Turned off lvl 50 pvp straight away

[looneybinjim]

Unfortunately your buddy could only do that because his guild carried him in PVP and let him amass a ton of wins. If you win then it is easy to get BM in 2-3 days. If you lose but try, as what happens to many fresh 50's, they get 20 maybe 30 commendations. At 30 commendations a Warzone at the average of 20 minutes per pop, that is around 50 matches, or 24+ hours non-stop for just the BM chest piece alone.

 

Edit:

And note: I'm in fully augment slotted full PVP gear. I've done my time and even I don't think it is fair.

 

this is pure rubbish. maybe with the old system this was the case. nowadays a good player with recruit gear will come away with a minimum of around 60 comms per game for a loss (and its possible to get 90-100 or so) the exception being when your team meets that premade from hell and your whole team gets rolled. in this case noone gets many medals. thankfully (on my server at least) this is a rare event.

 

getting 8 medals in most games isnt difficult if you have a bit about you. if you dont, gear isnt likely to help you much.

[DarthOvertone]

The difference between full recruit gear and full war hero is not that big. Two people in recruit gear should easily be able to take out a person in full war hero.

 

Actually, this isn't true. The statistical gulf between Recruit Gear and WH Gear is pretty massive, especially if the veteran players are in Augmented WH gear. Expertise stat variance is only one layer of the PvP gearing system. Aggregate Base Stats is another layer. A new 50 really doesn't stand much of a chance until they are in full BM Gear.

 

Now getting full BM is much easier to do these days. It really only takes a couple weeks. But those couple weeks are undoubtedly rough, especially when a player is solo queuing against well-oiled premade machines. At this point, even full BM isn't enough. New 50s should really be pushing to gear up in full Augmented BM.

[SlimsPicken]

Does nobody play these games simply because they enjoy them? Why does everything (PvP and PvE) have to have an objective (gear grind...even the name implies it is a chore) other than enjoyment?

At the end of the day this is just a game and if people need to achieve objectives they should maybe try achieving RL objectives then they may, just may, start playing games for fun again.

If you have had a full day of achieveing RL objectives and you sit down for a bit of relaxing PvP and you die repeatedly it is far easier to put it all into perspective and laugh it off and learn from it.

 

Yeah i dont know where it all went wrong, but enjoyment takes a back seat to making customers grind grind grind to keep subs active...the carrot is always dangling on the stick and theres no time to just enjoy playing the actual games... sad. Gear>>> everything else.

 

The whole MMO genre is corrupted by this flawed design mechanic.

[Funick]

my advice to fresh 50s is don't try to fight full war hero people in straight up fights, either take advantage of numbers, learn your enemies weaknesses. My fresh 50 vanguard (pre 1.2) in 2 pieces of centurion beat a full BM jugg 1v1 by kiting my *** off.

 

really learning to succeed while under geared will make you a far better player, there are plenty of geared people who are really bad, you don't want to be one of them.

[Astarica]

Actually, this isn't true. The statistical gulf between Recruit Gear and WH Gear is pretty massive, especially if the veteran players are in Augmented WH gear. Expertise stat variance is only one layer of the PvP gearing system. Aggregate Base Stats is another layer. A new 50 really doesn't stand much of a chance until they are in full BM Gear.

 

Now getting full BM is much easier to do these days. It really only takes a couple weeks. But those couple weeks are undoubtedly rough, especially when a player is solo queuing against well-oiled premade machines. At this point, even full BM isn't enough. New 50s should really be pushing to gear up in full Augmented BM.

 

The difference between WH and Recruit is considerable but so is the advantage of a 2 to 1.

 

Let's assume you have 3 characters with identical skill/class in a 1on2. Let's say the 2 guys are in Recruit gear and have 1000 DPS and 10K HP. For the side of the 1 to fight to a draw, he needs 2000 DPS and 15K HP, because it'll go like this:

 

The side with 1 attacks 1 guy, kills him in 5 seconds.

 

In 5 seconds the 2 guys do 1000*2*5 = 10K damage.

