Healing is fine, they said. Just gear up, they said.

[Annex]

looks just as good as your 'yes' argued point

 

 

soooooooo many kids in this forum like to cry about game mechanics instead of adapting and learning to play the actual game. its rather sad

 

Great, we can all admit its possible to be immature.

 

Still dodging my points tho, L2P is easy to say. Point in question:

 

Why am I "bad" and need to "L2P" on my sorc healer (despite 10 years of experience in PvP healing and prior success) compared to my jugg (an archetype I generally do not excel in).

 

L2P? "bad"? All easier things to toss out than actually tackling the points raised.

[Dmasterr]

Why am I "bad" and need to "L2P" on my sorc healer (despite 10 years of experience in PvP healing and prior success) compared to my jugg (an archetype I generally do not excel in).

 

Because you are whining on the forum, asking for bioware favoritism when other players are performing not just fine but great?

 

... and to prove that time spend doing something doesn't necessarily make you good at that "something"?

 

That's my verdict.

[Annex]

Because you are whining on the forum, asking for bioware favoritism when other players are performing not just fine but great?

 

... and to prove that time spend doing something doesn't necessarily make you good at that "something"?

 

That's my verdict.

 

Yeah, I understand your point of view.

 

How could a discussion be anything but whining right? I mean you can't even QUESTION balance or game mechanics without it being a whine. Obviously.

 

Of course just posting over and over again about how awesome you are is WAY more constructive and in no way reflective of the posters self esteem.

 

Heres a nice thought for you, If I'm "asking for favortism" doesnt that contradict the fact that I play a jugg AND a sorc? Favoritism for what? Im saying 1 archetype I play is overpowered and one isnt. Pretty balanced if you ask me.

 

Which is far more than can be said for the "L2P" crowd.

 

L2discuss, L2read, L2beobjective.

 

Take your pick.

[TKofSweden]

It's absurd. All I'm asking for, and a lot of others too, is to just be able to play the game. There are changes that can be made that will give us a chance to contribute without making us OP. Besides, right now we have FotM classes, and people are playing them, and they're demolishing Sorc/Sage. So we should just leave that alone because it's ok to have a FotM that's killing us, but it's not ok for us to be FotM? Your reasoning is flawed.

My argument is that when I perform good it is based on my skills, not because my class is OP. if Sages are buffed it doesn't matter how good we play, our performance is always goingt to be blamed on the buff/FOTM and not the player.

[TKofSweden]

There is an interesting topic with some data from 124 RWZS here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=498093

 

The amount of players on each spec actually supports the OPs argument:

 

Class #of players

PowerTech/Vanguard 372

Marauders/Sentinels 402

Snipers/Gunslingers 21

Sorc/Sage 50

Jugg/Guardian 42

Assassin/Shadow 83

Operative/Scoundrel 22

Merc/Commando 20

 

CLASS/ Kills/ Deaths/ Kills per Life/ Objectives

PowerTech/Vanguard 34 7 4.86 5100

Marauders/Sentinels 27 6 4.50 6300

Snipers/Gunslingers 39 6 6.50 8500

Jugg/Guardian 28 5 5.60 9075

Sorc/Sage 33 10 3.30 7600

Shadow/Assassin 27 6 4.50 9150

Operative/Scoundrel 31 7 4.43 8950

Merc/Commando 24 8 3.00 7450

 

Top Kills Class: Snipers/Gunslingers (actually healers were the top but that's another story)

Class that Dies the Most: Sorc/Sage

Top Kills per Life Class: Snipers/Gunslingers (again, AOE)

Top Objectives Class: Jugg/Guardian

 

Biggest hit recorded in the 124 rated warzones: 8328 from a PowerTech Pyro. Another one real close: 8317 from a gunslinger.

 

Healing Numbers:

Class # Median HLG Average HLG

Sorc/Sage 272 377k 401k

Op/Scoundrel 113 341k 374k

Merc/Commando 98 306k 363k

 

Dmg/Kill Dmg/Death

PT 10705.9 1529.4

Mara 12555.6 2092.6

Sniper 8743.6 1457.3

Jugg 11535.7 2307.1

Sorc 9757.6 975.8

Sin 11000.0 1833.3

Op 8548.4 1221.2

Merc 10083.3 1260.4

 

Sorry, there is no breakdown to HPS or biggest heal per class ATM in that topic. These numbers could add to the discussion though.

[Oobob]

Because you are whining on the forum, asking for bioware favoritism when other players are performing not just fine but great?

