The Dwindling Dev Tracker

[Lateris]

@ Bioware- take lessons from CCP.

[TUXs]

True statement for the most part.

 

Now, please read my signature, because in the MMO world, expectations are closely coupled with feelings of entitlement.

 

What bull **edit** Andryah. I expect communication from Bioware to build the sense of excitement and a feeling of hope in this community, I don't feel entitled to anything.

[vandana_]

I expect communication from Bioware to build the sense of excitement and a feeling of hope in this community, I don't feel entitled to anything.

I don't understand.

 

Everything is SO "exciting" and that word is so used by the devs and CS alike. Feedback they get is exciting. Content rolling month after month after month is exciting. Content rolling every 6 weeks is exciting. Free to play is exciting.

 

Why the hell aren't you excited?!!!

Edited August 30, 2012 by vandana_

[iamthehoyden]

I like data, but you are measuring daily activity over a period of two weeks. Measure monthly activity since the launch of the game, and I think you will come to much different conclusions.

The main reason I was looking at that period initially is because that's as far back as the Dev Tracker went at that point. It's been made pretty clear that it's buggy. I'm actually in the process of looking at the dev tracker back into June (which is as far back as it currently goes) and the weekly dev tracker summaries. I'm curious about 2 parts: interaction levels (which I'm measuring by post numbers) and developer information (which is going to take a bit longer to sift through). I will say, the interaction levels haven't changed significantly as far as I can see. The period right before Aug 8 was slow, but if you go back much farther it's about what we have now. Whether the developer information is different I have yet to figure out.

[vandana_]

I believe that Joveth, Allison, Amber, Courtney et al are all working very hard, I think alot of people here think all they do is sit here and read the forums all day and I think they are doing the best they can. I agree that ALL information should be on SWTOR's forums in addition to social media and not fragemented across both (I believe the CS team are doing this in most cases)

 

I think after the initial drop in subscriber numbers EA essentially did a wide ranging review of the game. They decided to drastically cut the size of the development team (I'd guess at a 50% cut) and have taken a much more active role in how the game is managed. I believe that the CS team COULD answer many of our questions in detial but are not allowed to by EA, I also believe that we would not like the answers they would give us.

 

If EA are taking the approach I think they are taking then they want the development team to focus on small scale regular updates (Flashpoints, Operations and Warzones) as announced and not on large scale projects such as Space, SGRA and Open PvP. Until we see more information on how the F2P model is going to work long term (beyond 2012) and how sucessful the F2P model change is then these large scale projects may well be shelved, reduced in scope or hopefully perhaps developed as intended.

 

In summary, EA has control, Bioware is doing what they are told, the CS team are working hard but are not allowed to be very open with the community. Communication could be better but not with EA standing over thier shoulder.

 

This is the best analysis of SWTOR state of development and community service that i have read. Thanks.

 

Also when you see responses like the one Javeth Gonzales gave us in this very thread you can see there is no hope. They will deny and spin reality to the bitter end.

Edited August 30, 2012 by vandana_

[HoldenThunk]

Actually, one thing I'd really like to see is something of a manually updated, officially managed "Hot Topics" sticky. Have it as a secondary pseudo-dev tracker, with quoted dev responses to various issues.

 

Leave out the various "This is great feedback, we're watching closely!" and such, but include items that get frequently asked and organize them by topic. So, for example:

 

• Will more character slots be made available?(Updated: Aug 22)
  

  We don't have any new information yet, but we are still planning on offering more character slots per server in the future. We know this is important to many of our players who have lots of alts (and want more!), and we'll let you know when more info is ready!

  
  

  We do have plans to make more character slots available per server and will bring you more info as soon as we can.

  
  

• What's going on with HK-51? (Updated: Aug 21)
  

  We are excited to unveil the dangerous assassination droid HK-51! Cold, calculating, and ruthlessly efficient, HK-51 will stand by your side and loyally follow your command as you and your allies continue your journey. Journalists were given a brief preview of HK-51 at E3, but now we are happy to be able to show everyone at San Diego Comic-Con, and all of you at home, the full trailer.

