like the lv 1-49 story but even this can seem a bit too much like Go to point A, then Point B, Back to Point A then Point C with no thought needed on my part. I also dislike the fact that I play BW idea of a JK not my own, I want a cowardly Mon Cal Jedi but I cant because I have to go off and save the galaxy. Maybe they will turn it around, but I would have thought new species, new sand box features, new guild and comunity events/items but it looks like they plan to roll out another 5 levels of the same game we got from lv 1-50.

[Wuggzie]

The thing holding back SWTOR the most is the pessimistic community that keeps on ranting on the forums driving new and old players away from the game.

 

Whining about an MMO just means you have no real life...get a real life OP.

[deucexmachina]

We can all pretty much identify the symptoms that are hurting this game. Slow development time compared to other MMOs, bugs, VERY slow to fix even minor bugs, slow to introduce new content compared to other MMOs, failure to optimize performance issues, etc. What are your thoughts on what's holding back SWTOR, and what are the biggest threats to this game?

 

1) Hero Engine - is this underlying platform so cumbersome that the pace of improvement of the game will never improve? Is it simply too expensive and take too much man-power to implement even the slightest content additions?

 

2) EA - according to several accounts, EA considers SWTOR a massive failure and has effectively put this game on the backburner and is silently letting the Bioware people in charge of SWTOR know that their future at the company is limited. Can they provide the resources (time, money, people) to turn this game around?

 

3) Wrong vision at Bioware - according to several accounts, Bioware envisioned this game to be more of a heavily-instanced, multiplayer RPG with MMO elements. Will this vision ever change?

 

At this point it seems apparent that we will not see any revolutionary changes to this game. The only changes that seem likely are additional content, bug fixes and slight optimizations. This would of course result in only reducing the rate at which current players leave, but will not result in a massive renewed interest in the game. What needs to change to turn this game around, and is it even possible?

 

#2) ... SWTOR is on the low end of EA's care for list.

 

#3) ... The changes made to classes that make no sense, the lack of listening to the players that test the patches, the lack fixing existing problems like bugs already in the game and the added ones with the patches, and in my opinion the now clouded vision of what the direction once was for the games direction.

[anwg]

To me, the story is the most lackluster part, even though this is billed as a story driven MMO. The problem I have is the story are only advanced during dialogs, we are told what is happening most of the times, rather than being directly in the events ourselves, in the end, they felt boring (much like the prequel movies). Also, there's no change to the world outside of the instances (or most of the times even in the instances), I liberated Belmorra, but Imperial troops are still everywhere, etc.

 

Also, the class stories themselves are on rails, like during the agent class story:

 

 

I chose to side of Jadus, but nothing changed, except Watcher Two had an extra line, despite she calling me a traitor etc during the mission.

 

 

 

Also, there seems to be no relationship between the stories, one earth shattering event happened early on in the Agent story, yet, if you level up other classes, you never hear a thing about it.

Edited October 4, 2012 by anwg

[FlyinSpaghetti]

The thing holding back SWTOR the most is the pessimistic community that keeps on ranting on the forums driving new and old players away from the game.

 

The thing holding the game back is instead of Bioware listening to the people that say:

 

"I like this game but there's this bug..." or "this new thing doesn't work quite well" or " I can't play until this is fixed"

 

They listen to the people that say:

 

"dis iz wikid, best game eva .. I can haz free Tawnfawn?"

[Journeyer]

Was negativity an option?

 

Not directed at you, OP, it's a fair question. But generally insane expectations, mostly *not* instigated by Bioware, but rather by forum posters interpreting things like "later this year" to mean things like "next week" and "updates month after month" to mean "new Op, FP, PvP zone, and story chapter every month" have very thoroughly killed this game for many. It's burnout really--the imagination of all that a game could be in 5 years' time smashes into the desire to have all of those things realized as soon as possible.

[Raideag]

Mainly what I see as the hold back is they didn't get a lease option with the Hero Engine. Instead they went ahead and purchased it outright as it was at that point in time. So the version they got was as is with no future updates so all the updates have to be done in house. If they would have just got a lease option instead all the future updates to the game engine would have been handled by the game engine company instead of being done in-house.

 

Wasting more resources just to develop tools to help you build the game instead of focusing more time on actual content.

[DashaAdair]

I see two major issues:

 

1. Overall poor planning and implementation. The best example of this is the server population problems. The past 6 months have fairly well been consumed by dealing with the effects of the miscalculations of the intitial server structure and the ad hoc responses to it. EA/BW seems to have had no plans for how to deal with server population issues. It's been a constant annoyance for much of the community.

 

2. Poor integration of the game elements. SWTOR has some really good things going for it. However too many of the elements, good and bad, are disconnected from each other. Space combat is basically a side game that can be totally ignored without loss. While set up ideally for RvR gameplay, PvP and clashes between the Republic and Empire have no impact on play. Light/Dark decisions have little impact outside of the individual class storyline other than a couple of vendors.