 

... and to prove that time spend doing something doesn't necessarily make you good at that "something"?

 

That's my verdict.

 

except that a lot of people here are extremely skilled sorcs, some with bis everything, and you just ignore them and act like you know more when you have 2 dps mains. and talking to geared/skilled sorcs in game, the advice is overwhelmingly to reroll op healer, then make fun of the metrics that resulted in that class balance for pvp.

 

the most telling part is you think sorc healers want to be invulnerable going back to 1.2. good juggs and maras could utterly dismantle a sorc healer before 1.2. interrupts negate all our big heals and it could completely shut us down. now i can't even tell the good smash juggs and maras from the facerolling dps.

 

again, i regularly top the rwzs i play in as hybrid spec with 3/14 wh and the rest augmented bm, and in addition to my healing numbers the cc is mitigating crazy dmg. the main problem is that these heal numbers are mainly marginal heals on dps that aren't being focused. the dps is still steamrolled one by one while i run like a madman attempting to slow this process with cc and bubble, then I die in 6 seconds. after which the team tends to follow. meanwhile op healers are able to stay alive and keep the team up to win the game.

 

that's what matters, not dumb healing numbers that you think you can interpret having never mained a healer or understanding what's important to our class, which is keeping people alive at objectives. if the game was get 600k heals and you win that'd be different. but it's not, it's keeping people alive to capture objectives, not the team deathmatch you and the mindless dps facerollers think makes up ranked pvp (apologizes to skilled dps).

 

beyond all this, it sucks. it sucks to play and isn't fun. it's essentially smear the healer while i get guarded/crosshealed. then if i drop, they move on, rolling up the entire group. this is how ranked pvp works. and that's why op healers are so great - they stay alive so long the dps roll up an entire group while the op healing is still kiting the opposing dps around.

 

my bis everything pt friend has 50s of every class but mara. he said he pities sorcs because he utterly dismantles them so quickly. he is often unable to kill a good op healer. as someone with a 50 pt, i have to agree.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Oobob

[Annex]

except that a lot of people here are extremely skilled sorcs, some with bis everything, and you just ignore them and act like you know more when you have 2 dps mains. and talking to geared/skilled sorcs in game, the advice is overwhelmingly to reroll op healer, then make fun of the metrics that resulted in that class balance for pvp.

 

• Problem is, for lazy people, its much easier to post "L2P" than to listen and make a rational assessment.
  
• For people with low self esteem, they get a lot more from posting "I am awesome so you must suck" than from making a rational assessment.
  
• For people with vested interests, they will never admit the issue as to do so would erode the crutch they lean on

 

Between the 3 views above, and yes, also the opposite (ie. cases where people ask for uneeded nerfs/ buff just to get their own class improved), it is next to impossible to have a balance discussion on an MMO forum.

 

Hence why the views of people who play multiple classes are more valuable than single class players, they generally have less bias so a couple of the pitfalls above are missed.

[fungihoujo]

my brother is playing sage healer and he dont have any problems staying alive, i want to see some proofs of this if it is true(link to fraps vid or some streming link, to make sure it is not a l2p issue)

 

OK then, we're waiting for this fraps vid of your brother dominating as a sage healer. You offered it- so deliver.

[Achyllis]

If you solo queue and there is no tank to guard you strongly consider quitting immediately. The WZ, not the game.

 

If you will only ever solo queue - reroll dps. This is the game BW has given us.

[fungihoujo]

There is more than one Sage agreeing with me, just as there are quite a few experiencing the same thing you are.

 

The bottomline still is: Can't increase Sage survivability for the casual player as it will make top tier Sages OP and the new FOTM.

 

You keep claiming that your performance shouldn't be dependent on others, well... You know PVP WZ is a 8v8 Team effort. You are not alone against te other team. And you are supposed to play TOGETHER. If you do not like that play style, change to a class that can act more independently. I thought we who rolled Healers did that for the team aspect, or did you roll it with the sole intention of jut healing yourself?

 

Good luck healing your team with a DPS on you- frankly, most healers are just healing themselves because that's all they can do. As for team effort- why can DPS kill a healer 1v1 so quickly, lock out their big heals entirely? So it's a group effort for a healer to be viable- but DPS don't need a team behind them?

 

No, it's rediculous how OP DPS are right now- they should have to rely on teammate DPS to get kills, and they should rely on tanks/healers to stay alive- but with their low CD interrupts, extreme mobility and defensives they don't have to.

 

It's a glaring unbalance and there is no excuse for it.

