Its time to nerf Vanguards and Powertechs

[Zorraa]

It's getting bloody old, someone crying nerf after EVERY patch . Seriously spend time playing the AT you would see nerfed, learn their strengths and weaknesses then adapt..

 

Geeze Louise, does this nerf xxx AT crap ever end?

[oredith]

So I guess using grapple before you full resolve your target never occurred to you huh?

 

Oh man you have a disadvantage vs 1 other AC in the game! (That you can still attack at range!) I feel bad for you.

here's a surprise for you - i have no way to fill someone's resolve, except for electro dart (60s cooldown) and carbonize (45s cooldown), neither of which would be used before grapple

 

but you would already know that, because you were a pro-PT before 1.1, right?

 

so assuming you knew the above, i would have to make the next step in logic, to say that you are simply incapable of connecting the dots, and fail to realize that i'm talking about OTHER people putting resolve on the target (huttball carrier?).

 

you know, i have guildies who have lvl 50s of every class, but they don't know how to play any of them very well. you and them should get together and compare notes. your blank notebooks probably look good next to each other.

[Twor]

I've had a powertech since before 1.1 so unfortunately for you, I do understand how they work. Its not complicated, although I'm sure you'd advocate otherwise.

 

Grapple still closes the game does it not? So what if is limited by resolve? As is stands right now this doesn't matter because you can still set up your damage rotation while walking into melee range. If you were actually a melee class, it would be a downside (and heaven forbid you have one!). But you're not, so its not.

 

And did you just try to downplay the burst of a Powertech?

 

In summary your whole post is nothing but a Powertech trying to defend his class that is in need of minor tweaks. I can counter them just fine, that doesn't mean they don't need an adjustment.

 

Uhm you didn't bring a single argument against anything he listed. He explained the burst potential a pyro has at max range and why he needs to be at 4-10m to bring the burst that everyone complains about.

 

He didn't even touch the weaknesses of the pyro (hint: look at the defenses and abilities to disengage).

 

Also this is a teamgame, I am not sure how you manage to keep the resolve bar unaffected from the cc that the rest of the team throws around (to your weak response that he shouldn't fill the resolve bar).

 

He could also have added that grapple has a travel time, so if you run around a corner in that exact second he will smash you against the wall, wasting a 45sec CD and filling your resolve for nothing). His point was that if you compare grapple with any other gap closer you will see the shortcomings it has.

[Sith-Viscera]

A rage jug smashes and does 5k damage to 5 people - 25k damage, and doesn't even really put anyone in danger.

 

In the same amount of time, a powertech does 20k damage to 1 person (and kills them).

 

Which is more valuable?

 

 

I 100% support this comment and the main posters, it is BS that Mara and Jugg lvl 50s getting killed or almost killed by lower lvl way lower lvl VNG and PWTS. I play both sides IMP and REPUB and i see how this class is over powered compared to my 2 lvl 50s SWs its just nuts and blatantly not fair, I mean give us Sith Warriors back our usable relics that we can activate in pvp and some of the stims that was nerf in this 1.3 update, hell i'll say let them have there crap reactivate pommel strike and savage kick which stuns i think. Plus lower our cool downs we have to wait 2 minutes to use unleashed while 2 and 3 people are taking turns stunning ya and then your dead, wow that's fun no challenge there.

 

Again i agree.....

[oredith]

I 100% support this comment and the main posters, it is BS that Mara and Jugg lvl 50s getting killed or almost killed by lower lvl way lower lvl VNG and PWTS. I play both sides IMP and REPUB and i see how this class is over powered compared to my 2 lvl 50s SWs its just nuts and blatantly not fair, I mean give us Sith Warriors back our usable relics that we can activate in pvp and some of the stims that was nerf in this 1.3 update, hell i'll say let them have there crap reactivate pommel strike and savage kick which stuns i think. Plus lower our cool downs we have to wait 2 minutes to use unleashed while 2 and 3 people are taking turns stunning ya and then your dead, wow that's fun no challenge there.

 

Again i agree.....

damn, i can do 20k in 1 hit?

 

Please let me know what ability this is, so i can start using it. i've obviously not trained in it.

Edited July 31, 2012 by oredith

[SaulSerpine]

damn, i can do 20k in 1 hit?