 

The disconnected part is one of the things I noticed with the class changes in 1.4. Before that there was a sort of internal consistency to the classes. I just made an inquisitor and when I got stun the 10m range was a very jarring disconnect visually. I was standing way to close to be comfortable. The 30m range fit far better visually and tactically.

 

The new changes don’t feel right.

 

Another odd inconsistency comes from the snare placed on Kolto Bomb. It was like, ‘we need a snare, where can we put it?’ Is it a good thing to have? Yes. Tagged onto Kolto Bomb? Meh.

 

An additional problem is not effectively changing from game development company to an MMO company. By that I mean not coming to the realization that you can’t change things unilaterally without a customer cost. Adding on creates less friction then changing or deleting things. Don’t underestimate the value of stability-not just technical stability, but also a stable experience from day to day. Add things to do. Add missions. Add abilities. Don’t change by taking away things unless you absolutely have to.

[Sarfux]

From the person I know....I will tell you what he said.

 

EA is holding this game back. They aren't giving the team the resources nor the leverage to do what they want. They are still going for the topple wow thing. I don't understand EA.

[tiennen]

Mainly what I see as the hold back is they didn't get a lease option with the Hero Engine. Instead they went ahead and purchased it outright as it was at that point in time. So the version they got was as is with no future updates so all the updates have to be done in house. If they would have just got a lease option instead all the future updates to the game engine would have been handled by the game engine company instead of being done in-house.

 

Wasting more resources just to develop tools to help you build the game instead of focusing more time on actual content.

This man speaks sense.

[iheartnyc]

Whining about an MMO just means you have no real life...get a real life OP.

 

I wrote that post on my iPad in my office while working, before I got off to meet my girlfriend and her friend to eat some crabs and grab some drinks. My life is intact, and even more so given that there is no new content to grind out in this MMO

[Urael]

From the person I know....I will tell you what he said.

 

EA is holding this game back. They aren't giving the team the resources nor the leverage to do what they want. They are still going for the topple wow thing. I don't understand EA.

 

Here is all there is to understand about EA:

 

It's all about the Benjamins

 

$$

 

[iheartnyc]

Was negativity an option?

 

Not directed at you, OP, it's a fair question. But generally insane expectations, mostly *not* instigated by Bioware, but rather by forum posters interpreting things like "later this year" to mean things like "next week" and "updates month after month" to mean "new Op, FP, PvP zone, and story chapter every month" have very thoroughly killed this game for many. It's burnout really--the imagination of all that a game could be in 5 years' time smashes into the desire to have all of those things realized as soon as possible.

 

I'm sure there were quite a few people with unrealistic expectations, and I'm sure a lot of them had left by Februrary. But if you've been around this forum long enough, you would remember that at first the forums were hugely negative (December/January), and then beginning in late Februrary/March, people were MUCH more positive. We all said, "give the Dev's time, they will pull through" and I remember all those "Wishlist" and "Why I love SWTOR" threads which were all happy go lucky. Then 1.2 came, people were like, "erggg what?". After 1.3 people were like, "what still nothing?" And now over this long and horribly quiet summer, we finally get a bug ridden 1.4 which added nothing other than a Raid, which is admittedly quite good.

 

Overall, I think those of us who are left have been reasonably patient with tempered expectations. Also, I think "qq'ing" on the forums actually makes it more likely people will continue to stay subbed, because it gives us a voice and makes as a stakeholder in this whole SWTOR enterprise (you know, something like getting emotionally invested in the well-being of this game). I think those who chose to stay quiet despite their silent grumblings have mostly left long ago, without saying goodbyes...it was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[bpphantom]

EA.

 

>end of line

[Sarfux]

Here is all there is to understand about EA:

 

It's all about the Benjamins

 

$$

 

 

Old BioWare that we once knew and loved. Did it for the PEOPLE. Didn't really care about the money. They connected with people through games.

 

EA bought em...buy buy that philosophy! It's all about money! You are right

[DeltaEkotte]

None of what the Op siad is what is hold back SWTOR the most.

 

***********It is the community. Us, you, me, everyone.*********

 

People have been complaining since day 1 about this game, I took a 2 month break from the game and the forums and nothing has changed, people are still trashing the game in general chats and on the forums. The ratio of I like this game to swtor sucks / I'm leaving threads is about 1 : 25. Its like cancer, if a large portion of the community doesn't like the game or says they don't like it, it will spread like a wild fire across the community. If we all stopped complaing and only give CONSTRUCTIVE cirtism/ideas people would enjoy the game a lot more and the game would stop being held back.

Edited October 4, 2012 by DeltaEkotte

[Glowrod]

I don't think this is the fault of the player base.

 

1) BW releases the game while it was still full of bugs. That was the first mistake they made.

2) Next, they didn't seem to put any dev resources into fixing those bugs. They still have bugs from release day, 10 months later.

3) They did a very poor job of engaging the community. It was months before they finally got into the forums to attempt to have conversations, but by then people were pretty mad.

4) The final problem they made is that they did (and still do) a very poor job of explaining themselves in the forums. They'd much rather delete posts and/or issue warnings than communicate and work with people.

 

They can try to blame the fan base, but in the end, the only blame is themselves.