[fungihoujo]

If you solo queue and there is no tank to guard you strongly consider quitting immediately. The WZ, not the game.

 

If you will only ever solo queue - reroll dps. This is the game BW has given us.

 

This here- no mmo has ever treated healers this badly in pvp before. If you do not always have a pocket tank and a team to support you- don't play a healer.

 

Go play a marauder or PT or sin or... well, actually, you can manage pretty well as anything else in this game on your own.

[Dmasterr]

OK then, we're waiting for this fraps vid of your brother dominating as a sage healer. You offered it- so deliver.

 

One of our friend and rival guilds has a sorc healer named "Vivdom" who is the second highest rated player on the server and second by like 5 points; and since the server is TOFN, makes him highest rated EU.

 

Almost 2400.

 

And last time i checked he still had some BM items on.

 

Srsly learn to play. Sorc(all) and operative(dps) are not part of the classes where u can tunnel vision, or be immobile and do good on.

 

Learn to kite properly, learn to position yourself, etc etc..

Edited July 8, 2012 by Dmasterr

[NoTomorrow]

All healers need to die to melee dps. All healers need to die to ranged dps if the stay in his line of sight.

Guarded healers should be able to keep themselves alive against a single dps, but should not have enough time to heal other payers.

 

If i wanted to annoy the crap out of everyone, i would definetely respec my madness sorc into a hybrid healer. Those stupid amounts of lightning tree goodies should be be moved up in the tree. You should sacrifice much more to get them.

Edited July 8, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Annex]

Learn to kite properly, learn to position yourself, etc etc..

 

Kite when heals are all channeled and/or hard cast? The class is FORCED to turret heal to do anything.

 

Yes you can run in between heals but you sure are hell arent healing whilst you do.

[TheronFett]

All healers need to die to melee dps. All healers need to die to ranged dps if the stay in his line of sight.

Guarded healers should be able to keep themselves alive against a single dps, but should not have enough time to heal other payers.

 

Wait...what? LOL!

 

I'll have what he's having.

[juleanden]

OK then, we're waiting for this fraps vid of your brother dominating as a sage healer. You offered it- so deliver.

 

i did not offer anything, i asked your guys who is saying sorc healer is UP to post thier fraps/streams to prove it is not a l2p issue.

[Elkirin]

Try to stay calm, the people who spam, L2P may not understand the damage they are doing to the game or they just do not care.

 

I do ok many games on my sorc healer but I also evaporate under fire meh it is an interesting challenge.

 

More importantly, I play on only as long as I am enjoying the game.

 

Remove the fun and you remove the subscribers, good luck finding your 16 man ranked warzones without any subs...

[MbaxterBeau]

OP I totally agree with you and there's no point trying to explain this because people who aren't healing in pvp want to continue to cc and stun and crit you to death while doing their obnoxious little giggle.

 

My sorcerer healing is fine if not op in pve but in pvp it's pretty pointless unless you are on an excellent team. Healing in pvp is broken in this game. Yes gear helps but once you get chain stunned and interrupted you're toast.

[Khalore]

Ok just to get this out of the way first.

 

1. I do play a corruption sorc atm and honestly they are fine with the minor exception that they need a defensive CD other than knock back.

 

2. I was a 5x Gladiator in WoW on a marksman hunter and feral druid.

 

The reasons sorcs seem to get ripped apart so much faster than the other healers is easy to explain.

 

1. Cloth armor. The lowest armor mitigation in game. May not seems like much but any melee hit is going to do

roughly 20-30% more dmg on cloth than on heavy armor and 10-20% vs medium.

 

2. Lack of a proper defensive CD. Bubble and knock back are NOT defensive CDs.

 

3. Mobility. We can run around all we want. We aren't healing while doing that as our HoT is laughable at best and

all of our other heals either have cast times or are channeled.

 

In the end you need to find a tank to guard you and peal attackers off. A sorc/sage healer with a decent pvp tank is viable on any map. You will still get focused but you can live a lot longer than without said tank.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Ellvaan
Quoted Removed content

[furiousferret]

My wife plays a Sorc healer and I think the biggest issue she has over my Operative heals is when they see that Sorcerer symbol dps just go to it like a bee. I do believe Sorcerer healer is great but the issue is survivability. It needs a survivability boost where dps dont consider it the #1 target in every situation. When they can free cast there is no better, but they rarely get to free cast and for the average player its frustrating to play.

 

FWIW, one of our Sorc's broke 1 million healing in a rated warzone against one of the better teams on the server.

