1.3 changes to sniper!

[erei]

Disappointed.

The sniper volley on demand is cool, granted. But the target acquired is more nerfed than buffed IMO.

I play mostly PVE, sometimes pvp. In pve, all my gear have accuracy. I have 101.75% base accuracy, and 111.75% special accuracy, while I only need 108% special accuracy. Base accuracy is useless, because it's only for rifle shot (very low damage, barely never used). I already struggle to find gear without accuracy to rip the mod.

And they grant +30% accuracy ? In pve it's useless. 140% accuracy is of no use. At all. What's left is 15% armor pen. Not very powerful.

And it's very very situational in pvp, against people who may use a dodge bonus. And yet, the bonus is probably so high you won't really hit anyway. Just use a CC, get away, and wait until the buff is down.

The alacrity bonus was awesome with 3SoS. Good DPS burst. Now, this is gone.

 

In the end, I don't think we will have an increase damage or anything. At most we will have the same damage output, and a leth sniper will still be better for 90% of the content. Less static, less LOS, more DPS, less armor check....

[tynt]

Yes another high valor rank guy claiming nonsense.

 

MM is shutdown/effected by so many abilities... I'm not going to name all of them as hopefully during you grind you have figured the 5 + abilities out.

 

Your statement about sorcs being interruptible makes me think you have below avg knowledge on at least Sorc pvp- more than likely entire game mechanics. Also lol at your comment about stun you know what I do to snipers who bunker down on my Sorc? Dot and LOS and heal. You know what I do on my op? Orbital strike and LOS / range them.

 

Anyway I do not think we are on the same lvl so I'll let you go believing whatever you want. Maybe when x server q is released I'll show you how much I'm lacking.

 

TL - DR Folks valor rank does not equal game knowledge or skill. 1.3 is right step for pvp snipers.

[Katrasle]

Yes another high valor rank guy claiming nonsense.

 

MM is shutdown/effected by so many abilities... I'm not going to name all of them as hopefully during you grind you have figured the 5 + abilities out.

 

Your statement about sorcs being interruptible makes me think you have below avg knowledge on at least Sorc pvp- more than likely entire game mechanics. Also lol at your comment about stun you know what I do to snipers who bunker down on my Sorc? Dot and LOS and heal. You know what I do on my op? Orbital strike and LOS / range them.

 

Anyway I do not think we are on the same lvl so I'll let you go believing whatever you want. Maybe when x server q is released I'll show you how much I'm lacking.

 

TL - DR Folks valor rank does not equal game knowledge or skill. 1.3 is right step for pvp snipers.

 

Want to know what I do when you LOS and/or run away to heal? I switch targets, congratulations you just willingly took yourself out of the fight because I used entrench. I know you believe you are all high and mighty because you seem to downplay the potential of MM and are enlightened because you see the wonderful world of the sorc which leads me to believe that your position is set in stone (perhaps mine is as well).

 

I know my capabilities as an MM sniper. I know that I can inflict a hell of a lot of damage on the other team in short bursts, as well as sustained. Of course MM can be shut down by abilities, DUH. But if you want to "shutdown" a sniper in entrench you have to run away (ignoring flashbang, debilitate, leg shot to keep you in sight for a few more seconds). Unless your entire team uses LOS, then the sniper will simply change targets and continue on his merry way.

 

Not even sure what your point is through arguing other than MM snipers are bad I guess? I was simply stating in my first post that we have the tools we needed (right now, not in 1.3) to be competitive in PvP and that waiting for 1.3 buffs will not help you if you have trouble right now.

[ZDProletariat]

MM tree was nerfed, bad imo. You can no longer cast 3 SoS back to back. Just 2. The CD reduction does not make up for this as there was almost no down time as is already, being able to activate the sniper volly on demand is nice but not at the cost of whats been done.

 

The alacrity boost removal from TA has also nerfed burst dmg output for MM. The combination of RF and TA gave massive dmg, especially if you had your - induction for Ambush proced.

 

The accuracy boost added to TA is useless, I already have as much accuracy as I need.

 

The armour pen is nice, but I don't think it will be enough to make up for the other nerfs especially if the CD remains the same... I'm very sad, along with the relic and adrenal changes to PvP they've basically taken away all our burst, which is what our job was and what we were supposed to do.

 

This is a huge nerf and I'm really sad....

