kitsinni Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) If I remember correctly even at WoW beginning 50's would camp the lowest level people they could get to. It is kind of the trademark of a PvP server .. camping lowbies. Pretty much every game before WoW and in early WoW where there were PvP servers top level guys camping people in their teens was the norm, sometimes for hours. To be honest WoW only added that honor thing to appease the casual PvPers that didn't want to fight anyone that wasn't in thier level range. Before that update camping lowbies was the hallmark of a PvP server across the MMO world. Edited May 23, 2012 by kitsinni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthshnooky Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Player killing occurred on a PvP server? Dear Lord!! Use your Fleet pass, spam that there are level 50s ganking lowbies on the planet, watch the fun ensue. Otherwise roll on a PvE server and play safe and sound (btw, i usually roll on PvE servers specifically because I don't like this kind of thing, but I don't try to change PvP servers to meet my preferences; i adapt, you should too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayshadow Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Ok, This is my first thread post. Mostly I have very much enjoyed the game so far. I think it is generally balanced and entertaining. Fun stories exc. I always played on Pvp servers when I played WOW so naturally I played on a PVP server on SWTOR "The Swiftsure"... Everything has been just peachy until. I got to a place today where some 50's where just camping a lvl 30 area. I sat for seriously hours just waiting for therm to leave. Myself and several other players just sat for litterally hours waiting for the 50's to leave but all they did was camp everyone who tried to escape and we could do absolutly NOTHING about it. Seriously developers? How is this supposed to be fun. How is this supposed to be fair that 30's can just get camped and ***** by 50's. We had no shot, could not progress in the game and could just SIT there in a starting area. This was NOT fun nor funny; and was enough for me to just about give the game up after a month. There needs to be some for of honor system or safegaurd against this. Sorry but, biggest flaw in the game by a million miles. Anyone else in the world think this is fair? Seriously, the most frustrating experience I have ever had playing a MMORG.... PvP server working as intended. I fail to understand people who start characters on a server and then complain about the mechanics of that server. Were you unaware that PvP occurs on a PvP server? Th only thing I don't like is on PvE servers were people who aren't flagged are untouchable by people who are, but the unflagged can initiate PvP against the flagged whenever they want. You know, like follow you around and wait til you're lower health after fighting a mob. I think that is BS. Edited May 23, 2012 by Dayshadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicelord Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Man, its a PVP server!! The Empire and Republic are supposed to be at friggin war!! If I could I would camp FP entrances so the other team can't finish them but oh wait all FP entrances are in the fleet. I have no issue with lowbie griefing, making it harder for them to advance in the game. Many of you guys are straight up care bears and don't know the first thing about a pvp server. All this "fair" nonsense - cry me a river. I remebember getting corpse camped on EQ's Sullen Zek server, not for hours but for a full day, bards wiping 80 man raids with trains of mobs, waking up early in order to raid and avoid pvp in the dungeon, posting a group at raid entrances to kill the other team if they tried to disrupt. Thats real ****, this "fair" stuff is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjfett Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 this is why carebears are supposed to stay off the PVP servers. The two sides are at war. red = dead seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherworlder Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 this is why carebears are supposed to stay off the PVP servers. The two sides are at war. red = dead seriously. I love it when griefers use "RP-lite" or "LOLlore" as the reason they're camping people who can't fight back. No, you're not at war with that other person. Killing that other player will not affect the Imperial v. Republic conflict in any way, shape or form (at this point in the game, sadly, nothing will). You killed a lower level player because you knew he couldn't fight back, and it gave you jollies to hinder the RL fun of another human being for however long you chose to camp him. If he had been of the same faction and Red, you probably would have done the same. Read what others have said before replying to a thread. You just admitted you're the kind of person who, when safely anonymous behind a computer, succumbs to the Greater Internet ****wad Theory. Not something to be proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovaos Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I love it when griefers use "RP-lite" or "LOLlore" as the reason they're camping people who can't fight back. No, you're not at war with that other person. Killing that other player will not affect the Imperial v. Republic conflict in any way, shape or form (at this point in the game, sadly, nothing will). You killed a lower level player because you knew he couldn't fight back, and it gave you jollies to hinder the RL fun of another human being for however long you chose to camp him. If he had been of the same faction and Red, you probably would have done the same. Read what others have said before replying to a thread. You just admitted you're the kind of person who, when safely anonymous behind a computer, succumbs to the Greater Internet ****wad Theory. Not something to be proud of. LOL Carebears is a great coin for these types of complainers. Camping lowbies is about the only open world pvp this game has. How can you be so naive to think the sides are not at war? This is expected on a PvP server. The greatest thing about it is it builds up a genuine dislike for the other faction. This is