Class Feedback

[lexiekaboom]

 

This is a perception problem, but a very serious one. A dev post on mitigation (with actual numbers!) would go a long way here, since forum-lurker posts (such as my own) just aren't getting the message across.

 

 

I know this isn't a discussion form but just to help out this poster; the devs DID make a post about Mitigation. They said that armor mitigation was the single most important thing in tanking and that due to poor monster design shield and defense do very little. They also confirmed that heavy armor tanks where simply more useful in the current content and that isn't something they are going to change, although they might consider it in future content.

 

So no ... another dev post likely will not help!

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-june-22nd-2012

[stephenalandavie]

Kinetic Tank Pvp

 

1) A joke Most just jump on us for the easy kill with the recent Nerf.

 

2) To be honest i have to use a hybrid spec which they are trying to get rid of as it is and once this happens.

[naomicampuzano]

Hi everyone,

 

We’re looking for some specific feedback about each Advanced Class and spec. Your feedback here, along with other feedback we’ve been gathering and our internal metrics, may guide future class balance changes. Similar threads will be found in every Advanced Class forum.

 

Here are the two questions that we’d like to ask (please only post about specific specs that you actively play, and don’t forget to tell us which one you’re talking about!):

 

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Please answer the post using the same format and in no more than 2-3 sentences per question.

 

This is not a discussion thread, so please do not debate others’ feedback – everyone gets to share what they think. Any off-topic or unconstructive posts (or any that do not follow the above guidelines) will be removed without warning.

 

Remember, this isn’t the only thread we’re looking at for feedback – if you have more feedback than fits the above guidelines, please feel free to post a discussion thread. We’re looking to get some specific insights here, but we are always reading the forums to gather feedback and player concerns.

 

Thank you!

 

Used to be Infl/Balance with Bm dps gears, but had to change to kinetic after 1.3, wich is the one im currently using.

 

1.-It is now the weakest of the classes. I`ve had pvp squads complaining about "how useless that class is" when there`s more than one shadow in it. Wish i had a screenshot of that.

 

2.-I feel the shadow is no longer a tank, since its the weakest of the tanks, hardest to keep alive,less wanted on the squads by healers. But also my toon its not even on the top of DPS. Any balance sage (a class supose to be a healer) deals more damage than a shadow. So neither a good tank nor a good dps. Completely ridiculous.

[MasterShid]

Infiltration Spec (PvE)

 

1. Perceived as weak and has no place.

 

2. I personally love the spec, though I wish we were made much more group friendly. I'd like to see some type of DoT added to help with our sustained DPS. Lastly Shadow gear should look NOTHING like Sage gear.

[SvnStrSlm]

Infiltrations Mostly PVE

 

Others see us as week unsustained dps. they think we are too hard to heal for melee dps. In pvp our burst is good but we lack the tools for survivability.

 

Personaly my DPS is fine in PVE Compaired to sage gunslinger and vanguard DPS i am closer to the top. any melee is hard to heal if you are bad at positioning and moving your character to maintain dps. I will say after reading the dev post about us being in and out attackers i had to laugh. our cd on force cloak is too long and most of the time a dot ticks and breaks stealth before we can cleanse. We also lack the choice of stealth openers. basicly spinnig kick and rotation. where is our high damage ambush attack? we currently do not play anything like the devs want us to. things like reduced cd on force speed and improved force cloak are needed badly. our dps is fine but a high damage stealth opener is needed.

[Talaxinn]

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

My Shadow spec is Kinetic (tank) and the other members of my guild that I clear Hardmode EC with believe me to be a spikey tank when Resilience doesn't negate the boss' dmg, due to the fact that my armor is over 2300 points lower than our equally-geared Vanguard tank. All of the dps love my threat generation, so well done on that front. But during any fight that takes armor rating into account, the healers have to work much harder to keep me alive than our Vanguard or our Guardian.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I believe that my spec does too much damage in Warzones and has too low of an armor rating for a tank. The amount of damage that a Kinetic Shadow can do in dps pvp gear is far too strong for a tank, and our armor rating far too low to fit the traditional role of a tank in warzones (defend your healers). If you refuse to undo the armor nerf, you need to improve our defensive cooldowns to give us equal survivability to the other tanks in end-game content.

[babygotmoreback]

1.) Most people, whether in an ops or pvp, would prefer any other dps class than shadows. Infiltration and balance are both squishy with lesser sustained damage and utility than most other classes. When finding a group, many ask if you either have another dps toon you can bring, or if you know a sentinel. I prefer balance spec ,and I get told I should just roll a sage every time that I state my spec because balance sage is so much better. Problem is, I don't want to roll a sage. I enjoy my class/spec. As for the proclamation of "sneak attack" burst damage, the cd on force cloak is too long and burst only does so much when you are the squishiest of all dps classes in light armor. We are considered an easy kill and difficult to heal.