  
  

   

  
  

  Watch Now

  
  

  We haven't announced any specific requirements yet, but

  this Q&A

  does have the most recent official info:

  
  

  GarrickBlackSun: I understand he is a long way off, but could you please possibly give us any sort of clearer or better insight to the unlocking of HK-51?

  
  

   

  
  

  Daniel Erickson (Lead Game Designer): The only thing we’re saying today is its going to take a serious amount of work, involves a galaxy-wide mission, introduces some different ways of playing the game and most people will need to have a 50 of one faction and at least a mid-level character from the other faction. Get working on those Legacy characters!

   
  
  

  
  

  HK-51 has definitely not been scrapped (I don't think he'd let us!).

  
  

 

Why? Simply put, the dev tracker is only useful for keeping up with things for a few days at best. (Right now it's returning Page 1 of 0 for me, so most people wouldn't see dev posts from before August 27.) It's disorganized since it grabs every post and sorts them descending by date. If I want to find something a dev posted about something, I need to go through pages of dev comments looking for relevant information; if the tracker is being particularly goofy, I have to manually change the URL to advance pages as well.

 

A dev maintained sticky of responses gives us a single page to refer back to (and to refer others to) instead of having to look for a trail of breadcrumbs scattered across the forums.

Edited August 30, 2012 by HoldenThunk
Tweaking layout

[Hessen]

I approve of the above ^

 

As well as it showing that Bioware understand what the hot topics actually are, it would also help identify which topics we've had no response at all about.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Hessen

[Kubernetic]

I have already stated that I agree my expectations are unrealistic after having them pointed out to me as such. I am no longer going to have any questions for the Community Team, Developers or Bioware in general. I am sorry that my previous unrealistic expectations have caused so much distress. If you so wish, I shall edit my posts so as to remove the content.

 

So, because BioWare won't do what no other MMORPG company is doing, you're going to compeltely shut down and stop asking any questions at all.

 

No one ever said you just need to "shut up and take it". And what I said, and to put it another way, is that you should recognize where your expectations are extreme, and alter your tactics so that you can have a goal in your communicatins that is actually able to be accomplished within the obvious rules framework that the developers are working under.

 

It should be readily apparent by now that they are not permitted to give out exact dates or timeframes on when you should expect a particular addition to the game until it is nearly ready to launch, and almost all interceding concerns have been eliminated and ruled out.

 

So why not ask other questions and modify your requests so that they can be answered by the developers?

 

As I said to another poster, instead of asking "Can you give us an exact date on when XYZ will be added to the game?", ask something more open-ended, like "Can you at least confirm that XYZ is still under consideration or actual development?"

 

The second question can actually BE answered by the development team.

The first question obviously cannot.

 

Again, no one said "just shut up and go away", and if they did, they were wrong. But why not bring your expectations in line with what is actually POSSIBLE for an MMORPG company and its employees to work with? Why is that such a devastating blow to your interests? I don't understand that sentiment.

[Kubernetic]

I believe that Joveth, Allison, Amber, Courtney et al are all working very hard, I think alot of people here think all they do is sit here and read the forums all day and I think they are doing the best they can. I agree that ALL information should be on SWTOR's forums in addition to social media and not fragemented across both (I believe the CS team are doing this in most cases)

 

I think after the initial drop in subscriber numbers EA essentially did a wide ranging review of the game. They decided to drastically cut the size of the development team (I'd guess at a 50% cut) and have taken a much more active role in how the game is managed. I believe that the CS team COULD answer many of our questions in detial but are not allowed to by EA, I also believe that we would not like the answers they would give us.

 

If EA are taking the approach I think they are taking then they want the development team to focus on small scale regular updates (Flashpoints, Operations and Warzones) as announced and not on large scale projects such as Space, SGRA and Open PvP. Until we see more information on how the F2P model is going to work long term (beyond 2012) and how sucessful the F2P model change is then these large scale projects may well be shelved, reduced in scope or hopefully perhaps developed as intended.

 

In summary, EA has control, Bioware is doing what they are told, the CS team are working hard but are not allowed to be very open with the community. Communication could be better but not with EA standing over thier shoulder.

