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Developer Update: Shadow Optimizations in Game Update 1.4

EricMusco

By EricMusco
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Novaron

Novaron

Posted
Posted
Unfortunately, the performance gain for Nvidia SLI powered systems doesn't appear to hold true, at least on my computer. To the contrary, my dual GTX 580 3GB Nvidia SLI powered PC (which I think is rather high-end - see the bottom of this post for detailed system specs), I am experiencing a massive performance loss with the new shadows on Public Test 1.4 compared to 1.3 on live. Two areas are all of Alderaan where there is lots of grass as well as the Jedi Knight's Defender' starship's big room with the big holocom in it (just examples, most areas of the game are affected by this performance hit). Framerate is halved from live (from around ~50 down to ~20 FPS on Alderaan, from 110FPS down to 43 FPS on the defender). The game also runs a lot more choppy with framerate (noticeable microstutter, even with Vsync disabled) being far less inconsistent in 1.4. 1.4 with new shadows is nigh-unplayable on my machine with the same settings as 1.3 with the old shadows.

 

GPU usage for both GPUs in SLI is also way down in 1.4 from 1.3. Where in 1.3 both of my GPUs were used between 94% - 98%, which is proper SLI scaling, both GPUs are only utilized around 30% - 40% each in 1.4 on the Public test Server in the same, problematic areas. SLI scaling basically isn't working properly at all.

How are you rendering the new shadows? Using the CPU instead of the GPUs?

 

Both 1.3 and 1.4 run on the "Very High" Graphics Quality Preset, at 1920x1080@60Hz, Full Screen (Windowed), same with proper Full Screen mode. I'm using 4x Multisampling FSAA + 2x SGSAA Transparency Anti-Aliasing. I'm using Nvidia's latest WHQL GeForce driver, 306.23.

 

Which video cards did your testers test with and which driver versions did they use? Perhaps you have tested with unreleased beta drivers with a new Nvidia SLI Profile for TOR? Or much older drivers than the current ones?

Or maybe it's just an issue with the current build on the Public test server and has already been fixed on the build you have internally?

 

With that in mind, I think it would be a good idea to leave the old shadows in as an option. Perhaps you leave the old, blocky, more static shadows for the High Shadow setting and then use the new, dynamic shadows/Ambient Occlusion as new, Very High shadow setting.

 

If you can't keep the old, more performant shadows as an additional option, it may be a good idea to leave the new shadows out until you have implemented DirectX 11 support (for increased performance) and a native x64 client.

 

On a side note, the old bug from beta that cripples performance (FPS and GPU utilization) after leaving the Galaxy map (including entering space combat) on ships like the Jedi Knights's Defender on multi-GPU setups until one reloads the graphics is back in Game Update 1.4 as well.

 

Here are my system specs:

 

Cooler Master HAF X Case

Corsair Professional Series™ Gold AX1200 80 PLUS® Gold Certified Fully-Modular 1200 Watt Power Supply

Corsair Hydro Series H100 Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler with four Corsair Fans in Push/Pull configuration

Gigabyte Killer Gaming G1.Assassin2 Mainboard

Intel Core i7 3930K @ 4.5GHz

32GB DDR3-1600 Quad Channel RAM (4x8GB Corsair Vengeance CMZ32GX3M4A1600C9 Quad Channel Kit)

2x Gainward Phantom³ GeForce GTX 580 3GB SLi (GeForce 306.23 WHQL drivers)

LG E2750-PV 27" Full-HD LED Monitor @ 1920x1080 @ 60Hz

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi CA20k2 16MB X-RAM onboard

Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speakers

Bigfoot Networks Killer E2100 onboard Gaming NIC

1x 120GB OCZ Vertex 2 SATAII Solid State Disk

1x 512GB Crucial M4 SATAIII Solid State Disk

1x 2TB Seagate Barracuda XT 7200.12 SATAIII HDD

1x 2TB Western Digital Caviar Black SATAIII HDD

LG BH10LS SATA BlueRay Writer

Logitech G19 Gaming Keyboard

Logitech G700 Wireless Laser Gaming Mouse

Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 USB Joystick

Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 USB Joystick

4x Microsoft Xbox 360 Wireless Controller for Windows

2x Wii Remote Plus & Nunchuck

Logitech MOMO® Racing Force Feedback Wheel

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit (Service Pack 1, fully updated Windows Performance Index: 7.9)

 

I tried to post my Dxdiag.txt as well, but unfortunately, the post would exceed the maximum character limit for posts as I have so many devices installed, sorry.

 

GTX 580's in SLI, thats your problem. Spend the money and get a pair of 680's or a signature GTX 690 :)

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Nimithril

Nimithril

Posted
Posted
This might be a logic question beyond the developers, but I'll ask anyway...

 

 

 

WHAT? WHY? HOW?

 

Look up how astronomers measure the variable characteristics of binary stars, such as apparent magnitude and luminosity, and you will understand the logic of how something that is a source of light itself can actually cast shadows.

 

(Hint: Even though a star, like a fictional lightsaber, is not a solid object it nevertheless occupies space and thus casts a shadow when there is a source of light behind it. In other words, the shadow a light saber will cast in the game comes from any source of light around it.)

 

Maybe you should educate yourself a bit before disparaging the critical-thinking capabilities of the devs. Oh, wait....I have read some of your hyperbolic posts before. Nevermind.

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JonathanCP

JonathanCP

Posted
Posted
GTX 580's in SLI, thats your problem. Spend the money and get a pair of 680's or a signature GTX 690 :)

 

Lol. A single GTX 570 is way more than enough to play this game at high settings, with 60+ FPS.

 

See this thread about the SLI issue on the PTS, and test it yourself instead of bragging around

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=532684

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drhay

drhay

Posted
Posted (edited)
Look up how astronomers measure the variable characteristics of binary stars, such as apparent magnitude and luminosity, and you will understand the logic of how something that is a source of light itself can actually cast shadows.

 

(Hint: Even though a star, like a fictional lightsaber, is not a solid object it nevertheless occupies space and thus casts a shadow when there is a source of light behind it. In other words, the shadow a light saber will cast in the game comes from any source of light around it.)

 

Maybe you should educate yourself a bit before disparaging the critical-thinking capabilities of the devs. Oh, wait....I have read some of your hyperbolic posts before. Nevermind.

 

NM, I get what you're trying to say.

Edited by drhay
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Rogoo

Rogoo

Posted
Posted (edited)

Shadows optimizations are great an all. But what about the abysmall performance on fleet (and other crowded areas) ? Still getting 15 frames per second on lowest possible settings with Phenom II X6 @ 4Ghz, 2 x 6870 Crossfire, 16 GB of RAM.

 

Shoddy programming much ?

Edited by Rogoo
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SimplyCooL

SimplyCooL

Posted
Posted
Hey guys! Here is demonstration of shadow changes on 1.4. Enjoy =)

youtube.com/watch?v=IY89NytXZ38

 

Not impressed. Id be really ticked off, if Crysis or Assassins creed had blocky shadows.., but here we have a comic-y, concept art looking game. So honestly who cares. If shadows are stopping your immersion, how about the toony art style.

 

All these means to me is more technical problems, choppier gameplay.

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Glzmo

Glzmo

Posted
Posted (edited)
GTX 580's in SLI, thats your problem. Spend the money and get a pair of 680's or a signature GTX 690 :)
Don't be ridiculous. 1.4 runs fine with SLi disabled. Enable SLi and performance goes into the gutter in 1.4 on the Public test server. Not so in 1.3. There is definitely a bug there.

 

Have you actually tested Game Update 1.4 with the new dynamic shadows on Public test with two GTX 680s in SLi? If so, didn't you notice any performance drops compared to live?

Edited by Glzmo
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Devlonir

Devlonir

Posted
Posted
Who cares...

 

How is this worthy of front-page news? lol...

 

How about fixing your game engine instead, then move onto the petty little improvements.

 

Yeah.. shadow handling is not part of the engine at all. Nope, shadows in game are in no way engine related *piccard facepalms*

 

Also, what parts of the engine need real fixing? I mean, besides the big ones already mentioned that take more time than a year to do (like upgrade to DX11 and better usage of multi-core processing). Really, give good examples of what specifically you will fix about the engine, then we can have a good discussion about it.

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FiveBBassist

FiveBBassist

Posted
Posted

To the staff:

Nice work; I have a weak Grafic Card, so I run the game without shadows and on the lowest graphic settings possible. Those look pretty good, not that I ever noticed them needing fixed.

 

To the players:

Most of the comments I read could be summorized, "it's about time." Come on, it's just shadows. Be greatful such a small thing is fixed and enjoy the game rather than complaining how long it took.

 

Side note:

Do LIGHT sabers cast shadows?

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billyconnite

billyconnite

Posted
Posted (edited)
Maybe you missed the part about optimizations. Try reading.

Umm... Shadow optimizations? Lol... You're funny :) - Sorry, try doing some testing and research - Any decent rig can far outperform this game engines limitations, unfortunately no amount of hardware can actually substitute for a broken engine. Shadow optimization, great... Not my issue at all, everything on high, everything on low, you will receive the exact same bottlenecks in warzones, some operations, and high population areas due to this games pathetic engine. This is with any PC. Let's not debate this here.

 

Read my thread here, and find countless others, then we'll talk: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=507316

Edited by billyconnite
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Nikei

Nikei

Posted
Posted

It is a step forward. It is not a step forward that is going to make me re-subscribe in and of itself, but it is a weight in the positive side of the balance pans as I decide what to do at the end of my next 3-month billing cycle. I look forward to seeing it and hope that it represents an affordable gain in realism on my rig when overall FPS is concerned.

 

Marry these changes to more things to do in game (especially for non-raiders), a more modern suite of cosmetic features, and some general improvements in load speed and high traffic handling and maybe I'll hand over the next ~$45.

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Blightspawn

Blightspawn

Posted
Posted
Umm... Shadow optimizations? Lol... You're funny :) - Sorry, try doing some testing and research - Any decent rig can far outperform this game engines limitations, unfortunately no amount of hardware can actually substitute for a broken engine. Shadow optimization, great... Not my issue at all, everything on high, everything on low, you will receive the exact same bottlenecks in warzones, some operations, and high population areas due to this games pathetic engine. This is with any PC. Let's not debate this here.

 

Read my thread here, and find countless others, then we'll talk: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=507316

 

I'm running SWTOR on a bootcamped Mac and the game doesn't have any bottleneck issues. If that doesn't bother it, then I'm sure there's a way to have PCs work the same way.

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