 

2.) Having played many dps classes, I must admit that balance shadow is my favorite by far. I love it's complexity with cycling dots and constantly watching procs as well as force in balance. Infiltration is also fun with much more burst and better resource management, but has slightly less survivability in my opinion. The shadow class and dps specs are fun to play, but it is discouraging when you are considered subpar simply because of class/spec.

[justadisplayname]

Talking about kinetic combat(33 - 0 - 8 atm) and PvP. Never tried other specs.

 

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

 

A strong spec for PvP with good damage, utility and survivability. I can tell that people are happy when they see some (good) shadows on their teams, as they can make a big difference.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I like it. I don't think it is overpowered, definitely not after the last patch. It can bring a lot to the team with proper use of 'guard' and taunts. It has 'pull' and 'stealth' which can help a lot with warzone objectives.

[MaliksKid]

Infiltration Shadow

1 How are we perceived by others

Weak DPS, Very Low Survivability, Bring nothing to the party with regards to (de)buffs.

 

2 How do I perceive it

We do have survivablity concerns compared to all other DPS classes as we are in light armor and thus cannot take many hits. We have no self healing, party buff, mob debuffs. Our only strong point is against someone like Soa who we can use the short windows at the end of the fight to put some serious burst damage down. We are poor at sustained single target and poor at AoE and have no real DoTs.

 

We are also very easy to read in PvP, a well played opponent will just wait for the second clairvoyant strike then try to negate the upcoming project.

 

I would like Shadows to get a Medium Armor Proficiency (maybe unlockable in the infiltration skill tree) to put us on par with sentinels and gunslingers, and maybe a party buff that combines the Sentinel and Gunslinger ones (increased damage / heals plus a damage reduction maybe at 50% of the level of the others). Finally something done to the talents to try to mix up the 4 attack combo that seems the staple of infiltration shadows (maybe a proc to allow shadow strike to work from the front).

 

It is a fun class to play though despite all that.

[ProKsnNwk]

Infiltration Shadow

 

1. How other perceive it?

Easy kill, why is he still playing this class.

Lack of DPS in PVE.

 

2. How I perceive it.

I would had re-spec'ed long time ago, if I wouldn't like this class.

I began with Infiltration Shadow, and I won't change that.

Infiltration Shadow are squishy, and they lack DPS, both in PVE and PVP.

 

After You disabled use of Relics and Adrenal in PVP, no burst, and still we have no sustained damage!

 

AND You even NERFED;

The Ability: Battle Readiness, which now Does NOT give Us, "Increase Damage by Force Attacky by 100%" any more.

Right now If Ours hits does not critical hit: 1-nce out of 2 or 3 times; We are Easy Kill, in my opinion.

 

We aren't, Burst DPS, not Sustained DPS and to boost We Are Squishy!

Edited July 20, 2012 by ProKsnNwk

[Missandei]

1. If someone spot the Shadow he presume that this is a ShadowTank and in 90% of cases he is right due to the near total uselessness of other 2 shadow specs...

 

2. After 1.3 among the 3 tanks the Shadow have to be a much more better geared to be on par with other 2.

The content that other tanks can do in Columi gear, Shadow must wear Rakata.

 

The selfhealing after 1.3 is a kind of joke.

Proposed changes: You must make 3 stacked TkT do selfheal instant while damage output remain channeled.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Missandei

[Zeaza]

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

Kinetic combat:

In rated warzone when the enemy team sees it is a shadow who is tanking, they will focus down the tank

very fast because its easy ( it cant compete with the cooldowns from a guardian (focus defense, enure, warding call, awe and freezing force) before 1.3 they could compete with guardians but not anymore, people rather take guardian tanks in their team because of their more efficiant cooldowns+charge.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I switched to infiltration spec, its fun to play when you solo que warzones, but is nothing compared to the other dps in the game, it can't compete with the marauders survivibility or with the powertech dmg output.,

[Tsenno]

1. As I stated in the Guardian thread, I'm pretty much a loner in MMO's so can't say much on Question #1.

 

2. I love the Shadow for two reasons in particular : stealth + double-saber = AWESOME ! However, one thing I noticed while on Nar Shadaa is that there aren't any double-bladed sabers for Shadows/Assassins in the Equipment Commendations Vendor's inventory. Admittedly, one could still buy a single saber, take out its mods and put them into their current double-saber, but that takes time and, by this point, a lot of creds. Just a thought.

[anstalt]

My Spec: Infiltration

 

1) How do others perceive me?

