zalio Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 When you choose to play an assassin/shadow you are choosing to play a DPS class. In almost every MMO an assassin is almost always a pure DPS class. Now I applaud Bioware for thinking outside the box and giving assassins/shadows options. Some people may be willing to give up DPS for more survivability hence they will choose tank spec. But as it stands assassins/shadows can tank just as well (if not better than the heavy armor tanks). This is just absurd! Not only am I for the changes in 1.3, I don't think it goes far enough. Assassins/shadows tanks should not even come close to be able to tank as well as the heavy armor tanks. To hear that some guilds run with assassin/shadow main and off tanks to do the HM/NM ops is just absurd. If anything my vote is to just remove the tank tree altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timidobserver Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) When you choose to play an assassin/shadow you are choosing to play a DPS class. In almost every MMO an assassin is almost always a pure DPS class. Now I applaud Bioware for thinking outside the box and giving assassins/shadows options. Some people may be willing to give up DPS for more survivability hence they will choose tank spec. But as it stands assassins/shadows can tank just as well (if not better than the heavy armor tanks). This is just absurd! Not only am I for the changes in 1.3, I don't think it goes far enough. Assassins/shadows tanks should not even come close to be able to tank as well as the heavy armor tanks. To hear that some guilds run with assassin/shadow main and off tanks to do the HM/NM ops is just absurd. If anything my vote is to just remove the tank tree altogether. Eh, you're being ridiculous. If the Assassin is going to have a tank spec, then it should be capable of tanking. If they don't want it to be a tank spec, then get rid of it and add another dps tree or something. However, as long as the tank spec is there it should be usable for... tanking. I'll indirectly agree with you though. Since they are making the spec useless, they might as well just go ahead and revamp the spec into something else. As long as they set up a way for me to switch out the tank gear I put time and effort into earning, I am all for dumping the tree. They can just set it up for that the war hero, battle master, columi, and rakata vendors give you the token/commendations you gave them back if you sell the item back to them. Edited June 8, 2012 by timidobserver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zalio Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 And that is my point exactly...Bioware should just remove the tank spec altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timidobserver Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) And that is my point exactly...Bioware should just remove the tank spec altogether. Not quite. I disagree on the idea that Assasin tanks shouldn't be able to tank effectively. They should be able to tank anything that any Tank can Tank, if they are a Tank because a Tank would be able to Tank what any Tank can Tank. However, what I think we agree on is that there should not be a useless spec in the game. At the point that they have to nerf it into uselessness to fix it, they should just revamp it into something else. Edited June 8, 2012 by timidobserver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithy Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Just because a class is named something does not mean it equals whatever that name was associated with in another game. So... don't associate assassin with any other MMO and it won't be a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogzLife Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) When you choose to play an assassin/shadow you are choosing to play a DPS class. In almost every MMO an assassin is almost always a pure DPS class. Now I applaud Bioware for thinking outside the box and giving assassins/shadows options. Some people may be willing to give up DPS for more survivability hence they will choose tank spec. But as it stands assassins/shadows can tank just as well (if not better than the heavy armor tanks). This is just absurd! Not only am I for the changes in 1.3, I don't think it goes far enough. Assassins/shadows tanks should not even come close to be able to tank as well as the heavy armor tanks. To hear that some guilds run with assassin/shadow main and off tanks to do the HM/NM ops is just absurd. If anything my vote is to just remove the tank tree altogether. You may not agree with Assassins being tanks in the first place, but plain and simple they are. I highlighted your statement there to prove the point that even you agreed we are tanking equally with the other classes. Better in the case of caster bosses, but not as well in the case of physical bosses. Therefore, outside of your opinion that Assassins shouldn't be tanks in the first place, you believe we're just fine at tanking and therefore balanced, so we shouldn't be nerfed. Edited June 8, 2012 by BulldogzLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauksbokT Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Why is there even threads like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynt Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think most people forget that other tanks cant heal for 12%+ dark heal profs every 9 secs or so. Yeah I'm sure that is nothing on a 19k + hp tank... Reality is that people just need to learn to use their brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I made my assassin to be a tank, and i really enjoy the play style of it and the amount of utility i have on various situations in pve. If you don't like tanking as an assassin don't do it, you have 2 dps speck to choose from. By your comparison they should make all healers and dps use light armor then, why do mercs need heavy armor, they can dps/heal without it just as well, no? Or maybe they should do the wow vanila style, lock each class in to one useful speck and others are there for fun of it? For me the idea is brilliant, tanks that rely on force for protection more then any sort of armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creditcard Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Such a pointless thread. Don't like the spec, don't play it. Don't like the game, go back to wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeguy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Other tank classes should not have DPS trees! Why can a pyro kill people in pvp faster than anyone else when he wears heavy armor!?!?!?!? I'm guessing OP is a troll, but just incase, there's no reason why assassin tanks shouldn't be as good as the other tanks. I've been assassin/shadow tanking since the beginning, we've cleared all content just fine. We also have PTs and Guardians who have tanked all content. What's the issue again? All tank classes can clear any content, that's how it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaphael Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) I think most people forget that other tanks cant heal for 12%+ dark heal profs every 9 secs or so. Yeah I'm sure that is nothing on a 19k + hp tank... Reality is that people just need to learn to use their brains. Just because FL has a 9 sec CD doesn't mean it can heal every 9 secs... The quickest way to build HD up is by using Wither+Shock+Wither, which takes 21 secs. Then comes the heal that takes 3 secs to complete. So at best we get 12% health roughly every 25 secs, which on a 19k HP tank would mean 91 HPS. Edited June 11, 2012 by Rhaphael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendai_S Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 When you choose to play an assassin/shadow you are choosing to play a DPS class. Opinon. Not fact. In almost every MMO an assassin is almost always a pure DPS class. Now I applaud Bioware for thinking outside the box and giving assassins/shadows options. Some people may be willing to give up DPS for more survivability hence they will choose tank spec. But as it stands assassins/shadows can tank just as well (if not better than the heavy armor tanks). This is just absurd! The classes don't tank better. Better players tank better. Not only am I for the changes in 1.3, I don't think it goes far enough. Assassins/shadows tanks should not even come close to be able to tank as well as the heavy armor tanks. To hear that some guilds run with assassin/shadow main and off tanks to do the HM/NM ops is just absurd. If anything my vote is to just remove the tank tree altogether. ...sigh. /foreheadslap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Why is something named a Juggernaut not wearing a ridiculous Cone Shaped Helmet and yelling that ''He's the juggernaut!" Just doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tXHereticXt Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) EDIT bah, so not used to the forums still. Apologies. Edited June 12, 2012 by tXHereticXt double posted >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tXHereticXt Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) How come Darth Maul could force Choke solo but I need a Companion to do it! ***! : I'm guessing OP is a troll, but just incase, there's no reason why assassin tanks shouldn't be as good as the other tanks. Maybe he is or maybe he isn't. I'd simply ask, why does it matter? Don't spec tank. That's the point of the Sin, Tech, and Jugg - experience a little different flavor than your typical holy trinity. Edited June 12, 2012 by tXHereticXt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timidobserver Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Maybe he is or maybe he isn't. I'd simply ask, why does it matter? Don't spec tank. That's the point of the Sin, Tech, and Jugg - experience a little different flavor than your typical holy trinity. Makes me wonder if you are a Bioware plant. "Don't spec tank" is the most typical response possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynt Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just because FL has a 9 sec CD doesn't mean it can heal every 9 secs... The quickest way to build HD up is by using Wither+Shock+Wither, which takes 21 secs. Then comes the heal that takes 3 secs to complete. So at best we get 12% health roughly every 25 secs, which on a 19k HP tank would mean 91 HPS. I seriously hope you are joking... but I feel there is a huge L2P issue here so I'll help out Shock - 0 secs in to fight wither - 1.5 secs in to fight thrash - 3 secs in to fight (energize proc ) Shock - 4.5 secs in to the fight force lightning - 6 secs in to fight starting dmg and heals from channel No energize proc Shock- 0 secs wither - 1.5 secs thrash - 3 secs saber strike - 4.5 secs shock - 6 secs (6 sec cooldown) channel lightning - 7.5 secs LOL clearly it takes 20+ seconds to start healing ... maybe if you are terrible but the normal player can get it pretty quick.... I should charge for my services on these forums. I bet I'd make a killing. You are welcome, pass it along,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeroe Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I seriously hope you are joking... but I feel there is a huge L2P issue here so I'll help out Shock - 0 secs in to fight wither - 1.5 secs in to fight thrash - 3 secs in to fight (energize proc ) Shock - 4.5 secs in to the fight force lightning - 6 secs in to fight starting dmg and heals from channel No energize proc Shock- 0 secs wither - 1.5 secs thrash - 3 secs saber strike - 4.5 secs shock - 6 secs (6 sec cooldown) channel lightning - 