 

Please let me know what ability this is, so i can start using it. i've obviously not trained in it.

 

I want to know too !

[MobiusZero]

I personally find the main issue with PT to be Combustible Gas Cylinder (Pyro specced). For one, it does too much damage. For a class that already gets such great burst, why should they also get such an amazing DoT? And for some reason its damage often goes unnoticed, because people are so focused on the heavy hitting Rail Shot.

 

Second, there's the free slow that goes with it. It's a free slow, that merely requires the use of an already main damage rotation ability. I think that it needs to be limited in some way. Perhaps, have some sort of timer in which it can't be re-applied. Yes, I know other classes get basically spammable slows - the difference is that they require a GCD just for a slow. If their slows were tacked onto their main damage abilities, then yes, it would be unfair.

 

And then, I love how people get so upset at the stunlock duration of an Operative, when PT's actually have the longest stunlock in the game.

 

And actually, forget all that I just said - The worst problem with PT's, is they're so easy to play, even a chimpanzee could do it!

Edited July 31, 2012 by MobiusZero

[Dasgruberg]

I am a PT and i agree. Pyro needs a nerf. Buff advanced prototype instead

[TheBigBee]

a level 12 Powertech just top dps'd a huttball with almost 300k

explain that one.

i think the problem lies with combustible cylinder dot proc doing WAY too much, and the armor pen 60% of railshot should only be 30% like mercs

 

lol a level 12 has how many talent points....I think you are full of it..... but if you are being truthful.....welll then your server should just be shut down because you all suck

[TheronFett]

I'm getting tired of all these nerf Powertech threads. I'm going to go play my Marauder instead.

[Aaroneus]

I'm getting tired of all these nerf Powertech threads. I'm going to go play my Marauder instead.

 

me too.

 

let's nerf 5 star all inclusive resorts instead. a wristband should not be able to get you room service, 4 course meals, AND all the sugary boozy beverages you can drink. it is totally not fair for super 8 motels. how can they expect to compete in the hotel business?

[Werdan]

Unfortunately it'll get a lot worse before it gets better as the next balance pass isn't slated to hit until 1.4 (ETA October/November). The over saturation of PT/Van has destroyed rateds, normal warzones, and even guilds are being affected. Mine in particular won't even play rateds, much less stay logged in, if our PT's aren't playing. What's left is a shell of a guild that barely logs in anymore. It's not just my guild either. Others are feeling the crunch to get as many geared PT's as possible and shunning long time players who play other classes.

 

Does PT/Van have their weaknesses? Sure, but the sheer amount of damage they can push out with an extremely small rotation more than makes up for their shortcomings.

[TheBigBee]

Unfortunately it'll get a lot worse before it gets better as the next balance pass isn't slated to hit until 1.4 (ETA October/November). The over saturation of PT/Van has destroyed rateds, normal warzones, and even guilds are being affected. Mine in particular won't even play rateds, much less stay logged in, if our PT's aren't playing. What's left is a shell of a guild that barely logs in anymore. It's not just my guild either. Others are feeling the crunch to get as many geared PT's as possible and shunning long time players who play other classes.

 

Does PT/Van have their weaknesses? Sure, but the sheer amount of damage they can push out with an extremely small rotation more than makes up for their shortcomings.

 

yea i check to make sure we have healers and tank before rateds......NERF THEM

 

most teams have 1-2 PT you need 8 on a team

Edited July 31, 2012 by TheBigBee

[LordExozone]

Unfortunately it'll get a lot worse before it gets better as the next balance pass isn't slated to hit until 1.4 (ETA October/November). The over saturation of PT/Van has destroyed rateds, normal warzones, and even guilds are being affected. Mine in particular won't even play rateds, much less stay logged in, if our PT's aren't playing. What's left is a shell of a guild that barely logs in anymore. It's not just my guild either. Others are feeling the crunch to get as many geared PT's as possible and shunning long time players who play other classes.

 

Such a sad story.

[Jayshames]

What I worry about when I see this thread is that BW will just nerf the tree, and then Commando will be utterly screwed. Vanguard ( the TANK AC ) already does more damage than the Commando ( DPS AC? ), which is already backwards. Thanks to Vanguards survivability along with their pull, they seem to be much better at PvP than a Commando, which can be DPSed down quickly already.