 

Pretty much in agreement with your comments here, except for the part I emphasized.

 

We've had confirmation just within the past few weeks that the Space Project is still in development, even after the changes EA made and the reveal of the coming F2P Hybrid model. In addition, we have confirmation that they are still in the process of retooling open world PVP.

[Tatile]

So why not ask other questions and modify your requests so that they can be answered by the developers?

 

As I said to another poster, instead of asking "Can you give us an exact date on when XYZ will be added to the game?", ask something more open-ended, like "Can you at least confirm that XYZ is still under consideration or actual development?"

 

The second question can actually BE answered by the development team.

The first question obviously cannot.

 

My questions would only be echoes of those already asked. As you yourself said, the question need only be asked once.

 

 

Again, no one said "just shut up and go away", and if they did, they were wrong. But why not bring your expectations in line with what is actually POSSIBLE for an MMORPG company and its employees to work with? Why is that such a devastating blow to your interests? I don't understand that sentiment.

 

I was hoping that in future we might be able to understand why certain class changes were made, why certain parts of content had been pushed back in the release schedule, and that this information be included at or around the same time as patch notes. You said that this was unrealistic. I have not played many MMOs or single player games so I was unaware that this was a novel idea. As it is not possible to get an idea of the release schedule ahead of time and what new content will bring, I will have to play the game I enjoy (SW:ToR, if you are interested) until such time as I lose interest or they bring a halt to content I enjoy (end game PvE, questing and class story-lines, if you are interested).

 

As you have probably gathered, I am very bad at expressing myself without using emotive language, but I am trying my best.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Tatile

[al-mar]

We've had confirmation just within the past few weeks that the Space Project is still in development, even after the changes EA made and the reveal of the coming F2P Hybrid model. In addition, we have confirmation that they are still in the process of retooling open world PVP.

 

where can i find those information?

i try to read a lot in these forums but i didn't not read any of your points.

thanks

[VarKoE]

I was hoping that in future we might be able to understand why certain class changes were made, why certain parts of content had been pushed back in the release schedule, and that this information be included at or around the same time as patch notes. You said that this was unrealistic. I have not played many MMOs or single player games so I was unaware that this was a novel idea. As it is not possible to get an idea of the release schedule ahead of time and what new content will bring, I will have to play the game I enjoy (SW:ToR, if you are interested) until such time as I lose interest or they bring a halt to content I enjoy (end game PvE, questing and class story-lines, if you are interested).

 

As you have probably gathered, I am very bad at expressing myself without using emotive language, but I am trying my best.

 

I have played mmo's since ultima online. Sometimes you will get that level of discussion. But it really depends on the company and the developers. As you read the forums you see a broad section of responses. From rude and childish to reasoned and well thought out. It the same with developer staff. Some can express the concepts well some cannot.

 

If the company has a lot of contractors then it is unlikely they will be available to be the "voice" of a game. If you dedicate team leads it takes away from other duties. So you will not usually get that kind of access. This is particularily true for folks that are working 80 to 100 hours a week. Which is not uncommon in this industry.

 

With that said tho it would a plus to have that level of discussion. It is usually confrontational but can result in understanding. I would caution against letting forum topics impact your opinion of the game. Forums tend to reflect an overstated and hyperbolic review of reality. Its the nature of the beast and why the majority of current or former players stay away. Think of it as reality tv. Kinda true but mostly just a diversion and interesting due to the train wreck factor.

 

Whens are rare, but from a game mechanic guy i am with you on wishing we could see more why's.

[ML_DoubleTap]

...

 

Stay tuned for the new blogs, which we'll be debuting starting tomorrow.

 

As always, thanks for taking an interest in this. Constructive feedback is always welcome and we'll definitely adjust our strategies when there is a need . [/color]

 

Is this still coming? Interested to see what it is.

[iamthehoyden]

Stay tuned for the new blogs, which we'll be debuting starting tomorrow.

 

As always, thanks for taking an interest in this. Constructive feedback is always welcome and we'll definitely adjust our strategies when there is a need .

Looking forward to seeing what you have in store today.

[ElitehunterDS]

Is this still coming? Interested to see what it is.