 

Edit: the 45 sec CD on the top teir talent is nice though.

It's a fairly big buff actually. I'm not sure how you are looking at it as a nerf.

Let's look at this patch for SS in it's entirety.

The damage absorbed by Defense Screen now scales properly based on character stats. Buffed

Defense Screen scales properly with stats now. Before it was around 1750 and only with the 30% in middle tree could you actually make it better. Even with massive difference in stats, it didn't change by more than 100 hp absorbed or so. I made a post in this thread explaining how it worked http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=442249&page=3. We can assume it will now give much more damage absorbed, perhaps even putting it in line with the sage's shield. So around 2.5-3k.

 

Illegal Mods now increases Accuracy by 30% and Armor Penetration by 15% instead of increasing Alacrity. Buffed

I know some people went with the flavor of the month machine gun speed shot build. It was fun, but it was only fun on targets susceptible to the damage in the first place with no defenses to prevent it. With 15% armor penetration to ALL skills (which should make up most of the damage lost from relic changes) we will be hitting consistently harder when we activate it, and this will be our damage buff against tanks (which was a problem). But far more importantly, think of the marauder's saber ward. Now, whenever they use their 50% defense increase, we can use illegal mods to give us essentially 30% defense penetration, reducing their saber ward to only a 20% buff to defense, and only a 20% chance to deflect/parry our skills. That's huge against marauders and assassins and to a lesser extent juggernauts.

 

Charged Burst's visual effects now work correctly with color crystals. It now uses the correct visual effects when dual wielding.

I have to throw this in for fun, because now it's going to be very fun as a smuggler to lob big balls of colored paint at people. I know it doesn't affect you snipers, but be expected to be painted up for now on ;p

 

Rapid Fire is now a 3-point passive skill that reduces the cooldown of Aimed Shot and Speed Shot by 1 second per point.

We lost the third speed shot from rapid fire (which I never used in PVP anyway because it wasn't worth the point to get up to it), but to replace it our aimed shot and speed shot now have 3 seconds off their cd. The third speed shot isn't needed. Our damage will definitely go up since we can use speed shot more often and aimed shot more often (which is huge combined with our ability to increase armor penetration and accuracy). I know some of you went with the flavor of the month fad machine gun speed shot build. It's fun, but our SS spec is far more sustained damage now which is good for operations as well as extended battles. You don't need to blow so many buffs just to get off three fast speed shots. We can continue a very heavy damage rotation up all the time.

 

Burst Volley now finishes the cooldown of Speed Shot and increases Alacrity by 10% and Energy regeneration by 50% for 10 seconds. It has a 45-second cooldown.

Most of this was explained above, but we still get two speed shots along with everything else. We don't need a third since we can get back into the other skills faster.

 

I won't get into the buffs to saboteur because they are easily understood as buffs to that class. Suffice it to say that all the changes together will shore up our lack of defenses and ability to output damage at the targets we want. There is nothing here that can be understood as a nerf to anybody who has logged in a substantial amount of hours as SS.

[Celacia]

This. My burst is what made me scary. *sadface*

To be fair, this was just my kneejerk reaction. It may balance out. It may be better. Won't really know until we get to play with it.

[psi_overtake]

No one here is bringing up the most important change.

 

"The amount absorbed by Shield Probe now scales properly based on character stats."

 

Oh, I noticed. And I'm very happy about the change! Overall, great line-up of additions for the Sniper/GS.

 

while I only need 108% special accuracy.

 

It's 110%. And the Armor Penetration change will help (moreso for MM).

 

 

Now, if they only changed the set bonuses...

Edited June 6, 2012 by psi_overtake

[stuffystuffs]

I think I prefer the changes (especially the armor pen bonus)....losing 3 SoS isn't a big deal to me.

 

Will have to see how it plays out though.

[Livelyhound]

I think I prefer the changes (especially the armor pen bonus)....losing 3 SoS isn't a big deal to me.

 

Will have to see how it plays out though.

 

Likewise. Good changes for the most part I think.

[Tibbel]

There are really only 6 mechanical changes in the patch notes (so far, could change, not finalized, etc, etc...):

1. Shield Probe scaling "properly" -- Without verification, it's unknown whether this is a gain or loss. (Perhaps it was unintentionally scaling too well before.) Ideally it would scale with bonus tech damage rather than bonus healing, but the wording in the patch notes doesn't mention anything like that.
    
