Pls do not buff threat generation in 1.3

[Macetheace]

I'm really liking the effecitveness of threat right now and i fear increasing it as planned will making tanking too easy and less fun. I like that i have to maximise my dps as a tank and cleverly use my abilities to maintain threat./ what i'm seeing in the game so far works so much better unlike WoW where they buffed threat gen to the extent no skill was required any more by tanks.

 

Don't listen to the moaners. Maybe it's annoying if you play the game just to get items, therefore anything not 1000% efficitent needs to be streamlined. But ilike how threat is currently in the game. As a tank i have to work hard to keep mobs on me use my abilities well, i can't slack on them, and i have to also find other means pf effectively maintaining threat.

 

 

what i see in ToR is so much better than what i experienced in WoW, and i can't help but feel that the dumbing down is beginning. Increase my threat gen by so much, i dn't have to work anywehre near as much, i can slack and do rubbish and still maintain threat, half of the clever little strategies and compensations are no longer necessary cos hey they stick to me like glue.. this makes the game more boring for me as a tank.. in wow it's so yawn being a tank ,, u have to be really really bad to lose aggro.. in ToR you have to be decent to keep aggro. If it must go up, why not asmaller number like 10 or 20% ?? but 50 is feeling far too much.

 

At first people will feel like you've done them a favor as their job has become a bit easier, but they'd get bored quicker as it is less challenging and less fun and ultiamtely less interesting. please re-consider doing this. Sometimes doing the popular thing from the forums ain't the best move, and you don't have to ldo what they want even if they think it would be better, but you realise it will hurt more in the long run.

 

Wow kept making these little adjustments bit by bit, to please peopel , who came moaning and compalining.. they didn't have to, at the end of the day, if people can do the content, and are succeeding at an accpetable rate ofr the difficulty level involved, hen it's fine. Tanks don't need a threat boost, clever play gets the job done and there are tanks that do it all the time.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Macetheace

[Darth_Rathus]

I don't even know where to begin.

[Phlem]

i don't even know where to begin.

What he said ^

Edited June 20, 2012 by Phlem

[OmegaMayhem]

don't listen to the moans.

 

..says the guy moaning about increased threat gen.

[Macetheace]

I don't even know where to begin.

 

let's start from the very beignning. It's a very good place to start...

 

 

i'm really concerned, boosting threat is jsut going make tanking too easy, i won't have to be innovative, or skilled to play a tank well because a major part of the tank playstyle would be obsolete cos you're just handed threat.. obsolte is far too strong a word here, but that aspect of tanking, an integral part of what's differnt about tanks than say dps, would be greatly diminished...50% sounds like an overtune. i use to see blizzard do that all the time, and i really respect bioware for resisting over tinkering. please resist further and severly reduce the amount currently planned for threat increase.

[casshern]

the only problem i have with threat is when i (3 columi pieces) am grped with very good geared dps i cant keep up, it did need a little boost but i agree with op 100% threat increase is to much.

[MasterKayote]

They may as well. Theyre already making the AoE's magically miss CCd targets ... why not just go all the way and let people tank with their eyes closed?

[VulcanLogic]

Tank skill should largely be determined by positioning and target swap ability and proper use of cooldowns. An effective 33% increase in threat is still going to require tanks to perform effective threat rotations, but not be the sunder/heroic strike button-mashing fest it was in that other game until later in its cycle. Couple that with a complete lack of tools for threat determination in SWTOR, and this change is necessary, at least for my enjoyment as a DPS (and the tanks I group with as well).

[MasterKayote]

the only problem i have with threat is when i (3 columi pieces) am grped with very good geared dps i cant keep up, it did need a little boost but i agree with op 100% threat increase is to much.

 

I miss the days when dps HAD to watch their own aggro or they would pull from even the best tanks.

 

...... and die instantly because of it.

 

/sigh ... thanks again WoW!

[alifaraaz]

In some respects I agree, but it is needed. Despite the %increase dps threat scales much.higher with gear than tanks since tanks dps increases much less significantly than dps with gear.

 

And during progression when you're trying to get that kill you don't wanna be using dps gear or stacking accuracy as a tank just to keep up on threat in those first seconds, which are the most important.

