Opinions on the new Project animation?

[Dyvim]

It's still not instant damage. There's a gap in between the casting of the skill and then moment it debris hits the target.

Instead of damaging the target at the end of GCD it applies damage in between the cast time and the GBC.

So instead of:

A (GCD) B (GCD) C

........4k 4k......... 4k

it's

A (GCD) B (GCD) C

....4k ....4k......... 4k

 

Please sign my useless petition if you are not satisfied with the new animation.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4661132#post4661132

 

Ugh. Well as long as you are conjuring and throwing junk, it is going to take time. And it is just simply NOT suited to an instacast skill. Replacement is the way to go, be it with a switched out disturbance ani or saber throw or force burst or whatever....heck even Kira has a skill where she lifts up her arm and instantly the ground under the targer cracks...like an instant, mini force quake... I think it is called Force Tremor... Even that would be far better...

[Vankris]

one thing they could do that would work well is

 

create a new spell, instant, with a force push animation that apply damage instantly to the target. thatnew spell has

- same damage as project

- share cooldown with project

- is equaly talent modified as project

 

that way, player have choice which one they want to keep in their action bar. (or even keep both for sake of animation variety). if the cooldown is shared, it should not upset the balance of the classes.

[Dyvim]

one thing they could do that would work well is

 

create a new spell, instant, with a force push animation that apply damage instantly to the target. thatnew spell has

- same damage as project

- share cooldown with project

- is equaly talent modified as project

 

that way, player have choice which one they want to keep in their action bar. (or even keep both for sake of animation variety). if the cooldown is shared, it should not upset the balance of the classes.

 

Ya know, that is actually a great idea. I have proposed before to make something in Legacy where you could pick different animations or unlock different animation choices for skills...people get tired of seeing the same thing over and over, and when you are leveling an alt, even moreso. So your idea is kind of the same thing, or at least similar. Inside Legacy or not, giving players choice is usually the way to go. The devs have made it clear that the old project is gone because of the delay it had at the server. So if they let people choose between a force burst animation or the new project, and think that would be interesting.

[Hatonastick]

Wow... Just.. Wow... That is terrible. I _LOVE_ the old animation (although I suspect I'm pretty much the only one if these forums are anything to go by). Oh well, better start planning a build that doesn't involve the use of Project now in preparation for 1.3.

 

What they need to do is a poll.

 

Edit: Actually I like Dyvims suggestion. More customization options is never a bad thing.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Hatonastick

[Freelancer]

Wow... Just.. Wow... That is terrible. I _LOVE_ the old animation (although I suspect I'm pretty much the only one if these forums are anything to go by). Oh well, better start planning a build that doesn't involve the use of Project now in preparation for 1.3.

 

What they need to do is a poll.

 

Edit: Actually I like Dyvims suggestion. More customization options is never a bad thing.

 

No, Im with you on how awesome the current (unpatched) version of project is. What they have on the test server is horrid and takes away from the "smack effect" of the one we use now. There are so many ways the community has suggested to correct the delay and I hope this is looked into more before being pushed to the live servers.

[Sabbatine]

For those who've seen it? I don't have a video, but instead of picking up the object close to your PC and hurling it, it now come up next the the enemy and hits them with less travel time.

 

Personally, I'd have preferred it if they'd have kept the old animation and just made the damage hit instantly. The new animation doesn't look half as good.

 

The old animation didn't make any sense. You pulled it up out of the ground, let your opponent get a good look at it, and then threw it at them. It was a terrible animation for a force ability intended for use in a fight.

 

The new animation is far better, less delay, and often it's pulled out of the ground outside of the opponents line of sight... very practical for fighting.

 

They could have kept the old animation I suppose, but they would have needed to make it quicker. If it had flowed better, like flinging it in an angle directly at the opponent with no "hey look what I found in the ground!" delay would have been fine too.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Sabbatine

[AlwaysG]

Honestly, I posted it here because Shadow's won't notice it as much because they fight close up anyway. It'll still look like they're pulling the item out of the ground relatively close to them.

 

as a shadow tank since launch, project is the meat and potatoes of my rotation. (well, slow time is the meat really). But what I LOVED about my toon is how fantasic it felt to rip one (sometimes two pending my spec) giant boulders out of the ground and whip them at my enemies.

 

That is gone. Now I'm gonna fart rocks at people, and probably get bored and quit. Especially after a pvp tanking nerf that'll end up with me taking 20%+ more damage in a HM pve ops fight.

[Asechikan]

What if project was changed to an animation similar to force quake? A small circular area under the target would become all cracked and broken and earth quaky looking when a wave of force energy similar to disturbance would flow rapidly from the targets head to his feet and disperse (kinda like a giant water splash) leaving the disrupted ground under them.

