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What is holding back SWTOR the most?


iheartnyc

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We can all pretty much identify the symptoms that are hurting this game. Slow development time compared to other MMOs, bugs, VERY slow to fix even minor bugs, slow to introduce new content compared to other MMOs, failure to optimize performance issues, etc. What are your thoughts on what's holding back SWTOR, and what are the biggest threats to this game?

 

1) Hero Engine - is this underlying platform so cumbersome that the pace of improvement of the game will never improve? Is it simply too expensive and take too much man-power to implement even the slightest content additions?

 

2) EA - according to several accounts, EA considers SWTOR a massive failure and has effectively put this game on the backburner and is silently letting the Bioware people in charge of SWTOR know that their future at the company is limited. Can they provide the resources (time, money, people) to turn this game around?

 

3) Wrong vision at Bioware - according to several accounts, Bioware envisioned this game to be more of a heavily-instanced, multiplayer RPG with MMO elements. Will this vision ever change?

 

At this point it seems apparent that we will not see any revolutionary changes to this game. The only changes that seem likely are additional content, bug fixes and slight optimizations. This would of course result in only reducing the rate at which current players leave, but will not result in a massive renewed interest in the game. What needs to change to turn this game around, and is it even possible?

Edited by iheartnyc
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The same thing happened to WoW back in the day, everything can be turned around, it is just difficult to compete with a game(WoW) that has been around for this many years which has a lot of content in it.

When SWTOR get more Flashpoints, raids and warzones, quest areas, and a proper achievment system, I think the game will start moving forward again.

However, if EA does not put money into getting stuff like this done, I think the game will go Titanic.

Edited by Kelleth
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Original idea. This game is, simply, an online washed out KoToR. Stripping the Star Wars theme you`re left with a sub-par MMO.

 

Because, at the end of the day, it doesn`t offer anything except roll alts and raiding.

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3) in the sense that they haven't developed areas of the game they should have (RvR, less linear character development, more realistic living worlds, more customisation, less WoW).

 

2) in so far as EA seems to be doing what it did with WAR, slash the development staff/budget then wonder why the game can't develop fast enough to sort itself out.

 

1) it certainly has issues (especially in RvR and things like world bosses), and doesn't seem like an idea MMO engine choice, but I think it's 3) and 2) that are directly causing more ills to the game atm.

Edited by Goretzu
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We can all pretty much identify the symptoms that are hurting this game. Slow development time compared to other MMOs, bugs, VERY slow to fix even minor bugs, slow to introduce new content compared to other MMOs, failure to optimize performance issues, etc. What are your thoughts on what's holding back SWTOR, and what are the biggest threats to this game?

 

1) Hero Engine - is this underlying platform so cumbersome that the pace of improvement of the game will never improve? Is it simply too expensive and take too much man-power to implement even the slightest content additions?

 

2) EA - according to several accounts, EA considers SWTOR a massive failure and has effectively put this game on the backburner and is silently letting the Bioware people in charge of SWTOR know that their future at the company is limited. Can they provide the resources (time, money, people) to turn this game around?

 

3) Wrong vision at Bioware - according to several accounts, Bioware envisioned this game to be more of a heavily-instanced, multiplayer RPG with MMO elements. Will this vision ever change?

 

At this point it seems apparent that we will not see any revolutionary changes to this game. The only changes that seem likely are additional content, bug fixes and slight optimizations. This would of course result in only reducing the rate at which current players leave, but will not result in a massive renewed interest in the game. What needs to change to turn this game around, and is it even possible?

 

We can ofcourse all identify the problem areas. Problem is that most people identifying the problems dont have any clue whatsoever what is actually a problem and what isnt.

 

1 - This old thing again. Whatever engine the game uses atm, is mostly Biowares doing, so are the problems and bug fixing. Sure it still needs optimizing and fixing but will you people stop whining about hero engine. What they are using is very far from Hero engine.

 

2 - I dont see EA considering SWTOR a massive failure as long as it brings more money than it spends. Currently they are even investing a bit more to implement F2P. They are very money oriented company so they would not do that if they did not believe in the game. Other than that, they can ofcourse ruin the game when they try to save a bit more...

 

3 - Not really wrong. Hindsight is usually easier than predicting future. On the other hand people still cannot agree what went wrong so changing the strong points of this game (story, instancing, story, space, story) would most likely kill the game totally.

Edited by turjake
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Simply wrong vision for the game.

 

They wanted their MMO to be heavily story based. They achieved that goal, however Story is NOT replayable. All the replayable elements of this game (pvp, raiding, flashpoints, crafting, roleplaying, socialising, fluff hobbies etc) are all sub-par. So, people played the story, loved it, finished it, then got bored of the sub-par replayable bits and quit.

 

 

At the end of the day, if you are going to build a themepark MMO then you need a dedicated development team with a very quick workflow who can pump out new content very quickly because themeparks are not replayable. If you don't have such a dev team (or corporate mentality) then you need themepark elements so that the community can amuse itself whilst waiting for new content.

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It's: Hey player, we are BioWare, we created one way to quest this planet. Don't leave this way or we will punish you.