 

I do think there is a fun factor issue with Sorceror healing. Getting banged on by dps non stop and constantly interrupted isn't fun, and there is a pretty big skillcap from what I have seen between good Sorc's and bad ones.

 

Any dps in this thread claiming 'L2P' can just exit now. They've made the game so easy for dps to excel everyone thinks they're masters at the game and healing is simple. Almost every healer I know prefers playing a dps because it 5x less stressful and there is zero accountability for making a mistake.

[anwg]

My wife plays a Sorc healer and I think the biggest issue she has over my Operative heals is when they see that Sorcerer symbol dps just go to it like a bee. I do believe Sorcerer healer is great but the issue is survivability. It needs a survivability boost where dps dont consider it the #1 target in every situation. When they can free cast there is no better, but they rarely get to free cast and for the average player its frustrating to play.

 

If sorcerers get a survivability boost, then their healing output will have to be nerfed. They get focused on because the low survivability (debatable because except maybe a couple of ACs, everyone drop instantly with 2-3 dps on him) AND high throughput.

[Rogozhi]

My wife plays a Sorc healer and I think the biggest issue she has over my Operative heals is when they see that Sorcerer symbol dps just go to it like a bee. I do believe Sorcerer healer is great but the issue is survivability. It needs a survivability boost where dps dont consider it the #1 target in every situation. When they can free cast there is no better, but they rarely get to free cast and for the average player its frustrating to play.

 

FWIW, one of our Sorc's broke 1 million healing in a rated warzone against one of the better teams on the server.

 

I do think there is a fun factor issue with Sorceror healing. Getting banged on by dps non stop and constantly interrupted isn't fun, and there is a pretty big skillcap from what I have seen between good Sorc's and bad ones.

 

Any dps in this thread claiming 'L2P' can just exit now. They've made the game so easy for dps to excel everyone thinks they're masters at the game and healing is simple. Almost every healer I know prefers playing a dps because it 5x less stressful and there is zero accountability for making a mistake.

 

I play a Merc healer and if I'm paired with a sorc in WZ they become my focus target over anyone else. My priority is always to keep them alive and pumping out heals to the entire group. One healer is never enough for a WZ and being put in that situation is a lot of what I think makes things so frustrating for people.

[-Ransome-]

Im constantly seeing 700k heals in wz's, you get 2 that are cross healing each other, its nearly impossible to kill one of them or anyone else. Guard also adds another element that needs balancing. I think the heals are too much.

 

Heres a pic of me doing 270k damage and only getting one kill.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee477/jacobus67gt/ONEKILL.jpg

[furiousferret]

If sorcerers get a survivability boost, then their healing output will have to be nerfed. They get focused on because the low survivability (debatable because except maybe a couple of ACs, everyone drop instantly with 2-3 dps on him) AND high throughput.

 

Survivability doesn't necessarily mean improving the HP but making it more frustrating. Bother Mercs and Ops are a PITA focus on when they heal. If they could make the self-bubble more powerful that would also help.

 

I also think that 'Marks' should dissapear after a character dies, and class symbols should not show up for opponents. Figure out for yourself who is what class.

 

When I do rateds I probably put about 30% of my heals into our Sorcerer. It seems to work out though as we make sure their DPS is LOS'ed from the healers (the average dps isn't that smart) and our dps can burn them down.

[Kumbel]

I am a fully augmented war hero sage healer. I consider myself a good healer in pvp and pve.

l2p is a joke coming from someone who isnt playing the class. Basically its ignored by me.

The problem with pvp sage/sorc healing is the lack of the ability to survive.

I am almost always playing with our main tank who is a full war hero shadow.

If I get focused by 2 pyro techs even when guarding, not only do I die from it but they kill my tank off as well.

I am adapted to dropping the guard and allowing me to just die. Problem is this can cause my tank and myself to get off cycle and so I can get stuck without a guard and be dead within seconds.

Yes we have to play as a team, but we need to be able to survive long enough to get guard on us again.

This mobility thing being posted is utter crap. If I force run to escape not only am I out of range of guard but 8 times out of 10 I am pulled back and stunned. Plus the opposite happens. I am staying close to my tank and a powertech pulls me out of range of guard, stunning me and then destroying me without a single thing I can do to prevent it.

 

Basically what this means is NO matter how good a healer is and how good your tank is....dps will find a way take us down without any ability to counter it. We need some sort of stun immunity/cd to allow us to self heal or get in range of tank again.