 

It could be instant, would still make sense to stun npc's, no delay, fits w/ telekinesis and doesnt toss junk

[csmnstoica]

Project is fine. Shock should be brought in line with it not the other way around.

 

Its a STAPLE move, centric to the class and it makes you feel like a ******. Its in top 3 of Best looking and designed abilities in this game alongside Force Lighting and Force Leap.

 

Its a shame BW is giving in to all the QQers complaining about delay. The changes, proposed by many in Project threads, would turn the class into a dull uninteresting shadow of its former self, even if the propositions were well laid out and given with the best intentions in mind.

 

We'll see how this change turns out, but the way it seems now, its a compromise that nobody likes.

[Dyvim]

What if project was changed to an animation similar to force quake? A small circular area under the target would become all cracked and broken and earth quaky looking when a wave of force energy similar to disturbance would flow rapidly from the targets head to his feet and disperse (kinda like a giant water splash) leaving the disrupted ground under them.

 

It could be instant, would still make sense to stun npc's, no delay, fits w/ telekinesis and doesnt toss junk

 

This is pretty much already in the game, its a companion ability called Force Tremor, used by Kira, and it looks pretty good...and of course is instant. I've suggested it as a good solution, along with saber throw, Force Burst (Ashara version), Force Burst (Raina version), all of which are also instant, very jedi-like, and of course already in the game.

[Sabbatine]

as a shadow tank since launch, project is the meat and potatoes of my rotation. (well, slow time is the meat really). But what I LOVED about my toon is how fantasic it felt to rip one (sometimes two pending my spec) giant boulders out of the ground and whip them at my enemies.

 

That is gone. Now I'm gonna fart rocks at people, and probably get bored and quit. Especially after a pvp tanking nerf that'll end up with me taking 20%+ more damage in a HM pve ops fight.

 

Are you being serious? You actually loved the fact that your toon said:

 

"Whoa, hold it everyone, I'm gonna stop fighting a second here, wait for it... see a rock! I pulled a rock out of the ground! Oh snap! THERE'S TWO!!! See that everyone?! TWO ROCKS! I gave you fair warning these rocks are coming your way, no fair dodging! Ok, just wanted you all to see that, the fight can resume now."

 

I'd think that anyone who enjoyed the fighting animations would appreciate the practicality of the new animation in that you're:

 

1. Not showing the enemy what you're doing and giving him plenty of time to dodge or counter it (speaking purely about aesthetics involved in combat that should be immersive and thus 'realistic').

 

2. Hitting the enemy (frequently) from outside of their line of sight... I mean honestly, what's better... asking the enemy what he thinks of your pretty rock, or blindsiding him from behind?

 

3. Not breaking the flow of combat with a stupidly long animation. I mean honestly, the current animation looks like something the Jedi do in the movies, and what have the Jedi ever done well in the movies, aside from get killed? I'd much rather fight like winning means something.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Sabbatine

[Dyvim]

Are you being serious? ...

3. Not breaking the flow of combat with a stupidly long animation. I mean honestly, the current animation looks like something the Jedi do in the movies, and what have the Jedi ever done well in the movies, aside from get killed? I'd much rather fight like winning means something.

 

You mean something a sith would do. Because in six movies jedi never threw a rock at anyone. The only jedi to initiate throwing junk was Anakin, and he wasnt exactly a jedi role model. Contrast this with the 20 or so times Sith threw junk in the movies. EVERY sith did it. It was their most frequent ranged attack, used more than lightning or choke. When I see junk thrown it screams sith to me as much as a red lightsaber does....

[csmnstoica]

"Whoa, hold it everyone, I'm gonna stop fighting a second here, wait for it... see a rock! I pulled a rock out of the ground! Oh snap! THERE'S TWO!!! See that everyone?! TWO ROCKS! I gave you fair warning these rocks are coming your way, no fair dodging! Ok, just wanted you all to see that, the fight can resume now."

 

I'd think that anyone who enjoyed the fighting animations would appreciate the practicality of the new animation

 

TOR needs more individually distinctive spell animations. At the moment there are only a handful of animations which are noticeable. The rest are just a mush of in-distinctive moves which could be changed to sparks of light and no1 would even notice.

Project is a beautiful designed spell that adjusts to the environment and is visually distinctive. Its "mirror" ability - Shock - however is in-distinctive and should be made more obvious.

 

A good game design revolves around moves and counter moves. If you are not able to gauge your opponent moves and adjust to them, the game lacks any depth whatsoever and using CDs is more about chance than skill.

For ex. It is pretty hard to tell which specc of Jedi Knight/Sith you are fighting at anytime. You can distinct the advance class by how many lightsaber they are using but the subspecc is hard to determine.

Same with pyros - all of their animations are lackluster, difficult to gauge and predict (unless you have one yourself and are intimate with the class) and that makes the class a very dangerous one.