 

In PvP, my spec has become a joke since 1.3. With the relic nerf, I can no longer get massive burst on demand to make up for my failings elsewhere. I'm pretty much relegated to weak opponents and ninja-capping. In PvE, my guildies think I'm great coz I can off-tank when main tank dies, but in reality even when playing at my peak, my DPS is only equal to average DPS of sentinels and gunslingers. I'm a good player so I have a place, but the raid would be better off with another class. I completely lack utility in raids.

 

2) How do i perceive myself?

 

I think the spec lacks definition. Its a stealth class without a "from stealth" opener. Its a melee class without survivability. Its a force using class with minimal amounts of force. In pvp, our biggest issue is survivability: we die too quickly. We used to overcome that with big burst, but you removed our burst.... In pve, our biggest issue is sustained DPS which, whilst we can do it, remains much lower than the potential of other classes. Its a great looking class with nice/easy mechanics, but atm it lacks the top end potential that other classes have.

[gabrielluigi]

I play full Infiltration.

 

1) In PvP it seems like the other players think of shadows as miracle workers who should be able to stun lock enemies and stealth cap anything without back-up. (It's a little annoying.) In PvE I think most people see the Infiltration Shadow as a free out-of-combat cc for trash and nothing special in the DPS department.

 

2) I love playing Infiltration in most WZs, (not Huttball) I can mess with enemy players well (stun, run, do some damage, stealth out, stun again, do more damage, etc.) but only on a one on one fight and I'll rarely win in the long run. It seems like I'm only good for keeping 1 enemy out of the fight (which isn't so great -turning an 8v8 into a 7v7 doesn't do a whole lot unless it's their healer) and stealth capping nodes (which is awesome enough to keep my spec.) In PvE my damage is usually less than other similarly geared DPS and my stealth utility only really helps with the trash. The one thing that makes everything worth it is being able to exit combat in the middle of a boss fight and rez a fallen group mate without having to waste our healers combat rez or after it's already been used.

[Rashne]

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I primarily play as a tank for Ops. I love the spec and playstyle and I feel my raid benefits from my being there. The recent nerfs have not had as much of as a negative impact as many would complain and I do not feel or notice a major difference in my ability to tank. This is coming from someone with years of raid tanking experience across many classes in other MMOs. I know how to tank and what to look for.

 

We have the best threat gen and a lot of utlity in raid situations. We have good cooldowns although a straight damage reduction cooldown would be very handy.

[crazyBE]

Kinetic Combat

 

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

Easiest tank to gain threat as (both aoe and single target). Lowests PvE survivability since the most recent nerf.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

With correct usage of our resilience and deflection we can handle PvE. Although I have a harder time than our vanguard tank now taking heavy damage from Toth's frenzy for example.

I'll miss ending Infernal Council with 100% hp.

[Drudenfusz]

Kinetic Tank. Had tried month ago to dabble somewhat with the infiltration spec, but it felt too weak compared to the Kinetic spec, so I never went back (maybe I will try it out again when dual spec comes along, but since I never have enough credits, I don't bother spending them on retraining anymore).

 

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

PvE: Guess they would prefer to have a tank from another class than having a shadow in this role.

PvP: Everyone is expecting people to use the kinetic tree when you are shadow, because the other specs just suck.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

PvE: I feel too weak to try that any longer... which leads to me only having good PvP gear, but that will prevent me even more to ever go back and play some PvE content in SWTOR.

PvP: I use mostly DPS gear, like almost every shadow tank in PvP, because the tank gear feels like it is no good in PvP (with the exception of the armour mods, to get the set bonus). I think the class is fine in PvP, but since everybody and their aunt is playing this class, it can be hard to find a place in a group to do rated Warzones.

[Kurvv]

I play infiltration pretty much exclusively in pvp.

 

1. I've been told I'm a good player by many people, yet I still can't get a spot on any guild's rwz team. Everybody wants sents, vanguards and gunslingers for dps.

 

2. This spec is far and away my favorite playstyle of the three. Unfortunately any kinetic/hybrid build has more utility and balance has higher dps, and that's only within our AC. Sents have higher dps and more utility, vanguards have higher burst and more utility. I feel like there's nothing I'm good for in a rwz. I can solo/ninja nodes, but that only works against bad teams.

 

Give infiltration the ability to remove guard for x seconds on a y second cooldown. It gives a us a defined role in pvp and makes pvp tanking a more dynamic/nuanced skill.

[Shouku]

Hi everyone,

 

We’re looking for some specific feedback about each Advanced Class and spec. Your feedback here, along with other feedback we’ve been gathering and our internal metrics, may guide future class balance changes. Similar threads will be found in every Advanced Class forum.

