Rail Shot / High Impact Bolt

[KseriousEG]

I think something needs to be adjusted here...

 

Some people complaining are about mercs... They can be easily LOS'ed, interrupted... you see their attacks coming easily.

 

Same thing with assassin / shadow tanks. If you see 3 stacks built up, you know the lightning / tele throw is coming, and you react to that. LOS / vanish after the 1st tick, CC them, whatever. swap attacks when they pop CDs. easy.

 

Operatives can be kited by a lot of classes...

 

Snipers can be LOS'ed easily and CC'ed out of cover.

 

Smash Jugg? same thing... it is easy to predict what is coming and react accordingly.

 

Marauders are no different. Every move they have can be identified and countered in one way or another.

 

My experiences vs. Pyrotech / Assault VG is not the same though. Rail Shot / High Impact Bolt is more or less unpredictable. Sure the burn can be purged in a bunch of various ways... but it is way too easy for them to re-apply it. The real kicker is that rail shot is a hard hitting 30m instant that bypasses 90% armor. People who build this class right hit for 4k+ with it often... and I'm not talking about hitting fresh 50 squishies. Even a full WH guardian / jugg is going to get hit for 4k+ by this.

 

In the end... I just think this ability needs some way to be countered. Not a hard counter,but like most classes I play against, I expect to be able to learn the class and spec, and know how to react. I feel I can react accordingly against all classes in the game except these Pyrotech / Assault VGs

 

Does anyone else feel the same way?

[Theology]

Serious case of L2P needed here.

[SajPl]

You do realise its weapon damage right ?

Shadow defensive cooldown will make the railshot miss 50% of the time, the other will outright prevent a pyro from doing any damage for 5 seconds.

Warriors saber ward, same thing 50% miss rate, rebuke flat 20% damage reduction, guarded by the force, railshot hits for 5 damge. These are only a few ways to counter it.

Be glad we cant make our dots 100% crit for 1k per tick every 12-20 seconds like the class with 4 defensive cooldowns.

 

I mean are you serious ? You can kite a sent but cant kite a pyro ? How terrible sents are on your server ?

[csmnstoica]

Agree with the OP here. Railshot needs a distinctive animation or a small cast time (aka a warning sign - big hurt coming your way). Its the only HIGH DMG SPELL in game with no tell tell signature (although some of the Jedi knights/sith warrs moves are also luckluster and obscure)

 

Edit: people really need to read the OP post first before posting "l2p" and other offtopic advice.

Edited June 19, 2012 by csmnstoica

[HTPRO]

You do realise its weapon damage right ?

Shadow defensive cooldown will make the railshot miss 50% of the time, the other will outright prevent a pyro from doing any damage for 5 seconds.

Warriors saber ward, same thing 50% miss rate, rebuke flat 20% damage reduction, guarded by the force, railshot hits for 5 damge. These are only a few ways to counter it.

Be glad we cant make our dots 100% crit for 1k per tick every 12-20 seconds like the class with 4 defensive cooldowns.

 

I mean are you serious ? You can kite a sent but cant kite a pyro ? How terrible sents are on your server ?

 

Okay you listed cooldowns of the two strongest and arguably OP classes.

What does Commando / Merc do against HiB / Railshot? 25% damage reduction? Ok it now crits "only" for 4K instead of 5k.

What does Sorc / Sage do? Oh yes bubble which is gone after one HiB / Railshot and they still take 2k ish damage?

What does Sniper / Gs / Op / Scoundrel do? Oh yeah that 3s (4s) dodge. Good I dodged this one, I won't dodge another one coming in 6 seconds.

 

Also do note that railshot is not the only attack pyro has, he can still use thermal detonator / assault plastique, dots, rocket punch / stock strike etc.

 

I just do not see how can people justify an attack regularly critting for 5K which also happens to bypass 90% armour and has 6s - 15s cooldown and 30m range.

[TheronFett]

1) HiB/Rail Shot only applies to burning or incapacitated targets.

2) 90% armor penetration must be spec'd.

3) It's base weapon damage.

4) 4k crit is not "automatic" as indicated, but is possible.

 

Now, here's a quarter so you can call the Waaaambulance.

Edited June 19, 2012 by TheronFett

[Twor]

Okay you listed cooldowns of the two strongest and arguably OP classes.

What does Commando / Merc do against HiB / Railshot? 25% damage reduction? Ok it now crits "only" for 4K instead of 5k.

What does Sorc / Sage do? Oh yes bubble which is gone after one HiB / Railshot and they still take 2k ish damage?