 

yea way too much on rails,,too little content,,quirky combat system

 

they can turn it around by adding "quick and dirty " content,,ie terminal missions

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Simply wrong vision for the game.

 

They wanted their MMO to be heavily story based. They achieved that goal, however Story is NOT replayable. All the replayable elements of this game (pvp, raiding, flashpoints, crafting, roleplaying, socialising, fluff hobbies etc) are all sub-par. So, people played the story, loved it, finished it, then got bored of the sub-par replayable bits and quit.

 

 

At the end of the day, if you are going to build a themepark MMO then you need a dedicated development team with a very quick workflow who can pump out new content very quickly because themeparks are not replayable. If you don't have such a dev team (or corporate mentality) then you need themepark elements so that the community can amuse itself whilst waiting for new content.

 

i agree on most part , but themepark is the foundation of any big mmo

that is where u "hook" the player, and that is what wow did right, they had the biggest and fluffiest park

so when players got tired of endgame, they could roll an alt and really play a whole new world

any MMO dev have failed to realize that since then,,we all know the results

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What needs to change to turn this game around, and is it even possible?

 

They need to fix bugs, enhance testing, fix bugs, add alternative ways to level, fix bugs, add end-game content for casual players and then fix even more bugs.

 

Ofcourse, it all starts with confessing that there ARE alot bugs. So, don't make a post where you only mention 11 bugs when there is a compiled list of 47 bugs. That is exactly the type of attitude that will stop any progress on this game.

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i agree on most part , but themepark is the foundation of any big mmo

that is where u "hook" the player, and that is what wow did right, they had the biggest and fluffiest park

so when players got tired of endgame, they could roll an alt and really play a whole new world

any MMO dev have failed to realize that since then,,we all know the results

 

Themepark isn't the reason for modern MMO successes, its accessibility.

 

Older sandbox games were simply too complicated for the average gamer. Hell, my first month in SWG was a nightmare! Dumped on a planet with no weapons, no tutorial and no clue! Its was dire! Luckily, I had a friend to teach me and so I stuck with it, learned the game and it has been my favourite mmo to date.

 

Simply being a themepark is not enough to hook players. The best MMO (yet to be built) will have a combination of sandbox and themepark elements. Themepark elements are the best way to guide people through a game, for example classes, levels and linear questing. Sandbox elements are the best way to keep people playing long term, for example player cities, player made pvp wars, strong crafter-based economy, dynamic quests, random high level gear drops, dynamic / random open world raids etc.

 

 

A good example of this in the single-player world is the Elder Scrolls Series. These games include the best bits of themepark design (linear quest lines and dungeons) with the best bits of sandbox design (open world exploration, complete character freedom, strong crafting, choice of quests). As a consequence, the Eldar Scrolls are some of the most popular RPG games ever made.

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Themepark isn't the reason for modern MMO successes, its accessibility.

 

Older sandbox games were simply too complicated for the average gamer. Hell, my first month in SWG was a nightmare! Dumped on a planet with no weapons, no tutorial and no clue! Its was dire! Luckily, I had a friend to teach me and so I stuck with it, learned the game and it has been my favourite mmo to date.

 

Simply being a themepark is not enough to hook players. The best MMO (yet to be built) will have a combination of sandbox and themepark elements. Themepark elements are the best way to guide people through a game, for example classes, levels and linear questing. Sandbox elements are the best way to keep people playing long term, for example player cities, player made pvp wars, strong crafter-based economy, dynamic quests, random high level gear drops, dynamic / random open world raids etc.

 

 

A good example of this in the single-player world is the Elder Scrolls Series. These games include the best bits of themepark design (linear quest lines and dungeons) with the best bits of sandbox design (open world exploration, complete character freedom, strong crafting, choice of quests). As a consequence, the Eldar Scrolls are some of the most popular RPG games ever made.

 

I agree 100% with the bold text here, I to played SWG and was very confused when I first landed, the community that was there when I started pre cu, was so helpful someone showed me the ropes, this game does not confuse you which is great but some of the sandbox elements would keep people amused while new content was made.

 

I have to say though one of the biggest things I find is actually not to do with the game, when things go wrong the silence from Bioware employees is so frustrating. How many people left who had no actual complaints regarding the game but couldn't for example log in or play due to poor patches? More responses from customer services that are not cut and paste so you actually feel like someone has read your text would go a long way to alleviating the hate on these boards.

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The same thing happened to WoW back in the day, everything can be turned around, it is just difficult to compete with a game(WoW) that has been around for this many years which has a lot of content in it.

When SWTOR get more Flashpoints, raids and warzones, quest areas, and a proper achievment system, I think the game will start moving forward again.

However, if EA does not put money into getting stuff like this done, I think the game will go Titanic.

No MMOS are competing with WoW anymore, it's in its declining stage. I honestly could care less for the comparisons anymore, WoW had its time. It hit its peak a few years ago and now it's slowly dropping down.

 

What's holding it back is innovation and proper funding.

Edited by spectreclees
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The development time is holding TOR back a lot, this was mentioned pre-launch that the game seemed to be stuck in development with very little information or response from the devs. Even in interviews when asked directly how they spoke of keeping players interested the two options were roll alts or box the game and wait for an expansion.