 

To Dyvim

Please give it a rest already. There is nothing inherently evil about using the environment to your advantage. The Jedi are not hippies, they are still warriors. There are sooo many Force abilities described in the EU that your rants are pointless.

Edited June 19, 2012 by csmnstoica

[JMarchini]

 

Please give it a rest already. There is nothing inherently evil about using the environment to your advantage. The Jedi are not hippies, they are still warriors. There are sooo many Force abilities described in the EU that your rants are pointless.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Your rants are made perfectly clear Dyvim, and in fact, most of us understand why you're agitated about the "junk chunking" as you call it. But the fact is, this is a video game.

 

Take a look at the abilities in this game, not just for the jedi classes, but for all the classes. If you're irritated about Project, what about TK Throw? When do you see a Jedi do that? Or how about Force Stasis? Or Force Sweep? I know, how about the fact that lightsabers don't kill anyone in one hit, just like in the movies? Because, it is a video game. There are so many abilities in this game that would not fit in the lore, because you don't see anybody in the movies using them.

[Dyvim]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Your rants are made perfectly clear Dyvim, and in fact, most of us understand why you're agitated about the "junk chunking" as you call it. But the fact is, this is a video game.

 

Take a look at the abilities in this game, not just for the jedi classes, but for all the classes. If you're irritated about Project, what about TK Throw? When do you see a Jedi do that? Or how about Force Stasis? Or Force Sweep? I know, how about the fact that lightsabers don't kill anyone in one hit, just like in the movies? Because, it is a video game. There are so many abilities in this game that would not fit in the lore, because you don't see anybody in the movies using them.

 

Hmm. Yes, its a game. Perhaps you can show me one other game where junk throwing was classified as a lightside skill and made the signature move of a jedi class. I played most of them, and junk throwing has been classified as a darkside skill BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WE SEE IN THE MOVIES.

 

TK Throw needs to change too.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=29235

 

Lightsabers dont kill anyone in one hit in most of the games. That isnt a problem. They still do damage. That is the idea. Dooku hit Obi Wan with his lightsaber and didnt even cut off a limb. It happens. And it is necessary for game balance mechanics. But no where is it necessary to make jedi junk tossing earth shaman conjurers. I use the Force. The Force is my ally. I haz rocks, junk and pebblez...it is ridiculous. A ridiculous joke.

 

The fact is, this is a video game where they made the sith side first, as BW has told us they did, then they simply RESKINNED it and made jedi MIRROR what the sith were doing. OK, fine. But they could have at least put a little more effort into the animations, knowing that it is a reskinned Sith, to give it some jedi feel. Instead, they took a move, junk throwing, that SITH used more than LIGHTNING in six movies and based the class on it. THat is unacceptable.

 

I'm glad my posts are clear. If you dont want to read them, they are easy enough to ignore. Otherwise, I will be glad to have a discussion with you if you want to actually think about the lore and the game mechanics.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Dyvim

[Tralus]

I think the easist solution is to have everyone who works on the Empire side of dev house come work on the Republic side. At least THEY have some clue as to how the characters should look and the animations could be.

 

It seems like 90% of the Republic effort is just 2nd rate to that of the art, graphics, mechanics and last but not least armour looks of the Empire side.

[Catholicc]

I think the easist solution is to have everyone who works on the Empire side of dev house come work on the Republic side. At least THEY have some clue as to how the characters should look and the animations could be.

 

It seems like 90% of the Republic effort is just 2nd rate to that of the art, graphics, mechanics and last but not least armour looks of the Empire side.

 

I actually think the armor sets for imps look horrible. Even the low level gear.

[Tralus]

I actually think the armor sets for imps look horrible. Even the low level gear.

 

Have you SEEN the "oven mits" that the Consulars have for gloves?!?

[NSStember]

My only thought on the animation is that I dare not show any droid just how many droids are buried all over the galaxy.... Be it Typhon, Coruscant, Nar Shadaa....doesn't matter. Just under the surface are dead droid pieces just waiting for you to pick them up and hurl them at people.

[Eggsalicious]

The old animation and delay were better. Any competent player knows that the current Project's advantages far outweigh its disadvantages, but this change isn't aimed at skilled players.

 

It's aimed at the same people who fight all over the map and ignore objectives in warzones. If you're separated from your team and fighting a stealth class, a delay on project might affect the outcome of a pointless 1 v 1. That shouldn't have meant that Project got changed. Rather, it means that you're dumb and shouldn't have gotten separated from your team and started fighting a stealth class 1 v 1.

 

I hope they're merciful and just leave Project as it is, although I confess to deriving some pleasure from watching the uninformed or incompetent get precisely what they asked for.