   
2. Redesigned Sniper Volley -- The 45-second cooldown is nice for a Series of Shots cooldown reset in terms of predictability; however, in an ideal sense, it's a small net loss for anyone who had 3/3 skill points in SV before (since that caused SV to proc more often than every 45 seconds, on average). Also, by separating the 2 cooldown-less Series of Shots, the value of burst alacrity is reduced. All the 10% alacrity boost really accomplishes in a sustained DPS environment is to save 0.35 seconds (from Orbital Strike plus its following Snipe) every 45 seconds. Of course, the energy regen is always nice, but it does lose some uptime from its current-on-live design.
    
   
3. Redesigned Rapid Fire -- For PvP, it will be nice to have a shorter cooldown on SoS and Ambush. In sustained DPS situations, however, this will not be a large boost. Ambush currently has an effective cooldown of 16.5 seconds when Reactive Shot is active or 17.5 when it isn't (because Ambush's cooldown doesn't start until the activation finishes, and you can't start the activation until the cooldown finishes). Lowering this to 13.5 or 14.5 seconds doesn't add a whole lot because it doesn't fit neatly into the 6-second FT sequence. It will interfere with Followthrough (which is more energy-efficient) and not have Reactive Shot active for it as often (because the 12-second cooldown of Series of Shots will line up with the 6-second sequence). Possibly a small theoretical gain at the cost of a much more complicated and unpredictable sustained DPS rotation.
    
   
4. Redesigned Target Acquired -- For PvP, again, another very nice buff. This is the button we'll push to actually start dealing damage to tanky opponents. Meanwhile, for PvE, Target Acquired could very well end up being absolutely worthless. For one, a sniper in an operation is almost assuredly already at the accuracy cap, so the 30% bonus won't add anything. Also, if armor debuffs continue to function as they have, then a sniper in a large ops group could very well have the boss already reduced to 0% armor through friendly players' applied debuffs. To be fair, sniping against a not-fully-debuffed boss will warrant the frequent use of Target Acquired. Subjective Note: Temporary accuracy effects are not fun. Why would I want to only hit with everything for 10 seconds every 2 minutes? Those other 110 seconds aren't going to be much fun at all. This is why most of us prefer to stack accuracy all the way to its cap, even if it's not always the statistically best option all the way to the cap. To be fair, this is the best sniper redesign so far.
    
   
5. Rapid Fire and Sniper Volley swapped positions and skill point costs -- For Pure MM snipers, this doesn't make any difference at all. For MM/Eng hybrid builds, this does add incentive to spec all the way into pure MM. There is also now added incentive to stay as MM/Eng, though, which is due to point #6 here:
    
   
6. Imperial Methodology now adds a fourth Cluster Bomb (and they can detonate faster, too) -- This not only adds the damage of the extra Cluster Bomb, but it also adds more energy return to Explosive Probe. What was already a very appealing skill is buffed by 50% on the damage side and 33% on the energy return side. It's hard to imagine that any Engineering snipers were skipping this skill (and it's the whole reason for existence of the MM/Eng spec), so apparently Engineering needs a small buff in damage and energy regen from where they sit currently on live. There are many weaker skills in the Engineering skill tree that could be buffed, but now one of the strongest has become stronger.

 

Overall

BASED ON THESE PRELIMINARY CHANGES

• Pure MM --
  • PvP: Moderate-to-large buff (depending on Shield Probe's change).
    
  • PvE: Slight nerf.

  [*]MM/Eng --

  • PvP: Slight-to-moderate buff (depending on Shield Probe's change).
    
  • PvE: Slight buff.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Tibbel

[ZDProletariat]

[*]Shield Probe scaling "properly" -- Without verification, it's unknown whether this is a gain or loss. (Perhaps it was unintentionally scaling too well before.) Ideally it would scale with bonus tech damage rather than bonus healing, but the wording in the patch notes doesn't mention anything like that.

I doubt it will be a loss since the one we are using now doesn't scale at all.

[NotRonin]

The reduction on cooldown of SoS/Ambush by 3 seconds will simply the rotation into 15 second segments, which will seriously mess up the 'FT every 6 second' rotation that is based on 18 second cycles.

 

Snipe -> FT -> SoS -> Ambush -> FT . That is 9 seconds. Energy consumption is 20 + 4 + 20 + 16 + 4 = 64. Over a minute, 4 cycle = 256 energy.

 

Then you have 24 seconds of 'whatever' : Snipe, Orbital strike, Probe, Shatter shot, etc. This cycle will work out better for MM/Eng compared to pure MM. Going on a 60 second cycle, that is 16 slots -

 

2 slots for 2x Explosive Probe x 2, which now returns 3 energy each time. (-6 energy)

3 slots for 1x Interrogation probe, (46 energy)

2 slot for 1x Orbital strike, (30 energy)

1 slot for shatter shot, (10 energy).

 

That's 80 energy, coming to a total of 336. Assuming the ideal energy regen of 360 energy per minute, and you have 24 energy left for Takedown.

 

I will no idea how a MM rotation will work. If you try to take advantage of the shortened Ambush, it'll be all over the place. Might end up having to use a 'priority based' system like pure Eng.

[Fallerup]

the only thing that saddens me is the loss of 1 SoS, instead of 3, I get 2... other than that, it is fine, as I don't PvP with my sniper. So from my P.O.V. this is a good thing

 

I adore most of the changes over all, especially the Juggernaut ones, they are now on par with the other 2 tanks (finally).

 

The Smart AoE is brilliant. Now you can CC and AoE without worry you will hit a CC'ed mob/player

[Altruismo]

congratulations you just willingly took yourself out of the fight because I used entrench.

 

No, he didn't.

Always this simplistic assumption that "LOS the sniper then heal" = "Healer out of fight".

Not even remotely.

Good healers can and will LOS you and maintain LOS on their teammates so they heal them.

You have switched targets to someone who is being healed by a healer who can basically freecast because you can't touch him, meaning you either move and lose entrench (a loss for you) or you stay put and let the healer free-cast (a loss for you).

GG Entrench.

It's a great power, but it's incredibly circumstantial and you really need to put it in perspective.

If any class had a root that could last up to 20 seconds it would be game-breakingly OP in PVP, with that in mind - actually think - how good can a power that only works if you don't move for up to 20 seconds really be?

 

[*]Shield Probe scaling "properly" -- Without verification, it's unknown whether this is a gain or loss. (Perhaps it was unintentionally scaling too well before.) Ideally it would scale with bonus tech damage rather than bonus healing, but the wording in the patch notes doesn't mention anything like that.

 

Ultimately, it depends entirely on what they mean by "properly".

By the existing formula, a full WH Sniper will get around 1.8-2k absorbtion from the probe.

Any change that does not drastically increase that ammount, since this is a defensive cooldown on a 45 second cooldown (in such illustrious company as force camo), is pretty much a waste of time and effort.

They should dump the absorb altogether, since it will always mean the power is either a poor-man's Static Barrier due to cooldown or OP due to excessive absorbtion, and put it on a flat damage reduction for 15s, say 15%, which is something that scales perfectly with everything.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Altruismo

[NoTomorrow]

Well pve wise, i liked the machine gun sniper 50% axtivation time for 3 SoS. Now it is gone. Pity as i will miss it. But hey, glad i dont play asassin, hahaha

[Wesgile]

Well pve wise, i liked the machine gun sniper 50% axtivation time for 3 SoS. Now it is gone. Pity as i will miss it. But hey, glad i dont play asassin, hahaha

i also did try the machinegun gunslinger for a few days some time ago, fun as heck. akimbo smgs.

[Lithy]

Agreed, however some tanks was almost impossible to burn down. These changes are very much a PvP boost to MM. I like it even though I already wreck face in PvP as MM :3

 

To those claiming we've lost burst due to adrenal/rapid fire nerf, you were doing it wrong. Even though I can easily pull off 3 SoS in a row in any WZ, you should front load EP and land Ambush+FT for instant 10k damage. Squishies die in 3-5 GCDs once you unload.

 

Looking forward to seeing these changes on live servers!

 

Squishies, yes. Throw in a leg shot first so they can't force speed away. On heavier targets though thats not enough, and while the armour pen boost is great I don't see the point in nerfing our ability to get things off fast on demand.

 

i also did try the machinegun gunslinger for a few days some time ago, fun as heck. akimbo smgs.

 

I never did that build, so that's not why I was complaining. The changes themselves are not bad, as I said. It's what we lost to get them that really get's to me.