 

Waiting for an expansion is fine but with the development time any new content that seems to be added is very minor and more about grinding out gear than anything else. As for rolling alts which were linked to the legacy it becomes apparant that 75% of the game is world quests and they get dull after a while. With only limited space and PvP warzones as alternate methods of advancement it not much of an option.

 

Hopefully the game will be saved but as it stands too little is being done and teaser trailers of HK and Cathar and new planets seem to speak of things that aren't even in production.

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It's greatest claim to fame: Voice acting. It was a good idea but it seems that nobody at Bioware thought about pumping out new content and what would be required with the voice actors. Either they'd have to get them to read new lines (and some of them are not just voice people in TOR but actual movie/tv stars so got to work around other schedules) or they will have to edit through cut and paste existing dialogue already in the game.

 

I guess my sith inquisitor can say "Yawn" a few more times. :rolleyes:

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What is holding back SWTOR the most?

 

The idea that a MMORPG, any MMORPG, must entertain and keep subscribers paying for several years or it is a massive failure.

 

This is the critical error that EA (and many other MMORPG publishers) as well as many MMORPG players make. In the pre-WoW days, there was very little competition so you tended to get hooked and stay in a game. When WoW came along it was the best of its class at the time. So it hooked people. And it created an explosion in MMORPGs. Many of those green-lighted in 2004-2005 came to fruition at a time when WoW had its playerbase locked into to their expansion strategy.

 

SWTOR is not a bad game. The elements that everyone whines about are elements people whine about in every single MMORPG. Guild Wars 2's forums are right now blown up with cries of lack of endgame, bad PvP, and the plethora of complaints that get lodged at all new MMORPGs.

 

Once you are resolved that these games don't need to become a long-term love affair, you'll be much happier.

Edited by Master-Nala
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The development time is holding TOR back a lot, this was mentioned pre-launch that the game seemed to be stuck in development with very little information or response from the devs. Even in interviews when asked directly how they spoke of keeping players interested the two options were roll alts or box the game and wait for an expansion.

 

Waiting for an expansion is fine but with the development time any new content that seems to be added is very minor and more about grinding out gear than anything else. As for rolling alts which were linked to the legacy it becomes apparant that 75% of the game is world quests and they get dull after a while. With only limited space and PvP warzones as alternate methods of advancement it not much of an option.

 

Hopefully the game will be saved but as it stands too little is being done and teaser trailers of HK and Cathar and new planets seem to speak of things that aren't even in production.

 

I'm afraid it's true. They put a patch and break a lot of things, now they will be need other 3 months to repair game like was before. There must be something very bad :confused:

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Personally, if given those three options, I'd say that it's the Hero engine who puts me off from playing TOR the most.

 

But not for the reasons listed by iheartnyc.

 

I have played an IA to 50, a Sage to 33 and quite a few low alts. Which means I spent some time in the game. And I still struggle with the game's camera. It just is too jerky and somehow is fastened at an odd point of my character.

It also annoys me that after almost a year, I still cannot for the life of me find that godbammed option that prohibits the camera from snapping back to the standard Over-The-Shoulder view the second I move.

Thirdly, as stated in another thread, the engine is simply not suited to all those jumpathons we players have to beat to get most Datacrons.

Fourthly, the engine has strange collision surfaces at times. I dimply dove it when I dry to jump... and something holds me, resulting in me botching the jump.

Fifthly (is this even a word?), the long loading times and segmentation of the world. Eugh! I don't think I need to elaborate that one.

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Themepark isn't the reason for modern MMO successes, its accessibility.

 

Older sandbox games were simply too complicated for the average gamer. Hell, my first month in SWG was a nightmare! Dumped on a planet with no weapons, no tutorial and no clue! Its was dire! Luckily, I had a friend to teach me and so I stuck with it, learned the game and it has been my favourite mmo to date.

 

Simply being a themepark is not enough to hook players. The best MMO (yet to be built) will have a combination of sandbox and themepark elements. Themepark elements are the best way to guide people through a game, for example classes, levels and linear questing. Sandbox elements are the best way to keep people playing long term, for example player cities, player made pvp wars, strong crafter-based economy, dynamic quests, random high level gear drops, dynamic / random open world raids etc.

 

 

A good example of this in the single-player world is the Elder Scrolls Series. These games include the best bits of themepark design (linear quest lines and dungeons) with the best bits of sandbox design (open world exploration, complete character freedom, strong crafting, choice of quests). As a consequence, the Eldar Scrolls are some of the most popular RPG games ever made.

 

again,,wow had those things,,from easy to hardcore gameplay,,tons of fun fluff and content

in fact it is exactly those things that would save this game,,adding more end game wont save it

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1. The Engine (technical shortcomings)

2. Missing free roam space

3. Missing mini games and Nar Shaddaa Casino

4. Missing racing/vehicle combat

5. Slow Speeders without a feeling of velocity

6. Not enough warzones

7. Missing day/night change on planets

8. Not enough NPCs to make the planets feel alive

Edited by Lord_Ravenhurst
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