Heezdedjim Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) For what it's worth, there was a Q&A where they claimed that on the server side the damage is and always has been applied instantly as soon as the attack was fired, and that the animation was only a client side event. That said, what they really should have done with this is get away from the whole excavation aspect of the animation, and have whatever item is thrown just appear from over your shoulder, out of thin air if need be, but probably it would be from behind and outside your field of view if you're zoomed in close. It would be a little weird maybe, but better than what they had, or what it is now. That would eliminate the whole dig-up and accelerate phase of the animation, and the item could just magically appear flying at full speed instantly. Or just give up on the whole force septic tank / force pebbles thing altogether; just give us a one-handed version of that cool two-handed ball lightning throwing like Satele does in the trailer and be done with it. I think she's supposed to be doing Force Wave based on the knockback, but they could take that general idea and make a quick, cool looking ball lightning replacement for project that would be consular-ish and not have all the liabilities of pretending to throw random crap at people. Edited June 7, 2012 by Heezdedjim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) For what it's worth, there was a Q&A where they claimed that on the server side the damage is and always has been applied instantly as soon as the attack was fired, and that the animation was only a client side event... If that was true then that server side damage would have interrupted caps at nodes, and it never did, as it was delayed. SO I consider that BS. ... Or just give up on the whole force septic tank / force pebbles thing altogether; just give us a one-handed version of that cool two-handed ball lightning throwing like Satele does in the trailer and be done with it. I think she's supposed to be doing Force Wave based on the knockback, but they could take that general idea and make a quick, cool looking ball lightning replacement for project that would be consular-ish and not have all the liabilities of pretending to throw random crap at people. The bite is that this is already IN the game...Ashara (inq companion) has a skill called force burst... http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8731/forceburstvsshock.jpg Its instant, and one handed, and a perfect analog to shock. You stick out your hand and they are impacted with a force effect. No projectile, so disturbance remains different. Then there is ANOTHER sith companion, Raina Temple with ANOTHER force burst that has yet ANOTHER animation that would be a fine replacement for junk. It is really frustrating that the sith side has the best animations, the best stories, and EVEN THEIR COMPANIONS have better animations than my pub toons. Edited June 7, 2012 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjii Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) why not just a simple force push, why do we even have to grab objects from the ground? Edited June 8, 2012 by Odjii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoruulKeei Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 For what it's worth, there was a Q&A where they claimed that on the server side the damage is and always has been applied instantly as soon as the attack was fired, and that the animation was only a client side event.. Wrong. "Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): Whenever you use an "instant" ability, the server receives and process that action without any animation dependency (read: instantly), but the impact VFX and flytext are synced to the attack animation on your client. This is done to make the game look good and give attacks a sense of weight and impact without affecting timing or balance. There are some notable exceptions to this that are real delays and real discrepancies that we're aware of and are addressing. In the case of Shock and Project, there is a real delay (on the server) before Project deals its damage, and that's something we're fixing in 1.3. The other real delays that we're aware of are in Smash and Force Sweep, but we don't yet have a fix for those." http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-may-25th-2012-%E2%80%93-special-edition-game-update-1.3#h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMarchini Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Does it really matter whether or not they throw rocks and other junk in the movies? I mean, it's a video game.... As many have stated in prior posts, a lot of us are fans of the original animation, we would just not like to have the apparent travel time. To me, it still never gets old watching the rock, droid, vase, etc coming out of the ground and flying to the enemy and watching the object stun and/or interrupt an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramahospitality Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Does it really matter whether or not they throw rocks and other junk in the movies? I mean, it's a video game.... As many have stated in prior posts, a lot of us are fans of the original animation, we would just not like to have the apparent travel time. To me, it still never gets old watching the rock, droid, vase, etc coming out of the ground and flying to the enemy and watching the object stun and/or interrupt an attack. Hit the nail on the head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caveslug Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 im for it... probably because i never had much issue with it being rocks in the first place... im for it because of its new responsiveness AND random nature... after playing with it today i was pleased with how it did not immediately scream out "HEY look! squishy sage this way!" psh its not like you have a giant green laser pointer screaming to everyone in the WZ, hey look here is a healer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) Does it really matter whether or not they throw rocks and other junk in the movies? I mean, it's a video game.... Since it is a video game based off an IP, one that just about every living human has heard of, yeah it matters. This is like saying "does it matter if jedi have lightsabers?" "Does it matter if Sith are power hungry?" In the first, perhaps most famous jedi games, the jedi knight series, junk chunking was SPECIFICALLY a DARKSIDE trait. So does it matter that the jedi class skillset is based on what was historically a darkside skill? The look and feel of the jedi classes VERY much matter, and jedi aren't non-stop junk chunkers. Jedi never threw a rock at anybody in six movies. And you ask if it matters that the jedi consular class is DEFINED by throwing rocks and junk??? So yeah, it matters. ...As many have stated in prior posts, a lot of us are fans of the original animation, we would just not