Fajing Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Its an R. P. G. You want pure player vs player, go play a FPS on a console. Otherwise; whether you like it or not, gear will play a role even if not in the game, but rather via better PCs and equipment. RPGs really take out players "skill" to a certain degree anyway by providing auto aim and cooldown timers. Thats the way it is. Someday, somebody is going to make an FPS with 24+ significantly distinct character builds each of which have over 30 abilities at their disposal at the same time. Man .. that's going to be a fun game. Or an MMO* with purely skill-based PvP. That would be cool too. (* with the full set of abilities - 1 hotbar worth is kind of gimping the runtime complexity of PvP, although it does keep the character building side) Or they could just say "That's the way it is" and keep making games that are either marginally better or marginally worse than WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNairb Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Well duh... 2.9M is for the first 13, then when you have new gear it is 100k for Augmentation Kit and to purchase the Augment slot so that is another 1.3M on top of your 2.9M initial investment. Aug kits are more 50K per blue MK-6, not 100K+. but the way your taking it you would have to plunk 2.9Mil Each set, which you dont. yes the First teir would be a couple mil, but every teir after that will be Drastically less. because you dont have to rebuy all the augments. and a Augmented REcruit will have a better time then Unaugmentes Recruit, same with BM Vs Aug BM and because you wont get BM/WH gear all at once, you dont have to plunk it down all at once. i still have 3 or 4 peices left to Augment, i jsut have the Primary slots ( Head, glove, chest, leg, feet ) as well as mainhand/offhand and 1 relic. rest i dont have augmented yet *edit - im just assuming Recruit can be augmented, never owned the set, leveld through Champ, Cent, and was in BM gear before the Recruit gear came out Edited July 5, 2012 by CKNairb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 This just in... fully augmented and optimized War Hero gear is better than Battlemaster and recruit gear. You heard it here first. ZOMG!!! You mean I get rewarded for putting in more time than other players and reap the rewards!?!?! Shenanigans!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coerCez Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 ZOMG!!! You mean I get rewarded for putting in more time than other players and reap the rewards!?!?! Shenanigans!!! Noone is arguing against poeple who have put in time to be rewarded. We are all arguing against people who have put in time to gain extreme advantage over people who do not have obscene amount of time to devote to a video game. You can have your Gladiator's Drake (WoW reference) for all I care. I am againt an unfair advantage based on the time committed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telree Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Noone is arguing against poeple who have put in time to be rewarded. We are all arguing against people who have put in time to gain extreme advantage over people who do not have obscene amount of time to devote to a video game. You can have your Gladiator's Drake (WoW reference) for all I care. I am againt an unfair advantage based on the time committed. This is an MMO, that means (and has always meant) he who has no life gets the gear. Name one MMO that doesnt. You made your WoW reference, well unless things have changed radically in the last two and a half years since I played that game, gear grinding was how it worked in that game as well....and I remember plenty of times folks haveing much better PvP gear than others. You know what we did? We played the game, and grinded out the gear to compete. It's no different in SWTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Someday, somebody is going to make an FPS with 24+ significantly distinct character builds each of which have over 30 abilities at their disposal at the same time. Man .. that's going to be a fun game. Or an MMO* with purely skill-based PvP. That would be cool too. (* with the full set of abilities - 1 hotbar worth is kind of gimping the runtime complexity of PvP, although it does keep the character building side) Or they could just say "That's the way it is" and keep making games that are either marginally better or marginally worse than WoW. They tried to do that 2nd one with SWG when the NGE first launched. All weapons had the same DPS and all armor mitigated the same. It did not go well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trews Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Noone is arguing against poeple who have put in time to be rewarded. We are all arguing against people who have put in time to gain extreme advantage over people who do not have obscene amount of time to devote to a video game. You can have your Gladiator's Drake (WoW reference) for all I care. I am againt an unfair advantage based on the time committed. Yes you are arguing against people who have put in time to gain rewards. Stop complaining and earn them for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Noone is arguing against poeple who have put in time to be rewarded. We are all arguing against people who have put in time to gain extreme advantage over people who do not have obscene amount of time to devote to a video game. It takes 2 weeks of very casual play to get full BM gear these days, and thats if you didnt save any comms from the 10-49 bracket like you should have (5500 comms to be exact) How is that obscene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diapers Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 so the best pvp gear in the game is much better then the lower tier? amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) First I, like some of the other posters agree you should compare all gear either augmented or un-augmented. You can augment any level of PvP gear and the augments can be removed when you upgrade. Next, casual players. What is a casual player? I work full time, teach part time, exercise, and still play quite a bit. One poster in this thread said they only play 1-2 hours a week. Well, that is casual, but I'm not sure why they posted since at that rate they shouldn't even have 1 50 yet If you are that casual you should be enjoying the leveling process or playing a game that doesn't require a time investment and that won't be any MMO I've ever played. I make my own augments. I mean I do have crafters and they can all make augments once they buy or discover the schematics. I did have to level slicing a bit for those parts. Edited July 5, 2012 by Erasimus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekish Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I think legitimacy of numbers are up to one's way of optimizing their Gear. I opted to Optimize for Power, as you can clearly see between your optimized set and mine there is more than 400+ power difference. However, I am not arguing how to best optimize a gear. What I am arguing that people with crazy amount of time in their hand can optimize their gear to faceroll status and this is a huge gap between casual players. that's why i call them not legit because a) u didnt show HOW u got that number askmrrobot is there to help you b) if u have to cherry pick every single mod it will take u 6+ month playing normally is not a realistic thing mine are very realistic u cannot take as example the 0.5% of the population to make ur point to me your data are still pretty much useless the one i gave is the standard of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fajing Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 They tried to do that 2nd one with SWG when the NGE first launched. All weapons had the same DPS and all armor mitigated the same. It did not go well. I am unwilling to argue against any assertion of the form "NGE .. did not go well", but what issues, in particular, do you attribute to this particular change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSolidPat Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Regular Warzones = Time and space to learn and to grind... Ranked Warzones = True PVP sport. That is where you get your player vs player, since everyone in good ranked WZ have the same maxed out gear. So no need to ban PVP gear to have everybody equal. Beside, you need the 200-300 warzone experience to be able to fight at that level. Give a newcomer full PVP gear in warzones, he can still be **** on by a good player in battlemaster gear since he has no idea how to pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 C) Remove PvP gear all together, give everyone the same stats (adjusted to be appropriate for class) while in warzones, and make the competition completely skill/playstyle based, instead of gear based. ^^This. Reward PvPers with A LOT of vanity. Orange gear, pets, speeders, legacy unlocks, etc. etc. Make this a competetive PvP game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmog Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 ^^This. Reward PvPers with A LOT of vanity. Orange gear, pets, speeders, legacy unlocks, etc. etc. Make this a competetive PvP game! Same thing can be said about the PvE portion of this game. Stop asking for hands outs and earn your stuff. You have to earn it in PvE, why should pvp be different.. Get real guys earn your stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skotish Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Seriously this game is just tdm not one thing different bar the silly timesink Good night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrolan Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Same thing can be said about the PvE portion of this game. Stop asking for hands outs and earn your stuff. You have to earn it in PvE, why should pvp be different.. Get real guys earn your stuff... PvP is not PvE there is no real progression in PvP (that actually requires getting more and more powerful gear) except in terms of getting more skilled. So make the gear progression horizontal instead of vertical and reward good players in other ways. Like Guild Wars 2 is doing. Edited July 6, 2012 by Morrolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unboundfive Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 C) Remove PvP gear all together, give everyone the same stats (adjusted to be appropriate for class) while in warzones, and make the competition completely skill/playstyle based, instead of gear based. As others have said...this ^^^ Find a better way to reward PvP...but it is so tiring to see good games go down this path of great PvP gear leaving casual PvPers (such as myself) out in the cold. I'm interested in playing against another player, not playing against better gear. Imagine how silly it would be to put an Operations Champion in a 4 man Flashpoint. Pretty bad right? Well, that is exactly what all these gear wars does to PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Any reason why the stats presented so conveniently leave out BM augmentation and compare it with WH augmentation? The stat difference between blue augments and purple ones are minimal, which blue augs are like only -2 in stats compared to purple ones. The difference in stat points is like, by 16 or something when counting 8 slots, which is usually less than 2% difference. The price nowadays goes as low as 6k for Mk-6 slot kits, and depending on augmentation type a blue augmentation can be anywhere between 1k to 10k. On average, it takes 10k for a single piece of equipment to be drilled and attached with blue augs. You can do just Ilum and Corellia for dailes and that's like 10k credits alone. I've attached augments to BM gear for my alts, and while it certainly is not as powerful as augmented WH gear, its reasonably competitive and the odds are around 3:7 ~ 4:6 in Win:Loss ratio. Comparing the opponent is using a higher tier of gear, this is not unreasonably weak. Its about as expected. Simply put, BM gear is easy to obtain, and much more cheaply augmented. People spend time and effort, and credits to get their gear better. A diligent effort for dailies for 2~3 planets everyday, for 1 week, is enough to get your BM gear fully augmented. If people don't want to do this, then fine, its their choice. But they better not expect to be able to use as effective gear - at least, if they find its not worth putting their effort into it, then it is only fair they lose that much of performance, as compared to people who put their effort into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 As others have said...this ^^^ Find a better way to reward PvP...but it is so tiring to see good games go down this path of great PvP gear leaving casual PvPers (such as myself) out in the cold. I'm interested in playing against another player, not playing against better gear. Imagine how silly it would be to put an Operations Champion in a 4 man Flashpoint. Pretty bad right? Well, that is exactly what all these gear wars does to PvP. Being a casual player is no excuse for not being able to get gear. I'm a casual player. I work full 8 hour days (actually a lot more). I come home and have about 2 hours into game play which barely gives me enough time to run 2 daily quest planets (Ilum and Correllia) and play at most 7~8 matches per day. It's been a few weeks now but that was enough time and credits earned to equip my alt with mostly BM gear and 3~4 pieces of WH gear, and get them all augmented. Not the best geared, still at a disadvantaged position against full WH+augmented opponents, but the vast majority of opponents are more or less on my level. There was nothing 'degrading' ' about the past few weeks. Only the first week or two in fresh-lv50 status is tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippeh Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Gear is the difference between some douchebag hopping away from you laughing while never going below 80% and him stopping to /say how OP you are right before you send him back to the spawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 There is something fishy with that 1250 Str with WH. Thought it would be way more. You're used to seeing it with the 6% to main stat from your template as well, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Same thing can be said about the PvE portion of this game. Stop asking for hands outs and earn your stuff. You have to earn it in PvE, why should pvp be different.. Get real guys earn your stuff... PvE is for scrubs. Could not care less about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 This just in... fully augmented and optimized War Hero gear is better than Battlemaster and recruit gear. You heard it here first. The thread is about how big the gap is specfically; it isn't simply stating that there is a gap, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolleebindu Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Everyone is forgetting that this is an RPG YOU do not get better, your character does. You are playing the role of the character you choose and the gear you get makes him better at aiming/slicing/healing/chopping or whatever. You are looking for a different genre. I raise you legacy system... Your legacy gets better i.e. you can play more characters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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