 

~Sig

Edited June 23, 2012 by Eggsalicious

[Beakertanks]

I just want to put my vote in that I despise the new animation.

I understand the need to even out the timing but honestly would rather have the delay to get my old animation back

 

In the interest of not just whining as I see i there are two possible solutions to this.

 

1. Keep the animation but have the damage register instantly. How this works when you kill the target with project might be problematic, but since most of the time there is a half second delay when you kill something anyway ... it shouldn't be too terrible.

 

2. Make shock have the same delay in damage as project. How would it look? You could show the hand glow or have lightning run into the hand before being thrown... like you are charging up or something.

 

Bottom Line. New animation worse than the benifits gained in timing and I recommend a different solution.

[Dyvim]

I just want to put my vote in that I despise the new animation.

I understand the need to even out the timing but honestly would rather have the delay to get my old animation back

 

In the interest of not just whining as I see i there are two possible solutions to this.

 

1. Keep the animation but have the damage register instantly. How this works when you kill the target with project might be problematic, but since most of the time there is a half second delay when you kill something anyway ... it shouldn't be too terrible.

 

2. Make shock have the same delay in damage as project. How would it look? You could show the hand glow or have lightning run into the hand before being thrown... like you are charging up or something.

 

Bottom Line. New animation worse than the benifits gained in timing and I recommend a different solution.

 

Neither of your solutions will work. You cant have the damage tick before the rock hits. BW has put effort into making animations more responsive and effort into cinematic combat overall. You cant fall over dead, say what the heck hit me, then see the rock hit your corpse a second later. Or pop stealth or defensive cool downs before the rock hits and have them meaningless. People just arent thinking. You cant have the game mechanics be so divorced from what the game is showing the player. The delay is bad, it always has been bad, and the gap in damage it creates is worse than the "burst" the wannabe GCD cheaters always talk about. I play a 50 shadow and a 50 Sin and the sin with shock feels more responsive.

 

Delaying shock is even more ridiculous. The game does need balance across its mirrors, but it also needs balance across the other classes - inqs and cons arent the only classes in the game. Why should Inquisitors get delays added to an ability? How about all the other classes and their instacasts? WHY SHOULDNT THEY GET DELAYS, TOO? Hopefully you can see the slippery slope and what a poor design choice that would be. In addition, there is already a charging animation for lightning...it is called LIGHTNING STRIKE...and yes it has an activation timer, just like project needs to be attached to an activation timer skill if it stays in the game.

 

Bottom line. Junk tossing has always been stupid and has always been inappropriate for an instacast. The junk takes too much time. The junk conjuring out of the ground is a ridiculous mechanic. And to top it all off, jedi arent rabid junk tossers. SITH use junk tossing more than anybody, and they use it more than they use lightning, when you start counting across the 6 movies.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Dyvim

[Dyvim]

The old animation and delay were better. Any competent player knows that the current Project's advantages far outweigh its disadvantages, but this change isn't aimed at skilled players.

 

It's aimed at the same people who fight all over the map and ignore objectives in warzones. If you're separated from your team and fighting a stealth class, a delay on project might affect the outcome of a pointless 1 v 1. That shouldn't have meant that Project got changed. Rather, it means that you're dumb and shouldn't have gotten separated from your team and started fighting a stealth class 1 v 1.

 

I hope they're merciful and just leave Project as it is, although I confess to deriving some pleasure from watching the uninformed or incompetent get precisely what they asked for.

 

~Sig

 

Really, why dont you list out the multiple ADVANTAGE(S) of old project. Because it only had one, and then only if you were shortsighted enough to fail to see that a gap in damage can more detrimental than "burst" damage can be beneficial. So please, your l337n3ss, list those multiples...lol.

 

It did have multiple DISADVANTAGES, however. The delay made the skill worthless in some cases. It gave opponents TIME to react and pop defenses. It shortened the effective window to use procs like force potency and particle acceleration by a second or more since the proc wasnt used until the damage ticked, and the damage was delayed by a second or more. Oh yeah, and magic junk conjuring looks stupid, always has. Pulling up rocks out of starship decks, or stone cauldrons, or droid scraps looks stupid and always has. And six movies show us that if someone is throwing junk, odds are its a sith, not a jedi. In fact jedi didnt throw a rock in 6 movies...using the force anyway.

[lexiekaboom]

It's insult to injury. It's been 7 months asking for the most simple thing that should have been there from day one; a mirrored ability. Instead they just make it look HORRIBLE without mirroring it. There is STILL a delay on the ability, you can't STILL end up with a rock hanging in the air, and you STILL can miss out on stopping someone on a cap.

 

So basically we got none of what we were asking for, but now have a horrible looking skill.

[Dystopic]

I don't care much about animations. I care about the results. If it is now instant than I am happy.