like to have the apparent travel time. To me, it still never gets old watching the rock, droid, vase, etc coming out of the ground and flying to the enemy and watching the object stun and/or interrupt an attack. I'm glad you are a fan of the animation. Too bad you arent more of a fan of the IP, then you would have the answer to your question and would not have had to ask it. Sith Inqs are identified in the game by lightning...so you want jedi to be identified in the game by junk chunking, which SITH used EVEN MORE THAN THEY USED LIGHTNING in SIX MOVIES. I see a problem with that, and you should too. So what did you want, to take a ridiculous, junk conjuring animation, that conjured inappropriate junk half the time, and make it even more ridiculous by having the damage tick before the junk hit??? So when I saw the junk coming and I stealthed before it hit, I should still take magic damage from the magic junk? Or when I saw it coming and I popped a defensive CD, I should still take unmitigated damage from the magic junk even though I popped defenses before it hit? Can't you see the stupidity and poor design in that??? Really, you should think about these things because they are obvious questions that pop up from what you claim you want. They should show you just how goofy that approach is.... psh its not like you have a giant green laser pointer screaming to everyone in the WZ, hey look here is a healer... roflmao...good one, Im still lol'ing. If combat animations dont show you who is attacking you, the game gets pretty silly pretty fast... Edited June 8, 2012 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkybladeDarkstar Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Seriously, BioWare, have you playtested this at all? While the instant damage may make the PvPers happy, the animation is horrible. Most of your Consular gamers don't actually read the forums or even play the PTS. When this goes live, I hope you are prepared for huge backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botea Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I agree with the majority of people here. This is something that really needs to not make it to live. It's going to anger a lot of consulars I know, as this animation is a favorite for a lot of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramahospitality Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Seriously, BioWare, have you playtested this at all? While the instant damage may make the PvPers happy, the animation is horrible. Most of your Consular gamers don't actually read the forums or even play the PTS. When this goes live, I hope you are prepared for huge backlash. They did they same thing with the Smugglers. They took away Corso's harpoon and the Upperhand giggle. Its actually what made me start going on the forums. They take the easy way out instead of an actual solution that make both sides happy. It's kinda getting old, to keep seeing BW taking these shortcuts with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I still would strongly prefer the "force ball" that Satele Shan shoots at 4:10 of The Hope Cinematic Trailer. No confusion about where it comes from, no problem animating it super-quick, could look decently cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AramusTor Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 They just don't get it, do they? It seems they want to continually half -*** this class, the Knight's poor second cousin. Not only does an ability have to be practical, it has to have the visuals to support it, otherwise just have numbers pop up over the enemy's head and call it a day. Visually, project was great looking. It just needed the damage delivered on cast to sate the PVP'ers. But no, can't have a Bioware action that doesn't fix A without totally borking up B, can we? I mean, balance must be maintained, right? It's bad enough that Shadow animations are so painful you want to gouge out your eyes with a spork (especially after watching Kira do her thing. Sucks to be jealous of a companion). Now you have to break the signature move of the Sage. Don't let this go live. PLEASE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) They just don't get it, do they? It seems they want to continually half -*** this class, the Knight's poor second cousin. Not only does an ability have to be practical, it has to have the visuals to support it, otherwise just have numbers pop up over the enemy's head and call it a day. Visually, project was great looking. It just needed the damage delivered on cast to sate the PVP'ers. But no, can't have a Bioware action that doesn't fix A without totally borking up B, can we? I mean, balance must be maintained, right? It's bad enough that Shadow animations are so painful you want to gouge out your eyes with a spork (especially after watching Kira do her thing. Sucks to be jealous of a companion). Now you have to break the signature move of the Sage. Don't let this go live. PLEASE. I agree, it needs to be practical. What is more practical than throwing something already in your hand, that supposedly can cut through just about anything, i.e., saber throw. I also agree that the shadow animations are bleh (slow time is ok). But apparently you wanted to keep the junk chunking and just have the damage tick before the junk hits, which contradicts yourself...that IS basically "just having the numbers pop over the enemies head" so I will ask the same questions of you I did of another poster earlier: So what did you want, to take a ridiculous, junk conjuring animation, that conjured inappropriate junk half the time, and make it even more ridiculous by having the damage tick before the junk hit??? So when I saw the junk coming and I stealthed before it hit, I should still take magic damage from the magic junk? Or when I saw it coming and I popped a defensive CD, I should still take unmitigated damage from the magic junk even though I popped defenses before it hit? Can't you see the stupidity and poor design in that??? Really, you should think about these things because they are obvious questions that pop up from what you claim you want. They should show you just how goofy that approach is....and impractical. A skill that has a projectile that you have to conjure and then throw at relatively slow speeds, just is not fit for an instant ability.... Edited June 9, 2012 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birtram Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Truth is I can't argue with that... As long as you are projecting something, instant damage will always turn out to something weird... That can't be the best fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsakenKing Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think im the only one who liked the old animation being slow because i could use it and it would hit the same time as my next attack causing nice burst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) I think im the only