 

Vanguard does indeed need a nerf, but the TREE does not. Commando Assault is a very balanced tree IMO ( maybe I'm biased? )

 

This is the problem with shared trees. They just don't work. I'd be okay with BW nerfing the Assault tree if they made the Gunnery tree viable for PvP again.

 

 

How is it backwards? just because they have a tank tree doesn't make them primarily tanks, I could say the same for commando that they are 'supposed' to be healers.

[ArchangelLBC]

lol a level 12 has how many talent points....I think you are full of it..... but if you are being truthful.....welll then your server should just be shut down because you all suck

 

In his defense a level 12 Vanguard has 3 skill points which is enough to make Ion Pulse (obtained at level 10) proc the DoT from Plasma Cell 100% of the time. With this a bolstered player could just run around Ion Pulsing people and rack up tons of damage from just the DoT.

 

It wouldn't be EFFECTIVE damage mind you, but at the end the score board would say they did 300k (only need to do like 30 Ion Pulses to get that damage, weave in Hammer Shots to conserve ammo).

[MobiusZero]

yea i check to make sure we have healers and tank before rateds......NERF THEM

 

most teams have 1-2 PT you need 8 on a team

 

Correction, most teams have at least 1-2 PT's. The fact that it's considered to basically be a requirement, in order to compete in RWZ, says volumes about the class.

 

I also love how PT's so readily point to Maras when people claim they are overpowered. News flash! You're both overpowered. Granted, I personally find Pyro PT's to be the most OP class in the game, but comparing yourself to a Mara, which also should be nerfed, is quite stupid, if you ask me.

[oredith]

Correction, most teams have at least 1-2 PT's. The fact that it's considered to basically be a requirement, in order to compete in RWZ, says volumes about the class.

 

I also love how PT's so readily point to Maras when people claim they are overpowered. News flash! You're both overpowered. Granted, I personally find Pyro PT's to be the most OP class in the game, but comparing yourself to a Mara, which also should be nerfed, is quite stupid, if you ask me.

if i had a lvl 50 sniper, i'd rather play that than a pt pyro..

 

i hate leveling though, so pyro it is.

[MobiusZero]

if i had a lvl 50 sniper, i'd rather play that than a pt pyro..

 

i hate leveling though, so pyro it is.

 

And I'd rather play my DPS operative. What does that prove?

[oredith]

And I'd rather play my DPS operative. What does that prove?

that both are more overpowered than a pt pyro.

 

a sniper is much higher burst, and much higher survival compared to a pyro.

 

you see a lot of pyro qq right now, but just wait, sniper QQ is coming, once there are more snipers around.

[MobiusZero]

that both are more overpowered than a pt pyro.

 

a sniper is much higher burst, and much higher survival compared to a pyro.

 

you see a lot of pyro qq right now, but just wait, sniper QQ is coming, once there are more snipers around.

 

Snipers, in my opinion, are at a good place right now, and are probably the most balanced class in the game. They are better than Sorc/Merc/Op, but worse than Mara/PT, and about equal to Jugg.

 

The best solution, is to nerf PT/Mara, and boost Sorc/Merc/Op.

 

Granted, if PT/Mara was overnerfed, Sorc/Merc/Op aren't improved enough, or Snipers see improvement, then yes, we could very well start seeing QQ threads about them - In which case it would be completely warranted and healthy to the game.

 

I love how people try to use the argument that "there will just be another OP class," to try and rationalize why it's ok for theirs to be OP. The fact is, there will always be an OP class, and there will always be QQ threads, as there should be! Just because the game can never achieve perfect balance, does not mean that BW should not strive to achieve the best possible. Sure, Snipers could very well be the next OP class, just like Concealment Ops used to be - But hopefully they will be less OP compared to how much Ops (and PT's) used to be! (And hopefully they will be more careful about over-nerfing, in the future, like they did to Sorcs/Mercs/Ops.)

 

So yes, I hope there will always be QQ threads. The moment they stop, means the players gave up and the game is dead. Or BW somehow achieved perfection, in the unlikely event that they manage to transcend to higher, non-corporeal form, thus granting them the ability to perfectly balance the game.