 

Probably not, wouldnt be the first time.

Edited August 30, 2012 by ElitehunterDS

[iamthehoyden]

Probably not, wouldnt be the first time.

I hope you're wrong, I really do, but seeing as how it's 4:30 here in Austin... I guess we will wait and see. It would be a real shame if they couldn't manage follow-through on something they said just yesterday.

[Urael]

I hope you're wrong, I really do, but seeing as how it's 4:30 here in Austin... I guess we will wait and see. It would be a real shame if they couldn't manage follow-through on something they said just yesterday.

 

^This!!!!!

[alifaraaz]

Yeah... would like to see them Sure it wont affect my day at all if the blog is released tomorrow instead, but yknow...you did kinda say it =/ Dont wanna be that guy shouting "omg BW promised a date and didnt deliver" but yeaaaah...you said it yesterday not last week or month ^^

[Tatile]

I hope you're wrong, I really do, but seeing as how it's 4:30 here in Austin... I guess we will wait and see. It would be a real shame if they couldn't manage follow-through on something they said just yesterday.

 

Perhaps Mr. Gonzalez intended to say Friday, instead of "tomorrow"? Launches tend to happen on the Friday, so that people can enjoy it on the weekend. Except, the Bioware team don't work on the weekends. Perhaps Mr. Gonzalez meant Monday?

 

Hopefully this won't turn into "jam every other day", but Mr. Gonzalez did not give us a date, after all.

[iamthehoyden]

Perhaps Mr. Gonzalez intended to say Friday, instead of "tomorrow"? Launches tend to happen on the Friday, so that people can enjoy it on the weekend. Except, the Bioware team don't work on the weekends. Perhaps Mr. Gonzalez meant Monday?

 

Hopefully this won't turn into "jam every other day", but Mr. Gonzalez did not give us a date, after all.

I have tears, Tatile, tears. Oh too funny, hehehe. I needed that.

[Tatile]

I have tears, Tatile, tears. Oh too funny, hehehe. I needed that.

 

I've had days where I could have sworn it was Wednesday, but it was actually Monday, so I know how it feels. I always check the day before doing anything important like this, though.

 

Edit: This thing. Is this the thing? I feel this is the thing. It looks to be a good thing.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Tatile

[iamthehoyden]

I've had days where I could have sworn it was Wednesday, but it was actually Monday, so I know how it feels. I always check the day before doing anything important like this, though.

 

Edit: This thing. Is this the thing? I feel this is the thing. It looks to be a good thing.

 

Ooooo shiny. <settles in to read>

[Tatile]

Maybe you should add the new blog to the Developer Tracker stats? We could go for an overall tracker of visible communication (I don't count PM's as the receiver has to choose to make those public).

[iamthehoyden]

Maybe you should add the new blog to the Developer Tracker stats? We could go for an overall tracker of visible communication (I don't count PM's as the receiver has to choose to make those public).

I've been trying to work out how to do it. The Weekly Dev Tracker Summary has information like that, but it has been revamped in style a few times so it's hard to get any consistent numbers of out it. Plus there are gaps where it wasn't posted for awhile, especially in July.

 

One of the things I realized when reading through the Community Team's posts on this thread is that there is a disconnect between interaction and developer information. I was under the impression that they were going to interact more in the "new era," but from what I'm seeing that really isn't the case. I think, although I don't have any hard and fast numbers, that they are prying slightly more information out of dev hands than in the past few months (although if you go back and look at the Weekly Dev Tracker Summaries from first quarter this year it would almost make you cry).

 

If I figure out a good way to compile these stats I'll post them.

 

On the bright side, a developer letter like the one we got today would be very welcome on a weekly basis. If it details new information on a variety of projects (and the ongoing questions that never get answered) that would be good.

[Tatile]

I asked Ms. Wood if there is an available schedule for the Developer's blog, so we will have to wait on her reply (I asked in the discussion thread for the blog, so I would not be surprised if it gets missed).

 

It would be nice if we could discuss with the Community Team the difference between interaction and news tid-bits, but as Kubernetic pointed out, that's unfortunately impossible.