one who liked the old animation being slow because i could use it and it would hit the same time as my next attack causing nice burst No you werent. In fact, I believe this is why many people tolerated the junk throwing. Problem is it is "cheating" the GCD and breaking the mirror paradigm with shock. And it is of questionable value. It creates a gap in your damage. This can be bad. A few posts from a few other players: Just after you cast Project, it lingers there in the air for about a second. There's advantages and disadvantages to this, but for the burst part, here's what a burst chain (assuming all crits) would look like: A (GCD) B (GCD) C ........4k 4k......... 4k ____+2k For Assassin, it's like this: A (GCD) B (GCD) C 4k........ 4k......... 4k +2k A - Project/Shock B - Force Breach / Discharge C - Shadow Strike / Maul "All crits" happens more than you might think. Project, Auto-Project, and Force Breach, eat all 3 charges of Force Potency, but for burst it's worth it. Then ShadowStrike(Maul), and subsequent Spinning Strikes(Assassinate), have on a BM Shadow/Assassin, around a 43-45% crit chance. Bad Shadows will project in the middle of that chain, and watch as their target survives their awkward burst, then come here to cry about it.. That summary lays it out pretty well from a "pro-burster". Also note one of the devs confirmed that the source of the delay was AT the server and was unacceptable. That drove this mirror fix, in part. And as I alluded to, there is a downside to that gap in damage: ...There's really no such payoff with Project except the illusion of burst that doesn't actually matter because you can follow a cast time ability with shock and achieve the same burst as you do with project followed by a true instant. Edited June 9, 2012 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilim Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Well I don't like it but it does seem to have the advantage of being discrete. The whole animation is over very quick which I suppose was the goal. I can get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpicmip Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 That does look pretty bad. I hope they change it. Put me in that, apparently, minority(seriously?) group that liked the previous animation. PS. Long text posts counting the number of times that an imaginary character throws stuff around in a movie made my week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramahospitality Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I still would strongly prefer the "force ball" that Satele Shan shoots at 4:10 of The Hope Cinematic Trailer. No confusion about where it comes from, no problem animating it super-quick, could look decently cool... force ball = disturbance and Turbulence ... ? We don't need another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) force ball = disturbance and Turbulence ... ? We don't need another one. Pretty sure we dont need pebbles, rocks, and junk either. At all. They are a bad joke in poor taste. In a game where other classes have flame throwers, blasters, lightning, autocannons, missile launchers, etc. Jedi, perhaps the most famous warrior/philosopher archetype in ALL of scifi, get rocks, pebbles, and junk - magically conjured. I couldnt make up anything much more ridiculous. Have you played an Inquisitor and used Ashara as a companion? I have used her and watched her Force Burst animation hundreds if not thousands of times, right next to my Sin using Shock. It looks great. There is no projectile like in disturbance...you reach out a hand and the target is instantly impacted with force energy. It looks good, is truly instant, and would compliment Disturbance very nicely. Edited June 16, 2012 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiii Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 The new animation is horrible. I don't like it. Just another addition to a long list that makes playing a Sith Sorcerer that much cooler than playing a Jedi Sage. Oh, and Dyvim ... I find it quite comical that you're still ranting about the lore aspect of this. We get it man, we get it. The fact is, the game is set and in motion ... there is nothing that will be done about it now because of Lucas's approval of these things in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) The new animation is horrible. I don't like it. Just another addition to a long list that makes playing a Sith Sorcerer that much cooler than playing a Jedi Sage. Oh, and Dyvim ... I find it quite comical that you're still ranting about the lore aspect of this. We get it man, we get it. The fact is, the game is set and in motion ... there is nothing that will be done about it now because of Lucas's approval of these things in the game. Well if it is too late to expect BW to pull head from arse about any number of things in this game...from their disastrous attempt at open world pvp (Ilum fiasco) to any number of other problems that have created the huge faction imbalance that exists in this game, like reducing jedi to junk tossers, then without hope of improvement why waste any time here? I fully expect them to make things better and figure out, eventually, that basing a jedi class on a sith signature skill, as clearly shown in all 6 movies, is pretty stupid of them. Sith tossed junk more than they shot lightning. Seeing junk go flying is about as iconic to sith as red lightsaber blades. It is exactly as you stated it. Sorcerer is cooler than sage. The Sith side is cooler than the Pub side. The stories are better, the companions are better, the animations are better. There is a REASON that this game has the faction imbalance it has. And IMO an good piece of that reason is junk and pebble tossing jedi. Edited June 16, 2012 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) I played with it on PTS for about an hour and got used to the animation, and definitely liked the instant damage of it. I would still prefer a ball of force power, but overall, I'd prefer new project to old project, from a PvE perspective. Edited June 16, 2012 by Boxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholicc Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I played with it on PTS for about an hour and got used to the animation, and definitely liked the instant damage of it. I would still prefer a ball of force power, but overall, I'd prefer new project to old project, from a PvE perspective. It's still not instant damage. There's a gap in between the casting of the skill and then moment it debris hits the target. Instead of damaging the target at the end of GCD it applies damage in between the cast time and the GBC. So instead of: A (GCD) B (GCD) C ........4k 4k......... 4k it's A (GCD) B (GCD) C ....4k ....4k......... 4k Please sign my useless petition if you are not satisfied with the new animation. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4661132#post4661132 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts