Can we, as a community, eliminate the "Grass" and "Snow" in Alderaan?

[Daiyukie]

63 pages? You OCD people have really kept this thread alive

 

Despite strong derailing attempts =]

[Saltydogg]

You say Grass or Snow you know EXACTLY where to go no matter what side you started from, you say East West that is going to change every match that you start on the other side. I would prefer knowing exactly where to go no matter where I start from and make it super easy.

 

Maybe some people dont know what grass is? How about we change it to ******* left, savants right everyone else northwest. That may fix these idiots who cant understand its easier to say grass and snow

[Alortik]

Jesus Christ! 63 damn pages of such a stupid argument. They are all valid and useable.

OP, it's not that hard. West is grass, East is snow. If you're at one and notice grass around you, you're probably at grass.

 

Stop having a cry and trying to push your ideals on to anyone else. Get over it, adapt and move on.

[Varicite]

If someone is brand new to Warzones in the first, place, I would rather they survey and learn the map more than come when a call is made. I say this because the next time they are in this WZ, they will know where Snow/Grass is, and be much more prompt in arriving at those destinations. Again.....will East/West work? Yes. Nobody can refute that East/West will work. Will E/W be more efficient? Not to the majority of players who know the map.

 

At the point that you know the map, it becomes absolutely moot which call you use, as at that point you are recalling the sides from memory based on personal preference. In my opinion, the most "efficient" call to use will be the one that the player is most familiar w/ and thus has the least amount of actual "recollection" to do when associating the side w/ the call. It's almost a "muscle-memory" reaction at this point.

 

For me, that is still East / West, which is why I use them predominately. For others, that might be Snow / Grass.

 

I've still yet to see any sort of actual evidence other than your opinion to support that the "majority of players" finds Snow / Grass easier, and this thread's length would be a good indicator that your statement is false.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Varicite

[Varicite]

Despite strong derailing attempts =]

 

I got forum warnings when I tried to derail, lol.

 

Somebody was very upset that we did not keep the discussion squarely centered on this most important of debates.

 

/nod

[Sinemetu]

And this is incorrect. East/West may potentially be better for people who haven't learn the map yet, but only briefly, and at that point if they are new to the map, they are probably new to Warzones in the first place, any call will not yield accepable results in a competitive environment. So we can eliminate newbies from the argument, and solely focus on people who know the map. And when you know the map, then Snow/Grass/Landmarks are going to be the simpler and faster method. Will East/West work? Certainly. Will East/West work easier/faster than Snow/Grass for the majority of players? Absolutely not.

 

Actually, for someone who knows the map and the game that well, calling out anything is really unnecessary a lot of the time. If you can't tell the other node is getting pressured you're just not that great.

[olagaton]

At the point that you know the map, it becomes absolutely moot which call you use, as at that point you are recalling the sides from memory based on personal preference. In my opinion, the most "efficient" call to use will be the one that the player is most familiar w/ and thus has the least amount of actual "recollection" to do when associating the side w/ the call. It's almost a "muscle-memory" reaction at this point.

 

For me, that is still East / West, which is why I use them predominately. For others, that might be Snow / Grass.

Wrong. Grass/snow are landmarks. You admitted that you use Landmarks to gather your bearing before heading East or West, which means that whether or not you specifically use Grass or Snow, you use Landmarks before you process east/west. This makes East/West slower to process than the Landmarks themselves. At that point, it's just a matter of agreeing on which landmarks are best suited for a given Warzone map. In Alderaan's case, Snow/Grass are the top dogs.

 

So however effective or fast you, personally, are at acting to a call. Based on historical studies referenced by BangokBetty, the Landmarks will make you even more effective and/or faster than your current system, if you allow it the opportunity to be.

 

No one is doubting that a "familiar" system will work better than a different system that someone hasn't gotten used to. We are looking at the end result if equal time and effort were put into both systems, which would be more efficient and faster.

 

As for evidence, you're a good case study to illustrate that grass/snow is faster, by the admission of your own actions.