What does Sniper / Gs / Op / Scoundrel do? Oh yeah that 3s (4s) dodge. Good I dodged this one, I won't dodge another one coming in 6 seconds.

 

Also do note that railshot is not the only attack pyro has, he can still use thermal detonator / assault plastique, dots, rocket punch / stock strike etc.

 

I just do not see how can people justify an attack regularly critting for 5K which also happens to bypass 90% armour and has 6s - 15s cooldown and 30m range.

 

Look up how white damage works. Espescially a sniper in cover laughs if you use a white damage ability from the front on him.

Otherwise check up which defense checks are required for the hip to pass. It can be shielded, dodged, deflected. Also the 5k crits are during CD usage. Or you try to PvP in Pve gear.

 

@OP, you hear a laugh? Thats the pyro restting his hip CD. Should be warning enough. And he can't reset the CD on range bigger than 10m.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Twor

[HTPRO]

Look up how white damage works. Espescially a sniper in cover laughs if you use a white damage ability from the front on him.

Otherwise check up which defense checks are required for the hip to pass. It can be shielded, dodged, deflected. Also the 5k crits are during CD usage. Or you try to PvP in Pve gear.

 

@OP, you hear a laugh? Thats the pyro restting his hip CD. Should be warning enough.

 

Sniper in cover has 25% ranged defense. If you have 110% accuracy, this is reduced to 15%. However I give you that snipers have better chance at dodging HiB / Railshot than other classes.

 

HiB can be shielded - Ok. Which classes use shields? Tanks. Why would you target tanks when you can **** squishies? Yes you do not target tanks unless it's a must. Yes tanks are hard for a pyro pt. If only pyro pt had some kind of internal / elemental damage. OH WAIT THEY DO!

 

On my commando with full BM and War Hero Mainhand (augmented), Offhand, Ears and Two Implants and NO augments what so ever (except the main hand)I hit ~3.5K crits on heavy armour BM - equipped players without usage of adrenals / power relics. My HiB ignores 30% of enemy armour.

 

Vanguard's HiB deals 6% more damage than mine (talent called Brutal Impact in Shield Specialist tree) and ignores 90% of enemy armour. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise that you can regularly hit ~5K crits with fully augmented war hero pyro / vanguard. Actually there is one Pyro PT on my server (Kassus Phett - hello if you are reading this XD), fully equipped and he reguarly crits me for 5k (1115 expertise, heavy armour)

 

1) HiB/Rail Shot only applies to burning or incapacitated targets.

2) 90% armor penetration must be spec'd.

3) It's base weapon damage.

4) 4k crit is not "automatic" as indicated, but is possible.

 

Now, here's a quarter so you can call the Waaaambulance.

 

1) Oh man I so wish vanguards had some way to apply burn to their targets - OH WAIT they actually can!! Also HiB requires any kind of burn - from some other vanguard for example. Grav round (and imperial counterpart) enables usage of HiB too.

 

2) True man, the 60% armor ignore talent is really unreachable with deep assault specialist (pyrotech) build. OH WAIT it is actually a talent at the very bottom of the Tactics tree with no prerequisites!

 

3) Yes mitigated by armour, can be dodged / shielded. OH WAIT it is not mitigated by armour because it ignores 90% of it! However I agree that it does hit for a lot less on tanks (Smart pyro always kills tanks first - or not?)

 

4) If you get a crit on HiB with a geared vanguard, I guarantee you will see nubmers higher than 4K.

 

 

I do not claim that vanguards / powertechs are OP. I merely say ONE ability they have hits a bit too hard with very little preparation needed.

Edited June 19, 2012 by HTPRO

[AppleRedX]

omg ... again a mimimi & nerf thread. another skillless TO who dont understand a class system where you have healer, tanks and dds (burst and sustained)

 

why not nerf every high damage skill any class have, or better: why not just one class with a wooden stick and one! attack skill. that would be fun

Edited June 19, 2012 by AppleRedX

[Twor]

Sniper in cover has 25% ranged defense. If you have 110% accuracy, this is reduced to 15%. However I give you that snipers have better chance at dodging HiB / Railshot than other classes.

 

HiB can be shielded - Ok. Which classes use shields? Tanks. Why would you target tanks when you can **** squishies? Yes you do not target tanks unless it's a must. Yes tanks are hard for a pyro pt. If only pyro pt had some kind of internal / elemental damage. OH WAIT THEY DO!

 

On my commando with full BM and War Hero Mainhand (augmented), Offhand, Ears and Two Implants and NO augments what so ever (except the main hand)I hit ~3.5K crits on heavy armour BM - equipped players without usage of adrenals / power relics. My HiB ignores 30% of enemy armour.

 

Vanguard's HiB deals 6% more damage than mine (talent called Brutal Impact in Shield Specialist tree) and ignores 90% of enemy armour. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise that you can regularly hit ~5K crits with fully augmented war hero pyro / vanguard. Actually there is one Pyro PT on my server (Kassus Phett - hello if you are reading this XD), fully equipped and he reguarly crits me for 5k (1115 expertise, heavy armour)

 

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/f4cec873-51d0-48d1-8f73-488a8402e1ee

 

This a a link to a pyro who has posted some crit videos here. Notice the accuracy for ranged attacks. It is 95%. Than add the normal defense mechanimns of ANY class on top of that. (even my vanguard has 5% base without any shield and any other things, doh) So not only shield but just hover over your defense stats. If you have a light saber it can be deflected etc etc...

 

Also nope outside of CD usage on a same equipped player you will not see 5k crits on a regular base outside of CD usage. Maybe you wanna do the math as hip/rs hits noncrit for 1,3k-1,8k. Outside of CDs. So with 77% surge...

Yup. Not 5k sry. I am speaking about people on the same equip level here.

 

110% accuracy... again hip is not a tech attack. So if someone has that high of an accuracy he will not have high power/damage stats.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Twor

[Molokia]

Wow, a new post complaining about pyrotechs.... Humm maybe you should have just gone to the 50 other posts complaining about it... Pyro is counterable, it's not "god mode". I assume you think that Bio-Ware should nerf pyrotech (again) because you got smoked by one. The world will continue to rotate, even if you think it shouldn't.

[Didy_Kush]

This topic again lol.

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s459/Carthy1/Screenshot_2012-06-15_21_06_19_081078.jpg

 

I is op.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Didy_Kush

[HTPRO]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/f4cec873-51d0-48d1-8f73-488a8402e1ee

 

This a a link to a pyro who has posted some crit videos here. Notice the accuracy for ranged attacks. It is 95%. Than add the normal defense mechanimns of ANY class on top of that. (even my vanguard has 5% base without any shield and any other things, doh) So not only shield but just hover over your defense stats. If you have a light saber it can be deflected etc etc...

 

Also nope outside of CD usage on a same equipped player you will not see 5k crits on a regular base outside of CD usage. Maybe you wanna do the math as hip/rs hits noncrit for 1,3k-1,8k. Outside of CDs. So with 77% surge...

Yup. Not 5k sry. I am speaking about people on the same equip level here.

 

110% accuracy... again hip is not a tech attack. So if someone has that high of an accuracy he will not have high power/damage stats.

 

Oh well man you really argue just for the sake of arguing.

 

Base Accuracy for HiB is 90%.

Base Dodge / Deflect chance is 5% (10% for sorc / sage).

This means HiB with 0 accuracy will hit in 85 cases out of 100.

No competent PT / Vanguard runs with BASE accuracy to intentionally gimp their highest damaging attack.

With 100% accuracy on HiB, you are looking at 95% chance to hit which is pretty reliable.

 

1622-1993 is currently my HiB damage on commando. This is increased by 6% when you are a vanguard. This is further increased by better gear and augments which I do not currently have. Realistically you can see 1850-2200 listed in skill description as a vanguard with proper gear, if not more.

 

This ignores 90% of armor and is increased by further 9% when you hit burning target. Also this one talent increases crit damage by 30% so with 77% surge you are looking at 107% damage increase when you crit, not 77%. So yes we are looking at ~4.5K crits on equally geared player. Not 5K, my bad, 4.5K crits are still quite a lot on a (possibly) 6s CD skill)

[JDotter]

I have more fun shooting enemies with taunts and still watching them attack my teammates then I do using rail shot.

[kitsinni]

If you are specced to have that 90% armor reduction then you didn't spec to have all the tank goodies and should be really easy to kill. We don't have a way to stealth, run away fast, jump all over, pull allies to us etc. Yes Rail Shot is super powerful but it has a 15 second CD, you have to keep the target on fire to do it and you can try to reset it every 6 seconds. Our only way to make sure you are going to be on fire is with one of our highest heat cost attacks or on our flame burst which will only do it every six seconds if it trigger combustible gas cylinder so it is not reliable. Yes we can burst you to half in the first 5 seconds of a WZ then our dps drops to like 25% of that after the initial burst and we don't have a bunch of defensive cooldowns to play with.

[kcol]

lol, I find it funny that 2 out of the three OP classes are ganging up on the poor powertech. Guess it's not enough that a juggs smash can hit 5 people for 6k damage, or sins can wail on people with 4.5k attacks and maras can hit a BM geared sage for 5k on almost every hit.