 

My biggest complaint is to get maximum results we must use one SoS without an alacrity boost now then user sniper volly to reset the CD and get the boost, this isn't a good thing and besides completely screwing rotations, wastes times. It just wasn't thought out.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Lithy

[Katrasle]

No, he didn't.

Always this simplistic assumption that "LOS the sniper then heal" = "Healer out of fight".

Not even remotely....

 

From what I can tell from his post, he is a DPS sorc (not healer) and is only healing himself behind the wall, not his team mates (otherwise I would agree with you). Him hiding and healing has taken him out of the fight for a brief period of time because he is no longer doing his role (DPS).

 

edit: But anyway, I think I am done arguing about him / with him. He is a sorc who believes snipers are currently inadequate and I am a sniper who believes we are in a very nice spot.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Katrasle

[Calvin_Mago]

*** are you guys talking about? 1.3 looks amazing for sniper pvp. Only a nub or a PVE encounter would sit there and let you get 3 SoS off. Hell you were lucky to get 2 of them off. I wouldn't base my thoughts on what happens when you play againts bad players.

 

The biggest burst moves got improvements. Increased armor pen for SoS, TA made to further increase armor pen, lower cooldown on SoS and ambush, and a very good 31 talent MM tree.

 

Sometimes I just do not get people. These changes are awesome - I retired my 50 sniper because I refuse to play anything but MM however MM was just lacking in PVP. These changes will make him come back if made in to live server.

I don't see how getting 3 series of shots off in 6 seconds was useless in PVP or how now getting 2 off in 6 seconds is somehow better.

 

Count me among the slightly disappointed, as I largely was expecting the armor penetration buff, but didn't expect losing the burst that let me quickly burn down the cross-healed healers. Now I will consider spec'ing back into MM/Eng rather than full MM.

[Raisatihane]

i cant see nothing good there - its a pure nerf for MM tree (alas snipers)

while i dont pvp much, IMO 30/15% is questionable... as sniper was never ment to be some kinda of "tank killer" + that "boost", as some refere, is joke by tank killing means anyway

 

What we lose

BURST - its.. gone! While smart sniper today can use tiny-tiny time window to land great amount of dmg! Quick and deadly. Gone - no more! forget... pew-pew and call urself a sniper...

 

And second part of that lost burst comes from here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=463539

The "on use" abilities on relics have been altered. The magnitude of their stat buffs has been decreased, but the duration of the buff has been increased. This reduces burst damage, but sustained damage is unchanged.

 

All i can see from this - its intentional! Why not just delete whole MM tree, ah? And make instead something like "Bad poison gunman" ("Bad" name - sells good!)

 

And last one.

What aboult simple cut off 4000-6000K dmg?? Gone!

Im talking about lost SOS

(it might not be useful in PVP but it WAS useful in PVE!)

 

I cannot see why OP is so happy? what did i miss? As you gain NOTHING more (well 30/15% joke yes) - we have all those abilitys - just under diff. names.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Raisatihane

[NoTomorrow]

My problem here is with smiper volley providing alacrity only to one series of shots.

[warstory]

i think people are missing that relics were nerfed so can no longer pop a relics

[Shecrazy]

Its funny, because when I read the changes I thought to myself ***** this was clearly tailored to increase the **** out of MM dps (as it clearly does) and now MM might beat out lethality... dammit I hope that isn't the case since I already finished my full campaign lethality set and don't much feel like re-modding it for MM*

 

But I guess the echo's in here are convinced otherwise.

 

~Ohm

~Exit area

[tynt]

Yea and some people think this is a dps nerf LOL. These changes are awesome for MM.

[Katrasle]

Its funny, because when I read the changes I thought to myself ***** this was clearly tailored to increase the **** out of MM dps (as it clearly does) and now MM might beat out lethality... dammit I hope that isn't the case since I already finished my full campaign lethality set and don't much feel like re-modding it for MM*

 

But I guess the echo's in here are convinced otherwise.

 

~Ohm

~Exit area

 

Believe it or not, but you don't have to respec to something that is flavor of the month in order to remain viable in raids/pvp. Just stay the spec that you enjoy playing...

[BongoFrenzy]

With the 3 seconds shorter cooldowns for Ambush and SoS we will finally be able to skip some fillers...

 

...which is awesome.