a good thing for a PvP server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherworlder Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 LOL Carebears is a great coin for these types of complainers. Camping lowbies is about the only open world pvp this game has. How can you be so naive to think the sides are not at war? This is expected on a PvP server. The greatest thing about it is it builds up a genuine dislike for the other faction. This is a good thing for a PvP server. If camping lowbies is the only world PvP in a game, that is a sad, sad state of affairs. You are naive if you believe that ganking a lowbie of the opposing faction will alter or in any way effect the highly structured, highly non-interactive 'war' BW has given us. You're also naive if you think that's why gankers kill lowbies---especially given that they would do the same to a lowbie of their own faction 9/10 times, given the opportunity. I don't need to have a genuine dislike of my opponents in order to enjoy PvP. For me, competition is the juice. Not grinding some helpless lowbie's nose into the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolfman Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Read what others have said before replying to a thread. You just admitted you're the kind of person who, when safely anonymous behind a computer, succumbs to the Greater Internet ****wad Theory. Not something to be proud of. Hi All, I always find it interesting when people bring the anonymity of the internet into these arguments. I assume they are suggesting that people who post their views would never do so face to face in a discussion. In my experience, people who will lurk and gank lower levels from home, will quite happily sit at a booth at a convention or LAN party 5 ft from the person they are ganking with no worries whatsover, and will defend their viewpoint vocally when challenged. In fact, doesn't suggesting people wouldn't do this or say this "to your face" imply that you would somehow intimidate them physically hence scaring them into acting the way YOU want rather than the way THEY want? Regardless of that, I always enjoy reading the polarised opinions in these threads as they come up week in week out. The simple fact is that the game mechanics are set up in such a way as to allow this behaviour. Calling for it to be changed (fixed) is something the OP is perfectly entitled to do, however OP you must understand that an alternative DOES exist for you which is the PvE servers. It sounds like you want open world PvP, but want it to somehow be "fair". There is no such animal in MMO's. All fights are going to be "unfair" one way or another. If 3 level 50's in full Warhero gear had appeared on your side and killed the "ganker" would you have considered that fair? justice? No, that would have just been ganking the ganker ( a fun a wonderful pastime BTW). As to the comments about "spoiling a persons gametime", well to be honest I find this a non argument. Player x loves to Warzone but nobody on his server is queing - They are spoiling his gametime Player y loves to win and hates to lose - Anyone who beats her is spoiling her gametime Player z loves to craft and sell gear - Nobody is buying and so is spoiling his gametime. So almost anything anyone does in an MMO is going to spoil somebody elses day in some way Everyone has a personal code of ethics that includes how they behave in MMO's. If a person chooses to derive enjoyment by Ganking lowbies, then that is their personal choice. If they find a game and/or a community that allows this behaviour then they have the absolute right to enjoy themselves. If a person hates ganking and gankers and finds a game and or community that allows this they have many options 1. Don't do it, ignore those that do and just accept that it happens 2. Do something about it within game - Organise Anti-gank squads on their Server, join a good guild, etc. 3. Roll on a PvE Server 4. Choose another game that does not allow this. 5. Petition the game designers to change the game to suit them. Look at this list and ask yourselves which of these options sounds the most selfish? FTR I chose option 2 Regards Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booshido Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Awww man, a place got camped while you leveled? I didn't even get ganked/camped once while leveling on a "full" server. Consider yourself lucky that any kind of PvP happened outside of a WZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscibi Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 What you Could of Done/Do Go to fleet - and say lots of 50s campign blah blah blah Join a guild - Make Friends- Play An MMO-Dont try to Solo an MMO If there was 10 Lvl 30s on tat and only 2-3 50s camping - Game on,Zerg the mofos Level another Alt Craft PvP Drag the 50s to guards What you Did Wait for an hour Came to the forums to Cry about a PVP server. So. Why did you come on the forums again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovaos Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 If camping lowbies is the only world PvP in a game, that is a sad, sad state of affairs. You are naive if you believe that ganking a lowbie of the opposing faction will alter or in any way effect the highly structured, highly non-interactive 'war' BW has given us. You're also naive if you think that's why gankers kill lowbies---especially given that they would do the same to a lowbie of their own faction 9/10 times, given the opportunity. I don't need to have a genuine dislike of my opponents in order to enjoy PvP. For me, competition is the juice. Not grinding some helpless lowbie's nose into the dirt. It is sad it is about the only world pvp we have and I hope it changes, but high levels should always be able to gank lowbies. It won't alter the state of game. If you have ever watched any Star Wars or read any books you would understand. The gank lowbies because it's hilarious. Maybe they were camped when they were leveling and thye are returning the favor. No one needs this to enjoy PvP, but rivalries always make the competition more fun. I really don't this is an issue in this game anyway. I have 2 50's and working on another currently a 40 and have been ganked once by a much higher level. Luckily someone of the same level happened to be near me and we killed him, then some others of my same level came after he called it out in general and we had an amazing 20 minutes of battle going back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovaos Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Awww man, a place got camped while you leveled? I didn't even get ganked/camped once while leveling on a "full" server. Consider yourself lucky that any kind of PvP happened outside of a WZ. +10 and you win the Interwebs! This is clearly not an issue in the current state of the game. I have yet to SEE an imp on my level 40 shadow. Children don't like to be spanked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthiel Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Ok, This is my first thread post. Mostly I have very much enjoyed the game so far. I think it is generally balanced and entertaining. Fun stories exc. I always played on Pvp servers when I played WOW so naturally I played on a PVP server on SWTOR "The Swiftsure"... Everything has been just peachy until. I got to a place today where some 50's where just camping a lvl 30 area. I sat for seriously hours just waiting for therm to leave. Myself and several other players just sat for litterally hours waiting for the 50's to leave but all they did was camp everyone who tried to escape and we could do absolutly NOTHING about it. Seriously developers? How is this supposed to be fun. How is this supposed to be fair that 30's can just get camped and ***** by 50's. We had no shot, could not progress in the game and could just SIT there in a starting area. This was NOT fun nor funny; and was enough for me to just about give the game up after a month. There needs to be some for of honor system or safegaurd against this. Sorry but, biggest flaw in the game by a million miles. Anyone else in the world think this is fair? Seriously, the most frustrating experience I have ever had playing a MMORG.... your on a pvp server suck it up or reroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSeC Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yeah, I sort of agree on the point about ganking lowbies... I was never much into that and I play on a PVP server. I remember being lvl 36 on an alt and being ganked by 3 50s a couple times while I was trying to complete a class mission and be done with the world as it was the last mission on the planet. After I turned 50 I had no desire to return the favor (plenty of chances) as it is kind of lame IMHO I would actually feel bad for it lol. I mean what is the point other than to grief someone... there is no skill involved in that situation. I will say it was fun watching my guildies show up with 7 50s to ROFL stomp them after I let them know what was going on. In the end it is just part of being on a pvp server so you deal with it. To each their own. :-) However.. I now camp the campers. It does nothing more than bring a smile to my face when I see a lowbie come to fleet to say they have a couple 50s hanging out by one of our bases camping them. I get on my ship and show them what a geared lvl 50 jugg is all about ;-) and if needed I would call in some guildies to assist. However that just does not happen much anymore because of the lower pop on my server now :-(. OP, being ganked is part of a PVP server it is sad but it is reality. The gimps doing it have no chance to 1 vs 1 anyone other then lowbies because they lack skill. So because they are lamers they camp lowbies. just know if you get ganked in an MMO the guy ganking probably got beat up that day in RL :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I have been camped as a lowbie for hours when people just get it in their heads they are going to harass me no matter what I do. You have two choices, deal with it or get on your 50 and kill them a few times. To be honest it sounds super stupid to camp lowbies but it is actually pretty funny and fun to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherworlder Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) A very well thought out post. My comments in red. Hi All, I always find it interesting when people bring the anonymity of the internet into these arguments. I assume they are suggesting that people who post their views would never do so face to face in a discussion. In my experience, people who will lurk and gank lower levels from home, will quite happily sit at a booth at a convention or LAN party 5 ft from the person they are ganking with no worries whatsover, and will defend their viewpoint vocally when challenged. The anonymity argument is more complex than the example you've stated. In my argument, it applies to the following person: The same guy sitting around the lunch table with peers at work who will say "bullying is wrong, picking on the weak or disadvantaged is wrong, wasting someone else's time for your own entertainment is wrong", but will then go home and happily camp/gank/grief lowbies in an online game. I'm hard pressed to believe that the Greater Internet ****Wad could sit across the same room from the lowbie he's camping in RL, the guy who just got home from a long day at work and wants to simply knock out a few quests before bed and must now instead log out in disgust, or go sit on the fleet spamming for help or else continue being a victim in a game he plays for fun. Especially if the guy across the room knew it was him doing the camping, and all that implies. Human beings are petty, simplistic animals. We prove it en masse by how we behave when unobserved. We uphold the greater good in public for fear of being ostracized or punished, and we indulge our worst impulses when we can get away with it. There are a few outliers who resist this baser nature; online communities largely prove these people are in the minority in that we respect our fellow players without the need to see them face to face. The only thing that prevents people from indulging in their petty impulses is fear of punishment. Anonymity provides that. In fact, doesn't suggesting people wouldn't do this or say this "to your face" imply that you would somehow intimidate them physically hence scaring them into acting the way YOU want rather than the way THEY want? I never presume I would be capable of intimidating someone I haven't met. In my personal experience, bullies IRL are cruel and petty and fold promptly when challenged or stood up to. Gankers/griefers tend to fall into that same mold, as they usually hide/flee when confronted by other players who are actually capable of killing them. I too used to serve as a griefer-killer back in WoW, and anyone who has done the same can attest that those doing the griefing are rarely looking for a fair fight. Also, people behaving the way THEY want without concern for how it affects others around them is not something to be encouraged, in a game or anywhere else. Regardless of that, I always enjoy reading the polarised opinions in these threads as they come up week in week out. The simple fact is that the game mechanics are set up in such a way as to allow this behaviour. Calling for it to be changed (fixed) is something the OP is perfectly entitled to do, however OP you must understand that an alternative DOES exist for you which is the PvE servers. It sounds like you want open world PvP, but want it to somehow be "fair". There is no such animal in MMO's. All fights are going to be "unfair" one way or another. If 3 level 50's in full Warhero gear had appeared on your side and killed the "ganker" would you have considered that fair? justice? No, that would have just been ganking the ganker ( a fun a wonderful pastime BTW). Misbehaving and punishing those who misbehave are not the same thing. Justice can exist as long as it doesn't go overboard. As to the comments about "spoiling a persons gametime", well to be honest I find this a non argument. Player x loves to Warzone but nobody on his server is queing - They are spoiling his gametime Player y loves to win and hates to lose - Anyone who beats her is spoiling her gametime Player z loves to craft and sell gear - Nobody is buying and so is spoiling his gametime. This argument and your examples are sort of silly, let's be fair. My choice to run a FP over queueing is not a personal, directed attack against another player who is queueing. The fact both activities cannot exist in abundance in this game simultaneously is a sign of a struggling game, not players misbehaving. A high level player who chooses to get his own jollies at the expense of a lowbie who must then abandon or change his own plans for the evening is very much a direct, personal attack against another person. So almost anything anyone does in an MMO is going to spoil somebody elses day in some way Everyone has a personal code of ethics that includes how they behave in MMO's. If a person chooses to derive enjoyment by Ganking lowbies, then that is their personal choice. If they find a game and/or a community that allows this behaviour then they have the absolute right to enjoy themselves. If a person hates ganking and gankers and finds a game and or community that allows this they have many options 1. Don't do it, ignore those that do and just accept that it happens 2. Do something about it within game - Organise Anti-gank squads on their Server, join a good guild, etc. 3. Roll on a PvE Server 4. Choose another game that does not allow this. 5. Petition the game designers to change the game to suit them. Look at this list and ask yourselves which of these options sounds the most selfish? FTR I chose option 2 Regards Wolf Edited May 23, 2012 by otherworlder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaltastic Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This post should answer any and all questions regarding higher levels killing lower levels on a PvP server. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=430851 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foenixz Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 All these posts about the scourge of griefing, how dishonorable and disgusting it is, how something has to be done about it, etc, etc. The whole reason I rolled on a PvP server was to level up and then re-visit the lowbie areas and cause havoc. My goal is to effectively shut down questing for the other side in an area until one of two things happens: 1.) They recruit some high level help who is able to come and kill me 2.) Some one rolls an alt on my side and asks me nicely to stop, possibly offering credits as a bribe at the same time. If there is a point where I will get bored or tired of 1-shotting someone when all they are trying to do is complete a quest I have yet to reach it. My only regret is that there is no way to travel to the opposing factions fleet / capitals and be a nuisance there too... Later Addition: In support of these activities I point to the movies. If they taught us anything they taught us that killing Younglings is a viable tactic. In fact, large portions of the 3rd prequel movie is whiny pre-Vader walking around 1-shotting ppl. Gotta love it as has been said before don't roll on a pvp server if you can't take a few campers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedee Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 To op. Roll on a pve server and s.t.f.u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This post title made me lol for real. If the biggest flaw in the game was camping lowbies, I think there would be a lot less complaining going on. I think they should address the issue of there being no one on the server to camp before they stop them from actually camping. And there is a fix for this, roll on a PVE server as everyone else has noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 PvP servers.... ...giving whiny nerds who got picked on in high school an outlet for revenge since 1989. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 PvP servers.... ...giving whiny nerds who got picked on in high school an outlet for revenge since 1989. loled any way RED=DEAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And here we thought there wasn't a difference between PvP and PvE servers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallison Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Heck with LFG for Flashpoints fix PVP now! Lets be honest without PVP the game loses another 400k sub. Waiting 1hr for a WZ is BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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