Edited July 31, 2012 by MobiusZero

[oredith]

follow me through on this rationale:

 

per you (and a lot of other people), PT / Mara are the most OP classes in game

snipers are the hard counters to PT / Mara (this really isn't up for argument, any well played sniper will rip apart an equally skilled PT / mara)

 

thus, snipers are the most OP class in game

 

of course, a sniper gets ripped apart by an op / assassin, but we'll ignore that, because no one wants to think in terms of paper rock scissors. rocks only want to think about how OP paper is, and scissors only want to think about how OP rocks are.

[TheronFett]

Correction, most teams have at least 1-2 PT's. The fact that it's considered to basically be a requirement, in order to compete in RWZ, says volumes about the class.

 

Yeah, it says that at least 75% of competitive RWZ teams are NOT Powertechs. It's also pretty much required that you have 1-3 healers on a RWZ team, so that makes healers OP as well by the same logic.

 

 

I'm hoping they nerf PT into the ground. When we continue to mop up the tears of baddies, what will the next excuse be? The sun was in your eyes? Mom calling you downstairs (upstairs for the 40 y/o basement dwellers) for dinner? Dog ate your keyboard?

 

What I'd really like to see is clothies given about 5K more health or armor. That way I can giggle while I set you on fire for just a little bit longer.

[MobiusZero]

per you (and a lot of other people), PT / Mara are the most OP classes in game

snipers are the hard counters to PT / Mara (this really isn't up for argument, any well played sniper will rip apart an equally skilled PT / mara)

 

I can, and will, argue this point.

 

For one, a sniper has a huge, blaring weakness - Walls! You LoS a sniper and what is he going to do? Chase you down? Ummm, no.

 

PT is the most mobile DPS class in the game. If you can't handle a sniper you are merely out-skilled.

 

thus, snipers are the most OP class in game

 

And everyone considers Snipers to be a necessary component of a RWZ team. Oh, wait! That's PT's!

 

I'm not going to deny that snipers aren't in a good place right now. But they are definitely not as powerful as PT or Mara.

 

of course, a sniper gets ripped apart by an op / assassin, but we'll ignore that, because no one wants to think in terms of paper rock scissors. rocks only want to think about how OP paper is, and scissors only want to think about how OP rocks are.

 

I certainly don't want to think in terms of rock paper scissors, because that's terrible balance. You should win because of skill, not because of what class you are playing.

 

And you keep speaking in terms of 1v1. Just as a sniper might be vulnerable to a stealth attack (granted they get plenty of skills to deal with it, even 1v1), they can also have the PT peel them and burn them to ashes in a matter of seconds (especially a squishy operative.). It's a team game, and in a team, PT's are more valuable, especially when paired with another PT. Also, keep in mind that the Operative will probably be ignored instead of peeled, since the healers can easily heal through it (Unlike a PT's damage.).

 

But whatever....keep playing your EZ mode class and lying about how you aren't OP. You are, and everyone knows it, even you (unless you reaaalllly suck!).

[Tyrias]

Yeah, it says that at least 75% of competitive RWZ teams are NOT Powertechs. It's also pretty much required that you have 1-3 healers on a RWZ team, so that makes healers OP as well by the same logic.

 

.

 

Actually, it doesn't. Is says that "as much as" (not "at least") 87.5% of ranked warzone teams are not Pyro Powertechs, but probably not more than 75%. It certainly doesn't say there will never be more than 2.

 

And your healer logic also falls flat. Potentially, 3 out of 8 AC's can perform a healing role, whereas only one AC can be a Pyro Powertech.

 

I'm hoping they nerf PT into the ground. When we continue to mop up the tears of baddies, what will the next excuse be? The sun was in your eyes? Mom calling you downstairs (upstairs for the 40 y/o basement dwellers) for dinner? Dog ate your keyboard?

 

What I'd really like to see is clothies given about 5K more health or armor. That way I can giggle while I set you on fire for just a little bit longer.

 

So what you're really saying, is that you do so well because literally everyone you play against is bad (or you are at least much better). Not only that, but you're entirely confident that your class could happily chew through another 5k health on any clothies, with relative assurity of success?

 

That doesn't sound in the slightest like an overpowered class or, for that matter, the enlarged ego that generally tends to follow in it's wake in people who genuinely believe they are good because they are just that skilled.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Tyrias