Are SWTOR players spoiled? (Came from FF XI instead of WOW)

[JCStephan]

Before I start, I want it clear that everyone has the right to their own opinions and I don't plan to change anyone's mind with this post............ but.

 

I honestly think much of what is here in SWTOR is great.

 

My first MMO was FF XI and in that game you really had to earn EVERYTHING and it was nearly impossible to play without grouping. Heck, even the most trivial of things like taxi's and quick travel were things not every player could get until like level 15 or higher. Here is just a few things that were different.

 

1) Crafting: if you had the material and if the item was highlighted to gain exp, you could always get at least some exp for your trouble. Heck you could have your support gather the items as you had fun. In FFXI you had to get everything yourself, and if the item was from a far away land, good luck to you. EXP was difficult to come by and even if you crafted well, there was no guarantee that you would get any exp for it.

 

2) Taxi's: You needed a license to even use the "taxi" and even then you had to earn it through a quest. Here you just need to visit the area, and sometimes you don't even need to do that.

 

3)Leveling: SOOOOOO many choices here, do you like the story (which is awesome), or do you want to pvp? Heck you can even space combat if you like (I actually enjoy it, but I really liked 3d shooters of the 16 bit era). In FFXI you MUST group if you want a good amount of exp and that takes hours to set up, fight and the force help you even someone has to leave 1 hour into it . I like that social options are a choice not a requirement.

 

4) Dying: In this game you die, no big deal. You may have to wait 5 seconds to re-spawn (then longer after the first time) and your armor might need to be fixed, but that is it. In my old mmo, you lost exp, heck you could level down. Also, here everyone can revive you, but only healers and support (and sometimes tanks) can in the later.

 

5) Convenience for most fights and pvp: Flashpoints, pvp insta-pop, fleet pass, and soon auto-grouping? If they made it more convenient you would get money just for being there, sometimes you are. In FFXI, you have to travel there (sometimes by foot not taxi), go through hordes of bad guys, some you can't even beat so you gotta sneak by them, and the force help you if you or any of your teammates gets aggro by an invisible spell stopping early.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I loved FFXI when I played it, but it was a real pain sometimes and I had to stop because it took too much of my time. I can play SWTOR because I can start and stop almost whenever I please, so many ways to play and enjoy the game, and I don't need to lose my life to be decent at it. (I will NEVER make the claim I am even close to the best). I appreciate the efforts that were taken to make this game and it might not be perfect, but it is great game in it's own right.

[ZirusZero]

I stand with you as well because I am also an Eastern MMO veteran. They expect handouts, but we know better because we actually tried hard to get to where our characters were at.

[xandax]

I don't see where the 'Are SWTOR players spoiled' question comes into the blog piece?

 

Do you claim SWTOR players are spoiled because other games are more grindy?

Edited June 21, 2012 by xandax

[jmnormand]

WoWs success kinda spoiled its whole player base, particularly now after the near decade of development time. Many do not seem to understand a that no new mmo can live up to that amount of content or polish, in the first 2-3 years. If they had been around in the early 2000s they would be quite impressed with every AAA title being released these days. All of them SWTOR, RIFT, Tera, are light years ahead of eq, wow and others at their release...

 

Another issue is the anti-grind campaign. people complain about the hours of grinding in the old games. Then complain how after hours of playing in the new game they are max level and bored. The fail to realize it is not financially possible to create a new game with enough content to appease those whose only goal is to rush to max level, while still having a game with little grind...

Edited June 21, 2012 by jmnormand

[Isaiahsdad]

I stand with you as well because I am also an Eastern MMO veteran. They expect handouts, but we know better because we actually tried hard to get to where our characters were at.

 

 

Yet you still play this game? Just because you are from and " eastern mmo " doesn't mean anything. Basically, if you enjoy the game then play it, if not, then leave.

[Galbatorrix]

That sounds a lot like the original EQ. Heck, I'd some times use an entire 3 hour play session in that game doing nothing but traveling to a new area that I wanted to play in.

[Illbleed]

I'm also from FFXI Gilgamesh server, where you had to work to get your "epic loot" I remember camping Charybdis for 5 hours to get my joyuese and actually having to group to level. I've learned that after WoW yes players are spoiled and think the game should hand them everything, I like having to work for my loot.

[ZirusZero]

Yet you still play this game? Just because you are from and " eastern mmo " doesn't mean anything. Basically, if you enjoy the game then play it, if not, then leave.

 

I fully enjoy the game and actually enjoy the game better than my last. My complaint is on the community.

[jmnormand]

That sounds a lot like the original EQ. Heck, I'd some times use an entire 3 hour play session in that game doing nothing but traveling to a new area that I wanted to play in.

 

the lowbie run from freeport to qeynos was like a mini game all in itself.

[Illbleed]

Yet you still play this game? Just because you are from and " eastern mmo " doesn't mean anything. Basically, if you enjoy the game then play it, if not, then leave.

 

I think it only took me barely a half attempt to read his post to understand he's not dissing the game, only saying yes the players tend to act spoiled and expect handouts. So, your little rage shows the exact mindset we're talking about and shows you know what to OP is saying is true.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Illbleed

[ChaosKirin]

In short: FFXI is a horrible game. No game should be FFXI.

 

And when Sqeenix tried to do the same thing with FFXIV, no one bought it, and they actually stopped selling it.

 

So there's your answer.

[Isaiahsdad]

I think it only took me the half attempt to read his post to understand he's not dissing the game, only saying yes the players tend to act spoiled and expect handouts. So, your little rage shows the exact mindset we're talking about and shows you know what to OP is saying is true.

 

 

I'll admit it, I like things being easy. I don't want to spend a whole play time session grinding, play styles are different in everyone. But making fun or looking down your nose at people who like a different playstyle then yourselves is selfish, childish and sometimes making for a rotten community. You think everyone wants to hear about how bad and hard it was back in the day?

[Valkirus]

Well....while some players like to feel like they are "earning" thier experences in a MMO, a game company needs to know what the " majority " of thier player base wants. Afterall, they made the game to make money, not please only the hardcore elitist. A smart MMO company will create content which appeals to both crowds.

[Sagimore]

I think it only took me barely a half attempt to read his post to understand he's not dissing the game, only saying yes the players tend to act spoiled and expect handouts. So, your little rage shows the exact mindset we're talking about and shows you know what to OP is saying is true.

 

This.

[RathusPendragon]

My first MMO was UO (feb. 98) and it seems everything that came after is easier... even UO itself. Although i long for the "good ol' days" I've grown use to easy mode. I wish I wasn't a carebear, but time and age has made me such. Although I refuse to complain about something being hard, unfair, or a waste of time. I may of become a carebear, but i refuse to be a whining nerf-herder!

[OmegaJinjo]

That sounds a lot like the original EQ. Heck, I'd some times use an entire 3 hour play session in that game doing nothing but traveling to a new area that I wanted to play in.

 

Yes, FF11 was based off original EQ, as they started development around 1999/2000. Many of those awesome elements were taken into FF11.

 

I played FF11 from Beta to 2009. Yes, it's a grindfest. I remember our first Kirin kill (long before you could zerg him in seconds, and had to kite him around the room), it took us 5 hours to kill him, he used astral flow on us twice. And the king camps for hours spamming instant ranged abilities, fun times. I would still be playing, but college ended and real world took away all the time needed to do anything in it. Although, as I understand it, it's much much faster and friendly on leveling and endgame gearing now.

Edited June 21, 2012 by OmegaJinjo

[MentalCase]

Man... I remember playing FFXI when it was on PS2 I loved that game. I really did enjoy how it took some effort to get anywhere. It wasn't easy at all imo... the only reason I stopped playing it was because I didn't have time anymore. My only major complaint was the who HUD setup and control system. Yuck. FFXI is what got me into MMOs. By the time I had time to play again, it was dead and I switched to WoW.

[LandisKan]

I'm also from FFXI Gilgamesh server, where you had to work to get your "epic loot" I remember camping Charybdis for 5 hours to get my joyuese and actually having to group to level. I've learned that after WoW yes players are spoiled and think the game should hand them everything, I like having to work for my loot.

 

This reminds me of spending a week camping out trying to get the shining metallic robes for my rogue epic in EQ... I hated the arch magus... I was lucky and got it in a week My friend didn't get it for months.

[Scryer]

WoW was similarly hard in vanilla, not as difficult as FF XI but not as easy as it is now.

 

They only reason it got easier is because "the majority" of people on the forums complained about the difficulty. While in reality, the real majority didn't mind and actually enjoyed the challenge, myself included. But only a very small vocal minority posts on the forums and Blizzard in all their wisdom decided to listen to them.

 

Thanks to them, BioWare got it's ideas for how the game should be run from the new, easier WoW.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Scryer

[xandax]

WoW was similarly hard in vanilla, not as difficult as FF XI but not as easy as it is now.

 

They only reason it got easier is because "the majority" of people on the forums complained about the difficulty. While in reality, the real majority didn't mind and actually enjoyed the challenge, myself included. But only a very small vocal minority posts on the forums and Blizzard in all their wisdom decided to listen to them.

 

Thanks to them, BioWare got it's ideas for how the game should be run from the new, easier WoW.

 

I always see this argument but nothing to back it up with:

 

A) How do you know it was just the very small vocal minority?

B) How to do you know how many of the silent part wasn't in agreement with the vocal part?

C) How do you know who Blizzard listened to, even if they didn't listen to 'you'?

 

Why do people always equate a difference between the forum goers and the non-forum goers?

There's no way to know whether the people NOT posting are happy or unhappy with the state of things or state of changes.

Some might find it pointless to complain on the forum, but complains to - say friends or guild members in-game or out. They might complain in feedback tickets. And so on....

 

The 'all those people we don't hear from agree with me' argument is getting pretty overused and it's just not possible to back up.

Edited June 21, 2012 by xandax

[Isaiahsdad]

WoW was similarly hard in vanilla, not as difficult as FF XI but not as easy as it is now.

 

They only reason it got easier is because "the majority" of people on the forums complained about the difficulty. While in reality, the real majority didn't mind and actually enjoyed the challenge, myself included. But only a very small vocal minority posts on the forums and Blizzard in all their wisdom decided to listen to them.

 

Thanks to them, BioWare got it's ideas for how the game should be run from the new, easier WoW.

 

 

WoWs biggest sub spike was in WotLk.

[Photoshop]

The last MMO I played seriously was EQ1.

 

I love how fast you can level in this game and that most of the "grind" is doing quests and not killing the same monsters over and over.

 

What I dont like is not having 30+ man guild raids to take down a single boss. Not having unique armor and weapons that only a couple people have, in swtor everyone seems to be wearing the same stuff.

[CygnusMX]

Now don't get me wrong, I loved FFXI when I played it, but it was a real pain sometimes and I had to stop because it took too much of my time. I can play SWTOR because I can start and stop almost whenever I please, so many ways to play and enjoy the game, and I don't need to lose my life to be decent at it. (I will NEVER make the claim I am even close to the best). I appreciate the efforts that were taken to make this game and it might not be perfect, but it is great game in it's own right.

 

I'm not sure about spoiled.

But gameing has changed and If I'm right people who played EQ back in the day may not have time like they used to, to grind and be penalized at every turn.

Alot of gamers are adults now with real life responsabilities, and dont have time for needless time sink content that is basicaly in game as a time sink , a bussiness plan (Time is money), not because it was enjoyable, it was all about money and time.

People aren't or shouldnt have to tolerate that design anymore,Theres an over 40 thread on the forums proof that mmo's arent about teenagers who can lock the door for hours and hours and pop out for a hot pocket and dissapear another 5 hours.

Not a jab at teenagers either,because alot of those adults are now playing SWtor with their own teenagers lol.

[xandax]

<snip>

Alot of gamers are adults now with real life responsabilities, and dont have time for needless time sink content that is basicaly in game as a time sink , a bussiness plan (Time is money), not because it was enjoyable, it was all about money and time.

<snip>.

Not to mention that over the last decade we properly also became much smarter and saw much of the time-sinks for what they were and that they weren't actually all that fun when not viewed in a nostalgic light.

[Holden_Dissent]

Well....while some players like to feel like they are "earning" thier experences in a MMO, a game company needs to know what the " majority " of thier player base wants. Afterall, they made the game to make money, not please only the hardcore elitist. A smart MMO company will create content which appeals to both crowds.

 

I think Archage is trying to do that.