patchew Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 using the same logical thought process as wow ... listening to the nerdy spreadsheet-warriors and ignore the fun and frivolity that most players want. Hardcore raiders tend to dominate who the devs listen to, that thought process killed any fun in wow (it becme a job, you know it did. When was the last time you laughed at something within the game itself eh. Remember a member of a 40man accidentally pulling a boss in MC and you all laughed your pants off .... since LK, did you laugh? or shout at them on vent for wasting rez-time hmmmmm) and it is begining to do it here too. Be entertaining BIO, not serious. The vast majority of gamers dont want to take the game like its life-or-death, our subs are just as important as some nerdy little spreadsheet warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 We can all pretty much identify the symptoms that are hurting this game. Speak for yourself please. Not for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I think in these modern times, Vanilla/BC WoW is exactly what we need. The number one complaint, repeated across every MMO released since WoW, has been, "Now that I'm max level, there's nothing to do." I think what is needed is a combination between WoW & SWG best bits (I'd have said EQ1 and SWG, but the harder bits of EQ1 wouldn't fly these days, and WoW is just EQ1-lite), with DAoC's RvR(vR). It's amazing how little MMORPGs have innovated, basically the core concept of SWTOR is no different to 1999 with EQ1 (and indeed the core concepts of SWG are little different to 1997's UO). Yet still no one has melded the two, even after 13+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorion Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Simply wrong vision for the game. They wanted their MMO to be heavily story based. They achieved that goal, however Story is NOT replayable. All the replayable elements of this game (pvp, raiding, flashpoints, crafting, roleplaying, socialising, fluff hobbies etc) are all sub-par. So, people played the story, loved it, finished it, then got bored of the sub-par replayable bits and quit. At the end of the day, if you are going to build a themepark MMO then you need a dedicated development team with a very quick workflow who can pump out new content very quickly because themeparks are not replayable. If you don't have such a dev team (or corporate mentality) then you need themepark elements so that the community can amuse itself whilst waiting for new content. This is spot on imo. Story is sweet and all, but the issue is that its "too short" if you lvl a fresh toon of the bat it takes what 100-150 hrs of playtime on that toon. Add to the fact that the game at first is very good at makeing it feel like your story, you get hooked -> boom you spend what hm.. 4-8hrs pr day to lvl. 150hrs /4 = 37,5 days for 1 character. So part of its downfall in regards to keeping ppl ingame and intrested is its own sucess aka STORY. Sadly as you mentioned in your post they mimick that other game aka WoW alot in its way of being a themepark & not a sandbox(like swg was)(swg had its own flaws thats other story). Since there is 0 fun doing sandbox content as is today in this game, you do the themepark on a few toons, then alot of customers get bored, the non-class quests is way to boring some of them (or just to long chains - "the thing czerka found" is a good example of that) Hopefully f2p will bring in more customers(I know some quitters that will come back then 10+) Unlikely they will be doing much mt's, but they will provide content for ppl *que for pvp *que for pve *fleets will have more than 1 instance etc and hopefull it will feel more alive. Another failure is the meme that this game have gotten tagged to it "comeing soon". The concept of soon is individual, some think soon is the next day, some week, months etc etc. Just give us fixed dates or aproximate "mid oct 2012", then later come out and communicate that its going to be delayed by x-amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muesliac Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 if they copied wow style, we wouldn't have puzzle bosses, and we would have auto attack, we would have flying mounts and there would be no pvp battles when leveling, and we would have pokemon battles. not even mentioning all the hand holding addons (i rly don't understand why people want those in swtor) But... WoW has puzzle bosses (Ignis, Magmaw to name two)? Plus: What you're counting up as "TOR does different from WoW" are minor features. The main feel of TOR is very much WoW-ish. This becomes more apparent if you compare it to other MMORPGs (e.g. The Secret World). For example: - The zones are for levelling only. Once you're through with them, they might as well not exist. Also, and related: The 'quest string' leading you through every zone. Very similar to WoW. - The way level-ups are handled. From level 10 up you get a skill point every level which you can spend in one of three trees. Every next tier of the tree needs 5 points invested in the current one. - The design of gear. It's basically only there to provide you with stat points, same as in WoW. There are no 'incomparable' modifiers that would serve to keep gear useful: A level 30 robe for a Jedi Consular will ALWAYS be be better than a level 10 robe for the same class. - The combat in itself mirrors WoW's to a T. While that form of combat has been prevalent in MMORPGs for years, newer MMOs (Guild Wars 2, The Secret World) at least try to shake things up a bit. TOR is very WoW-like. Maybe even the MMORPG that mirrors it the most. In all honesty, it takes trying out other MMORPGs to really see and feel those similarities - trying to reduce them to a list is a behemothian undertaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TieJu Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 "What is holding back SWTOR the most?" Simple answer, the devs. They talk too much and say nothing. The talk too much and do nothing. So they should shut up and start to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplius Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 hover cars and airspeeders are not flying mounts? oh , ure right, they cant REALLY fly,,but wows flying mounts CAN another wasted opportunity, yes i know wow didnt get there right away but why didnt they copy that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turjake Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 using the same logical thought process as wow ... listening to the nerdy spreadsheet-warriors and ignore the fun and frivolity that most players want. Hardcore raiders tend to dominate who the devs listen to, that thought process killed any fun in wow (it becme a job, you know it did. When was the last time you laughed at something within the game itself eh. Remember a member of a 40man accidentally pulling a boss in MC and you all laughed your pants off .... since LK, did you laugh? or shout at them on vent for wasting rez-time hmmmmm) and it is begining to do it here too. Be entertaining BIO, not serious. The vast majority of gamers dont want to take the game like its life-or-death, our subs are just as important as some nerdy little spreadsheet warrior. In WoW that was because some of the the lead gameplay developers (Jeff Kaplan and Rob Pardo) were old hardcore EQ raiders. They certainly brought their old visions with them when designing early wow + expansions, like pure classes >> hybrids, raiders >>> casuals. And so on. Later they have ofcourse given up some of these or gone totally the other way. I have to admit they can certainly design raids that keep people busy for months. On the other hand early wow did not have much endgame for casuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrica Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 But... WoW has puzzle bosses (Ignis, Magmaw to name two)? I agree with you mate, just was playing devil's advocate hehehehee tho on the puzzles i don't agree, me and my guildies were ttalking about it yesterday when we were doing the new op, wow doen't have a boss like operator or the ev puzzle, or even the droid in KP. Im' not sure how you can see Ignis and Magmaw as a puzzle, it's not tank and spank mechanics, but they don't have actual puzzle elements to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigsta Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 1: Lack of lv50 content variety, with too much focus on earning credits. 2: Bugs. So many bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muesliac Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I agree with you mate, just was playing devil's advocate hehehehee tho on the puzzles i don't agree, me and my guildies were ttalking about it yesterday when we were doing the new op, wow doen't have a boss like operator or the ev puzzle, or even the droid in KP. Im' not sure how you can see Ignis and Magmaw as a puzzle, it's not tank and spank mechanics, but they don't have actual puzzle elements to them. Ignis' minions are invulnerable if you don't "puzzle-kill" them (kite them trough lava, then water ->boom). Magmaw has a unique mechanic that let's you 'circumvent' much of the fight: If you chain him down, he takes insane damage for a short time. Again, chaining a boss down is pretty much unique to Magmaw. But agreed, there are better examples for puzzle bosses in WoW: Take Karsh Steelbender, who is nigh invulnerable if you do not utilize a mechanic unique to the fight, and stack up those 'exposed to lava' debuffs on him. Or even Corla. If you don't take advantage of the beams and time them correctly, you can't win the fight. I'm going by tvtropes' definition of a puzzle boss here: Impossible (or VERY hard) to defeat if you don't use some feature of the 'arena' to your advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrica Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 tbh those are game mechanics, if you count those things as 'puzzles', then every boss is a puzzle boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muesliac Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 tbh those are game mechanics, if you count those things as 'puzzles', then every boss is a puzzle boss These are game mechanics unique to those fights. Which means they are not really game mechanics, but rather 'fight mechanics'. Which makes them pretty much puzzle mechanics in my book (and TvTropes' book). But of course, your opinion may differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 if they copied wow style, we wouldn't have puzzle bosses, and we would have auto attack, we would have flying mounts and there would be no pvp battles when leveling, and we would have pokemon battles. not even mentioning all the hand holding addons (i rly don't understand why people want those in swtor) Well I'm not saying it's totally the same, but the overall endgame the combat system is pretty much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts