Server Transfer vs Server Merges and the Great Hypocrisy

[NWsmuggler]

Sadly, I think it is too little too late. The window of opportunity for a game like this to take hold becomes smaller and smaller as we become less patient and more ADD as a society. People are not going to wait around for server transfers or mergers at some point later in the summer. No. An MMO needs to be able to quickly adapt to whatever happens with their server population or just suffer the consequences of what is happening here. Maybe this will be a lesson to future MMOs, It is too bad. Could have been a great game. Now it won't have enough people to support it becoming that.

[Astralll]

Mega Servers are a better solution to bring the population together. A character transfer service is not a bad idea. If we are going to move toward character transfers first, then server merges second, most likely it is to give people choices. Then BW will analyze the data and make a fair population decision. There is also the issue of Legacy names. So a database solution is needed. And to make it perfect it takes time, testing, and time.

 

Another issue I want to bring up is that a lot of us don't really have a back ground in software development. Nor do we understand that development cycles take time. You can't rush content out, it has to be tested and perfected. With that in mind I would love to see BioWare and Lucas Arts take more of a CCP approach such as Eve Online does with an almost daily dev blog. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp

 

We also have to separate definitions between developer and manager. Programmer, artist, QA, vs Manager. We need to make intelligent communications instead of rants. Rants will be ignored.

 

Game development is not instant. I know that is frustrating to hear. It is just the truth. I am not saying the game is perfect besides the PvE. I am saying BioWare knows, and the developers know. Now we need to see the solutions added and communicated. I believe this is where we get frustrated is that communications are always cryptic. LA's need to lighten up. BioWare needs more independence. Let's not make the same mistakes SWG did because of the license.

 

All I see are community members who seriously want this game to be top dog. Lets unite under that banner.

 

Now this post is not pertaining to anyone-

 

I think mega servers should have the following:

 

1.) Population capped at 10k-20k

2.) Solution for Legacy Names.

3.) Almost daily developer blogs.

4.) Web or VTC meetings with the player population. -Monthly

5.) Dueling arenas like KOTOR in social areas.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Astralll

[Alkiii]

Can anyone name a game that merged servers in the first year?

 

Age of Conan, Rift, Aion, Warhammer, and I think City of Villains.

[pixel_dust]

Yesterday was already late.

 

Word! How many MMO's offer transerf? Almost all of em. So, EA has about a million models to emulate. A quality MMO would have a transfer system in place at launch.

[Reoni]

NA has over 120 servers, transfers by themselves are not a good idea. You need to reduce the server limit by about half (who knows maybe more). If during the merge multiple guild/char names exist give them the option to transfer to another server.

 

There is no magic way to make all the bad go away. There are way too many servers, reduce that and you should bring people back and bring more here.

[ShockkWave]

The guy who started this thread is my new best friend. I have been posting the same **** has him for over a month and been shut down 4 times. Let me say this to everyone who says server merge is not the way, listen closely. IT WILL HAPPEN ANY WAY!! Weather you like it or not. When Bioware comes out with the free chara transfer what do you think will happen????? I will tell you once again, people will leave from dying servers and leave those servers they are leaving DEAD! So are you ready for this? Those servers that are ghost towns will be shut down any way and the few people that have stayed loyal to that server will be merged no matter what. Really? You don't mean to tell me this will happen. You can bet your sweet butt it will. And what happens to the guild banks when we will be relocated? Does the guild leader get all that money back plus all the items? Server shut downs and mergers will happen and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. I bet right now they can cut the servers in half and the game would excell. Now you can say what you want to say about this comment but it's true. No way Bioware will leave servers open with 20 people in them, and that totally defeats the purpose of the LFG tool. How are you gonna find a game with no one on in your server. Truth hurts, but it's still the truth

[Unkknownsith]

Can anyone name a game that merged servers in the first year?

 

Warhammer

 

What prize do I win?

[Cerion]

Not hypocrisy, although that's a really dramatic word so the OP's goal has been achieved.

 

Transfers allow people to have the choice of where they want to go. Mergers are very 'big brother' making the decision for the player. Mergers also force people to move who may not want to move. Transfers are the best compromise for all parties involved at this time.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Cerion

[Unkknownsith]

Wow some of you people surprise me in your lack of logic .... WHOLE server emrges are NOT as simple as the click of a button ... it us physically impossible to do a full server merge and if they did ALOT of people would be upset.

 

Like seriously step back and look at the situation

1. Legacy crossovers

2. name crossovers

3. Guild crossovers

 

I can tell you right now that id be upset if I had to rename my characters and half of them were already taken.

 

Just a thought.

 

Here's just a thought what would you prefer to stand on the fleet and scream and hear an echo that reverberates around the fleet for an hour or to pick up your sad puny legacy rebuild it and have ton's of other players to run heroic 2/4 flashpoints/operations/warfronts until your fingers get cramped and sore and you have to log off exhausted from all the content you've run.

 

In the end which is more important to you?????????

 

Furthermore if Bioware had done the legacy system right, from the beginning we wouldn't be facing this crap to begin with. All they had to do was make the legacy bound to account NOT whatever toon you maxed out first and this issue would never have happened. Thus NO matter where you went be it Republic, Imperial PVP/PVE/RP your legacy would have traveled with you and you would retain all benefits from it.

 

Seriously and I'm sorry Bioware but this is 2012, you had more than enough time to look at successful and failed mmo launches through the years, YOU should have been able to make your launch successful with Zero gaffs/major blunders.

 

P.S. Easiest way Bioware for a server merge to ALLOW you to save face, select 5 servers as a destination server of choice, let people select what server out of the block of 5 they want to go to. Once you have enough to make a reasonable population - that is when you do the bulk of transfers. Then with the old server's rename them "Future Expansion" and leave them sit vacant and you save face!

Edited May 25, 2012 by Unkknownsith

[Rayla_Felana]

Mega Servers are a better solution to bring the population together. A character transfer service is not a bad idea. If we are going to move toward character transfers first, then server merges second, most likely it is to give people choices. Then BW will analyze the data and make a fair population decision. There is also the issue of Legacy names. So a database solution is needed. And to make it perfect it takes time, testing, and time.

 

Another issue I want to bring up is that a lot of us don't really have a back ground in software development. Nor do we understand that development cycles take time. You can't rush content out, it has to be tested and perfected. With that in mind I would love to see BioWare and Lucas Arts take more of a CCP approach such as Eve Online does with an almost daily dev blog. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp

 

We also have to separate definitions between developer and manager. Programmer, artist, QA, vs Manager. We need to make intelligent communications instead of rants. Rants will be ignored.

 

Game development is not instant. I know that is frustrating to hear. It is just the truth. I am not saying the game is perfect besides the PvE. I am saying BioWare knows, and the developers know. Now we need to see the solutions added and communicated. I believe this is where we get frustrated is that communications are always cryptic. LA's need to lighten up. BioWare needs more independence. Let's not make the same mistakes SWG did because of the license.

 

All I see are community members who seriously want this game to be top dog. Lets unite under that banner.

 

Now this post is not pertaining to anyone-

 

I think mega servers should have the following:

 

1.) Population capped at 10k-20k

2.) Solution for Legacy Names.

3.) Almost daily developer blogs.

4.) Web or VTC meetings with the player population. -Monthly

5.) Dueling arenas like KOTOR in social areas.

 

Best post in the thread.

[Mikeflowz]

Can anyone name a game that merged servers in the first year?

 

Aion

 

/10 chars

[bmhale]

One of my fellow guild officers was discussing this not too long ago. He, a long-time WoW veteran, figured it would be a pointless free High -> Low transfer scheme, but I have to disagree. Now, I never played WoW (or bothered with any other MMORPG for that matter), but I have seen media reports of mergers, usually written in a less-than-favorable tone. To avoid that, I'd suggest the transfer service should work something like this:

 

They will likely (or at least should) open a handful of Standard servers as the initial Destination servers, and allow free transfers from both the Light servers as well as the Very Heavy servers. Those that want to consolidate their avatars on one of those already-overloaded servers will probably have to pay, or they could opt for moving all avatars from both the High and Low server to a Standard one for free. With time and proper notification for less-active subscribers, the Standard servers will become heavy enough to fully take advantage of the MMO aspects of the game. Holdouts will eventually either transfer or unsubscribe, allowing the Light server's population to eventually drop to zero. Then, the excess servers can be gradually trimmed away and escape the inevitable media outcry, as opposed to a sudden shutdown of several servers at once.

 

Naming will likely still be an issue, and some of the transferring people will probably have to rename their characters' first and last names, and some guilds may require renaming as well. It'd be nice if they added a notice of some sort that says "A character named XXX already exists on this server! Do you wish to continue with the transfer to this server?" (as well as similar notice for Legacy names). Guilds would probably require reregistration on the new server, so a heads-up of that sort might not be possible. Nevertheless, they could coordinate their move, reform on the new server, and choose a new name if necessary.

 

Yes, in the end, the servers are still being merged, just a with a bit of stealth. It also provides some freedom of choice, thereby avoiding some of the negative press and dodging the anger from some of users.

[Sasheria]

There are couple of ways BW can do this.

 

1. DCUO way - Mega servers (or super servers per interview) Everyone is moved to the mega-servers. Each player will have a name_servername and legacy_servername. When you log in, you are given ONE free name change and one FREE legacy name change item (none tradable, non sellable, bound to character) First person in can change to the name they want (Legacy and Name) of course with confirmation to ensure people don't input silly name by accident.

 

2. Soft merge via implementation of LAST names (I know Legacy does this but change it a bit) so people can keep their first name and have a last name. now sending tell would require a full name. This may not be ideal, but many people will get to keep their name.

[Hellyeah_Rook]

Unfortunately I have to disagree with OP and call the WAAAAAAHMBULANCE.

 

I'd rather have the choice to transfer, if I didn't like the merge. As for guilds, your guild must be incredibly unorganized if they can't get through a merge/transfer. As for nemesis and enemies, there are a plethora of other players out there to replace them. And to be frank, what's stopping those special snowflakes from quitting out of boredom? You'd rage then about needing server merges, and transfers.

 

tl;dr QQ moar op.

[pureeffinmetal]

I like that half the people in this thread keep quoting the guy asking for a game that merged servers in the first year, just so they can answer him and prove their intellectual superiority by proving him wrong. Priorities!

 

On topic:

 

Merging servers is a pretty messy process. You potentially create problems for multiple people when it comes to guild, character and in SWTOR's unique case, legacy names.

 

Unfortunately regardless of the method you choose, someone is going to get screwed out of tier name(s). There is NO perfect solution despite what you may think otherwise.

 

I mean seriously people, all anyone complains about is the lack of population, the population being too spread out, too many servers etc. Now that Bioware is going to do something about it (hopefully soon) you complain that they're doing it the wrong way? BEFORE THEY HAVE EVEN DONE IT?

[Ozzone]

The problem lies completely at BW's feet for two important reasons.

 

First of all, BW should have anticipated the launch better. They deliberately capped the servers too low at launch which forced players to wait for queues. While it made some sense since their goal was to allow some time for the first players to get on the server to level up and spread out to eliminate zone congestion as more and more players created chars, they blew it when instead of incrementally raising caps and opening a few servers as needed for overflow, they opened tons of new servers which spread the population out too thinly before they raised the caps. This didn't seem to be a problem with the flood of new players coming in, but it was an accident waiting to happen once the initial onslaught of players started thinning out. Unfortunately, by this time, many players were well into their 20s and 30s (at least) and were not about to start from scratch on a different server since population was sufficient on their server. By opening tons of new servers, they were painting themselves into a PR nightmare corner and probably didn't see it coming (which they should have).

 

Secondly, legacy added a massive complexity to transfers/mergers. It should be pretty obvious to most people that the whole point of legacy is damage control for lack of endgame. Legacy wasn't designed to benefit endgame but clearly herd players into re-rolling over and over. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that. Legacy should have been put on hold until population issues were resolved in the first 3-4 months but BW couldn't wait because tons of players had level 50s with very little endgame and legacy was the carrot on a stick to keep player subbing. Of course it was packaged as a massive feature to enhance the game experience, but it's clear to anyone with half a brain it is really meant to keep players from being stuck with endgame that really doesn't exist.

 

The reason I am discussing the past mistakes is because BW is at the point that they have to figure out how to get themselves out of the painted corner they put themselves in. With no viable endgame any time soon, they had better do something soon or they will continue to see tons of servers become absolute ghost towns. The less people log on due to low population only exacerbates the problem for others on the server still trying to hold on. As many have pointed out, when there's only a few dozen players active during prime time, community becomes non-existent which is the lifeblood of MMOs. BW better deal with this soon or the PR nightmare (which they are trying to avoid) only becomes worse.

[WrecklessMEDIC]

Also another question. Say I have 8 characters on one server and legacy maxxed out. If I transfer each char to a diff server so I get max legacy on all 8 servers?

 

Yes, if you move all 8 characters with max legacy to separate servers you will have max legacy on all of those servers.

[theeANGELofDEATH]

Srsly?

 

You sir/madam have been invited on stage to accept on behalf of the United States of America; the Chasers War on Everything Award for the greatest education system in the world.

 

Nice! Just remember every village has an idiot, our village just has more than its share. I am sure you can name a few in yours.

 

...IRT

Cant really blame anyone for the need for more servers in the beginning, including Bioware.. there were a lot more players than expected.. If they had not opened more servers people would have stopped buying/playing the game. The real problem is that they didnt have a solid solution of the cliff dive in population from day one, so that when it started to happen they could have implemented it months ago, instead of waiting until the population of some servers is hovering around zero.

 

I dont know, but they better do it fast as they must be hemorrhaging subs at this point, and June 28(GW2) will be a blood bath.

[Leggomy]

Yes, if you move all 8 characters with max legacy to separate servers you will have max legacy on all of those servers.

 

Not that I dont trust you but where do you keep finding this info? As far I can see they havent said squat about how transfers will work.

[WrecklessMEDIC]

Not that I dont trust you but where do you keep finding this info? As far I can see they havent said squat about how transfers will work.