7.5 secs LOL clearly it takes 20+ seconds to start healing ... maybe if you are terrible but the normal player can get it pretty quick.... It should be noted that I am assuming the OP is talking from a PvE standpoint. From a SinTank, who has done multiple PvE runs, the heal from Force Lightning shouldn't be considered a heal in the since of the word for MMOs. A better term would be a Ward, it is more like additional damage mitigation if anything. The first Force lightning can be thrown out fairly early, but on most bosses that early Force Lightning heal is usually wasted for the most part. The healers in my guild can usually keep me topped up with little to no problem for the beginning of the boss fight. It is when the boss starts hitting random targets, or they do their little tricks here or there and the healers are forced to focus on other targets on top of me, is when you start to notice the heal mitigation from Assassin Self heals. Now to the OP, as others have stated if you don't like the class don't play it. You pay for the game so play it your way. I pay for my play time so I am going to play it my way. Who cares if Bioware made Assassins a tanking class. Hell in beta they had Marauders and Sentinels set as the third tanking class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRedNalroni Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) I think most people forget that other tanks cant heal for 12%+ dark heal profs every 9 secs or so. Yeah I'm sure that is nothing on a 19k + hp tank... Reality is that people just need to learn to use their brains. Yup, Everyone knows its impossible to have a 5 second channelled ability uninterruptable and heals 12% of the total health...... Total Health 19000 12% = 2280 To gain health from Force Lightening 3 harnessed Darkness Charges are required: Regenerates 8 Force per second Shock (39 Force; 1 charge), Wither (30 Force; +1 Charge), Thrash (23 Force; Waiting on cooldowns and to refresh Shock), Shock (39 Force; +1 Charge; Force lightening heals available) Force Lightening (30 Force required to activate; 5 Second channel of 4 procs of healing) So thats 39+39+30+23+30 = 161 Force required / 8 Force per second equals 20 Seconds for First tick of Health, +5 seconds for duration of force lightening for a total of 25 Seconds. So thats 2280 Health every 25 seconds (if the tank doesnt have to move, react, use other abilities, isnt knocked own, knocked back, or otherwise in those last 5 seconds; Which in fact happens 70% of the time in EC HM Boss tanking. Happens 100% of the time in PVP against skilled players. That no where near covers the additional damage already taking more than other tanks in HM operations. If a Noob doesnt interrupt it in PVP though, its enough healing to cover 91.1 DPS! Yes 91.1 DPS! OMG Nerf Assassin/Shadows. Oh wait that 91.1 HPS is getting nerfed to 60.7 HPS, and they will be taking 6.6% more damage. But thats ok because the healing of 60.7 Hps will actually cover most of that (6.07 of it) So What Bioware have actually done is cancel out 100% of the self healing. Without taking into account its impossible to keep FL at 100% uptime whenever you take damage, or the fact that you will be crit. A Better solution would have been remove Harnessed Darkness Healing Completely and leave armour alone. Edited June 15, 2012 by TheRedNalroni grammar/spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anysao Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 No. Considering you mentioned "in all other MMOs..." shows you don't understand the star wars lore behind it: The shadows and assassins have so much force potency, not only can they use it to decimate targets, they can use it to completely ignore, absorb, and avoid damage. Hope that explains why we have it. PS- im an ex-sith assassin. i defected to a jedi guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marak Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I think the more important issue here is assassins were simply improperly named. Nothing about them is assassiny other than stealth. Wraith or something would've been a better name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tfranco Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Why shouldn't it be a tank class op? You didn't give a good reason. What cuz they are light armor? Druids are leather in wow and tank, he'll monks will be cloth tanks. It sounds like an assassin was picked over you and ur butthurt. It was an outside of the box idea that I support 100%, I'm sick of tanks always being in the big thick heavy armor and ****. It's nice to see a tank based around dodging shields and evasiveness not just "look what my thick armor can mitigate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) A jugg has more armor than an assassin, and dodges better than an assassin however the assassin shield/aborbs better than the jugg. And then the powertech shield/aborbs better than the assassin with significantly more armor. In a video (I think it was discussed on gamebreaker.tv last week) a dev mentioned from best to worse tank in order is powertech, juggernaut, assassin and I didn't believe him until I saw the changes on 1.3 so he must be referring to the 1.3 state. The jugg would hold up best against the foreman crusher during his frenzy with the amount of defense possible, while the powertech would be best against the fabricator with the amount of absorption even with the stack of armor debuff from the droid. http://www.tankingtor.com/2012/05/swtor-tanking-specific-interview-with.html Edited June 16, 2012 by Sookster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 There are 3 tanks and 3 healer options available for each faction. Every class has a DPS option. Assasssins are not a rouge class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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