 

Here are the two questions that we’d like to ask (please only post about specific specs that you actively play, and don’t forget to tell us which one you’re talking about!):

 

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Please answer the post using the same format and in no more than 2-3 sentences per question.

 

This is not a discussion thread, so please do not debate others’ feedback – everyone gets to share what they think. Any off-topic or unconstructive posts (or any that do not follow the above guidelines) will be removed without warning.

 

Remember, this isn’t the only thread we’re looking at for feedback – if you have more feedback than fits the above guidelines, please feel free to post a discussion thread. We’re looking to get some specific insights here, but we are always reading the forums to gather feedback and player concerns.

 

Thank you!

 

 

Spec: Shadow Tank

 

I perceive it as adequate

 

In PvP I do OK. A little underpowered on PvE side after recent armor dmg reduction. Especially when AOE tanking multiple targets hitting lots of times with debuffs.

 

In PvP, having some trouble going against marauders, which I believe is the class we, as all tanks, are suppose to effectively counter ? Either they do too much elemental / internal dmg, or they debuff us too much or our defenses are inadequate, not sure which.

[Bladehawk]

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

 

No idea. Don't PVP. Am way too slow and don't believe in dying a lot.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Bizarre and underpowered but with good animations so I try to play the way I want to rather than your intended design; I want a stealth class with a combination of melee and force powers. Use single light-sabre only, hybrid (Balance/Kinetic), as explorer, nice and slowly, following the story, often over-levelling to manage quests. Quite fun.

[TianaArylle]

I'm a tank shadow, 31 Kinetic / 0 Infiltration / 10 Balance. I tank hard mode flashpoints only, no operations or pvp.

 

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

My jedi guardian friends are incredibly jealous of my shadow Everyone sees me as surprisingly effective as a tank, with good AOE tanking ability and nice versatility thanks to stealth/grapple.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I love my shadow tank - I hold AOE and single-target threat well, and I take damage steadily without sudden health drops to scare my healer. I feel like I'm in control of the battlefield thanks to grapple, taunting, and targetable AOEs. I like that I'm a mini-range tank that isn't tied to the 4m range to be effective. There's a little bit of skill bloat but not too much (I never use battle readiness, potency, saber strike, tumult, or force slow). I almost never use force speed in battle, which is a shame, but it's too uncontrollable. I do wish the "dots" I use (slow time/force breach) had a more visible effect on mobs so I could see when they drop without staring at tooltips, and OMG, I want a matrix cube :(

[zotow]

shadow, hybrid tank/dps (23/1/17, BM + WH Stalker)

 

1. How do you think your Shadow spec is perceived by other classes?

Very annoying, I think... Mind snap, force stun, force lift and knockdown for 2 seconds by spinning kick - after that my enemies gonna rage and get ready to destroy me, BUT there is two weighty arguments why they can not do that: resilience and force cloak.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

If my force cloak or resilience in cooldown or I have been stuned: I'll be in a resp-zone in 3 seconds and it doesnt depend with Deflection I am or without. I dont know HOW infiltration guys can play that, but if I am playing hard, infiltrations gonna pushed down in 1-2 secs.

 

My wishes: I rly want to play full-infiltration or full-balance spec, but i CAN NOT, there are only 2 specs that really playable: full-kinetic combat or hybrid. I hope that u guys will do shadow many-sided, that we can play all trees of him. Thank you!

[Sarezar]

1. I think the majority of players don't understand that Shadow tanks (my spec) can be main tanks as well as Vanguards and Guardians. This idea goes away when they play with me but I constantly see this in others that I haven't partied with yet. Thankfully, not everyone thinks like that.

 

2. My Shadow tank is my main character. Unfortunately, of all the balancing changes you have made, this one's was the only ones that made my class less fun to play. I fully appreciate and agree that you need to balance classes and I don't need to do "10k damage with 1 hit" to enjoy a class. But since the 2 major nerf bats, I don't enjoy it as much anymore. I don't feel particularly weaker and I can happily adjust my playstyle. Please understand that when you balance a class it is important that you preserve the fun factor. You changed shadow tanks to a very boring class in comparison to what it was.

[Awthtem]

1. I think others perceive my hybrid dps/tank/balance shadow as underpowered/useless in very competitive pvp (which pug pvp is all i do). Honestly, i dont care one bit what other folks think as long as i know i am putting up great stats AND greatly contributing to the TEAM. I may not put up the most dmg or protection, but i usually at the top of comms.

2. I have a lot of fun on my shadow. I try to run a balanced spec so i can be useful in almost any scenario. I feel as though this makes me a little less useful in very competitive pvp (but to be expected i think). I do this mostly b/c the 'stock' dps or 'stock' tank specs ARE underpowered in pvp - so i have tried various mixed skill pt specs to come up with something that works for me.