Battlemaster to Augmented Warhero!

[Jalal]

I am full Battlemaster just did two warzones where most everyone on the enemy team had 4k to 8k more health than me. Obviously mostly all augmented Warhero.

 

I don't mind a challenge but seriously the gap is to great and the pvp is not fun. 10-49 is alot of fun. This mess has to change.

 

Honestly do most people feel that this is good game design?

[UGLYMRJ]

Personally.... yes.

[Helistin]

Battlemaster gear can be augmented also.

[oredith]

the solution is to augment your BM - i did. the difference is stat optimization. BM has a lot of crappy stats like accuracy, which you can't get rid of until WH.

 

but the difference in HP (and expertise) is not that big between BM and WH.

 

i've killed plenty of badly played WH (people with "warlord" over their heads) when I was just wearing BM gear - 1 v 1.

[agape_]

It's like 9 months after launch the people who get left behind do not have the sympathy of those who pushed ahead front eh beginning. That is all. For all the whiners and complainers out there everyone had to grind their gear to the top and asking for a shortcut makes me think of you as entitled brats.

[oredith]

It's like 9 months after launch the people who get left behind do not have the sympathy of those who pushed ahead front eh beginning. That is all. For all the whiners and complainers out there everyone had to grind their gear to the top and asking for a shortcut makes me think of you as entitled brats.

with the current changes, it doesn't even take that long.

 

2 week of very casual pugging wz to go from zero-gear to full BM (also hit valor 50)

1 additional week of very casual pugging wz to get 1-2 WH piece, depending on what you buy (hit valor 60)

 

i'm in my 4th week of casually pvp'ing, and have 4 WH pieces (including the chest, an expensive piece).

 

i just don't understand this gripe at all. BW has made the "ticket of admission" about as simple as possible.

[agape_]

Exactly do any of you even remember champion and battle master bags? The way to get geared has already bee. Simplified.

[Scoloplastic]

It's like 9 months after launch the people who get left behind do not have the sympathy of those who pushed ahead front eh beginning. That is all. For all the whiners and complainers out there everyone had to grind their gear to the top and asking for a shortcut makes me think of you as entitled brats.

 

When more players like him - new (a rare thing) players, jump into WZs to get rolled and learn they have months of grinding losing WZs to catch up -all stop playing - And you are left with a free 2 play ghost town, I wonder if you'll still think the same.

 

Edit: Not to say I'm opposed to gear grind, but it's time for a new season, a new pvp gear tier, and making the current War Hero items available with normal comms.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Scoloplastic

[oredith]

When more players like him - new (a rare thing) players, jump into WZs to get rolled and learn they have months of grinding losing WZs to catch up -all stop playing - And you are left with a free 2 play ghost town, I wonder if you'll still think the same.

they give new players a full set of recruit gear already, which gets them to ~75% of a fully augmented WH set.

 

sure, they're not anywhere near equal footing against WH, but that's part of learning to pvp. if you keep choosing to pick on the biggest, toughest opponent, and you insist on running into the midst of things, you'll continue to die horribly.

 

recruit gear teaches you to work on your own survival, which is a very valuable pvp skill no matter what gear level you're at.

 

to complain about dying in recruit gear, simply means that you really haven't gotten the grasp of the whole pvp thing, and no amount of gear is going to help with that.

[Lymain]

Battlemaster gear can be augmented also.

 

Yeah, you basically have to augment your BM gear if you want to be competitive.

 

I don't think it's good design, but it's hard to do better when you're bolting PvP into a PvE progression system.

[Scoloplastic]

they give new players a full set of recruit gear already, which gets them to ~75% of a fully augmented WH set.

 

sure, they're not anywhere near equal footing against WH, but that's part of learning to pvp. if you keep choosing to pick on the biggest, toughest opponent, and you insist on running into the midst of things, you'll continue to die horribly.

 

recruit gear teaches you to work on your own survival, which is a very valuable pvp skill no matter what gear level you're at.

 

to complain about dying in recruit gear, simply means that you really haven't gotten the grasp of the whole pvp thing, and no amount of gear is going to help with that.

 

Well, gear grinds exist in MMOs for a reason, and that's not going to change obviously.

But, I don't think getting the gear is the same experience for people who just dinged to 50 now, as opposed to people who hit 50 when 1.2 came out and no one had WH gear at all.

 

The now very large headstart veteran players have, creates a very unsatisfying experience for new players - the problem is not the time it takes to grind the gear, but the fact that as a fresh 50 you get your butt whooped by most players now for a very very long period of time until you gear up to WH. At this point the gap is too big IMO - that's what new tiers of gear are for - so all the ppl with full WH can have a headstart with grinding the new tier, and the newbies can get to full WH relatively faster.