[olagaton]

Actually, for someone who knows the map and the game that well, calling out anything is really unnecessary a lot of the time.

Knowing the map does not equate guarantee one to be a skilled PvPer. And this thread is not segregating skilled players from the unskilled.

[BlastingGravy]

Thank you so much for that well thought out post, Betty. I started posting in this thread not because I wanted to "win" an argument, but simply because I was curious as to why anyone would use "grass and snow" at all. My origin server and guild have always used "east and west," so I didn't know anyone who didn't agree with me. Your explanation is the only one in this thread that has made any sense, so thank you for that.

 

I think, however, that such a preference of using landmarks may be from environmental factors rather than being inherent in the human mind. For example, the Australian Aborigines use cardinal directions for everything, to the point where they don't even have words for "right" and "left." If you were facing north, instead of saying "raise your right hand," they would say something like "raise your east hand." It may sound silly, but doing so gives them all incredible navigational skills.

 

I still think "east and west" is better because of its universality when landmarks are unavailable, like on Novare Coast. But at least now I may have a better understanding as to why others think differently.

[CoLatrLdamage]

This is the most AWESOME thread. I’ve spent about an hour reading most of it and I’ll try to boil down the arguments supporting each point of view in a bulleted list to help people get up to speed.

 

1 – Left/Right – FAIL

No one uses this and the small percentage of supporters realized they are a very small group and have abandoned the thread in shame.

 

2 – West/East

• Cardinal directions are (hopefully) universal and mini map makes easy to see w/o opening full map

• Noobs can follow from first match

• E/W viable through all PvP matches/zones

• one hand typing – can be shortened to E/W (my point, no one was impressed with)

• E/W never change based on which way toon is facing

• Landmarks are not visible Mid and …

• ..require special (albeit simple) knowledge not everyone has

• Even if we know which side is grass/snow, how to get there requires a direction and the mini-map comes in handy again to know which way to go, i.e., east/west – so let’s skip the step

 

3 – Grass/Snow

• It’s easier (subjective)

• Everyone uses it (false - see this thread)

• Scientific b/c people use landmarks in RL (no evidence to show also true in video games nor universal in RL)

• People who don’t use grass/snow are stupid

 

I think I covered all the points in the 60-something pages. Let me know if I missed a point.

[Varicite]

Let's start a new thread about why bullet points are better than alphanumerically ordered lists now that you have laid out all the relevant information here. Edited July 16, 2012 by Varicite

[TheronFett]

Let me know if I missed a point.

 

Yeah, the big one: "We" as a community, aren't going to agree on anything. I can't believe people are still even bothering with this thread.

 

Personally, I've only ever seen a very small handful refer to the points in Civil War as "grass" and "snow". Left/right is somewhat more common, but far and away, east/west prevails on my server. It's kind of sad that simple directions, which are taught in grade school, could be so confusing to people in the first place.

[Saltydogg]

This is the most AWESOME thread. I’ve spent about an hour reading most of it and I’ll try to boil down the arguments supporting each point of view in a bulleted list to help people get up to speed.

 

1 – Left/Right – FAIL

No one uses this and the small percentage of supporters realized they are a very small group and have abandoned the thread in shame.

 

2 – West/East

• Cardinal directions are (hopefully) universal and mini map makes easy to see w/o opening full map

• Noobs can follow from first match

• E/W viable through all PvP matches/zones

• one hand typing – can be shortened to E/W (my point, no one was impressed with)

• E/W never change based on which way toon is facing

• Landmarks are not visible Mid and …

• ..require special (albeit simple) knowledge not everyone has

• Even if we know which side is grass/snow, how to get there requires a direction and the mini-map comes in handy again to know which way to go, i.e., east/west – so let’s skip the step

 

3 – Grass/Snow

• It’s easier (subjective)

• Everyone uses it (false - see this thread)

• Scientific b/c people use landmarks in RL (no evidence to show also true in video games nor universal in RL)

• People who don’t use grass/snow are stupid

 

I think I covered all the points in the 60-something pages. Let me know if I missed a point.