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Parali

Greetings everyone,

 

We know that our community is concerned about how their Legacy levels will be affected by the upcoming server transfers. Here is what Lead Game Designer Daniel Erickson had to say the most recent Weekly Q&A:

Quote:

RKLimes: I recall a developer post indicating the results of transferring a character with a Legacy from one server onto another where a Legacy also exists, the highest level legacy would simple be applied rather than added. Since higher Legacy level does not necessarily equal greatest number of Legacy unlocks, will any and all unlocks be granted from either Legacies, or only those of the highest?

 

Daniel: Legacies will be merged in the most advantageous possible way for the player. They’re your rewards, you earned them, we don’t want to prevent you from moving them wherever you like. So any unlocks gained by the character you’re moving will come with that character, even if the Legacy they are moving into is a lower level.

We hope this gives you a little insight on the matter. Thank you!

 

That's just one piece of info regarding legacy and transfers.

[daveydiablo]

Can anyone name a game that merged servers in the first year?

 

Can anyone name a game that had 200+ servers in the first year?

 

Lol, I'm not sure if you're agreeing with Sagimore's point or if you think that having 200+ servers in the first year was a good thing. As it obviously wasn't.

[Leggomy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Parali

Greetings everyone,

 

We know that our community is concerned about how their Legacy levels will be affected by the upcoming server transfers. Here is what Lead Game Designer Daniel Erickson had to say the most recent Weekly Q&A:

Quote:

RKLimes: I recall a developer post indicating the results of transferring a character with a Legacy from one server onto another where a Legacy also exists, the highest level legacy would simple be applied rather than added. Since higher Legacy level does not necessarily equal greatest number of Legacy unlocks, will any and all unlocks be granted from either Legacies, or only those of the highest?

 

Daniel: Legacies will be merged in the most advantageous possible way for the player. They’re your rewards, you earned them, we don’t want to prevent you from moving them wherever you like. So any unlocks gained by the character you’re moving will come with that character, even if the Legacy they are moving into is a lower level.

We hope this gives you a little insight on the matter. Thank you!

 

That's just one piece of info regarding legacy and transfers.

 

I have read this and it doesnt cover my question. This is about if you already have legacy on a server you are moving to.

[Celebrus]

The problem lies completely at BW's feet for two important reasons.

 

First of all, BW should have anticipated the launch better. They deliberately capped the servers too low at launch which forced players to wait for queues. While it made some sense since their goal was to allow some time for the first players to get on the server to level up and spread out to eliminate zone congestion as more and more players created chars, they blew it when instead of incrementally raising caps and opening a few servers as needed for overflow, they opened tons of new servers which spread the population out too thinly before they raised the caps. This didn't seem to be a problem with the flood of new players coming in, but it was an accident waiting to happen once the initial onslaught of players started thinning out. Unfortunately, by this time, many players were well into their 20s and 30s (at least) and were not about to start from scratch on a different server since population was sufficient on their server. By opening tons of new servers, they were painting themselves into a PR nightmare corner and probably didn't see it coming (which they should have).

 

Secondly, legacy added a massive complexity to transfers/mergers. It should be pretty obvious to most people that the whole point of legacy is damage control for lack of endgame. Legacy wasn't designed to benefit endgame but clearly herd players into re-rolling over and over. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that. Legacy should have been put on hold until population issues were resolved in the first 3-4 months but BW couldn't wait because tons of players had level 50s with very little endgame and legacy was the carrot on a stick to keep player subbing. Of course it was packaged as a massive feature to enhance the game experience, but it's clear to anyone with half a brain it is really meant to keep players from being stuck with endgame that really doesn't exist.

 

The reason I am discussing the past mistakes is because BW is at the point that they have to figure out how to get themselves out of the painted corner they put themselves in. With no viable endgame any time soon, they had better do something soon or they will continue to see tons of servers become absolute ghost towns. The less people log on due to low population only exacerbates the problem for others on the server still trying to hold on. As many have pointed out, when there's only a few dozen players active during prime time, community becomes non-existent which is the lifeblood of MMOs. BW better deal with this soon or the PR nightmare (which they are trying to avoid) only becomes worse.

 

Well said.

 

It's a shame that so many people are blaming each other for this problem. As if our input during EGA somehow forced BW's hand, putting them in a position that they foresaw, but decided to ignore simply to solve a very short term problem during EGA, when it really has more to do with a lack of foresight and potentially even arrogance on their part.

 

It's actually rather sad.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Celebrus

[WrecklessMEDIC]

I have read this and it doesnt cover my question. This is about if you already have legacy on a server you are moving to.

 

The same applies if you're transferring to a server with no legacy unlocks yet.

[Deewe]

For the little story even before beta, some ol'timers suggested them to:

 

• Launch with too many clusters
  
• Pre-launch: make an official announcement that at some point after launch server merge and faction balance will occur.
  

 

This way they would have looked smart and not failing.

 

They ignored us. See the results.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Deewe