Its time to nerf Vanguards and Powertechs

[TheronFett]

This AGAIN?

[Jetflair]

Other classes can dish it out, but they can't take it as good as vanguard/powertech. I have a vanguard and even I will admit my durability is overboard given the damage I can do. It takes 4 people to take me down in the time it takes 1 person to solo another. If you don't have at least 3 peoplke focusing me you might as well give up. I have no problems taking on 2 people and winning. If I have a dedicated healer I'm invincble. Throw your whole team at me it won't matter (of course they'll go for healer, but that's not the point). Not sure what shadow tanks everyone else has been fighting, but they are nowhere near as durable as my vanguard. I was surprised that they got nerfed to bring them in line with guardian and vanguard. LOL. Pretty funny stuff. Guy in this thread whinning about having 1 defensive CD as powertech. We don;t need any CDs. Base mitigation is better than any assassin or jugg CDs. They are only super tanks for a few secs every minute or two while vg/pt are super tanks 100% of the time and ultra tanks every minute or two.

 

Vanguards tanks have pretty good dps but their damage migtation is not best in the game. Its good but not best what is. That few seconds of super tankin with juggs/guardians makes huge difference when damage spikes up suddenly.

 

All the tanks classeshave bit different weaknesses and strengths. It really depends on situation and who you are against which is superior. With good healing immortality is not a big feat.

[Twor]

Ah right, someone got killed by a pyro/assault, took a look at the scoreboard and we get another beautiful thread like this.

 

At some other poster, you can break down the basic damage abilities used in PvP of any class to 5 or 6 skills. Comparing keybind amounts always ended poorly for those who thought pyros just use 5 or 6 buttons sry.

 

Something most people just don't want to have true.

[Eszi]

damage:

http://i.imgur.com/IffzK.png

 

ui:

http://i.imgur.com/6zLoy.jpg

 

totally not op

[Zorcha]

Ah right, someone got killed by a pyro/assault, took a look at the scoreboard and we get another beautiful thread like this.

 

Heavy Armor

Mitigation Cooldown

Self Heal cooldown

AOE + Single Taunts

25% crit boost cooldown

Pull enemy into fires/to your rocket punch

90% armor penetration if specced it, definitely 60% that everyone takes

 

Basically its incendary missile from range to burn, Rail Shot 6k, unload, pull to you, rocket punch 4k, Rail Shot 6k. Dead

 

Repeat.

 

Yes this needs to be fixed. When you come across the teams of 2 heals 4 pyros 2 sents, you will be back here.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Zorcha

[Rogean]

There are counters to the other classes that can put out damage.

 

Snipers are turrets and have to channel everything depending on spec. They can't move and can be line of sighted.

 

Sentinels have to be up in your face to do their damage, and most of the time can be kited by good players (Combat spec being more difficult to kite), most of their damage has to be built up and can be interrupted (Watchman dots can be cleansed, Combat can be cc'd/kited during armor penetration) which negates top damage. A powertech getting interrupted can usually pick up right where they left off with little to no loss of damage.

 

Pyrotech Powertechs can do all their damage from 10 meters without any channeling (on the move). They have multiple stuns. They have a snare built in to their stance cell which can trigger off any attack. Their rotation is very simple and does not get affected as much by interruptions. All of this without even getting into how Rail Shot works and it's free use on proc, armor penetration, etc.

 

The class is so easy mode with huge damage that mediocre pyrotechs are outdamaging the best of other classes, and good pyrotechs are slaughtering everything they target before they even know what hit them. This has been happening since 1.2 and frankly I'm surprised there aren't even more threads about this. It's getting more notice lately because the players that rolled Powertechs 1-2 months ago are now fully geared and we're starting to see several on the same team, because why bring anything else?

[Twor]

Heavy Armor

Mitigation Cooldown

Self Heal cooldown

AOE + Single Taunts

25% crit boost cooldown

Pull enemy into fires/to your rocket punch

90% armor penetration if specced it, definitely 60% that everyone takes

 

Basically its incendary missile from range to burn, Rail Shot 6k, unload, pull to you, rocket punch 4k, Rail Shot 6k. Dead

 

Repeat.

 

Yes this needs to be fixed. When you come across the teams of 2 heals 4 pyros 2 sents, you will be back here.

 

Yes all those pyros using unload in their rotation. Followed by all those 6k railshots and 4k rocket punches. Got negative expertise? Not worth my time. /ignore.

