Its time to nerf Vanguards and Powertechs

[dtebuev]

ops can heal especially extremly well when heal specced => PT/vang can´t

jokes aside i guess he is referring to stun assisting wich is a sure kill and quite annoying when beeing the attacked one due to being unable to escape that death on your own. but every working assist train just chew through your HP like a hot knife through butter anyway, as TTK is way to low at the moment without any chance to handle it and stay alive.

 

Ops dps are useless as healers and you cannot compare a healer to a dps, that's just like comparing a striker and a goalkeeper they have different roles.

[Never_Hesitate]

So can a madness, annihilation, marksman, rage, so on.

 

My point?

 

Some people can make classes look good, and can make them play well.

 

This is all coming from someone that plays or has played all the classes, its people that make the classes good.

 

Saying Pyro can produce damage overall (in all dps in this game) is actually just a opinion and not a factual statement there Vimm.

 

I played a Pyro PT and a Lightning Sorc

 

And all I can say is:

- Both do about the same dmg (Over all)

- Pyro PT has heavy armor and def cds

- Sorc has light armor and no def cds

- Pyro PT does all his abilities instant

- Sorc has casttime on most of his abilities

- Pyro PT can just start doing burst dmg

- Sorc has to get his procs and then he can do massive burst

Edited July 30, 2012 by Never_Hesitate

[Veeius]

We are a very strong class. There is no denying that. We are also a class that provides virtually no utility other than our damage.

 

So.... you can't taunt? You don't have the single best peel in the game (shared w/ assassins)? You can't snare anything? you don't have a stun that allows you to continue doing MASSIVE damage (as opposed to my stun which STOPS my damage except for one tiny tiny tiny dot).

 

I don't mind the tools you have, your tool chest is similar to my jugg. However, one of my guildies is a pt, and in a duel he beat me down in the time it took smash to come off cooldown. In other words, I did about 8k damage (between smash, scream, & ravage), he did 19k, both of us have augemented wh gear.

 

Sorry, your damage needs a MASSIVE nerf.

 

If you want to nerf our damage then we simply need more survivability. I think most powertechs would be in favor of that.

 

Your survivability is on par with mine. Are you suggesting that my damage be buffed to moronically high levels?

[Fdzzaigl]

400k Damage happens sporadically, 700k damage means a healbot fight.

 

90% of the games are either over too quickly or too one-sided for any class to put out that amount of damage, regardless of skill and gear.

 

Therefore any statements like the OP's are void.

 

So.... you can't taunt? You don't have the single best peel in the game (shared w/ assassins)?

 

Tank Jugg aoe slow is a much better peel than harpoon, even Intimidating Roar is a much better peel.

 

Our survivability on par with yours? Please, make a list of defensive cooldowns you have and the ones we have.

And before we start that discussion again: defensive cooldowns are buttons you press that provide a self-buff, giving you damage reduction or increased defence (= conventional logic).

Then make a list of escape abilities as well, while you're at it.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[warultima]

Man I just start on my grind for WH on my PT, why nerf?

As proud owner of full WH Sorc and a full WH Marauder and a recruit operative lol I enjoy the facerollness of my PT.

But w/e the metrics say PT/Vanguard and Mara/sents are fine (maybe a little underpowered compare to sorcs still). We will never ever get nerfed. (no the ICD on chain railshot isnt that much unless you dont know how 2 play really)

 

Think about it, BW went power trip mode and lol super nerfed sorc and ever since they have lost almost half of their entire subscribers. You really think they will nerf Mara/Sent and PT/VG? when the presence of the 2 AC is approximately 800% to 1200% more popular compare to any other AC in this game?

 

No they wont... well at least not until they made this game F2P and go with the P2W model for the ultimate balance.

Edited July 30, 2012 by warultima

[vsalcedo]

I played a Pyro PT and a Lightning Sorc

 

And all I can say is:

- Both do about the same dmg (Over all)

- Pyro PT has heavy armor and def cds

- Sorc has light armor and no def cds

- Pyro PT does all his abilities instant

- Sorc has casttime on most of his abilities

- Pyro PT can just start doing burst dmg

- Sorc has to get his procs and then he can do massive burst

 

You also have more cc/mez/snares.