[Jenzali]

When I first started PvPing I spent about 100k to buy level 48 augments for all slots of my BM gear (yes, you can augment the earpiece, implants, relics, weapons, belt, and bracers too). Made an incredibly large difference.

 

If the cost isn't too bad on your server's GTN or you are able to make level 48 augments yourself I'd suggest doing the same. Augmented BM can pretty much go toe to toe with augmented War Hero geared players.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Jenzali

[UGLYMRJ]

Yeah, you basically have to augment your BM gear if you want to be competitive.

 

I don't think it's good design, but it's hard to do better when you're bolting PvP into a PvE progression system.

 

Or better yet, use the customization options as the developers intended. Don't augment your BM gear. Augment custom gear and move mods into that as you progress in gear levels.

 

Obviously won't work for recruit gear but you should have to suffer through a few pieces of recruit for no more than a week. If you are wearing recruit for more than a week then one of two things is happening.

 

1. You have a real life and don't play enough video games.

2. You're really bad at this game and may need to stick with MW3.

Edited July 30, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Jenzali]

Or better yet, use the customization options as the developers intended. Don't augment your BM gear. Augment custom gear and move mods into that as you progress in gear levels.

 

This is fine, but keep in mind you lose the BM set bonus if you place the BM mods into an orange shell.

[Astarica]

People pretend credit grows on trees but the truth is that credit just isn't that easy to come by especially for a heavy PvPer since PvP gives very ltitle credit but you need a lot of credit to augment and make/buy/pull out augments.

 

It's easy to look at BM/WH and say there's at most a 5% (if even that) difference if both are augmented. In reality whoever has WH is going to augment it (because there's nothing better) but whoever has BM will think twice about doing that because most PvP players are relatively poor, so you end up with a 10% or more gap between these two gear sets. And this issue isn't going away as long as PvP gives you practically no credit compared to PvE activities and yet augmenting and pulling out mods costs a lot of credit.

 

There should be some relatively cheap PvP augments/slotters that only works on PvP armor for WZ commendations. Or say make the APvP weekly award a mark 6 augmenter + one purple augment of your choice (both BOP).

[UGLYMRJ]

This is fine, but keep in mind you lose the BM set bonus if you place the BM mods into an orange shell.

 

Good point... I forgot about that since looking cool is more important to me than set bonuses pre-WH. Thanks for pointing that out tho.

[oredith]

Well, gear grinds exist in MMOs for a reason, and that's not going to change obviously.

But, I don't think getting the gear is the same experience for people who just dinged to 50 now, as opposed to people who hit 50 when 1.2 came out and no one had WH gear at all.

 

The now very large headstart veteran players have, creates a very unsatisfying experience for new players - the problem is not the time it takes to grind the gear, but the fact that as a fresh 50 you get your butt whooped by most players now for a very very long period of time until you gear up to WH. At this point the gap is too big IMO - that's what new tiers of gear are for - so all the ppl with full WH can have a headstart with grinding the new tier, and the newbies can get to full WH relatively faster.

the "gap is too big" only if you have a victim mentality.

 

i started out 4 weeks ago with not a single piece of pvp gear.

 

i bought a full set of recruit PT tanking gear, and after trying it out a few times with some "real life" comparison, determined that the PT tanking recruit set is much worse than my pve campaign/blackhole set, so i wore my pve set for the 4 days it took me, to get the 4 pcs of the cheapest eliminator set, and then filled the rest with recruit gear.

 

i had to learn that with low survival, even though a PT is suppose to be melee, i had to pick and choose when i could go in, most times, i'd have to wait for the first clash to happen, so that people don't notice me getting into the midst of the fight, or i would hang back and nuke the guy that is beating on our healer (which has the added benefit of the gratitude of the healer, usually, which results in them healing me, which leads to more killing).

 

the GEAR gap isn't too big, and it certainly doesn't take long to bridge - the SKILL gap, however, seems to simply be insurmountable for a lot of people.

[UGLYMRJ]

the "gap is too big" only if you have a victim mentality.

 

i started out 4 weeks ago with not a single piece of pvp gear.

 

i bought a full set of recruit PT tanking gear, and after trying it out a few times with some "real life" comparison, determined that the PT tanking recruit set is much worse than my pve campaign/blackhole set, so i wore my pve set for the 4 days it took me, to get the 4 pcs of the cheapest eliminator set, and then filled the rest with recruit gear.

 

i had to learn that with low survival, even though a PT is suppose to be melee, i had to pick and choose when i could go in, most times, i'd have to wait for the first clash to happen, so that people don't notice me getting into the midst of the fight, or i would hang back and nuke the guy that is beating on our healer (which has the added benefit of the gratitude of the healer, usually, which results in them healing me, which leads to more killing).

 

the GEAR gap isn't too big, and it certainly doesn't take long to bridge - the SKILL gap, however, seems to simply be insurmountable for a lot of people.

 

Pretty much this.... but I normally prefer a shorter more sarcastic approach.

 

Of course against a well geared and well organized pre-made you're gonna feel the pain. But most players in most war zones are bad. Really bad. I've been able to put up top tier numbers even though I averaged mid-tier with recruit and with BM gear was nearly always on top of the charts before I augmented it. I wouldn't run into any ranked WZ's with your BM gear on but all around it's skill > gear between the two being compared here.

[Morrolan]

sure, they're not anywhere near equal footing against WH, but that's part of learning to pvp. if you keep choosing to pick on the biggest, toughest opponent, and you insist on running into the midst of things, you'll continue to die horribly.

What were we doing in 1-49 pvp if not 'learning how to pvp'?

 

As for BM vs WH, all other things being equal it does make a difference (as someone with a third WH rest BM all aug) especially if you want to step up into rated, and this is exacerbated by the long grind to get WH.

[Daiyukie]

Battlemaster gear can be augmented also.

 

/thread

[oredith]

What were we doing in 1-49 pvp if not 'learning how to pvp'?

 

As for BM vs WH, all other things being equal it does make a difference (as someone with a third WH rest BM all aug) especially if you want to step up into rated, and this is exacerbated by the long grind to get WH.

what are we doing in 1-49 FP if not 'learning how to pve'?

 

as for Rakata vs. Campaign, all other things being equal it does make a difference (as someone with a third Campaign rest Rakata all aug) espeiclaly if you want to step up into hardmode, and this is exacerbated by the long grind to get Campaign.

 

see wut i did thar?

 

pvp gear is infinitely easier to get than pve gear, yet you are choosing to cry over it, so, in response to your "what were we doing in 1-49"? question, my response to you would be:

 

clearly not learning how to play.

[Ashania]

I've begun playing my sage again which I hadn't played since pre-1.2 so it still had full Champion gear. I picked up the recruit set, mixing and matching between Force-master/mystic to improve my stats as much as possible whilst using 2 pieces of my champion gear for the set bonus.

 

In this gear I was still doing respectable damage (I always play a healer, but I thought at this gear-level it wasn't wise...) and was able to kill and survive against people with 19k+ hp. Of course I died a few times but only a little more than usual than my full WH Scoundrel, and much less than I expected.

 

2 days later my Sage is now in full Battlemaster and I can hold my own perfectly well.

 

Buy medpacks, use warzone adrenals as much as possible, use an exotech endurance stim and you can even augment your BM pieces (though I find this to be a waste)

[Jalal]

Well it is most definitely a gear issue to imply otherwise is dishonest in my opinion.

 

I do have full BM so I have played some just not any lately. Before WH became readily available I had no problems at all. Recruit to BM wasn't great but it wasn't as bad as BM to Augmented WH. I just pvp really, not into pve so credits are a concern.

 

It's just a shame because I was having fun and I'm just not sure it's worth the effort, which is more of a concern for the game in general than for whether I continue to play or not, because I would if it wasnt such a painful grind.

 

I know maybe it's not the game for me. I don't mind gear progression just think its a little out of hand here, and you gotta augment now which requires money which I dont have so...

[swilksy]

pvp gear is infinitely easier to get than pve gear, yet you are choosing to cry over it,

clearly not learning how to play.

 

You are insane, pve gear takes no effort whatsoever to get BiS, WH takes forever comparitively, grind the same BGs for a few months why you get owned in recruit and BM gear. The gap is too big between Aug WH and BM.

[LordExozone]

with the current changes, it doesn't even take that long.

 

1 additional week of very casual pugging wz to get 1-2 WH piece, depending on what you buy (hit valor 60)

 

Not sure what you consider casual, but if someone does all the dailies + weekly for a week, and taking into account an average of a 10 minute wait for a warzone pop and a win ratio of 50% that means a time investment of at least 1 hour and 40 minutes a day. Times 7 and that's a whooping 11 hours and 40 minutes time investment per week. I don't think that's really casual anymore.

 

And by doing this, you only acquire around 2000 ranked warzone tokens. Barely enough to get the gloves or boots, and my no means enough to get the expensive pieces like gun, helmet or chest.