 

Hate to tell ya, but powertech/vanguard are needed to level the playing field against the force abusers.

Edited June 19, 2012 by kcol

[hyuplee]

This topic again lol.

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s459/Carthy1/Screenshot_2012-06-15_21_06_19_081078.jpg

 

I is op.

 

meh getting that kind of dmg in PT is like normal reall-

 

Wait ***? 964k?

 

nerf pls.

[Sookster]

LOL like railshot is responsible for that 964K damage. Thermal detonator is the one you need to worry about more than railshot, my railshot ranges between 1.3K to 3.8K (rarely break 4K) while TD easily hits well over 4K, over 5K against a sage or undergeared player.

 

And like others said, railshot is white damage, it can be shielded, dodged, reduced, etc.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Sookster

[Didy_Kush]

LOL like railshot is responsible for that 964K damage. Thermal detonator is the one you need to worry about more than railshot, my railshot ranges between 1.3K to 3.8K (rarely break 4K) while TD easily hits well over 4K, over 5K against a sage or undergeared player.

 

And like others said, railshot is white damage, it can be shielded, dodged, reduced, etc.

 

Actually im only spec'd 28 points in pryotech ;p

[Twor]

Oh well man you really argue just for the sake of arguing.

 

Base Accuracy for HiB is 90%.

Base Dodge / Deflect chance is 5% (10% for sorc / sage).

This means HiB with 0 accuracy will hit in 85 cases out of 100.

No competent PT / Vanguard runs with BASE accuracy to intentionally gimp their highest damaging attack.

With 100% accuracy on HiB, you are looking at 95% chance to hit which is pretty reliable.

 

1622-1993 is currently my HiB damage on commando. This is increased by 6% when you are a vanguard. This is further increased by better gear and augments which I do not currently have. Realistically you can see 1850-2200 listed in skill description as a vanguard with proper gear, if not more.

 

This ignores 90% of armor and is increased by further 9% when you hit burning target. Also this one talent increases crit damage by 30% so with 77% surge you are looking at 107% damage increase when you crit, not 77%. So yes we are looking at ~4.5K crits on equally geared player. Not 5K, my bad, 4.5K crits are still quite a lot on a (possibly) 6s CD skill)

 

Wrong. I just did point out to you the basics you missed in your posts (e.g. how defense works since you only thought shields work see your post about snipers...). Stack accuracy if you like and try getting your 5k crits on geared opponents.

[hyuplee]

LOL like railshot is responsible for that 964K damage. Thermal detonator is the one you need to worry about more than railshot, my railshot ranges between 1.3K to 3.8K (rarely break 4K) while TD easily hits well over 4K, over 5K against a sage or undergeared player.

 

And like others said, railshot is white damage, it can be shielded, dodged, reduced, etc.

 

Lol pls.

 

Carthy is on my server and his rail shot hits me 4.6k regularly and im in full custom warhero.

 

I feel sorry for you bro.

Edited June 19, 2012 by hyuplee

[DweezillKagemand]

Lol pls.

 

Carthy is on my server and his rail shot hits me 4.6k regularly and im in full custom warhero.

 

I feel sorry for you bro.

 

Pretty much this ^ tbqh.

 

My full tank's Railshot hits for more than 1.3k.

[Asukaa]

Assualt Commando is my main and 1v1 against a Assualt VG is tough but do-able. I lose majority of the time but I leave them with 10%-15% HP. Someone can easily come and pick them off. And from what I noticed, it's not really the HiB that beats me, it's me not cleansing the dot fast enough. When I time my attacks between the cleanses right, I win. This is a case of L2P. Juggs are the most BS class in the game, I unload ALL of my ammo, Jugg uses 3 globals, ...I die..., look at his HP... 85%... *** is that ****!? Same goes for Shadows/sins. Either bring everyone up to their level or nerf them pls.

[Uchoo]

maras can hit a BM geared sage for 5k on almost every hit.

 

Hate to tell ya, but powertech/vanguard are needed to level the playing field against the force abusers.

 

Lol. /5chars

[Coldin]

It's overpowered. It doesn't take some mystical orb to see that.

 

One my guildies recently changed from tank spec, to assault, and is now tearing things up in warzones. It's just that easy to put out crazy numbers in damage.

 

It doesn't matter if they have less defense. The sheer amount of DPS means they really don't need all the defensive tools.

 

I also love how people say this can be countered. Beyond a very select few abilities, that only last about 2-6 seconds, the only way to counter a Pyro's damage is to not be anywhere near them.