[TheGreatFrosty]

400k Damage happens sporadically, 700k damage means a healbot fight.

 

90% of the games are either over too quickly or too one-sided for any class to put out that amount of damage, regardless of skill and gear.

 

Therefore any statements like the OP's are void.

 

 

 

Tank Jugg aoe slow is a much better peel than harpoon, even Intimidating Roar is a much better peel.

 

Our survivability on par with yours? Please, make a list of defensive cooldowns you have and the ones we have.

And before we start that discussion again: defensive cooldowns are buttons you press that provide a self-buff, giving you damage reduction or increased defence (= conventional logic).

Then make a list of escape abilities as well, while you're at it.

 

If you aren't getting 600-700k regularly with a pyrotech, assuming you PVP often, there is something wrong with you as a player. It is simply easy for PTs to top the damage charts, and pretty much every server can testify to this.

[Jayshames]

Seriously, its time to bring this class into line. They are just ridiculous dps and survivability, pulling 400k in sub 50 wz's and 700k upwards geared in an average game at level 50 pvp. Every man and their dogs are rolling them and the place is swarming with them everywhere you look.

 

Please balance this class. QQ over.

 

I lol'd when you said survivability.

 

Honestly when are you people going to stop crying over nerfs.. it's just stupid now.

Just because your class isn't the best you feel the need to cry about another class needing nerfing because you maybe get man handled from someone in a match. Might aswell just remove all classes from the game except one, that's the only way we're going to see the end of you lot bubbling over it.

 

I played a Pyro PT and a Lightning Sorc

 

And all I can say is:

- Both do about the same dmg (Over all)

- Pyro PT has heavy armor and def cds

- Sorc has light armor and no def cds

- Pyro PT does all his abilities instant

- Sorc has casttime on most of his abilities

- Pyro PT can just start doing burst dmg

- Sorc has to get his procs and then he can do massive burst

Oh look, another biast oppinion. Ok i've got both characters i'll give a biast view aswell.

 

Sorc get force speed.

Sorc get fast CD on slow.

Sorc get bubble.

Sorc get knockback.

Sorc can good DPS output from range.

Sorc get self heals.

Sorc get more DoTs.

Sorc get cleanse.

Sorc get ally pull.

Sorc get longrange interrupt.

 

 

oh and Sorc get plenty of insta's, the only build you mainly get cast times is through Lightning, and for the cost of cast times you get great damage.

 

Happy?

Edited July 30, 2012 by Jayshames

[SaulSerpine]

I played a Pyro PT and a Lightning Sorc

 

And all I can say is:

- Both do about the same dmg (Over all)

- Pyro PT has heavy armor and def cds

- Sorc has light armor and no def cds

- Pyro PT does all his abilities instant

- Sorc has casttime on most of his abilities

- Pyro PT can just start doing burst dmg

- Sorc has to get his procs and then he can do massive burst

 

 

Look.... let s say full wh pt and sorc are both 19 000hp.

 

PT has 31% dmg reduction. Sorc should have around 21-22% i think, i am not sure.

 

=> PT has 24 890 effective health and sorc 22 990 effective health....so 1.9k health difference. how much is your bubble again ??? 2-3k i think no ?.......

 

Ok PT has a 25% def cd on 12s every 1.30-2.0 min (if specced).... You can apply your bubble every 15-20s (not sure) right ? you can heal too ?

 

A good sorc can face and survive a PT but if the sorc is dumb enough to let pt in range (4-10m) and not able to notice the TD on him, he just deserves to die.

 

I play a vanguard full wh and my arsenal merc is recruit-BM. I dont feel any huge difference between both. I kill lot of sorcs with my vanguard and i do the same with my arsenal. Just stay bad so every class are op.

[Sookster]

Sorc can't cleanse tech stuff, so your hair's still going to be on fire from a PT, and a single TD will consume your bubble.

[SaulSerpine]

Sorc can't cleanse tech stuff, so your hair's still going to be on fire from a PT, and a single TD will consume your bubble.

 

And ? I know they can't cleanse tech, but i dont give a fu... about that. Merc can cleanse tech effect but can't cleanse force effect. And so ? A single TD consume your bubble ? ho poor sorcerer, you would prefer to be hit by 3-4k dmg ?

 

 

....

[Roiz]

So this to warzones prove to me that 90% of the players are completely unable to play this game more so understand whats obvious and whats not and i am 100% positive that they can make no balance suggestions.

 

Everybody who posts a nerf thread should get a 3 day period ban from posting on the forums.

 

Agreed, let me finish leveling my recently rerolled vanguard and grind full WH, they can nerf it later. They could nerf PT/VG few months ago but but didn't do that, so now is not the correct time.

[Roiz]

Sorc get force speed.

Sorc get fast CD on slow.

Sorc get bubble.

Sorc get knockback.

Sorc can good DPS output from range.

Sorc get self heals.

Sorc get more DoTs.

Sorc get cleanse.

Sorc get ally pull.

Sorc get longrange interrupt.

 

Who need that crap, it is actually pretty much keybinds for useless abilities. As a Assault Vanguard I use 2 buttons and almost always top dps NUMBER ONE.

[Helig]

Just nerf the frakking ArP on HiB\RS like Acid Blade. Hate armour penetration with passion. Equalize it with Merc\Mando pyro by removing\redesigning the frakking Puncture. Edited July 30, 2012 by Helig

[Fdzzaigl]

If you aren't getting 600-700k regularly with a pyrotech, assuming you PVP often, there is something wrong with you as a player. It is simply easy for PTs to top the damage charts, and pretty much every server can testify to this.

 

I get 400k+ regularly, I get 600k+ like 1-2 times in a week, I've gotten 700k+ a handful of times (playing PuG's).

I almost always top the charts, I almost always outdo other DPS vanguards / PT's present, so no, it ain't me.

 

Vanguards do a lot of damage, yes, too much even, but then I am of the opinion that the general TTK is simply way too low across the board.

 

At least half the games I play end with the top damage being no more than 300k, a significant percentage of games end with the top damage being around 200k. In many games, the total amount of damage done by my team doesn't even come close to 700k.

So averaging 700k? No way, unless you play ranked with solely healbot teams vs healbot teams.

 

Who need that crap, it is actually pretty much keybinds for useless abilities. As a Assault Vanguard I use 2 buttons and almost always top dps NUMBER ONE.

 

Yeah, such crap they've got on them /rollseyes

 

This keybind crap, on the other hand, is just people being full of it. Rotation =/= difficulty.

 

I have a Vanguard, Gunslinger and Marauder, I switch between them regularly without trouble memorising not just the 25 or so buttons I constantly use on my VG, but also all the other rotations between those classes, without any trouble. Do not presume that vanguards are some sort of inferior human being not capable of memorizing a rotation.

 

Many people here are veteran MMO players, they've memorized different rotations in a multitude of games, it takes a couple of hours, no more.

 

The difficulty is in using the tools and options you're given to the best effect. The difference between a good player and a bad is in not using that tool just as another "oh ****" button, but planning ahead, using it to capture objectives, peel from healers, counter certain abilities etc.

 

If you think I should be nerfed because I'm too retarded to press more buttons, then for the love of god, GIVE me more buttons, I'm dying to have more tools to my disposal than just harpoon, taunts and damage, really, I am.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Roiz]

So can a madness, annihilation, marksman, rage, so on.

 

My point?

 

Some people can make classes look good, and can make them play well.

Madness doesn't have a burst and is stationary spec with heavy rely on chaining Telekinetic throw.

Annigilation use way too much buttons and limited to 4 meters range.

Marksman is stationary, relies on long casting and channeling and do white damage only.

Rage doesn't have descent single target burst and limited to 4 meters.

 

Pyro has huge burst on the move from the distance with automatic autoslow and needs very few buttons. PYRO ROCKS, I would not play anything else than my VG in warzones until BW change balance a lot.

[Phalange]

What I worry about when I see this thread is that BW will just nerf the tree, and then Commando will be utterly screwed. Vanguard ( the TANK AC ) already does more damage than the Commando ( DPS AC? ), which is already backwards. Thanks to Vanguards survivability along with their pull, they seem to be much better at PvP than a Commando, which can be DPSed down quickly already.

 

Vanguard does indeed need a nerf, but the TREE does not. Commando Assault is a very balanced tree IMO ( maybe I'm biased? )

 

This is the problem with shared trees. They just don't work. I'd be okay with BW nerfing the Assault tree if they made the Gunnery tree viable for PvP again.

[Revan-the-knight]

Just Buff Commando/mercenary and Operative/Scoundrel DPS and all will be well, Powertechs and vanguards are fine

[Jayshames]

Who need that crap, it is actually pretty much keybinds for useless abilities. As a Assault Vanguard I use 2 buttons and almost always top dps NUMBER ONE.

 

Don't post anymore please.

 

Just Buff Commando/mercenary and Operative/Scoundrel DPS and all will be well, Powertechs and vanguards are fine

 

That + do something to sort Sent/Marauder CDs and PvP will be fine.

No class right now needs a 'nerf' only tweaks.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Jayshames

[TonyDragonflame]

So averaging 700k? No way, unless you play ranked with solely healbot teams vs healbot teams.

 

http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/1207/f5/f99755b56ce4.jpg

 

RWZ

1st Pyro - 1.14 Million damage

2st Pyro - 768K damage

 

Compared, good maras provide only 570K, 540K damage - in 2 times less than one Pyro.

 

Oh wait, powertechs are not OP, its maras OP

Edited July 30, 2012 by TonyDragonflame

[Huggsnotdruggs]

If I have a dedicated healer I'm invincble.

 

Duh??

Edited July 30, 2012 by Huggsnotdruggs

[Huggsnotdruggs]

What I worry about when I see this thread is that BW will just nerf the tree, and then Commando will be utterly screwed. Vanguard ( the TANK AC ) already does more damage than the Commando ( DPS AC? ), which is already backwards. Thanks to Vanguards survivability along with their pull, they seem to be much better at PvP than a Commando, which can be DPSed down quickly already.

 

Vanguard does indeed need a nerf, but the TREE does not. Commando Assault is a very balanced tree IMO ( maybe I'm biased? )

 

This is the problem with shared trees. They just don't work. I'd be okay with BW nerfing the Assault tree if they made the Gunnery tree viable for PvP again.

 

LOL you call commando a dps ac and vanguard a tank ac. Why not commando a healing ac and vanguard a dps ac? thats just as true as your statement.

[Sookster]

Sometimes when you get into huttball and the team gets 6 goals in a hurry and hardly anyone surpasses 100K damage... well I was the only one on my team to pass 100K damage (126K) while the assault vanguard on the other team did 550K damage (rest of their team did less than 100K). Holy mother of god, that guy was ripping us apart left and right but we won. Edited July 30, 2012 by Sookster

[Cindarstorm]

PT damage is high, yes... are they breaking the game or OP? I personally don't think so (But I don't play rateds much as I'm in a very small guild).

 

I feel like the main problem with the class is that it's burn rotation is just too easy, such that almost anyone can put out the numbers that it takes a skilled player to produce on other classes.

[Roiz]

PT damage is high, yes... are they breaking the game or OP? I personally don't think so (But I don't play rateds much as I'm in a very small guild).

 

I feel like the main problem with the class is that it's burn rotation is just too easy, such that almost anyone can put out the numbers that it takes a skilled player to produce on other classes.

 

Rotation difficulty is the same as other classes. I have all classes except operative and see no difference. PT are strong because have all their attacks instant on the move and ranged with high burst. You can kite and dps at the same time. If you start kiting on sorc or commando your dps is going down drastically always.