 

Its impressive that belive your idea of what happens in a WZ is the norm. East/West is not something thats viable in any type of PVP environment. Landmarks are something that has aways been used rather than a compass direction. Now if I say I need help west that means what exactally??? Now if I say I need help Grass that is pretty descriptive and any person no matter what education level will be able to decern what area I am talking about. So your argument is moot. East/West never never never works in a PVP environment even if you have a frist time noob in the WZ.

[Varicite]

Its impressive that belive your idea of what happens in a WZ is the norm. East/West is not something thats viable in any type of PVP environment. Landmarks are something that has aways been used rather than a compass direction. Now if I say I need help west that means what exactally??? Now if I say I need help Grass that is pretty descriptive and any person no matter what education level will be able to decern what area I am talking about. So your argument is moot. East/West never never never works in a PVP environment even if you have a frist time noob in the WZ.

 

Novarre Coast says No.

 

I won't even address your other astounding failures of logic.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Varicite

[funkiestj]

Novarre Coast says No.

 

I won't even address your other astounding failures of logic.

 

me thinks you've been trolled. Of course this entire thread is 90% troll.

 

The post by CoLatrLdamage was a valiant attempt at non-trolling content but alas ...

[CoLatrLdamage]

Now if I say I need help west that means what exactally???

 

I'd go west to help you.

[Saltydogg]

I'd go west to help you.

Well what I would do is pull my horse and buggy up to the state line and then ask someone to yell out go westward young man, go west. Then after that I will pull up my map. look at a compass, chart the sun in the sky and head over yonder. However if you said Ride Towards that F'in cactus that looks like a ***** I might have a better sense of direction where west would be located

[SirMoody]

Hey guys I need Help with something... I'm going to be taking a road trip from North Carolina to California...Now which direction should I go? Grassward or Snowward? ... My friend told me that I should just go West, but what does that mean exactly??

[DeathDealerElite]

I agree, Also, if I see another player refer to a side as "Crash site", I might punch a kitten in the face.

 

Use east and west please. For the kittens.

 

fricking hilarious

[Sztoid]

I was recently in a Civil War warzone and capturing the eastern turret and called out an incoming. I called out "1 inc east" and the reply I got was "it's snow or grass". I called out again "east" and was defeated. Help never came so I'm under the assumption that some people would rather I use terrain features over cardinal direction to call out incoming enemy players.

[Saltydogg]

Hey guys I need Help with something... I'm going to be taking a road trip from North Carolina to California...Now which direction should I go? Grassward or Snowward? ... My friend told me that I should just go West, but what does that mean exactly??

 

You can't use real world examples for PVP warzones, it makes no sense. However what does make sense is land marks. Have you ever got dirctions from someone where they were look for X gas station on the right, or its the white house with a red mail box. The human brain is something of a puzzle when it comes to short term/ longterm memory. Its very easier for a person to remember I have to turn right at the gas station on the corner after the second light, compared to saying go north 2 lights then go west as the gas station. Learing by Association is pretty much how the majority of our population learns. Thats why there's such a small number of true geniuses out there

Edited July 17, 2012 by Saltydogg

[Saltydogg]

I was recently in a Civil War warzone and capturing the eastern turret and called out an incoming. I called out "1 inc east" and the reply I got was "it's snow or grass". I called out again "east" and was defeated. Help never came so I'm under the assumption that some people would rather I use terrain features over cardinal direction to call out incoming enemy players.

 

Is there a actual compass in game? I thought it goes by X and Y axis

[Saltydogg]

Is there a actual compass in game? I thought it goes by X and Y axis

 

I am quoting myself because I just thought of a great idea. Instead of calling out East/West Grass/Snow, I am going to start calling out X-213.4 Y12.4 needs help got 4 here. That should solve all this BS going on here

[Sinemetu]

Is there a actual compass in game? I thought it goes by X and Y axis

 

...yes? Your minimap? Up is north, east is right, etc. Never Eat Shredded Wheat or something?

[Pistols]

Please let this thread die already.