 

Just some basics you should look up:

White damage, how its calculated and what defenses its checked against. (hint: railshot is white damage)

Cooldowns, what they are and what they do (like grapple which has quite a long one...).

Math in general so you won't just throw around numbers. (hint: we don't have a 100% crit chance even with CDs pulled).

Edited June 28, 2012 by Twor

[HeVans_]

damage:

http://i.imgur.com/IffzK.png

 

ui:

http://i.imgur.com/6zLoy.jpg

 

totally not op

 

ahahahhaahhahhaha gosia i love you.

 

Seriously though, make flameburst NOT instant cast and bring it inline with merc/commando pyros (who just feel gimped right now). Either that or put a small cooldown on flameburst, for gods sake proccing rail shots every 6 seconds for sure is retarded. As a merc/commando you have to hope and pray that your unload procs it, and if it doesn't you are more than likely dead.

Edited June 28, 2012 by HeVans_

[Zorcha]

Just some basics you should look up:

White damage, how its calculated and what defenses its checked against. (hint: railshot is white damage)

Cooldowns, what they are and what they do (like grapple which has quite a long one...).

Math in general so you won't just throw around numbers. (hint: we don't have a 100% crit chance even with CDs pulled).

 

hint: white damage against 90% armor pen. Do the math yourself.

And im not pulling random numbers out, this is what my friend hits regularly. He averages 700k a wz. He even agrees its totally overpowered class right now and hates the fact that everyone is rolling them as hes played it from day 1.

[Technohic]

Nerd Marauders/Sentinals to.

 

Best post in thread. And not for what you were TRYING to say; but for what was actually said.

 

Oh and Tactics FTW!

Edited June 28, 2012 by Technohic

[Chemic_al]

There are counters to the other classes that can put out damage.

 

Snipers are turrets and have to channel everything depending on spec. They can't move and can be line of sighted.

 

Sentinels have to be up in your face to do their damage, and most of the time can be kited by good players (Combat spec being more difficult to kite), most of their damage has to be built up and can be interrupted (Watchman dots can be cleansed, Combat can be cc'd/kited during armor penetration) which negates top damage. A powertech getting interrupted can usually pick up right where they left off with little to no loss of damage.

 

Pyrotech Powertechs can do all their damage from 10 meters without any channeling (on the move). They have multiple stuns. They have a snare built in to their stance cell which can trigger off any attack. Their rotation is very simple and does not get affected as much by interruptions. All of this without even getting into how Rail Shot works and it's free use on proc, armor penetration, etc.

 

The class is so easy mode with huge damage that mediocre pyrotechs are outdamaging the best of other classes, and good pyrotechs are slaughtering everything they target before they even know what hit them. This has been happening since 1.2 and frankly I'm surprised there aren't even more threads about this. It's getting more notice lately because the players that rolled Powertechs 1-2 months ago are now fully geared and we're starting to see several on the same team, because why bring anything else?

 

Yeah, it's depressing fighting a vanguard as a dps sorc. Perhaps if I'm on full health and they are under 25% I might come out of it, with more than 50% of my health left.

[TheronFett]

Oh, the tears continue to rain.

 

My original class selection was Pyro spec BH. I got into early access and hit 50 on official launch day. There until about the end of January, I rarely ever saw another Powertech in a warzone. Everyone was rolling Merc because they thought 2 guns looked cool. There's been QQ on the forums about this class ever since we started setting people on fire. Fast forward. I have 5 characters, 4 of which are L50. 3 of them War Hero. I've been around. Been there, done that. There is no "hard" class to play in this game. There is no "ez-mode" rotation. You are either able to adjust your play style to the class you're playing or you aren't. The simple FACT is, most PvPers are just bad. There's no getting around it.

 

The VG/PT class is powerful because it's highly mobile. Abilities are instant cast and most can be done on the move. In a game where positioning is key, it allows this class to constantly put out damage, and be effective from any range. Those are the strengths. The DPS spec is very low on defense. Don't give me this heavy armor and mitigation crap, because it's simply not true. Trooper/BH has zero escape ability and no meaningful stun or defensive cooldown. Those are the weaknesses. This has all been covered ad nauseum. If you can't shut down this spec by exploiting its weaknesses, then that's on you.

Edited June 28, 2012 by TheronFett

[StarCard]

I'm sure every class can post a photo of 700k damage. All I know is I have only done it once after the transfers and the only reason was it was a voidstar and the enemy team had 4 healers. Guess what though, a sentinel also did 700k.

 

Then your a horribad pyro.. serious numbers tho.. the pyro in our guild gets 400k all the time, 500k alot, 600k sometimes, 700k its happened a few times

[StarCard]

Oh, the tears continue to rain.

 

My original class selection was Pyro spec BH. I got into early access and hit 50 on official launch day. There until about the end of January, I rarely ever saw another Powertech in a warzone. Everyone was rolling Merc because they thought 2 guns looked cool. There's been QQ on the forums about this class ever since we started setting people on fire. Fast forward. I have 5 characters, 4 of which are L50. 3 of them War Hero. I've been around. Been there, done that. There is no "hard" class to play in this game. There is no "ez-mode" rotation. You are either able to adjust your play style to the class you're playing or you aren't. The simple FACT is, most PvPers are just bad. There's no getting around it.

 

The VG/PT class is powerful because it's highly mobile. Abilities are instant cast and most can be done on the move. In a game where positioning is key, it allows this class to constantly put out damage, and be effective from any range. Those are the strengths. The DPS spec is very low on defense. Don't give me this heavy armor and mitigation crap, because it's simply not true. Trooper/BH has zero escape ability and no meaningful stun or defensive cooldown. Those are the weaknesses. This has all been covered ad nauseum. If you can't shut down this spec by exploiting its weaknesses, then that's on you.

 

1 pyro vs. 2 tankassins ='ed 1 almost dead sin another missing 25% hp

full warhero sin almost died

3/4 wh sin lost 25% hp

pyro??? who know what gear he/she had... prob bm lolz!!

Edited June 28, 2012 by StarCard

[Mrunlimited]

It's not a question to if they will get nerfed, its more of a when.. Anyone that wants to argue other wise play's a powertech .. Your going to get nerfed, because you are the highest burst class in the game. I wont even speak on its mobility.

 

And god forbid running into powertech's that throw there taunt's on cooldown...

[Chemic_al]

Oh, the tears continue to rain.

 

My original class selection was Pyro spec BH.

 

The VG/PT class is powerful because it's highly mobile. Abilities are instant cast and most can be done on the move. In a game where positioning is key, it allows this class to constantly put out damage, and be effective from any range. Those are the strengths. The DPS spec is very low on defense. Don't give me this heavy armor and mitigation crap, because it's simply not true. Trooper/BH has zero escape ability and no meaningful stun or defensive cooldown. Those are the weaknesses. This has all been covered ad nauseum. If you can't shut down this spec by exploiting its weaknesses, then that's on you.

 

Oh and the one defending his OP class continues to defend it, knowing full well they are OP.

 

Really, and what would they be? No stun.. or defesnsive cooldown? Hmm let me see Energy Shield can be specced to remove snares, and reduces damage by 25%. Longest knockback in the game. And there's nothing to interupt... so not much to exploit really.

 

And it seems to me PTs are doing just fine without a stun, they have grapple, which has plenty of utlity.

 

Yes, lots to exploit there

Edited June 28, 2012 by Chemic_al

[Retro_Chrome]

hint: white damage against 90% armor pen. Do the math yourself.

And im not pulling random numbers out, this is what my friend hits regularly. He averages 700k a wz. He even agrees its totally overpowered class right now and hates the fact that everyone is rolling them as hes played it from day 1.

if your friend regulary hits 700k per warzone then you are fighting really really bad teams, or super healer heavy teams where no one dies regardless of damage. in an actual even foght with equal skillwarzones (rated) there is no way a vanguard is hitting those numbers, also if your stockstrike and High Impact Bolt are hitting for 4k and 6 k regularly after 1.3 please i want a screen shot of there gear becuase i will copy the heck out of it, my gear is completely min maxed full war hero gear and my highest hit after 1.3 is a HIB for around 4400(sorry bout that Sorcs) again this is equal gear targets and approx equal skill. when my ranked team went to bed i did hit a fresh 50 for 4800 and one 5k crit, but those are rare without adrenals/clicky relics

 

learn to find competition

[Silwyth]

Oh and the one defending his OP class continues to defend it, knowing full well they are OP.

 

Really, and what would they be? No stun.. or defesnsive cooldown? Hmm let me see Energy Shield can be specced to remove snares, and reduces damage by 25%. Longest knockback in the game. And there's nothing to interupt... so not much to exploit really.

 

And it seems to me PTs are doing just fine without a stun, they have grapple, which has plenty of utlity.

 

Yes, lots to exploit there

 

Just stop while you are behind. Seriously.

[TheronFett]

Longest knockback in the game.

 

So. Much. Fail.

 

Commando/Merc has a knockback, PT/Vanguard does not. Your tears have blinded you to what class you're even playing against. If you're whining about the knockback too, you must be melee and wanting to nerf the very class that was designed to be your counter.

Edited June 28, 2012 by TheronFett

[Twor]

Quote: Originally Posted by Zorcha View Post

hint: white damage against 90% armor pen. Do the math yourself.

And im not pulling random numbers out, this is what my friend hits regularly. He averages 700k a wz. He even agrees its totally overpowered class right now and hates the fact that everyone is rolling them as hes played it from day 1.

 

 

SInce you didn't follow my advice here it is for you:

White damage is subject to ALL defense checks. It can be shielded, dodged, deflected etc. Armor penetration is applied AFTER those checks have been passed. (Note, does not apply to crits). Since it is white damage the accuracy rolled for it is usually below 100%.

 

For reference on accuracy:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/f4cec873-51d0-48d1-8f73-488a8402e1ee

 

Again you demonstrated your complete lack of understanding even the simplest PvP basics.

And since I am such anice guy so you don't look completely clueless the next time you cry nerf because you have been killed by a pyro:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=451651

 

So you learn about rotations and what abilities are used. Because again you didn't even bother to research that.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Twor

[Retro_Chrome]

Oh and the one defending his OP class continues to defend it, knowing full well they are OP.

 

Really, and what would they be? No stun.. or defesnsive cooldown? Hmm let me see Energy Shield can be specced to remove snares, and reduces damage by 25%. Longest knockback in the game. And there's nothing to interupt... so not much to exploit really.

 

And it seems to me PTs are doing just fine without a stun, they have grapple, which has plenty of utlity.

 

Yes, lots to exploit there

 

i reccommend you roll a power tech up to 50, heck even up to 20, while a vanguard/pt will mature early since they get alot of primary abilities upfront you cna a decent feel for the class, and really see what they can and cannot do.

 

what i am really curious about is where on earth do you geta knockback from, i have played a vanguard since beta and never have i ever seen a knockback skill,

 

i believe you are the only one to have found the dual AC class with enough points to cover 4 trees so im guessing this vanguard is a 8 Shield 6 tactics 31 assault and 12 gunnery spec?

 

so you can make informed posts in the future i reccommend dueling as many vanguards as possible that are equal gear to you, this way you can learn how to counter them, and perhaps prevent you from posting misinformation here so we can discuss what is really important: nerfing operatives:)

 

kidding about operatives in case you missed it

[Zastio]

I play a Vanguard as well and he is lvl 43. The one of my 8 toons I have been working on and right now they are the most OP class in the game and really have been since day one. If you think otherwise stop lieing to yourself.

 

When the game first launched I laughed at first thinking that bioware/EA made ranged classes op to prevent so many people rolling jedi/sith classes at first. Now I see this must be that they just hate jedi/sith. I thought maybe after some time they would fix them, naw. I play jedi/sith classes pretty good but hey ranged classes are just more op.

 

Yesterday I was in a wz and did 430k top damage with 52 kills 2 deaths with some protection points. I was averaging around 320k per match. I hate that this class is op and I am going to use and abuse it untill it gets nerfed. I am going to shoot for 500k total damage befor he hits 50. Then at 50 I am going to lawl around in recruit gear and rip people apart. Why? Because this class can and you wont stop me.

[TheGreatFrosty]

Incoming predictable "ERRR NO WE'RE NOT OP JUST GET THE WHOLET EAM ON US THEN WE DIE, SOB ALANCED"

 

PT have needed a nerf for such a long time. But expect to find the OP spec defenders here on the forums in mass. When people know their position of power is threatened, they'll flock to these threads to talk about their light armour etc.

[Twor]

Incoming predictable "ERRR NO WE'RE NOT OP JUST GET THE WHOLET EAM ON US THEN WE DIE, SOB ALANCED"

 

PT have needed a nerf for such a long time. But expect to find the OP spec defenders here on the forums in mass. When people know their position of power is threatened, they'll flock to these threads to talk about their light armour etc.

 

Nope we just enjoy your complete lack of arguments, as demonstrated by your post.

[Mrunlimited]

Nope we just enjoy your complete lack of arguments, as demonstrated by your post.

 

so since you think powertechs are "ok".. tell me why power techs SHOULD NOT be nerfed..

 

take your time please.