[bpphantom]

I don't think this is the fault of the player base.

 

1) BW releases the game while it was still full of bugs. That was the first mistake they made.

2) Next, they didn't seem to put any dev resources into fixing those bugs. They still have bugs from release day, 10 months later.

3) They did a very poor job of engaging the community. It was months before they finally got into the forums to attempt to have conversations, but by then people were pretty mad.

4) The final problem they made is that they did (and still do) a very poor job of explaining themselves in the forums. They'd much rather delete posts and/or issue warnings than communicate and work with people.

 

They can try to blame the fan base, but in the end, the only blame is themselves.

 

Just to reinforce the true problem.

All of the above issues can be pointed directly at EA, and in turn the board and folks involved up there. The people that want their money. Naow. The people that don't give a crap about Star Wars, or story, or gameplay, or anything other than their balance.

[PakaOno]

Bioware/EA Management. Their priorities are such a joke right now that it's almost gotta be intentional.

 

This! It's the suits making the calls that are most responsible. You know what they say?

 

"The bantha doodoo starts at the top and rolls down hill"

[Raji_Lev]

EA.

 

>end of line

 

^ What he said.

[Muesliac]

Look, people actually do want story in their MMO. They want to be part of an over arching story and a personal one where they can be part of the tale along with millions of others. The problem is that developers don't put out enough story fast enough to keep the populace happy in any MMO.

 

I agree with your general sentiment: Players want to feel part of an over-arching gameworld. They want to be part of it, and do their part: They want to immerse themselves. Yes, even the most hard-core PvP freak wants immersion.

MMORPGs have to be more than just games; they must be worlds.

 

A personal story can be a strong link to your character, and through it, with the game world. But as you rightly say: Story cannot be produced as fast as it is consumed.

So it's up to other factors to make you feel like a significant part of the game world. One, you identify as "community". I agree: Of course, community can be a powerful integrator; perhaps it's even the prime integrator into a world there is. because nothing socializes like a genuine human being.

 

But apart from that, there are other things that can be done:

For example, Class Identity.I remember in Vanilla WoW, I felt like a Priest, even when grinding mobs or helping people through a dungeon. I did not feel like I was grinding or dungeonrunning. I felt like being a priest.

Part of that surely was that I had committed to one build, and that one build was all I had - it shaped me as I had shaped it. Part of it was that I looked the part, and so did my spells. Part of it was that I had class quests that reaffirmed my status and role in the world: Help the sick and ailing.

 

With time, all those things eroded. More talent specs were given, my role, my identity diluted. My gear began looking like it belonged to a crazy mage/clown/raptor hybrid. Class quests were taken out. Class identity was gone.

 

There's one other game that did class identity well, in my book: WAR. I always felt like a Warrior Priest, a Shadow Warrior, a Chosen of Khorne. It didn't have class quests, but it had very distinct class functions and gear. I could immerse myself there.

 

TOR regrettably falls short of that goal. Even though it plays to the immersion factor: "Personal quests" were never as poignant as those in TOR. But the thing is: In those personal quests, I play a very specific character. One that everyone else also plays. And the second the personal quests are done, this character vanishes completely. I feel like I'm sitting on a strange toon, with no personality imbued by hours and days wandering the game.

Secondly, they do have class armours. Mostly. BUT: They don't look very much StarWars-y after a certain point.

 

And to top it off, the game world in itself is very sterile and lifeless.

 

 

If TOR managed to play to the immersive strength inherent in TOR, it would really help its longevity.

[Gryphandor]

I must be playing a different game.

 

While I will admit to this game having issues. I will also admit to most all MMO's being released with them. I mean come on already. This is a fun great game.

 

My biggest issue was my attachment to WoW. I mean I had over 7 years invested in that game. It was really hard to break away from it. I mean it took boring fail Cataclysm and them adding Pandas and Pokemon battles to the game for me to break away.

 

I think I can say the same for many people in my guild who tried to play both games. Thier adult lives do not allow them the time to play two MMO's. The fact they all have years in WoW keeps them there. So SWToRs issue isn't that it is a bad game but that it can't steal players already so invested in another MMO.

 

No amount of anything they add to this game will fix that. I just know that every time I log in I have something I can do in SWToR on any number of my toons to have some fun and kill time. It has become more fun then WoW for me but I had to open myself up to the idea it could be after how horrible WoW got.

 

So out of all the issues SWToR might have. I would say the time it was released and players being very involved with other MMO's already is the real issue. Maybe this FTP option will allow for more people to switch over after some time but truth is. If you are a person with any kind of life. You don't have time for two MMO's.

 

The time I dedicated to WoW back in the day almost ended up putting me in divorce court! Just saying! SWToR is a great game.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Gryphandor

[Urael]

SWToR is a great game.

 

Prior to 1.4 I would have agreed with you. Not so much now.

[HelinCarnate]

...I still cannot for the life of me find that godbammed option that prohibits the camera from snapping back to the standard Over-The-Shoulder view the second I move....

 

Use your mouse to turn, not your keyboard. Get rid of the turn keys and turn them to strafe.