Bioware - When are you going to fix the class imbalance in PvP?

[oredith]

Oh, I forgot powertechs couldn't do any measureable DPS from distance. Silly me.

yes, IM + railshot every 15 seconds.

 

i guess if that's significant damage, to the point where you need to worry about it, you probably need better gear.

 

PT pyro need to be in melee range to be able to rocket punch / flame burst to be able to reset the timer to railshot again. if we're at ranged, and KEPT at ranged, we have 1 meaningful attack ever 15 seconds.

 

hopefully your team knows threat assessment enough to have blown up the PT within that 15 second window.

 

speaking as a pyro, i can tell you that with every cooldown popped, it takes significantly less than 15 seconds to kill me if a team is on me.

[IHate]

the jump cooldown probably needs to be increased to be on par with other gap closers.

 

the grapple (PT pyro) however, is on a 45s cooldown, and subject to resolve, so it doesn't work half the time.

 

case in point, by the time a ball runner is on your side of the ramp, he's got enough resolve built up that grapple will nearly never work.

Yeah, moreover just making the point that it doesn't always take the Sage/Sorc being out of position as there are several gap closers on several professions on the opposing side to get to him wherever he is.

[oredith]

Don't kill the pyro... it only helps him manage heat...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

OK, I'm done making fun of all the epic noob posts....

i'm still relatively new to pvp, but my new favorite trick when i'm having heat problems, is to run after the sages. it doesn't matter that i'm hitting them with my pewpew-autoattack, it almost never fails, they start casting force lift!

 

this is so awesome on so many levels. i vent heat from being CC'd, and also from not doing anything, AND it stops the other team from reaming me.

[UGLYMRJ]

i'm still relatively new to pvp, but my new favorite trick when i'm having heat problems, is to run after the sages. it doesn't matter that i'm hitting them with my pewpew-autoattack, it almost never fails, they start casting force lift!

 

this is so awesome on so many levels. i vent heat from being CC'd, and also from not doing anything, AND it stops the other team from reaming me.

 

LOL... that's pretty clever. I may steal that at some point.

 

Honestly thought I don't even have the CC break vent spec'd. Very rarely do I find myself with heat issues. The standard vent heat ability is enough for me most of the time. It does happen but I always wondered why so many people claim to have a hard time managing heat. Especially with the free use ability that gives a move without adding to heat... it's really not that bad. I think a lot of PT's are using incendiary missile way too often.

 

That ability is the highest heat sucking ability you're gonna be using and i ONLY use it at long range and if possible I pop that ability that gives me the heat free attack right before. Try to stay away from that one and please.... I'm only throwing these at you because you said you are new to PvP but please.... DO NOT underestimate your taunts. From DPS spec I have the most protection in WZ's 4/5 times. This should not happen. Use those taunts... give your healers some protection whether you're a tank or not.

 

Sorry, another off topic rant but hey... work sucks and this is way more entertaining.

 

I'm actually gonna start a post on it now.

[islander]

yes, IM + railshot every 15 seconds.

 

i guess if that's significant damage, to the point where you need to worry about it, you probably need better gear.

 

PT pyro need to be in melee range to be able to rocket punch / flame burst to be able to reset the timer to railshot again. if we're at ranged, and KEPT at ranged, we have 1 meaningful attack ever 15 seconds.

 

hopefully your team knows threat assessment enough to have blown up the PT within that 15 second window.

 

speaking as a pyro, i can tell you that with every cooldown popped, it takes significantly less than 15 seconds to kill me if a team is on me.

 

Our armor is pretty crappy, you know. I'm at 1235 expertise and 18k base health (literally, just over 18k). My DR is 19%. We have no active defenses other then a bubble every 17-20 seconds that eats about 3k damage.

 

Honestly again, I almost never find myself fighting BH's one on one, now that servers have been merged Fatman is about 50/50 on the sides. Most of the time when I'm in melee range of a trooper - it's not by choice. Facetanking as a sorc is never desired.

 

If someone is force lifting you, it's because they need to escape you, no other reason. They can't stand and DPS you if they are a healer). It's an exercise in futility. They get one force run over 30 seconds (or 20 if so set up in lightning) so after that they've got to at least stay in auto attack/high impact bolt range.

 

I haven't leveled a bounty hunter or trooper, so I'm not personally well versed in the in's and out's of your class, for sure.

Edited July 24, 2012 by islander

[DarthOvertone]

So attempting to justifiy a Powertechs damage by saying they are a DPS class is first of all not an argument, but rather a trivially obvious fact.

 

Exactly, it's a trivial and obvious fact that DPS classes could out damage other classes in a WZ (DPS or otherwise). And that is a perfectly good argument, especially when someone like the OP objects to those classes in general terms while they are working as intended. It's so basic and rudimentary that it's pathetic it needs to be mentioned at all, but the veil of QQ tends to blind peeps to the obvious...

 

 

Oh and by the way my main is a scoundrel,so what you talking about a DPS class is supposed to DPS? apparently BW and the QQ crowd saw an end to that.

 

Ops/Scoundrels got shafted thanks to mindless QQ just like the OP's. You will get no argument from me there. They need some love to sustained DPS when out of stealth. At the same time, a fully geared Ops/Scoundrel in capable hands is still presently a serious force to be reckoned with. Not sure what that has to do with the OP's statement, but you have my sympathies (I have a Scoundrel as well btw).

[Nocadoj]

If you don't think that Commando/Sage dps need a buff or Vanguard/Sentinel dps needs a nerf, you haven't been paying attention to rwz. Regular wzs don't matter, so stop basing your opinions on those.

 

In addition, I rarely see Commando/Sage dps on rwz teams. They normally have at least 1 Vangaurd and 1 Sentinel, sometimes even more.

 

Most people are rerolling Vanguards/PT cause they are the easiest class to play and have overpowered burst, which is critical for rwz teams. Vanguard and Sentinel has to be the most played ACs in RWZ now.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Nocadoj

[islander]

If you don't think that Commando/Sage dps need a buff or Vanguard/Sentinel dps needs a nerf, you haven't been paying attention to rwz. Regular wzs don't matter, so stop basing your opinions on those.

 

In addition, I rarely see Commando/Sage dps on rwz teams. They normally have at least 1 Vangaurd and 1 Sentinel, sometimes even more.

 

Most people are rerolling Vanguards/PT cause they are the easiest class to play and have overpowered burst, which is critical for rwz teams. Vanguard and Sentinel has to be the most played ACs in RWZ now.

 

Oh, this is absolutely true. I have a lowbie trooper, and it wasn't even a question:

 

Want to heal? Merc/Commando

Want to do anything else? Vanguard/PT and its not close.

[TheRampage]

There is no imbalance. Only thing im worried is state orf marauder/sentinels. They have great dps and can stay alive loner then vanguard or jugg tanks, but lack of range damage is disturbing.

[oredith]

There is no imbalance. Only thing im worried is state orf marauder/sentinels. They have great dps and can stay alive loner then vanguard or jugg tanks, but lack of range damage is disturbing.

that's why they have a 15 second cd gap closer, and a 99% dmg reduction, so that they can close the gap and not be at ranged..

[Jherad]

When I start to see other DPS classes come anywhere *near* the damage output of PTs and (a particular spec of) Sentinels, we'll be approaching a modicum of balance.

 

Right now it isn't even close. They're the only two classes that can consistently put out approaching a million damage in RWZs. Someone at Bioware is asleep at the wheel.

[Dissentus]

There is no imbalance. Only thing im worried is state orf marauder/sentinels. They have great dps and can stay alive loner then vanguard or jugg tanks, but lack of range damage is disturbing.

 

Your post makes absolutely no sense. It's either one or the other. You say there isn't one, and then go on to complain about things. Huh?

 

As far as my opinion, there is always an imbalance, these type of games will never be flawless. The only way to achieve that is equalizing every class into the same abilities and gear.

[vimm]

Like expertise ?

 

If so i agree.

 

That's the big one, mhm. There were many changes in that patch, like nerfs to merc/mando healers and sorcerer healers.

[vimm]

Oh, this is absolutely true. I have a lowbie trooper, and it wasn't even a question:

 

Want to heal? Merc/Commando

Want to do anything else? Vanguard/PT and its not close.

 

My healer powertech will save your life!

[MalakDawnfire]

I haven't read the thread but I'd advise Bioware take the easy fix and nerf Operatives, PVP will flourish soon after.

[oredith]

When I start to see other DPS classes come anywhere *near* the damage output of PTs and (a particular spec of) Sentinels, we'll be approaching a modicum of balance.

 

Right now it isn't even close. They're the only two classes that can consistently put out approaching a million damage in RWZs. Someone at Bioware is asleep at the wheel.

 

I'll just quote myself

 

^

my server forum has a list of server records

 

you'll note that none of the biggest hits came from a PT pyro.

 

hell, even the most dmg done is not dominated by PT (only 1 in 5).

 

top dmg, sorc

PT pyro, 4th

 

i guess we're all balanced, your job is done, BW!

 

and please, please, please, someone argue that must be because we have horrible PT on the server - that'd be awesome.

[Gidoru]

I'll just quote myself

 

 

 

top dmg, sorc

PT pyro, 4th

 

i guess we're all balanced, your job is done, BW!

 

and please, please, please, someone argue that must be because we have horrible PT on the server - that'd be awesome.

 

So a class that uses a lot of aoe got top damage? Oh no. Too bad PTs come close or beat that damage with mostly single target.

Also your server must be pretty bad as those numbers are low.

[UGLYMRJ]

I'll just quote myself

 

top dmg, sorc

PT pyro, 4th

 

i guess we're all balanced, your job is done, BW!

 

and please, please, please, someone argue that must be because we have horrible PT on the server - that'd be awesome.

 

I'm not surprised by this at all... I see a ton of sorcs/sages putting up some impressive numbers. I think the imbalance calls come from players who are simply not top tier nor completely understand the mechanics of the game. They scream PT is OP since it's one of the easiest classes to play however they just don't understand how to properly utilize the other classes in order to compare them in a logical manner.

 

I would bet a 6 month sub that the majority of people calling for nerfs are not top tier players and that's where these nerf calls come from.

 

On the other end of that. This is an MMO... it will never be perfectly balanced... EVER! WoW has been out near 10 years... go to those forums and you'll see the same cries for nerfs. Balance is a matter of perspective. Simple as that.

 

Like I said earlier today.... just because it's ones opinion does not make it fact. Even if there are a lot of you on these forums. Millions of people believe scientology and the book of Mormon to be fact. Just because millions of people believe it to be true does that mean it's fact? No... that's called a perspective.

 

This is the reason nerf threads are so damn annoying to me.

Edited July 24, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Gidoru]

I'm not surprised by this at all... I see a ton of sorcs/sages putting up some impressive numbers. I think the imbalance calls come from players who are simply not top tier nor completely understand the mechanics of the game. They scream PT is OP since it's one of the easiest classes to play however they just don't understand how to properly utilize the other classes in order to compare them in a logical manner.

 

I would bet a 6 month sub that the majority of people calling for nerfs are not top tier players and that's where these nerf calls come from.

 

On the other end of that. This is an MMO... it will never be perfectly balanced... EVER! WoW has been out near 10 years... go to those forums and you'll see the same cries for nerfs. Balance is a matter of perspective. Simple as that.

 

Like I said earlier today.... just because it's ones opinion does not make it fact. Even if there are a lot of you on these forums. Millions of people believe scientology and the book of Mormon to be fact. Just because millions of people believe it to be true does that mean it's fact? No... that's called a perspective.

 

This is the reason nerf threads are so damn annoying to me.

 

Like I said earlier today.... just because it's ones opinion does not make it fact.

 

Yet your constant claims that PTs and Marauders are not overpowered must be fact? You seem to suggest that it is. Funny how when someone else makes a claim its just an opinion so its not a fact. But when you make a claim its just an automatic fact.

 

Furthermore, simply because an opinion is not necessarily a fact does not mean the opinion must be false. If the opinion is based on factual information then it could be true.

 

Funny how you're probably the biggest hypocrite and dont even realize it.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Gidoru

[Annex]

I think the imbalance calls come from players who are simply not top tier nor completely understand the mechanics of the game..

 

No, the missunderstanding comes from people who dont understand that wz numbers =/= effectiveness in all cases.

 

dot dot dot dot dot, aoe.

[Elkirin]

Instead of nerfs I suggest the following alternative;

 

Beside each class in the character creation window list the class pve/pvp difficulty rating. This rating would also be viewable on player character sheets.

 

The ratings could be;

 

Advanced, Challenging, Average, Easy .

 

No further nerfs required as people playing easy or advanced classes know who they are and what they face.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Elkirin

[UGLYMRJ]

Yet your constant claims that PTs and Marauders are not overpowered must be fact? You seem to suggest that it is. Funny how when someone else makes a claim its just an opinion so its not a fact. But when you make a claim its just an automatic fact.

 

Furthermore, simply because an opinion is not necessarily a fact does not mean the opinion must be false. If the opinion turns out to be true in reality then it must be a fact.

 

Funny how you're probably the biggest hypocrite and dont even realize it.

 

You sir... are not paying attention. As often as we have been in the same arguments I would think that you would have noticed by now that I CONSTANTLY use the words IMO (in my opinion) and on top of that I have stated multiple time that I feel like they are definitely 2 of the strongest DPS classes but NOT greatly over powered.

 

I have NEVER said I believe these to be FACT!

 

So before you twist my words and take things I say out of context. I suggest you pay attention and give the full story before making yourself look like a fool.

Edited July 24, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Jherad]

i guess we're all balanced, your job is done, BW!

 

I love it when people cherrypick, so they don't have to face uncomfortable truths. Let me make it a little more clear:

 

They're the only two classes that can consistently put out approaching a million damage in RWZs

 

When I see all the other dps doing that consistently, we'll talk.

 

Records mean sweet F.A. I've put out over 700k against a crap team before on my commando. If you think commandos are anywhere close to PTs, you need to lay off the crack.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Jherad

[Gidoru]

You sir... are not paying attention. As often as we have been in the same arguments I would think that you would have noticed by now that I CONSTANTLY use the words IMO (in my opinion) and on top of that I have stated multiple time that I feel like they are definitely 2 of the strongest DPS classes but NOT greatly over powered.

 

I have NEVER said I believe these to be FACT!

 

So before you twist my words and take things I say out of context. I suggest you pay attention and give the full story before making yourself look like a fool.

 

Here is a list of your claims from this one post alone that can be considered claims that something is the case and not merely your opinion that it is.

1.They scream PT is OP since it's one of the easiest classes to play

2. however they just don't understand how to properly utilize the other classes in order to compare them in a logical manner.

3. This is an MMO... it will never be perfectly balanced...

4. Balance is a matter of perspective. Simple as that.

 

Here are 4 claims you purport to be facts not opinions. This is just one post, shall i look through your others and do the same?

[UGLYMRJ]

Furthermore, simply because an opinion is not necessarily a fact does not mean the opinion must be false. If the opinion is based on factual information then it could be true.

.

 

And I love this edit even more... thank you for making yourself look like even more of a fool.

 

You mean factual information like the numbers and statistics recorded from each server to determine if the classes are performing on par with each other???

 

You mean something like THAT factual information.... Yeah... I sure wish Bioware would have something like that.