 

The 1 guy now has 5K HP left (15K-10K) and he still does 2000 DPS, versus a 10K HP guy doing 1K DPS.

 

If nothing weird happens they end up killing each other at the same time.

 

This is completely ignoring the fact that the side with the 2 have twice the offensive/defensive CDs to use. Just a straight up exchange of hits.

 

Now usually the guys in Recruit gear has less experience and so on but it's not like you're supposed to be at fault for having more experience than your opponent.

 

Winning 1on2 is pretty much a statistical impossibilty if everything else (class/skill mostly) is equal. You simply don't do twice the DPS while having 50% more survivality compared to a Recruit gear guy.

[Asukaa]

Again making the assumption that i havnt pvped in this game. I pvped while leveling and it was a very fun and enjoyable experience that wasnt focused on how much gea you had, but on how well you played. The only thing that seperates lvl 50 pvp from pre 50 is the gear... Its exactly the same game, same arenas, same skills, same classes...

 

This is wrong. Bolster is affected by gear. I am leveling an alt now and try to put any many epics on him as possible. It makes a huge difference and at level 20 I was dominating people who were level 49. Marauders, PT's, Assassins, you name it, I was killing it. I can 3v1 people in pre 50 wz's. Why? Because of gear scaling. I kept another one of my alts at level 49 for a long time, leaving WZ's before the end so I didn't gain XP. I had almost all of my gear epic'ed out. I was only missing epic trinkets which are not in the game pre 50 I believe. I was a god in WZ's, getting over 500k dmg done. Not saying that I didn't have skill, cause even with that gear, without the skill you'd only get half as much.

 

You sir, need to l2p. You shouldn't be having that big a problem with all recruit. The problem is between your chair and keyboard. Read class forums, look up rotations, learn to pop defensive CD's early and not when you're at 10% life, farm warzone medpacs if you're not Biochem. Work on your skills so that the gear becomes secondary at best. I don't want to troll you but so many people come here and just complain about the wrong things. Spend 2 days doing nothing but WZ's and you'll get AT LEAST 90% of your BM gear.

[Belgiangrump]

The way to balance recruit gear is very simple though...These are the problems they'd have with making recruit gear too strong: add too many stats on it, and it's pointless to farm HM flashpoints cause recruit gear would render more stats then the loot dropped there.

 

If they wanna make sure that recruit gear does not trump the gear from lower tiers of PvE, but still allow players in recruit gear to not be stomped by those in BM/WH without even being able to dent them, the simplest solution is to give recruit gear an insane ammount of expertise on it.

if BM gear has eg 100% expertise, WH has 112% expertise, give recruit gear 150% expertise. Since recruit gear has a lot less other stats, it should about even out the damage output and survival of a recruit geared peep to the area of BM with the difference BM gives more health. The person in recruit won't be completely useless but at least he won't be fodder anymore.

[Smashbrother]

The way to balance recruit gear is very simple though...These are the problems they'd have with making recruit gear too strong: add too many stats on it, and it's pointless to farm HM flashpoints cause recruit gear would render more stats then the loot dropped there.

 

If they wanna make sure that recruit gear does not trump the gear from lower tiers of PvE, but still allow players in recruit gear to not be stomped by those in BM/WH without even being able to dent them, the simplest solution is to give recruit gear an insane ammount of expertise on it.

if BM gear has eg 100% expertise, WH has 112% expertise, give recruit gear 150% expertise. Since recruit gear has a lot less other stats, it should about even out the damage output and survival of a recruit geared peep to the area of BM with the difference BM gives more health. The person in recruit won't be completely useless but at least he won't be fodder anymore.

 

Terrible idea. Why would people work harder to get gear that isn't as good.

 

The best way would be to normalize the expertise between all pvp gear, so that going up tiers in pvp would only get you more base stats and not more expertise. This would still be significant enough that people are willing to grind for a higher tier of gear.

[Erasimus]

Ur right i want a level playing field... It called player vs player that should be pitting raw skill mano e mano against another person. No stats purely cosmetic gear as rewards would be perfect. Gear and stats is the way of the past. New mmos are trying to bring the skill concept back to the genre... Look at the secret world as a perfect example!

 

Pvpers are just scared that they wont have their expertise and higher stats to hide behind anymore if tha goes. They wont be as good as they are now. Heaven forbid tey will actually have to try in pvp again. I remember a time before resilience (and pvp gear for that matter) in wow. It was amazing.

 

Yah, I remember those days in WoW. I ROFL Stomped all the non-raiders, it was great. No way did I want people that couldn't do 40 person raids to be able to compete with me

 

Get real, the recruit set is fine for beginning. I do fine on my Sniper that just turned 50 with his recruit plus 2 piece BM that I bought the day I turned 50. Do I get stomped at times, yes, but when I'm up against a pre-made or just a plain better player.

[Vycwulf]

Well, let's look at this from another angle. As a fresh 50 without a lot of gear do you expect to be functional in a top tier PVE raid? Would you even get an invite? Doubtful.

 

Well, that's what the level 50 warzones are buddy, they are the top tier pvp arenas atm til rated warzones hit. Take your lumps or pve. Sorry if that's blunt, but that's how I see it.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Vycwulf

[Fracta]

This seems equivalent to saying "We can't do nightmare operations in level 50 greens."

 

Removing gear progression from pvp would just be stupid.

[Asukaa]

Well, let's look at this from another angle. As a fresh 50 without a lot of gear do you expect to be functional in a top tier PVE raid? Would you even get an invite? Doubtful.

 

Well, that's what the level 50 warzones are buddy, they are the top tier pvp arenas atm til rated warzones hit. Take your lumps or pve. Sorry if that's blunt, but that's how I see it.

 

I think I know what it is with OP. He might be melee. And I will agree, as melee you will get rofl stomped. But that is also the case in full BM/WH for a melee. If you are the first one to run in, you will be the first one to die unless you are guarded and have a pocket healer. I've tried to gear up my Marauder but I gave up. I'm way too impatient when it comes to dps'ing and I charge right in all the time. And I am in half BM half recruit. I gave up on it cause I would get my face rolled as soon as I leaped in, but that was my fault. I needed to hang back and pick my fights. I do not have a tank guarding me or a pocket healer, I solo queue. But my play style habits make me rush in, and therefore I get face stomped "American History X" style on the marauder when my camo and guarded by the force are on CD.

 

Maybe try hanging back and not being the first to rush in. Instead, stop and look for healers, then mark them. Be helpful. Post in ops chat that you marked the healers at your node. Then get on the healers you just marked. I'm not a great team player so I usually let someone else do all that and I am sure a lot of other people are like that as well. I do however get on the healers asap. And if no healers are around, look for snipers and bum rush them while they are focused on someone else.

[tynt]

I can see where op is coming from.. I do believe that they need to lower the cost of bm and wh gear and that will help out a lot.

 

PVPers don't care about gear, it's PVEers who PVP that care about gear.

 

That being said I do not want to see pve gear in pvp at all.

[Zbus]

I know this is going to sound kinda bad but OP did you not stockpile your coms pre 50? Considering the complaint you put forth it seems to me if you had planned it out a little better your gear woe's might have been mittigated by a very large margin.

[Khoraji]

I can see where op is coming from.. I do believe that they need to lower the cost of bm and wh gear and that will help out a lot.

 

PVPers don't care about gear, it's PVEers who PVP that care about gear.

 

That being said I do not want to see pve gear in pvp at all.

 

They already lowered the cost of BM significantly in 1.2

 

It takes 2 weeks to get full BM for a casual PvPer (if your on a server that isnt dead). That is in no way too much.

 

War hero is a bit excessive yes, but its also not that big of an improvement.

[lavatious]

The difference between full recruit gear and full war hero is not that big. Two people in recruit gear should easily be able to take out a person in full war hero.

 

If you're getting stomped it's probably because you're running into premades with good communication and class balance.

 

what dream land you livin in the survival rate of recruit gear is 4 seconds instead of 3 without it boom your body explodes and your head pops off every time......2 recruits attackin my tank should change their weapons for feathers it would be more effective tbh.

[Jandia]

gear makes a differnece.. i dont know a single mmo where it doesnt when it comes to pvp.

I know several. Shadowbane is one example. Best PvP I ever played. I've seen an

where the side with 18 people won and only lost two guys. Now that is skill based PvP. It was extremely easy to get the best gear in the game, but designing a group was like designing a deck in Magic: The Gathering. The PvP was based on personal skill, group design skill, strategy etc. Gear had little to nothing to do with it. Edited May 29, 2012 by Jandia

[kitsinni]

I know several. Shadowbane is one example. Best PvP I ever played. I've seen an

where the side with 18 people won and only lost two guys. Now that is skill based PvP. It was extremely easy to get the best gear in the game, but designing a group was like designing a deck in Magic: The Gathering. The PvP was based on personal skill, group design skill, strategy etc. Gear had little to nothing to do with it.

 

So if you didn't have the gear would you still be competitive? Honeslty any game where 18 beat 54 sounds like it is missing a lot of skill.

[Jandia]

So if you didn't have the gear would you still be competitive? Honeslty any game where 18 beat 54 sounds like it is missing a lot of skill.

It took like a day or two to get the gear. Why would anyone ever not have it? You have that wrong on the skill. People beating larger numbers could be because of ridiculously OP gear like expertise crap in WoW clones, but it could also be because the game has a really high skill ceiling. For example what do you think the chances are of a group of three random scrubs ever beating say Gosu or BoxeR at Starcraft even 3 on 1? The 3 would lose 100% of the time. I myself have beaten several people at once on FPS games. Neither of those genres even have gear. Keep in mind SB was a game where it took like a couple of days of farming to buy the best gear and about a week to soft cap your level. Pretty much all fights were even, excluding numbers and skill. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would think it was a good idea to have a stat like expertise that gives you an automatic win against newer players regardless of skill.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Jandia

[kitsinni]

It took like a day or two to get the gear. Why would anyone ever not have it? You have that backwards on the skill. For example what do you think the chances are of a group of three random scrubs ever beating say Gosu or BoxeR at Starcraft even 3 on 1? The 3 would lose 100% of the time.

 

Well my point about the gear is that it is another game that gear matters in PvP it is just really easy to get the gear.

 

I never played that game so I might be completely wrong but I have yet to see any game where skill is involved and the other team is that much more skilled to kill 18 to 54 without there being some serious gear/level imbalances. Maybe that is the case and that game just plays extremely differently then the games I have played for the last decade or so.

 

Starcraft is so different from an MMO that I wouldn't even know how to begin to compare starcraft to them.

Edited May 29, 2012 by kitsinni

[Jandia]

Well my point about the gear is that it is another game that gear matters in PvP it is just really easy to get the gear.

 

I never played that game so I might be completely wrong but I have yet to see any game where skill is involved and the other team is that much more skilled to kill 18 to 54 without there being some serious gear/level imbalances. Maybe that is the case and that game just plays extremely differently then the games I have played for the last decade or so.

Like I said, designing a group was like designing a Magic: The Gathing deck. Hypothetically, 30 mage assassins could beat 100 axe barbarians simply because the barbs would never catch them. On the other hand against throwing barbs the situation would be reversed because a mage assassin is never going to kill a barb without going OOM half way through the fight and because kiting isn't an issue they'd be dead long before they regen enough. Because it's so quick to level most people had a ton of characters so guilds could generally field many types of spec groups depending on the situation. You have to look at group composition like you would look at a character build. That's just one of the many ways skill was a big factor. Organization was also a huge factor. Logistics to some extent. If you sneak a bunch of assassins behind enemy lines and kill their summon chain suddenly they have no reinforcements. If they had scouts that doesn't work and your assassins get pwned, leaving you with less numbers to fend off the counter attack. Strategy was a big thing too.

 

Edit: Sentinels had a ridiculously huge damage AOE that's targeted at themselves. Kind of like force wave with +500% damage, but the down side is that it hits you too so it's kind of like suicide bombing. Bards had a short term invincibility buff they could use to protect the sentinels from themselves. One thing that was always a fun tactic was having wizards group teleport sentinels and bards into the enemy horde. There were all kinds of cool tricks like that you could do.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Jandia

[AshlaBoga]

If by "fair" you mean a guy who just dinged 50 has the same gear as a guy who has done 15 days in a warzone? No.

 

You dont actually want "fair" you want to instantly be on a level playing field with those who have invested more time. That is by definition, not fair. PvP is fair, you put in the time like we did (which is nothing now, my guildie got full BM in 2 days flat at the weekend from fresh 50), you get the same gear- then we can have an equal fight based on skill.

 

Again, only somebody who doesnt actually understand PvP in this game would complain about expertise, since as i explained you can remove that and you would still get smashed. What you guys want is PvP with no stats at all- im sorry but thats not a RPG or MMO anymore, so its not going to happen.

 

Simply put, if you dont want any player to ever have a statistical numbers advantage over you? better play Street Fighter.

 

Edit: the time it took you to come here and complain you could have earned a BM item...

 

Yeah, if I grind for a full War Hero set and you have recruit then I should have at least some advantage.

 

If this wasn't the case NO ONE WOULD BUY BATTLEMASTER OR WAR HERO GEAR!

[Tatebomb]

The difference between full recruit gear and full war hero is not that big. Two people in recruit gear should easily be able to take out a person in full war hero.

 

If you're getting stomped it's probably because you're running into premades with good communication and class balance.

 

Is this a serious post? Since you should be able to take out a guy 2v1 the difference isn't that big?

 

I do believe in gear progression and I am currently taking my licks grinding out gear with my newest 50 but the difference between recruit and WH is massive. And it's not even just the expertise difference it's the rest of the stats. Endurance is sorely lacking on that stuff.

[SinnedQWERTY]

10-49 pvp was a blast for me...

 

I stopped playing pvp games when I reached 50 on my op. Leveling an alt again with a good side dish of pvp again when the wz q's permit it. Having fun again. When I reach 50, same story I guess.

 

I doubt I'm gonna enjoy lving alt #XXX through it all again ... so this is more Bio's call. I also doubt the hardcore pvp crowd minding the following suggestion, as it's all about skill anyway.

 

Keep lvl 50 non-ranked wz games like the 1-49 games... normalize the stats.

 

This way you can have ranked games .. all about skill (but being influenced by gear). But that doesn't matter, as it's all about skill anyway.

 

... and the casuals non-ranked games fair and boring, but that wouldn't interest the ranked & geared out people anyway.

 

Win / win right? Because after all, this isn't about farming lesser geared people in anyway. After x-server WZ Q's, ranked and normal ... this would make everyone happy.

 

Except the people farming non-geared peeps in pvp while in a premade. But I can't imagine these pvp gods lowering themselves to that level.

 

So everyone is happy... The pve/casual pvp crowd can club each others skulls in the non-ranked normalized games.

 

The PvP lords can have their ranked/non-ranked & premade vs premade gear influenced games all about skill.

 

...and there was peace in the galaxy.

Edited May 29, 2012 by SinnedQWERTY

[-Eternal-]

As a fresh 50 with full recruit gear... Pvp is still depressing. I really enjoyed pvp while leveling... But at 50 i did not enjoy going in and not even be able to put a dint in the opposition. Being facerolle in pvp because everyone out gears you is not fun and just a turnoff.

 

Pvp should be about skill... Having pvp gear that mitigates player dmg etc destroys that concept. As a fresh 50 im not expecting to faceroll people but a fair fight would be nice.

 

 

 

PVP at 50 is horrible in it's current state. As soon as you roll to 50, it becomes a button smash, glass cannon battle, excluding Marauders of course which are just dumb OP at the moment. Its like going 35 mph in a residential zone then hitting the freeway at 70mph. It can be shocking for the first time.