 

We've all found work arounds using CD, power adrenal and perfecting our opening rotation to allow dps to nuts straight away. But eventually as gear increases it'll reach the point where we can't match them. And they won't be able to slow down or they won't meet the enrage timers.

 

I'm a tank, I love a challenge, but this had to be changed. Now I don't think it was the best change, and would have maybe preffered something like what WoW did with a threat boost that scaled with certain defensive stats or endurance.

 

None the less, yes this dumbs down tanking. But to be honest with you, it will still probably be the ost challenging role in the game. Well apart from maybe Merc healing

[vojinsa]

the only time (TANK N SPANK) a tank MIGHT lose threat is the first 15-20 sec of a fight. shadow tanks dont have a FORCE JUMP/STORM to the boss like a VG/JG so they MAY suffer the most in that short time(dps force jumping in or rdps not waiting). i agree boosting threat will turn tanking into an idiot class but you have to think why are they doing it? Edited June 20, 2012 by vojinsa

[Galbatorrix]

It's normally what happens when group finders are added. You have to make the group runs easier because you have to play to the lowest common denominator. If tanking is tough, people complain that the tanks sucks and then less tanks queue up.

[Blackardin]

I'm really liking the effecitveness of threat right now and i fear increasing it as planned will making tanking too easy and less fun. I like that i have to maximise my dps as a tank and cleverly use my abilities to maintain threat./ what i'm seeing in the game so far works so much better unlike WoW where they buffed threat gen to the extent no skill was required any more by tanks.

 

I don't want to see a flat increase to embedded threat, but I would like to see the ability for well played tanks to manage threat more effectively. In a game where boss kills are centered around dps races, as we gear up and dps gets stronger, tanks will require greater tools to manage threat as "holding-off" for dps could result in hitting the enrage timer.

[Fireswraith]

I'm fine with what they are doing, especially in nerfing Assassin/Shadow tanking down to the level of the others. I would be even more fine if, for example, for Juggernauts they would make Sundering Assault (the armor debuff) have a high threat value attached to it like Backhand. But coming from DAOC I like the idea of a tank having an attack ability that they can essentially spam that generates a lot of threat.

[Macetheace]

In some respects I agree, but it is needed. Despite the %increase dps threat scales much.higher with gear than tanks since tanks dps increases much less significantly than dps with gear.

 

And during progression when you're trying to get that kill you don't wanna be using dps gear or stacking accuracy as a tank just to keep up on threat in those first seconds, which are the most important.

 

this is a fair point, because tanks get more reudciton as their gear goes up, not more damage and not more threat, at least not anywhere near as much. Fair point, in which case, another means should be found, like making tank threat scale with Endurance partially, so at least, tanks can generate roughly the same amount of threat when eveyrone is geared in campaign/blackhole as they can when eveyrone is geared in Tionese...otherwise x amount of gear later, you'd have to buff tank threat again, and that will just mess up the game for those at a lower level or entry level 50, becuase tanking becomes far too triival, and less fun.

 

So i would propose an alternative means of threat scaling with tank gear than an arbitary 33-50% increase

[Talarchy]

I would be much more concerned with the -45% defense rating we get nerfed with.

[Macetheace]

It's normally what happens when group finders are added. You have to make the group runs easier because you have to play to the lowest common denominator. If tanking is tough, people complain that the tanks sucks and then less tanks queue up.

in which case if they're that worried about it they can give a 5% increase to stats to everyone. but i doubt this would be the case.. i do not recommend they follow wow at all when it comes to group finder a few things are different here.

 

firstly it is not cross server, it is per realm, higher pool, closer pool of players

2. what is wrong with expecting a pick up group to be able to do the content just as effective as a non-pickup group? atm, there is no group finder, people have to ask in general chat for groups, htey find them they get nospecial favors or boosts tot anking or dps or helaing for that, yet still succeed in making succesful groups, why should this change when group finder is introduced? it's the same server pool, it will just stop the general spam for gorups and allow people away form the fleet to be able to find groups to go where htey want better.

 

no need to make it easier just because of group finder, i like this game still being a bit more challenging for the content , no one's chaffed in frustration, and content is getting done.

[Darkulous]

Got to make tanking easier in order to combat que times with the new LFD. The new tool is already handicapped being a same-server tool. You can't afford to handicap it further by having a shortage in tanks. It doesn't matter if a certain number of players can handle the threat table we have today. What matters is having "enough" players who can manage it.

[Valkirus]

I don't want to see a flat increase to embedded threat, but I would like to see the ability for well played tanks to manage threat more effectively. In a game where boss kills are centered around dps races, as we gear up and dps gets stronger, tanks will require greater tools to manage threat as "holding-off" for dps could result in hitting the enrage timer.

 

The very reason WoW buffed tank threat a while back. Exactly the reasons you just mentioned. But they did it logically with across the board 40% buff. You could continue tanking like you allways had and not have as much threat issues. Tho...surprisely it still does not make up for some impatient dps. But it makes tanking a lot more fun for most tanks and gets more tanks using the LFG tool.

[Valkirus]

I miss the days when dps HAD to watch their own aggro or they would pull from even the best tanks.

 

...... and die instantly because of it.

 

/sigh ... thanks again WoW!

 

Lol..that still happens. Happened tonight in fact in a LFR run I did. More than once.

[jgelling]

Threat generation and the bright lines between tank, DPS and healer are what's obsolete.

[DenitharPurloin]

Ok, forgive me but I did not read all the responses, so this may have been stated before...

 

To the OP, you are not the one working hard. Unless you are a shadow tank (and then you are not working hard) it is in the hands of the DPS to lower their threat. If they do not, and have ANY skills at all playing their DPS class, you will not hold aggro.

 

That is basically all I have to contribute to this post.

[lordofdamornin]

It's normally what happens when group finders are added. You have to make the group runs easier because you have to play to the lowest common denominator. If tanking is tough, people complain that the tanks sucks and then less tanks queue up.

 

This is a fallacy. The last time I logged into WoW, Call to Arms (you know, the tank bribe) was on...Tank. As it had been pretty much all day, every day, since the CTA inception.

 

This is after they made tanking ezmode.

 

This is after they put in the bribes.

 

This is after they put in the DS 5-mans, which are short and easy, and dropped good gear.

 

EZmode tanking does not lead to more tanks in the queue because it does not address the root problem - tanking is a thankless job, healing is a thankless responsibility, and dps is a faultless blamefest.

 

This change should not go live - ever. If more threat is needed later, it can be added via a scalable system, as others have mentioned. That said, all tanks appear to be taking a dps nerf, so perhaps this band-aid is temporarily needed. Temporarily. I would rather they just realize that tank damage doesn't need to be nerfed...

 

By the way...you don't miss Enrage timers because your dps had to wait 5 seconds. You miss Enrage timers because your dps haven't learned to maximize the fight yet. End of story.

 

Riôt

Edited June 21, 2012 by lordofdamornin

[jgelling]

Do you mean to say a lot of people don't enjoy being meat shields?

 

The game should absolutely bribe tanks and healers early, often and a lot if they're going to insist on the old-fashioned rigid role system without so much as a dual spec option.

Edited June 21, 2012 by jgelling

[EternalChild]

In some respects I agree, but it is needed. Despite the %increase dps threat scales much.higher with gear than tanks since tanks dps increases much less significantly than dps with gear.

 

And during progression when you're trying to get that kill you don't wanna be using dps gear or stacking accuracy as a tank just to keep up on threat in those first seconds, which are the most important.

 

We've all found work arounds using CD, power adrenal and perfecting our opening rotation to allow dps to nuts straight away. But eventually as gear increases it'll reach the point where we can't match them. And they won't be able to slow down or they won't meet the enrage timers.

 

Hmm, perhaps i am playing a different game? I admit, i never done Denova HM or nightmare ops, but i have done everything else and i never ever had problems with holding boss' aggro with my Juggernaught tank after they increased threat for Crushing Blow. Keeping aggro of multiple targets is harder, but it is not really needed. I never used adrenals, never told DPS to hold aggro or to do not attack boss in the first seconds. And why should i stack accuracy if i never miss with any of my abilities (except Assault) with 0 accuracy? Or perhaps it is different in nightmare?

Edited June 21, 2012 by EternalChild